Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Wigglerman]

I mean, they already did that. We got a ton of changes to versus that make it both flashier and faster. Online could be better for sure, but outside of balance patches, the game's in a very good spot for just 'playing' it right now.



I feel like people severely oversell the importance of single-player content in fighting games here. You rarely see other FGCs talk about their single player content for a reason.

Well that's because SPC in other fighting games has been garbage for years so people just don't expect it. But games like Tekken, especially Tekken 3 and 4 had robust modes that were SP or MP. People still pine for something like Sub Space and a lot of side stuff Smash had like Race to The Finish, Board The Platforms and that sort of thing. Havingmore bits and bobs is always nice and some people REALLY love those modes. I know I was a lover of the Platform mode in Smash 64 and played it A LOT back in the day and even a substantial amount in recent years when I decide to boot up the N64.

Smash can, has and does lend itself to more single player content simply due to it being Nintendo characters (primarily) and being a platform fighter as opposed to a conventional 2D/2.5D/3D fighter where single player modes are far less...interesting and serve to be more gimmicky than fleshed out and fun things to do (Outside Tekken Force. I LOVE Tekken Force in Tekken 3+4). The usual 'Arcade/Survival' modes seem to be the extent of most conventional fighting games.

And for people who don't have good online, don't have a lot of people local, they rely on single player content to enjoy fighting games of any kind. There are even people who like to play fighting games but only against AI, not against other people. So having SOME single player stuff should be there. Just wish devs would be more creative.

 

[Shroob]

Those also apply to Brawl. Because in spite of how the game is treated as the more casual Smash title, every character in the roster actualy has a lot of depth and techs either semi-universal (like DACUS) or specific to them in Brawl and only Brawl.

Also, saying a person who knows how to play a game has an advantage over someone who doesn't? That shocking news! I never expected it to be true!

Considering there's nothing in the game that teaches you how to actually L-Cancel or Wavedash and one has to go out of their way to learn via external means? Yeah, I'd say so.


Fact is, I got no love for wave dashing, I much prefer the speed of Ultimate, that simple.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Considering there's nothing in the game that teaches you how to actually L-Cancel or Wavedash and one has to go out of their way to learn via external means? Yeah, I'd say so.


Fact is, I got no love for wave dashing, I much prefer the speed of Ultimate, that simple.

I mean I can't even wavedash outside of Nick's more streamlined form and yet I still prefer Melee-style gameplay overall.

 

[Lyncario]

Considering there's nothing in the game that teaches you how to actually L-Cancel or Wavedash and one has to go out of their way to learn via external means? Yeah, I'd say so.


Fact is, I got no love for wave dashing, I much prefer the speed of Ultimate, that simple.

To be fair, that's kinda a classic for fighting games since Street FIghter 2, as combos were made possible because of a bug. That's right, the most basic thing in a fighting game exist because of a glitch. Though I would guess that this is more comparable to someone manipulating rng/ai in a speedrun than anything else.

 

[Shroob]

I mean I can't even wavedash outside of Nick's more streamlined form and yet I still prefer Melee-style gameplay overall.

And again, that's great for you, but it's not for me.

Well that's because SPC in other fighting games has been garbage for years so people just don't expect it. But games like Tekken, especially Tekken 3 and 4 had robust modes that were SP or MP. People still pine for something like Sub Space and a lot of side stuff Smash had like Race to The Finish, Board The Platforms and that sort of thing. Havingmore bits and bobs is always nice and some people REALLY love those modes. I know I was a lover of the Platform mode in Smash 64 and played it A LOT back in the day and even a substantial amount in recent years when I decide to boot up the N64.

Smash can, has and does lend itself to more single player content simply due to it being Nintendo characters (primarily) and being a platform fighter as opposed to a conventional 2D/2.5D/3D fighter where single player modes are far less...interesting and serve to be more gimmicky than fleshed out and fun things to do (Outside Tekken Force. I LOVE Tekken Force in Tekken 3+4). The usual 'Arcade/Survival' modes seem to be the extent of most conventional fighting games.

And for people who don't have good online, don't have a lot of people local, they rely on single player content to enjoy fighting games of any kind. There are even people who like to play fighting games but only against AI, not against other people. So having SOME single player stuff should be there. Just wish devs would be more creative.

I guess to me, I come at it from a completely different perspective in regards to Smash.


I hated Subspace and learned to loathe Melee's Adventure mode after having to run it soo many times, that the charm of it ran out very quick. I definitely understand why people could like content like this, but to me, it's flat out not important, and not something that should be a main focus of dev time when the main thing is, well, versus.

 

[Guynamednelson]

again, that's great for you, but it's not for me

Well, trust me, I have tried very, very, very hard these past four years to move on from Melee. But NASB reawokened the Melee nerd in me. It already helped that I preferred how its speculation was going.

 

[Shroob]

Well, trust me, I have tried very, very, very hard these past four years to move on from Melee. But NASB reawokened the Melee nerd in me. It already helped that I preferred how its speculation was going.

I mean, you don't gotta defend yourself, bro.


This is something I've kinda noticed irt you that whenever someone mentions they're not interested/don't like something you do, you feel the need to defend it.


Like, bro, it's aight, everyone's entitled to their opinion, and no one's telling you you're wrong for liking what you like, ya know?

 

[3BitSaurus]

For single-player content? Sure, it's as casual as you can get.


To actually play it? Better know how to wavedash, L-cancel, etc.


That's the problem. Having a bunch of tech options like this means that a person who actually knows how to do it has a clear advantage over someone who doesn't. If I fought someone right now as is, I'd be destroyed by them as they slide all over the stage and I just try my hardest to not die.


Not saying it's a 'bad' thing to have tech like that, but calling it casual friendly is a funny joke.

I mean... if we're talking competitive Melee, then sure, but otherwise, Melee is absolutely casual-friendly when it comes to FFAs.

I ultimately get it: single player isn't the focus of fighting games, it's versus. But considering the Switch's online is **** and that I live in a third world country, I feel like I ended up with neither, at least until I get the time and safety to invite someone over.

Interestingly enough, browsing the Stage section of Shared Content has been the most fun I've got out of online. Mob Smash wore out quickly to me, Homerun was never really my thing and WoL not only feels like a slog, but the replayability is awful too - both issues that I never felt SSE had.

At least I wish I could rematch Boss Spirits from the Spirit List. That would at least let me try different combinations.

 

[Shroob]

My stance on Single-Player content is just


To me, once you 'do' it, there's no real reason to ever replay it outside of... boredom? Nostalgia?



Like, I feel no strong desire to go do Classic mode anymore now that I've done it with every character unless I seriously want to try a 9.9 on everyone, I've done 100 man Smash with everyone, World of Light is done, I don't rematch Spirits unless they're missing the green checkmark....


And this isn't an Ultimate thing either. Outside of the 3 bonus fighters, I never touched SSE again after I 100%'d it, and for Melee, once I finished the Target Tests and Event Battles... I mean, what else was there to do aside from Versus?



To me, Single-player content loses its luster very fast, because it's a one-and-done kind of deal.


If it's something you enjoy, then great, but I just don't gain any joy from repeating the same content over and over again.

 

[CosmicQuark]

I mean, they already did that. We got a ton of changes to versus that make it both flashier and faster. Online could be better for sure, but outside of balance patches, the game's in a very good spot for just 'playing' it right now.



I feel like people severely oversell the importance of single-player content in fighting games here. You rarely see other FGCs talk about their single player content for a reason.

It's a personal thing. I had far more fun with Smash 64 and Brawl than I have with Ultimate, which is mostly frustration. But Ultimate is still better than both. I can appreciate what they accomplished, and agree with their decision to focus on bringing everyone back rather than single player content. But as someone with no friends, single player is all there is for fun. ;P Different strokes for different blokes.

 

[Idon]

My stance on Single-Player content is just


To me, once you 'do' it, there's no real reason to ever replay it outside of... boredom? Nostalgia?



Like, I feel no strong desire to go do Classic mode anymore now that I've done it with every character unless I seriously want to try a 9.9 on everyone, I've done 100 man Smash with everyone, World of Light is done, I don't rematch Spirits unless they're missing the green checkmark....


And this isn't an Ultimate thing either. Outside of the 3 bonus fighters, I never touched SSE again after I 100%'d it, and for Melee, once I finished the Target Tests and Event Battles... I mean, what else was there to do aside from Versus?



To me, Single-player content loses its luster very fast, because it's a one-and-done kind of deal.


If it's something you enjoy, then great, but I just don't gain any joy from repeating the same content over and over again.

Same.

People clamor about Singleplayer content but blaze through it in a month.
Meanwhile the "core" of the multi-player game lasts 5-7 years and I see next to zero people here suggest improvements for it.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Same.

People clamor about Singleplayer content but blaze through it in a month.
Meanwhile the "core" of the multi-player game lasts 5-7 years and I see next to zero people here suggest improvements for it.

Again, this is an overgeneralization that doesn't apply to everyone. I played Brawl single player for years. But that's because that's all I had. When you don't have friends to come down for matches every now and then, you learn to love repeated single player experiences, however quaint they are compared to games that focus on it. More options is generally better, even if you personally never touch it.

 

[Shroob]

Again, this is an overgeneralization that doesn't apply to everyone. I played Brawl single player for years. But that's because that's all I had. When you don't have friends to come down for matches every now and then, you learn to love repeated single player experiences, however quaint they are compared to games that focus on it. More options is generally better, even if you personally never touch it.

I guess the thing is that this isn't a one shoe size fits all scenario.


Like, I was in the same boat with Melee and put like 300+ hours into it when it was basically all I had, but a large majority of the time, that was playing Versus matches versus the CPUs, and not doing the bonus stuff.



There's no real 'fix' to this issue, since it's more based on personal experiences, which is different from person to person.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Same.

People clamor about Singleplayer content but blaze through it in a month.
Meanwhile the "core" of the multi-player game lasts 5-7 years and I see next to zero people here suggest improvements for it.

I think part of it is because aside from the online, it's hard to pinpoint any specific improvements that would please everyone. Not to mention any suggestion for mechanics improvements wouldn't really matter when we don't know where the series will head next.

So the most we can glean out of that is someone making fan movesets with new mechanics. Maybe the return of modes like Coin Smash or new ones like a King of the Hill-esque mode, like I've seen some suggest.

 

[PSIGuy]

i got more out of Melee-Brawl-4's classic modes because they were at least different every time you played. turns out a set route per character is antithetical to replayable content. things like smash run were also much more interesting to replay.
you can have replayable enjoyable singleplayer content in a game like smash, or even with the assets in ultimate and no additional work. they just... didn't bother with it. no proper boss rush or boss selection screen, no way to easily replay Master Hand's Wild Ride, lack of customizability to set up your own Spirit-esque battles.

 

[Shroob]

i got more out of Melee-Brawl-4's classic modes because they were at least different every time you played. turns out a set route per character is antithetical to replayable content. things like smash run were also much more interesting to replay.
you can have replayable enjoyable singleplayer content in a game like smash, or even with the assets in ultimate and no additional work. they just... didn't bother with it. no proper boss rush or boss selection screen, no way to easily replay Master Hand's Wild Ride, lack of customizability to set up your own Spirit-esque battles.

As much as I want to say I liked Smash Run.... eventually, it just kinda turned into bitterness as I struggled to finish collecting all the custom stuff for the achievement, because for some reason, repeat Mii hats and Custom Moves were thought up as a good thing.


It'll never not be the most squandered mode they've ever made, because actual online with encounterable opponents, and not just everyone in their own instance, would have been amazing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

As much as I want to say I liked Smash Run.... eventually, it just kinda turned into bitterness as I struggled to finish collecting all the custom stuff for the achievement, because for some reason, repeat Mii hats and Custom Moves were thought up as a good thing.


It'll never not be the most squandered mode they've ever made, because actual online with encounterable opponents, and not just everyone in their own instance, would have been amazing.

I honestly think a new and improved Smash Run could have been the best of both worlds. I clicked with it a lot, especially because it's basically Kirby Air Ride's City Trial, but in Smash.

As someone who spent many, many hours on CT, it could provide a lot of enjoyment both in single and multiplayer.

 

[Momotsuki]

Momo's pic of the right-this-moment.

 

[PeridotGX]

My stance on Single-Player content is just


To me, once you 'do' it, there's no real reason to ever replay it outside of... boredom? Nostalgia?



Like, I feel no strong desire to go do Classic mode anymore now that I've done it with every character unless I seriously want to try a 9.9 on everyone, I've done 100 man Smash with everyone, World of Light is done, I don't rematch Spirits unless they're missing the green checkmark....


And this isn't an Ultimate thing either. Outside of the 3 bonus fighters, I never touched SSE again after I 100%'d it, and for Melee, once I finished the Target Tests and Event Battles... I mean, what else was there to do aside from Versus?



To me, Single-player content loses its luster very fast, because it's a one-and-done kind of deal.


If it's something you enjoy, then great, but I just don't gain any joy from repeating the same content over and over again.

I look at those modes (or at least subspace)like one would look at any singleplayer game. Yeah, you really don't touch Subspace much after you beat it, but the same can be said for Kirby Super Star.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Octoling, Elma, Neku and Ahri. Is it biased? Yes. Do I care? No.

 

[Kritter]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Dixie Kong, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman, Bomberman (both because I think he should've been playable, and for the hilarity of having one character have an AT, Mii costume, and playable fighter)

 

[Ivander]

You can have lots of Single Player content in a fighting game and it can be capable of being quite replayable and fun. And no, not just Smash Run from Smash 3DS.
Aside from Smash Bros., my first entry to fighting games was Soulcalibur II. And man, even when I didn't have anyone to play it with, I had a blast with it with how much you could do. Arcade, Time Attack, Team Battle, Survival, the Extra versions and Weapon Master Mode, alongside the Versus Modes and with a slew of unique weapons you could choose for different effects, all with great gameplay.
And then came Soulcalibur 3, where you had so much more to do. Arcade Mode for each main character, with quick-time cutscenes, different paths, different final bosses and different endings, Character Creator, Chronicles of the Sword, where you controlled an army of characters to fight against other armies in a unique single player Story-Mode, the World Competition which was a single player tournament where you fought against pre-rendered foes, and the Soul Arena with the Quick-Play Arcade Mode and the Mission Mode where you fought against foes with different conditions or could face against one of the final bosses without needing to go through Arcade. All with the Versus Modes and returning selectable weapons. And I had such a blast with that game, even if the gameplay wasn't as good as Soulcalibur 2 and had issues.

Those two games are the biggest examples on where a fighting game can have amazing Single-player content while still having great multiplayer. Heck, Soulcalibur 2 is an example where even some small changes can still give it alot of replay value. And it hurt so much when Soulcalibur 4 took away so much of it, and had the worst gameplay of the series. And obviously, Namco giving the Soulcalibur 5 Dev team a year to make it didn't help either(despite the main fighting gameplay being the closest to Soulcalibur II).

 

[Geno Boost]

It kinda hurts me that Sukapon didn’t get a Mii Costume I really wanted it so bad it looks very easy to make I would end up maining Mii brawler just for that

 

[Gengar84]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Zegram Ghart (Rogue Galaxy)
Magus (Chrono Trigger)
Rash/Pimple/Zitz (Battletoads)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)

I don’t expect many people to share any of these choices, especially Zegram.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Scorpion, Brian, Fulgore, and Rabbids.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Bandana Dee, Reimu, Isaac, and Rayman, to be honest.

First two I really want, Isaac is for a friend on Discord who really wants him, and Rayman to make Ubisoft stop being such a weirdo about putting a character in Smash.

 

[Gengar84]

Scorpion, Brian, Fulgore, and Rabbids.

Lol just as soon as I said nobody would share my choices, the very next post did.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Lol just as soon as I said nobody would share my choices, the very next post did.

Fulgore has a decent amount of support, to be fair. XD

 

[N3ON]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

I did the "for da people" picks yesterday. Today I am greedy

 

[SneakyLink]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

If you still need to get some spirits, looks like the next spirit board event will feature those revolving around fisticuffs.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

How many more spirit events are we still getting?

 

[Ivander]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

For the people:

1. Master Chief
2. Bandana Dee
3. Dante
4. Crash Bandicoot

For me:

1. Chosen Undead
2. Professor Layton
3. Ash/Sue/Kireek/Nagisa
4. Dirk the Daring Bill Rizer and Lance Bean

 

[toonito]

Say if you were given the option to fill in those four remaining empty slots for four characters. Who would you guys pick?

I'd pick Amaterasu, Crash Bandicoot, Elma, and Phoenix Wright.

Completely biased: Sol Badguy, Chun-Li, Dante, Zero

Unbiased: Sol Badguy, Crash Bandicoot, Impa, Waluigi

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Dear NonSpecificGuy

Will there be new support threads in the new speculation section, will the old ones be ported, or are we waiting until we get official confirmation like with Ultimate?

With his dearest regards

-@PeridotGX

The latter. Most of all speculation will be centered into a single thread until we get solid confirmation of a next game, just like last time. We expect a decent drop in traffic going forward since there’s no Smash game to look forward to at the moment.

Best regards,
The Man the Myth the Legend
NSG

 

[Shroob]

How many more spirit events are we still getting?

Who knows?


We haven't been given an end date or anything.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

For the people:

1. Master Chief
2. Bandana Dee
3. Dante
4. Crash Bandicoot

For me:

1. Chosen Undead
2. Professor Layton
3. Ash/Sue/Kireek/Nagisa
4. Dirk the Daring Bill Rizer and Lance Bean

Who are Ash, Sue, Kireek and Nagisa?

 

[Shroob]

Who are Ash, Sue, Kireek and Nagisa?

According to a very brief Google search, PSO characters.

 

[Ivander]

Who are Ash, Sue, Kireek and Nagisa?

Default names for 4 of the Phantasy Star Online 2 Avatar characters. Basically, the Male Human Hunter, Female Newman Hunter, Male CAST Hunter and the Female Deuman Braver. Ash, Sue and Kireek also have designs from Phantasy Star Online while Nagisa was named after the Phantasy Star Portable 2 character.

 

[Shroob]

My Mood earlier today

Spoiler

Me a few hours ago

Spoiler

A sucker is born every minute, and in that minute, I was the sucker.