Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

I would argue that, with the possible exception of Ryu Hyabusa, they are probably best known for their NES

I would argue that with Arthur as well, cause the NES GnG game is kinda ****.

 

[Will]

I would argue that with Arthur as well, cause the NES GnG game is kinda ****.

Well, it is an NES game adapting an arcade title. I wouldn't expect any better.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

My thoughts on Sora's inclusion

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Be a badass like sora and shoot a gun from your armpit

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Tbf Phoenix would be a GBA rep, if the character is defined by their first platform, despite later prominence. Like how Villager is an N64 rep.

One potential DS character who all but vanished after deconfirmation, despite being really popular beforehand, and still getting releases, is Ashley. I'd be fine with her inclusion, but it's just strange how her support went from such peaks to seemingly crumbling overnight.

I honestly kinda feel like Ashley has a better shot next game since before Smash 4 the most recent game was Game & Wario, which was... a thing.

Before Ultimate by a few months was Gold, and now Get It Together is doing pretty well for itself so it kinda feels like WarioWare is on an upward swing to me, plus Ashley's still really popular as far as I know. She'll probably surge back up even without it, but especially assuming WarioWare can maintain this momentum going forward, potentially with another game in like 3 or so years?

 

[Gengar84]

I would argue that with Arthur as well, cause the NES GnG game is kinda ****.

Yeah you’re right. I forgot that I mainly played the SNES game. I don’t think I’ve ever actually played the original. I’m not sure how I forgot about the SNES game.

 

[Will]

My thoughts on Sora's inclusion
View attachment 334901

Don't worry, Mickey is on his way. To your house. He wants to celebrate Sora with you personally.

 

[N3ON]

I honestly kinda feel like Ashley has a better shot next game since before Smash 4 the most recent game was Game & Wario, which was... a thing.

Before Ultimate by a few months was Gold, and now Get It Together is doing pretty well for itself so it kinda feels like WarioWare is on an upward swing to me, plus Ashley's still really popular as far as I know. She'll probably surge back up even without it, but especially assuming WarioWare can maintain this momentum going forward, potentially with another game in like 3 or so years?

I mean I understand why she didn't get in this time given we got all of five first-party non-echoes in base, and she wasn't going to outclass any of them. Maybe if base had featured the normal amount of newcomers things would've turned out differently for her.

The attention surrounding her was just sort of night and day after her deconfirmation, while other popular AT characters just seemed to linger a bit more in conversation, so I hope she regains her popularity, because she'd be neat. Like you said, she probably will to some extent, as long as WarioWare keeps getting games. It's just been all quiet on the Ashley front for a while.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I mean I understand why she didn't get in this time given we got all of five first-party non-echoes in base, and she wasn't going to outclass any of them. Maybe if base had featured the normal amount of newcomers things would've turned out differently for her.

The attention surrounding her was just sort of night and day after her deconfirmation, while other popular AT characters just seemed to linger a bit more in conversation, so I hope she regains her popularity, because she'd be neat. Like you said, she probably will to some extent, as long as WarioWare keeps getting games. It's just been all quiet on the Ashley front for a while.

I did think about mentioning the low number of base game newcomers and how I figured Ashley would've been in this game before we ended up with 6 unique newcomers, but I figured it was probably planned that way from the start after Everyone is Here was established in the planning phase lol

I would really like to see Ashley though, yeah. I wouldn't say she's a top want for me, but I do really enjoy WarioWare and the contrast she has with the rest of the cast, plus magic users are cool and you could do quite a bit potentially with Red's shapeshifting abilities, so I'd love to see her as the second Wario character.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Ashley on her own is kinda bland but the cartoon slapstick potential with Red is pretty cool.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Console representation isn’t just fighters, there are more like stages, assist trophies, item, etc. In Nintendo DS case:

Character: Lucario (Pokémon Diamond/Pearl)

Stage: Elektroplankton (Elecktroplankton), Mario Circuit (Mario Kart DS), Spear Pillar (Pokémon Diamond/Pearl), Spirit Train (Zelda Spirit Tracks), Unova League (Pokémon Black/White), Pictochat 1/2 (Pictochat), Colisseum (Fire Emblem Shadow Dragon).

Assist Trophies: Nintendogs (Nintendogs), Barbara (Jam with the Band), Dr Kawashima (Brain Age), Vince (Art Academy)

+ all Gen 4 and 5 Pokémon + music that its a lot.

Big omnission is Rhythm Heaven representation (AT, stage or fighter). The rest is fine. There some ganes like AC New World, NSMB or Tomadochi Collection that they preferred to go for their 3DS sequels/counterparts.

 

[FreeFox]

This is a little pedantic but I always wished that once they finished the fighters they would update this art from the spirit menu to represent more of the DLC roster, I suppose it will forever be stuck on just the Persona 5 spirits as they came first though.

I wish they had updated the opening if you had all the fighters. Just for the cool factor of having all of them appear at some point and truly realize how far the series has gone.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Tbf Phoenix would be a GBA rep, if the character is defined by their first platform, despite later prominence. Like how Villager is an N64 rep.

One potential DS character who all but vanished after deconfirmation, despite being really popular beforehand, and still getting releases, is Ashley. I'd be fine with her inclusion, but it's just strange how her support went from such peaks to seemingly crumbling overnight.

It's unfortunate but most characters lose their momentum heavily after deconfirmations, and rarely do they make a comeback later. Only a very few megaton popular characters are able to be kept in the discussion after deconfirmations, and even then it's a shadow of their former selves.

As for Ashley herself, I think part of the decline in discussion around her (besides the deconfirmation itself) is the uncertainty of the future of the WarioWare series after Game & Wario bombed badly and Gold releasing at the deathbed of the 3DS. Now thankfully, Get it Together released and outsold the prior two entries which showed that the series does in fact have a future. I expect Ashley to be one of the characters talked about in the next game, and hell, I'd say she even has a decent chance of getting in the next game.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I'm spectating a match where it's two Soras against One sephiroth

 

[Megadoomer]

Here's hoping we get a Zelda newcomer in the next game. I've said it before, but it seems bizarre to go more than twenty years without a single new unique Zelda character in Smash, even though Hyrule Warriors and Age of Calamity showed that there's tons of potential out there.

There are plenty of characters that I'd like to see, but a new Zelda character seems long overdue. Impa (whether it's OoT, Skyward Sword, Hyrule Warriors, Age of Calamity, or something new) would be great, but so would Midna, Skull Kid, Ghirahim... Heck, I'd even take Tingle at this point.

 

[Curious Villager]

YeS, we layton fans getnit, Level 5 is rocky rn, we get it, we . Get. It

I mean, shenanigans in the west aside, they seem to be doing fairly well for themselves over in Japan when looking further into what their doing over there.
What with the recent success of the Ni No Kuni mobile game grossing over $100 million in just a week or two and Yo-Kai Watch World and Puni Puni still doing well in Japanese charts to the point one of them is still receiving guest appearances from franchises of other companies like Final Fantasy 7 and most recently Shaman King just the other day.

They may have put the West aside for now (and even then, Layton seems to still be receiving merch and whatnot outside of Japan, implying they haven't given up on the west entirely just yet either, at least not for Layton) they still seem to be doing well in Japan, or at least their mobile games are pretty much still keeping them afloat.

At this point, if their still around in a few years and people are still going around on how their dying and whatnot, I'm probably just going to chalk it up to them being the new "Nintendo is doomed" company since this has been going on since 2018 I believe...

 

[N3ON]

It's unfortunate but most characters lose their momentum heavily after deconfirmations, and rarely do they make a comeback later. Only a very few megaton popular characters are able to be kept in the discussion after deconfirmations, and even then it's a shadow of their former selves.

As for Ashley herself, I think part of the decline in discussion around her (besides the deconfirmation itself) is the uncertainty of the future of the WarioWare series after Game & Wario bombed badly and Gold releasing at the deathbed of the 3DS. Now thankfully, Get it Together released and outsold the prior two entries which showed that the series does in fact have a future. I expect Ashley to be one of the characters talked about in the next game, and hell, I'd say she even has a decent chance of getting in the next game.

Some characters do fall by the wayside over time, and most tumble down the ranks without new titles to keep them afloat, but I actually don't think it's outright rare for comebacks to happen. I mean, Ultimate wasn't Ashley's first deconfirmation. It wasn't even her second.

Think about all the first-party candidates that were popular during Ultimate. Every one that existed prior to... 2016 had been deconfirmed before, even Inkling.

I just wonder how typical first-parties will fare for the next few years, since it's possible the goldfish memory of third-parties and promos boxes them out. If, for instance, we had ended on Waluigi, that would've helped bring some of the other popular first-parties back into view going forward.

As for Ashley specifically, for a hot minute there, she was holding her own popularity/expectation-wise with, like, Geno and Isaac. From June to August 2018 she was blowing up. That's why I raise the conspicuousness of how inconspicuous she has been since. And yeah there was that 3DS game at that time, but no one was paying attention to the 3DS at that point anyway, a year and a half after Switch came out. She really didn't seem encumbered by the state of her franchise.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Sora looks like he is about to cry when he slams against the screen

 

[DanganZilla5]

I've been playing Sora.

I jive with his moveset. He's exactly how I imagined him to fight: Floaty character with magic and an emphasis on aerial combos. Like legit it feels like they straight up grabbed him from KH and dropped him in Smash.

His second jump is super high and in general he's very floaty and has slow fall speed. I'm not quite sure how I feel about that. On one hand it makes it easy for him to chase opponents that are close to the edge of the screen, and I appreciate how once you get one hit in with his aerials, he locks onto the opponent so you can finish the combo with ease. But on the other hand it has left me wide open more often than not.

his magic attacks are quite fun. Firaga is not very useful but Thundaga is a good attack for KOs and Blizzaga has the potential to screw over people that are off stage. What I noticed about Thundaga is that it only combos the opponent if the first thunderbolt touches them and they happen to land under the other thunderbolts. So while it's a good KO option, I find it to be inconsistent.

The stage is nothing special, but it's very pretty. I don't have much to say there. What I really want to discuss is the music. It could just be that I've only played KH 1 so I'm not that familiar with the music, but I'm not a big fan of most of the songs. I don't think any of them are bad, I just can't enjoy them that much on their own. I do really like Hand in Hand and Hollow Bastion, and to an extent Destati, but honestly this is probably one of my least favorite selection of songs out of the DLC.

But overall, I've been having a lot of fun with Sora. He is as much as fun as I was hoping he would be, and he has the best alts out of the DLC characters.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.

Yeah… the enemy kind

I don’t much like the enemy octolings they’re scary

the playable ones from octo expansion however are my babies and I hope they make it next game

Idk, Enemy Octolings are the best ones especially with hairstyle. No idea why it didn't return for Octo Expansion

 

[Rie Sonomura]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.



Idk, Enemy Octolings are the best ones especially with hairstyle. No idea why it didn't return for Octo Expansion

There ARE three empty stage spots still. I think the last one will have to be reserved for certain modes as a button will go there, but they could pull a Small Battlefield and drop two random free stages…

I think the enemy hairdo is done as such to denote that they’re enemies. The OE playable ones have different hairdos (some more “youthful” ones for the girls, and boy hairdos since there are no male enemy Octolings)

 

[N3ON]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.

Yes, we are missing the typical vitriol that comes with the final character not being who people had held out their hopes for.

But Nintendo pulled the galaxy brain move and chose one of the only two or three characters where people can't really argue that, even if you don't care for Sora, it's still going out on a good choice and a high note. Can't really gripe too much about getting the number one character on the ballot worldwide.

 

[Momotsuki]

Having taken him for a test drive, Sora's a pretty fun character. He doesn't really "click" with me the way, say, Steve or Kazuya do, but nonetheless I can totally see the appeal, and I think he brings a lot to the table as such a floaty big-stick character. They balanced him very well, too. I never had any doubts regarding that but I know some people did.

 

[BlondeLombax]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.

Honestly, I think that's just the ennui of the game finally wrapping up development kicking in. There's still a lot of stuff people wanted to see, and it's gonna be a tricky wait for the next game to see how much comes in, and how much comes back. It's still got a sensation of satisfaction to me, though, knowing that it's all done and over with.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Some characters do fall by the wayside over time, and most tumble down the ranks without new titles to keep them afloat, but I actually don't think it's outright rare for comebacks to happen. I mean, Ultimate wasn't Ashley's first deconfirmation. It wasn't even her second.

Think about all the first-party candidates that were popular during Ultimate. Every one that existed prior to... 2016 had been deconfirmed before, even Inkling.

I just wonder how typical first-parties will fare for the next few years, since it's possible the goldfish memory of third-parties and promos boxes them out. If, for instance, we had ended on Waluigi, that would've helped bring some of the other popular first-parties back into view going forward.

As for Ashley specifically, for a hot minute there, she was holding her own popularity/expectation-wise with, like, Geno and Isaac. From June to August 2018 she was blowing up. That's why I raise the conspicuousness of how inconspicuous she has been since. And yeah there was that 3DS game at that time, but no one was paying attention to the 3DS at that point anyway, a year and a half after Switch came out. She really didn't seem encumbered by the state of her franchise.

Fwiw I think by the time the next Smash game arrives the community won't be that laser focused on only third parties and promos for the base game....at least I hope they won't since it's quite obvious that first parties are gonna be the majority of newcomers for the base game. Also yeah you're right that this isn't Ashley's first deconfirmation since she's been a speculated character since Brawl, but I do think deconfirmations kill character discussion hard, especially when it comes to ATs. Not to mention that by the time DLC speculation kicked around everyone was going full eyes on third parties, which hurt Ashley even further.

Out of all the characters that got AT'd Waluigi got discussed the most and he's like easily the most popular first party request at the moment, but even then Waluigi didn't get discussed that much when compared to third parties in general and he was often met with detraction that AT upgrades weren't gonna happen.

I think when the next game gets announced and base game speculation kicks off we'll see people clamor for Ashley again. She's still by far the most popular WarioWare character (not including Wario himself obviously) and it seems the series is doing well again (Get It Together had the highest launch month sales for a WarioWare title since WarioWare Smooth Moves according to US NPD) so I'm not that worried about her outlook.

 

[Shroob]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.



Idk, Enemy Octolings are the best ones especially with hairstyle. No idea why it didn't return for Octo Expansion

Not really, no.


They ended on a high note. The thing that's missing is people bemoaning the character choice, which is a good thing.


The feeling we're experiencing is finality. It's been a long, crazy 3 years, and now it's over.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This is an actual game (part 2):

Spoiler

It's been a fun ride. I do agree that this was the perfect ending, even though the journey there was nowhere near perfect. Still some missing elements even to the characters in the game, not to mention a few key missing players. But more importantly, while I love Smash for the celebration of gaming, the game itself--leaves a lot to be desired. It's hard to really get into the actual game, outside of gushing about it, without a good single player mode and ways to experience characters in other aspects of gaming, not just fighting. And the multiplayer itself, particularly online, can either be endlessly frustrating or just meh. But even despite those blemishes, Ultimate is such an impossibility, and while I wish there were more, it ended perfectly, and I couldn't ask for anything more.

 

[Guynamednelson]

the game itself--leaves a lot to be desired. It's hard to really get into the actual game, outside of gushing about it, without a good single player mode and ways to experience characters in other aspects of gaming, not just fighting. And the multiplayer itself, particularly online, can either be endlessly frustrating or just meh

Well, they're gonna have to compensate as much as possible for how impossible bringing everyone back+adding a decent amount of newcomers would be, and one way to do that is to focus on a crowd whose focus is the playing of the game, and not just wanting a list of video game franchises.

 

[Shroob]

Well, they're gonna have to compensate as much as possible for how impossible bringing everyone back+adding a decent amount of newcomers would be, and one way to do that is to focus on a crowd whose focus is the playing of the game, and not just wanting a list of video game franchises.

I mean, they already did that. We got a ton of changes to versus that make it both flashier and faster. Online could be better for sure, but outside of balance patches, the game's in a very good spot for just 'playing' it right now.



I feel like people severely oversell the importance of single-player content in fighting games here. You rarely see other FGCs talk about their single player content for a reason.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, they already did that. We got a ton of changes to versus that make it both flashier and faster. Online could be better for sure, but outside of balance patches, the game's in a very good spot for just 'playing' it right now

Even with their attempts to cater to competitive players, hints of Brawl-era Sakurai still show up with things like the input buffer and trying to fall through platforms. At least that side of Sakurai had to STFU when making Kazuya.

 

[PeridotGX]

Dear NonSpecificGuy

Will there be new support threads in the new speculation section, will the old ones be ported, or are we waiting until we get official confirmation like with Ultimate?

With his dearest regards

-@PeridotGX

 

[Shroob]

Even with their attempts to cater to competitive players, hints of Brawl-era Sakurai still show up with things like the input buffer and trying to fall through platforms. At least that side of Sakurai had to STFU when making Kazuya.

I guess I'm just not competitive enough, but I've never noticed the input buffer. Game's always seemed perfectly responsive to me.


The platform thing I agree on from my own experience, but it's not a deal breaker by any stretch.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

With Sora joining the roster. Ultimate has finally come to an end.

Ngl, does anyone else feel that the ending of this "ride" feels flat and empty. That it doesn't feel conclusive and that something is missing despite Sora's grand inclusion?

I don't think its character related either.

I mean, there are certainly missing features or small QoL changes I wish they'd have made, but like come on IT'S SORA. THE LITERAL BALLOT WINNER.

I don't think you can get any more conclusive than fulfilling what is literally the most popular character request.

 

[Sucumbio]

Until I get into the new thread...

 

[Guynamednelson]

I guess I'm just not competitive enough, but I've never noticed the input buffer. Game's always seemed perfectly responsive to me.


The platform thing I agree on from my own experience, but it's not a deal breaker by any stretch.

I think I'm just spoiled by Nick Brawl's desire to NOT avoid Melee gameplay quirks, as well as its fanbase's higher focus on more obscure first-parties like Vendetta from Making Fiends even with all the Jimmy and Timmy demand.

 

[Shroob]

I think I'm just spoiled by Nick Brawl's desire to NOT avoid Melee gameplay quirks, as well as its fanbase's higher focus on more obscure first-parties like Vendetta from Making Fiends even with all the Jimmy and Timmy demand.

And that's great for you.


As much as I respect Melee as a game and its legacy, its hands down one of my least favorite entries in the series to play just due to its high barrier to entry. I much prefer the feeling of Ultimate to it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

And that's great for you.


As much as I respect Melee as a game and its legacy, its hands down one of my least favorite entries in the series to play just due to its high barrier to entry. I much prefer the feeling of Ultimate to it.

Really, I think "Melee has a high barrier of entry" is a half-truth. It was perfectly accessible to casuals, they just wanted to gravitate towards a bigger roster, so all that remains is those who know wavedashing isn't just an instant win button.

 

[Shroob]

Really, I think "Melee has a high barrier of entry" is a half-truth. It was perfectly accessible to casuals, they just wanted to gravitate towards a bigger roster, so all that remains is those who know wavedashing isn't just an instant win button.

For single-player content? Sure, it's as casual as you can get.


To actually play it? Better know how to wavedash, L-cancel, etc.


That's the problem. Having a bunch of tech options like this means that a person who actually knows how to do it has a clear advantage over someone who doesn't. If I fought someone right now as is, I'd be destroyed by them as they slide all over the stage and I just try my hardest to not die.


Not saying it's a 'bad' thing to have tech like that, but calling it casual friendly is a funny joke.

 

[Guynamednelson]

but calling it casual friendly is a funny joke.

WAS perfectly accessible to casuals. But no one who plays Melee anymore bothers with items or hazards besides the hazard of glitching through the floor in Pokemon Stadium.

 

[Lyncario]

For single-player content? Sure, it's as casual as you can get.


To actually play it? Better know how to wavedash, L-cancel, etc.


That's the problem. Having a bunch of tech options like this means that a person who actually knows how to do it has a clear advantage over someone who doesn't. If I fought someone right now as is, I'd be destroyed by them as they slide all over the stage and I just try my hardest to not die.


Not saying it's a 'bad' thing to have tech like that, but calling it casual friendly is a funny joke.

Those also apply to Brawl. Because in spite of how the game is treated as the more casual Smash title, every character in the roster actualy has a lot of depth and techs either semi-universal (like DACUS) or specific to them in Brawl and only Brawl.

Also, saying a person who knows how to play a game has an advantage over someone who doesn't? That shocking news! I never expected it to be true!