Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Will]

You know what I would like next Smash? A lot more competitively viable stages.

I don't know about you guys but I'm tired of always being on PS2.

 

[DarthEnderX]

For you maybe. Wario Land 3 is one of my favorite games of all time but I'm not paying 50 dollars for it. Clearly you would, and that's a you thing.

Yeah...Wario Land 3 is what I'd pay $50 for. And not any of the, like, 50 other amazing games on the console. The GBA was pretty much SNES 2. With the amazing library that suggests.

Meanwhile, the Dreamcast has, like, 6 good games. Gamecube maybe double that.

I'd much sooner spend my $50 on the former than the latter.

 

[Will]

Yeah...Wario Land 3 is what I'd pay $50 for. And not any of the, like, 50 other amazing games on the console. The GBA was pretty much SNES 2. With the amazing library that suggests.

Meanwhile, the Dreamcast has, like, 6 good games. Gamecube maybe double that.

What's your list of handheld titles you'll pay 50 dollars for? I want to see it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What's your list of handheld titles you'll pay 50 dollars for? I want to see it.

Ugh...don't give me homework...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think GBA, Dreamcast, & Gamecube all have great libraries.

Thankfully Nintendo will help us avoid any flamewars about them by not putting any of them on their online service anyway.

 

[N3ON]

Yeah...Wario Land 3 is what I'd pay $50 for. And not any of the, like, 50 other amazing games on the console. The GBA was pretty much SNES 2. With the amazing library that suggests.

Meanwhile, the Dreamcast has, like, 6 good games. Gamecube maybe double that.

I'd much sooner spend my $50 on the former than the latter.

Y'know the craziest part is there's never actually been a good game that uses a z-axis

 

[Will]

Ugh...don't give me homework...

Since you didn't choose, you now get The New Adventures of Mary-Kate & Ashley for $50. Fork it over.

I think GBA, Dreamcast, & Gamecube all have great libraries.

Thankfully Nintendo will help us avoid any flamewars about them by not putting any of them on their online service at all.

Best take on this subject ngl

 

[Firox]

You know what I would like next Smash? A lot more competitively viable stages.

I don't know about you guys but I'm tired of always being on PS2.

Unfortunately, a lot of this issue has to due to the attitude of most competitive players are their unwillingness to put much variation into what constitutes a "competitively viable" stage. For the most part, a "competitive" stage seems to be exclusive to flat, battlefield/FD length stages that feature few if any standard platforms, usually consisting of some combination of the triangular configuration or the Kalos-style slightly off-stage platforms. I'm not really sure what else the devs can make besides reskins of pre-existing comp stages that people would accept. Even without any stage hazards, I'm not sure what they could give us that would be both fresh and not give some sort of unfair advantage to certain characters. Sakurai finally gave us another potentially competitive stage with Northern Cavern but then we started to see a bunch of people whine about the background being too distracting, so yeah, the problem goes a little beyond the devs at this point. Hopefully Hollow Bastion will be viewed as a little less distracting....

 

[Will]

Unfortunately, a lot of this issue has to due to the attitude of most competitive players are their unwillingness to put much variation into what constitutes a "competitively viable" stage. For the most part, a "competitive" stage seems to be exclusive to flat, battlefield/FD length stages that feature few if any standard platforms, usually consisting of some combination of the triangular configuration or the Kalos-style slightly off-stage platforms. I'm not really sure what else the devs can make besides reskins of pre-existing comp stages that people would accept. Even without any stage hazards, I'm not sure what they could give us that would be both fresh and not give some sort of unfair advantage to certain characters. Sakurai finally gave us another potentially competitive stage with Northern Cavern but then we started to see a bunch of people whine about the background being too distracting, so yeah, the problem goes a little beyond the devs at this point.

That's ****ing bull**** too. I also hate that you can't also choose stages that are similar to other viable stages but cannot just because they're too similar to others. So what if I want to play Unova League instead of PS2, what's the problem with that??? It's even got a different bottom half and doesn't have a stalk, which can be nichely used by some characters btw.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Since you didn't choose, you now get The New Adventures of Mary-Kate & Ashley for $50. Fork it over.

Okay FINE!

Final Fantasy DoS, 4, 5, 6, Tactics Advance
Castlevania CotM, HoD, AoS
Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission
Pokemon R/S, FR/LG
Zelda Minish Cap
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Mega Man Zero 1-4
Mega Man & Bass
Kirby AM, NiD
F-Zero
Super Mario Advance 1-4
Mario Kart SC
Mario & Luigi SS
Wario Land 3, 4
Gunstar Heroes
Astro Boy
Drill Dozer
Ninja Five-0

Y'know the craziest part is there's never actually been a good game that uses a z-axis

Well...Mario Kart.

 

[Sucumbio]

My biggest fear though is even if they add more systems how likely are they to add games worth a f? I mean... Look at nes. So much crap! Snes isn't much better.... Yeah there's some good titles but the ratio of good ones vs shovel ware is 1:3 maybe 1:2 at best. I'd actually prefer them have a library selector and for whatever price you can select the games you want from the total library to date starting from wii vc... And then pay in increments for additional slots.

Like Magician Lord! I loved that game as a kid and bought it for Wii vc the moment I saw it. Since I've already bought it, it'd be great to be able to play it on the switch even if I have to unlock 5 SNK games for 15 dollars or something.

I unno..... Anything would've been better than the current NSO.

And for this price God they need to at least integrate proper multi-player servers instead of relying so heavily on p2p networking.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Edit: Double post

 

[Sucumbio]

Okay FINE!

Final Fantasy DoS, 4, 5, 6, Tactics Advance
Castlevania CotM, HoD, AoS
Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission
Pokemon R/S, FR/LG
Zelda Minish Cap
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Mega Man Zero 1-4
Mega Man & Bass
Kirby AM, NiD
F-Zero
Super Mario Advance 1-4
Mario Kart SC
Mario & Luigi SS
Wario Land 3, 4
Gunstar Heroes
Astro Boy
Drill Dozer
Ninja Five-0

I'd play the f outta all these. That's a great list.

You seeing this Nintendo? This guy gets it.

 

[Geno Boost]

The fact that Nintendo newcomers and 3rd party newcomers are close in numbers is pretty cool I think 3rd party newcomers could surpass Nintendo newcomers in the next smash game since the 3rd party demands has increased a lot including the companies.
Nintendo newcomers:
3rd party newcomers:

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Can we not flame each other for taste in gaming?

I thought we were better than this.

 

[Will]

Okay FINE!

Final Fantasy DoS, 4, 5, 6, Tactics Advance
Castlevania CotM, HoD, AoS
Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission
Pokemon R/S, FR/LG
Zelda Minish Cap
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Mega Man Zero 1-4
Mega Man & Bass
Kirby AM, NiD
F-Zero
Super Mario Advance 1-4
Mario Kart SC
Mario & Luigi SS
Wario Land 3, 4
Gunstar Heroes
Astro Boy
Drill Dozer
Ninja Five-0

And then they proceed to add maybe six games off of your list and replace the rest with games you've never heard of before from different developers.



Yes... I can see it now. At least Natsume made Harvest Moon GBA, that's not bad.

 

[ForsakenM]

I don't intend to get it, if that's what you mean.

N64 is, like, one of the worst Nintendo generations. It is NOT the way to try and sell a 150% price hike.

One of the worst seems like a bit much. Pretty sure Virtual Boy or WiiU are overall much worse. Hell, with all the complaints that NES Online isn't worth basically any money, I would argue that how dated those games are seen as less worthwhile nowadays than the plethora of games on newer consoles. I get that we COULD have had CD ROM storage a generation earlier, but implying it was one of the worst? Yikes.

Okay FINE!

Final Fantasy DoS, 4, 5, 6, Tactics Advance
Castlevania CotM, HoD, AoS
Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission
Pokemon R/S, FR/LG
Zelda Minish Cap
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Mega Man Zero 1-4
Mega Man & Bass
Kirby AM, NiD
F-Zero
Super Mario Advance 1-4
Mario Kart SC
Mario & Luigi SS
Wario Land 3, 4
Gunstar Heroes
Astro Boy
Drill Dozer
Ninja Five-0

Well...Mario Kart.

Do I get exiled for just wanting Emerald and Chain of Memories?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Okay FINE!

Final Fantasy DoS, 4, 5, 6, Tactics Advance
Castlevania CotM, HoD, AoS
Metroid Fusion, Zero Mission
Pokemon R/S, FR/LG
Zelda Minish Cap
Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts
Street Fighter Alpha 3
Mega Man Zero 1-4
Mega Man & Bass
Kirby AM, NiD
F-Zero
Super Mario Advance 1-4
Mario Kart SC
Mario & Luigi SS
Wario Land 3, 4
Gunstar Heroes
Astro Boy
Drill Dozer
Ninja Five-0

Not to mention the DKC trilogy ports, the Sonic Advance trilogy, Bomberman Tournament, the first Ace Attorney, & Final Fight One.

Tangentially related, but man the GBA would have been a solid system for Konami do have done remakes for the first two Metal Gear games on.

 

[Will]

Tangentially related, but man the GBA would have been a solid system for Konami do have done remakes for the first two Metal Gear games on.

There's also Ghost Babel, the unsung noncanon portable MG experience.

 

[ForsakenM]

Oh, I also want Zatch Bell: Electric Arena.

Give me that and Emerald and CoM and I'd buy it.

 

[Will]

Can we not flame each other for taste in gaming?

I thought we were better than this.

Who's flaming who exactly? We all agree that we have different leeways and are differently persuaded by different consoles based on pricepoint.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's also Ghost Babel, the unsung noncanon portable MG experience.

View attachment 334494

There's a cool alternate universe out there where the franchise had a whole series of out there non-canon portable titles (that weren't just card games like Metal Gear Acid).

 

[Will]

There's a cool alternate universe out there where the franchise had a whole series of out there non-canon portable titles (that weren't just card games like Metal Gear Acid).

RE Gaiden was also pretty sick and showed how GB could handle shooters. Will any of these two games show up in this hypothetical GB NSO? no lol

 

[Ivander]

Meanwhile, the Dreamcast has, like, 6 good games. Gamecube maybe double that.

Are we not counting ports or games similar/improved from the Gamecube games? Or did I just have alot of Gamecube games in general? Cause I can name three times that amount for games I want for a Gamecube NSO, not counting Smash Bros. Melee, Animal Crossing or Ports found on newer systems or Windows/Steam, like:

1. Lost Kingdoms
2. Lost Kingdoms 2
3. Custom Robo
4. Kirby Air Ride
5. Viewtiful Joe
6. Viewtiful Joe 2
7. Fire Emblem Path of Radiance
8. Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes
9. Eternal Darkness
10. 1080 Avalanche
11. Geist
12. Pokemon Colosseam
13. Pokemon XD Gale of Darkness
14. Chibi-Robo
15. Mario Party 4
16. Mario Party 6
17. Mario Kart Double Dash
18. Mario Power Tennis
19. Mario Golf Toadstool Tour
20. Mario Superstar Baseball
21. Gotcha Force
22. Star Wars Rogue Squadron 2
23. Star Wars Rogue Squadron 3
24. Wave Race Blue Storm
25. Skies of Arcadia Legends
26. Wario World
27. F-Zero GX
28. Metal Arms
29. Baten Kaitos
30. Baten Kaitos Origins
31. Legend of Zelda Four Swords Adventure
32. Bomberman Generation
33. Star Fox Assault
34. Soulcalibur 2(yes, it came to PS3/Xbox 360, but neither had Link)
35. Paper Mario The Thousand Year Door
36. Megaman Network Transmission

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I honestly don’t get the decision to put in Sega Genesis games. No disrespect at all to the Genesis, but like all of the shown games are already on Switch, they weren’t highly requested, Nintendo has to pay more to acquire them, and the Gameboy Line is right there.
Or hell, just put on N64 games standalone for a reduced price. The whole issue is solved just like that.

Do literally anything other than this and the backlash would be mitigated.

At least with Gamecube you could argue that the games are big enough that tossing them on the service is too much content for the price.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I always viewed the Gamecube as the inversion of N64 in a lot of ways; much better third party line up, but with first party releases that (for me) weren't as strong as the ones on its predecessor, Smash and (to a lesser extent) Paper Mario excepted.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I honestly don’t get the decision to put in Sega Genesis games. No disrespect at all to the Genesis, but like all of the shown games are already on Switch, they weren’t highly requested, Nintendo has to pay more to acquire them, and the Gameboy Line is right there.
Or hell, just put on N64 games stabdalone for a reduced price. The whole issue is solved just like that.

Do literally anything other than this and the backlash would be mitigated.

At least with Gamecube you could argue that the games are big enough that tossing them on the service is too much content for the price.

Genesis is a nice way to diversify the lineup.

The issue is, the lineup is still missing some mainstays.

 

[SKX31]

At the end of the day they need to offer more than isn't contingent on already owning something else, because for someone who hypothetically doesn't own many or any of the game DLC being offered, it's still not a good deal. It's also just renting something which should be permanently owned. They can start with a much more comprehensive back catalogue, but even with adding Gamecube and GBA, that price is still a big ask.

For $50, given what they've priced at $20, and given what the competitors offer, I think you'd not only have to offer those other two systems as well, but take a page from the other two and offer a rotation of free games monthly. Now those can be rented, because they're full free games, but they really need to sweeten the deal from the ridiculous offer of old games and DLC rental for more than double base price that it is now.

Feel that they counted on so many people owning New Horizons and being interested in the DLC as a bonus. That or the DLC tacked on top of the expansion pack tempting more people to buy New Horizons... and:

I mean, to be (slighty) fair New Horizon stands at 33 million copies - 2nd only behind MK8DX. But not only does it look like a major mis-step from what you said, but also because the NH DLC can be bought separately ($24.99, five dollars cheaper) while the N64 / Genesis games can't. Yes, one can see this as Nintendo covering both bases if one is charitable... But there are two confounding factors here:

A) For people that look at the DLC primarily, is N64 / Genesis games really worth the extra $5 (and $30 in subsuquent years)? Most of them might just take the $25 option.
B) I really dunno if the expansion pack will entice people to buy AC. Those 33 million are more than a 1/3 of Switch's install base already, and Nintendo's effectively asking the other 2/3rds for $60 in order to get full value out of the expansion. The $85 for NH and its DLC may look preferable for many to the implied $90+ for the expansion pass.

So yeah, I have to wonder if this was entirely thought through. Full games would've gone over a lot better by comparision due to not needing to pay out another $60 (and to confound this Nintendo does not believe in sales - as in the temporary price reductions - either).

Again, I'll reiterate that I wouldn't be surprised if the expansion pass does decently if only because $50 a year is in the same ballpark as Microsoft's and Sony's established offerings and there's probably a segment of people who would view this favorably... but I can't imagine it doing amazing either because the extra $30 comes with so many proverbial holes that a Swiss Cheese would look positively solid in comparision.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah...Wario Land 3 is what I'd pay $50 for. And not any of the, like, 50 other amazing games on the console. The GBA was pretty much SNES 2. With the amazing library that suggests.

Meanwhile, the Dreamcast has, like, 6 good games. Gamecube maybe double that.

I'd much sooner spend my $50 on the former than the latter.

Are you implying Illbleed ISN'T a good game?

(I doubt anybody here knows what I'm talking about...)

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

There's also the odd demographic issue. A lot of Animal Crossing fans are of the more casual variety and aren't necessarily chomping at the bit to play 20 year old titles. Many of them are far more inclined to buy the Happy Home Paradise DLC to have it permanently and never give the Expansion Pack a second thought.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I do find it interesting that before NES online and the like, people desperately wanted a Netflix like service for old Nintendo games.

Now we hate it.

What happened?

 

[Will]

I do find it interesting that before NES online and the like, people desperately wanted a Netflix like service for old Nintendo games.

Now we hate it.

What happened?

It was executed poorly.

 

[Shroob]

I do find it interesting that before NES online and the like, people desperately wanted a Netflix like service for old Nintendo games.

Now we hate it.

What happened?

Not a lot of the wanted titles

The online itself is butts

 

[chocolatejr9]

I do find it interesting that before NES online and the like, people desperately wanted a Netflix like service for old Nintendo games.

Now we hate it.

What happened?

We realised Hulu was better.

 

[Will]

We realised Hulu was better.

Hulu is being drained by other companies buying out what was already on the platform though. I'm not really that into their exclusives tbh.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I do find it interesting that before NES online and the like, people desperately wanted a Netflix like service for old Nintendo games.

Now we hate it.

What happened?

We wanted Netflix from 10 years ago, not Netflix in a year where every major studio has their own service.

I guess the gaming equivalent would be things like the Mega Man and Castlevania collections.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Not a lot of the wanted titles

The online itself is butts

And all of that for a bonkers price that even the most diehard fan would struggle to defend.

 

[PSIGuy]

Remember how everyone dunked on their initial online plans so hard they backtracked from "ONE WHOLE NES/SNES GAME A MONTH" to "actually you have access to a library"? And it still wasn't very good even after that?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

So I realized something earlier.

I believe it was said at some point that license holders have to approve of the actions of the game happening to their respective characters.

One of those things is Snake’s grabs and pummel.

Disney had to approve of Solid Snake choking Sora out (and then combo into up tilt) and Kazuya’s special throw where Sora would be Sparta kicked into oblivion.

Incredible.

 

[Will]

Disney had to approve of Solid Snake choking Sora out (and then combo into up tilt) and Kazuya’s special throw where Sora would be Sparta kicked into oblivion.

Incredible.

Has Sora really not experienced something like that? I was expecting him to go through some brutal **** for a Square game ngl