Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DarthEnderX]

We begin speculating what Smash 6 newcomers will be!

I really hope we can.

I'm legit bothered by the notion that we won't have a dedicated speculation/wishlist thread until Smash 6 gets announced...

 

[Theguy123]

Now with FP11 being out we’re probably not as far away as people make it seem from seeing the next smash. The wait from wii u smash to ultimate was 2 years. Assuming the next smash is currently in planning phase and they plan to build off ultimate but just cut the roaster and stages then we could get the next smash in 2/3 years realistically

 

[Warumian]

Now with FP11 being out we’re probably not as far away as people make it seem from seeing the next smash. The wait from wii u smash to ultimate was 2 years. Assuming the next smash is currently in planning phase and they plan to build off ultimate but just cut the roaster and stages then we could get the next smash in 2/3 years realistically

Probably on the switch's successor.

 

[PeridotGX]

Now with FP11 being out we’re probably not as far away as people make it seem from seeing the next smash. The wait from wii u smash to ultimate was 2 years. Assuming the next smash is currently in planning phase and they plan to build off ultimate but just cut the roaster and stages then we could get the next smash in 2/3 years realistically

Sakurai seems to want to move on from Smash, at least temporarily. Let's be generous and say he spends three years making a non-smash game, and then another three making a Smash. That's six years, and development for either game could easily take longer. The only way we get a game before that is if he gets someone else to direct the game, which I... don't know what to think about.

 

[SharkLord]

So uhmmm....where do we go from here?

General consensus seems to be split between moving on from the Boards entirely or just hanging around the social thread from time to time and vibing. Who knows, maybe I'll start plugging my fully original concepts over there as a sort of successor to the moveset ideas and essays I once did.

Let's be generous and say he spends three years making a non-smash game,

Kid Icarus: Downfalling

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Hmm......

Donald and Goofy are looking kinda different...#SmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/66dibsfriW

— Seto 🐟 (@SetiSpaghetti) October 5, 2021

 

[KillerCage]

Here is my tier list for the Ultimate newcomers based on their trailers and how offen I use them:
S Tier: These are the characters who had amazing trailers imo and and play with regularly
A Tier: These are the characters who had great reveals (again imo) and play with on occasion
B Tier: These are the characters (and Echoes) who had good reveals but aren't usually used (Sora's status could change)
C Tier: These are the characters who had okay trailers but are rarely played
F Tier: These two had AWFUL trailers and I never use them. EVER!!!

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Congrats everyone for an eventful speculation period and a great game period.

So uhmmm....where do we go from here?

Talk about how great of an achievement this game was because we're probably never gonna get such a crossover this massive ever again (Especially when Cloud almost didn't get in). Think also back at all the times we speculated and what the best moments were, the grinch leak days notably. Thoughts on all the newcomers as well.

 

[7NATOR]

So I guess now that we Know the Entire Roster, I guess I can perhaps try to Classify main reasons certain characters got in. Do you agree with the Reasonings below? (also you can ignore the Bottom Explanation if you don't feel like reading)

Represent Nintendo Library

-Inkling
-Isabelle
-Incineroar
-Byleth (Specifically game audience playing right now)
-Min Min
-Pyra/Mythra

Ballot/Fan Requests

-Everyone is Here
-Daisy
-Ridley
-Simon
-Richter
-Chrom
-Dark Samus
-K.Rool
-Banjo
-Sora (Ballot Winner)

Nintendo branching out to Big, New Audiences

-Hero
-Steve
-Kazuya

Sakurai thought it was a Cool Idea

-Ken
-Plant
-Joker
-Terry

I'm unsure

-Sephiroth

I know I'm gonna get flak for Listing Joker and Terry as just "Sakurai's Cool Idea", so let me just say this. Nintendo did pick these characters, but that doesn't mean they were the ones to first bring up the idea. At the end of the Day Nintendo saw them worth adding cause they had the Merits, but I don't know if they were priority like Dragon Quest, Minecraft, and Tekken were

In the Case of Sephiroth, I unsure where to Place him. Considering how the Roster looks, I'm starting to think one of the Main reasons he was given such Priority was due to the Remake Prominence

Well that and that he is Sephiroth of course, But Part of me is thinking. I'm sure Sephiroth was in talks around the Time the Project Plan was in creation, perhaps along with the Other Square-related Newcomers Hero and Sora. I think Square might have had it planned for Sephiroth to appear in Smash Ultimate around the Time of FF7's Release year to Capitalize off the Hype. FF7 Remake adds a really good amount of Current relevancy that adds to the Merit of Sephiroth getting into Smash Ultimate. I think part of this also stems from when Nomura asked Sakurai if he was really sure about using Cloud, an "Old Character" rather than someone like Lightning or such

I think the reason I'm also thinking this is because of the Lack of a 2nd rep in another Series: Sonic. I think the One Big Advantage FF7 had was that it had much more Japanese Popularity than Sonic as a Franchise does, but I think the Remake really added that Nudge that made Adding Sephiroth such a Complete Package in terms of Merits

I like Sonic, but I have to Admit that it's Quality control is shaky, and the Hype of the Remake was much higher than recent Sonic games like Forces can compare too, especially in Japan. I think also one main thing was that at the time of the Project Plan, the Last Sonic Game was Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric (If you don't want to include Mobile games), the Game that some would even consider worse than 06. This was also the game that Sega promised to Nintendo to make as apart of the Nintendo Exclusive deal, and I'm sure Nintendo was not happy with being given a Game that can Rival 06 in Infamy

I think at this Point, Unless Sonic can make another Game that wows the Japanese Audience (Maybe Sonic Rangers could do it), I think in spite of the Legendary Status of the Series, and it's Iconic Cast, I think the way any secondary character would get in is through Major Requests. Luckily Shadow and Eggman had their biggest hype in this Speculation Cycle.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ahhhhhh... Sakurai you sneaky dog. I saw what you did.

You snuck every character into Sora's gameplay demonstration. It's almost in order too.

Very sneaky, but amazing.

 

[3BitSaurus]

But of course.

The best part of any character in Smash.

Actually... could it be that Sakurai's plan this whole time was to make Kirby eat people from different universes so he can become the ultimate devourer?

Really makes ya think.

 

[Hammer B]

“Mr Sakurai. The representatives from Disney are here to discuss their terms for Sora.”

“Please. Send them in.” pic.twitter.com/HqwAuYWYEn

— Blake ™ (@NeilNevins) October 5, 2021

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Enjoying the paopu fruits.

Everyone is here <3#Sora #KingdomHearts #SmashBros #SmashUltimate #ThankYouSakurai pic.twitter.com/FkNLo6r26V

— Chiru (@AlmightyChiru) October 6, 2021

 

[Ivander]

Ahhhhhh... Sakurai you sneaky dog. I saw what you did.

You snuck every character into Sora's gameplay demonstration. It's almost in order too.

Very sneaky, but amazing.

But...he mentioned that before showing Sora's gameplay that he wanted to show off the fighters in order.

 

[rychu_supadude]

Now with FP11 being out we’re probably not as far away as people make it seem from seeing the next smash. The wait from wii u smash to ultimate was 2 years. Assuming the next smash is currently in planning phase and they plan to build off ultimate but just cut the roaster and stages then we could get the next smash in 2/3 years realistically

I doubt it is in the planning phase just yet or Sakurai wouldn't have been so sentimental about the end of an era. The Bandai Namco team is probably disbanded for the time being (as of the end of the year). At this point, we don't even have rumours about Nintendo's next device aside from "4K maaaaybe", so it could be at least three years out and could be backwards compatible with no need to rush a new Smash game

Sakurai hasn't specifically referred to Ultimate as his last game at any point - it could be that after so many years of talking about retirement from the series and not doing it he just wants to go quietly, or he could be leaving the door open.

Speculation will outlive us all.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

But...he mentioned that before showing Sora's gameplay that he wanted to show off the fighters in order.

Oh.

I missed that part.

My b.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Smash 6 is such an interesting question. Our roster this time, while massive and impressive, is pretty bloated lets be honest.

Cuts are very much expected, with the only ones that most wouldn't cry over likely being the melee veterans (even they have their fans).

In terms of first parties, they are considered safer than the 3rd parties, for good reason. However, looking at Smash 4. Beloved and requested characters like Wolf didn't make it. Ultimate is likely to follow this trend to a bigger degree, with the bigger roster.

Clones are also an interesting question, while they have far less dev time attached to them, they also aren't even close to being considered as important as unique fighters. It begs the question whether we'll see a returning fighter have their echo axed.

3rd parties are definitely the most intriguing. They are essentially a high risk high reward group. Much more popular than 1st parties, but obviously they cost money. Take Sora for instance, he was considered near impossible to achieve with how costly Disney is to get on board. But as we know now he is the most requested Smash character ever. This can be applied to most 3rd Parties and how many and who will return is completely up in the air.

There is no telling what Smash 6's roster will look like (aside from the obvious cast), but if there's one thing guaranteed. We can expect a lot of people asking for returning veterans as DLC.

Unless of course we get a port or Everyone is Here is somehow achieved again, in which case this post was pointless.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I can't wait until December for the next DLC character is announced at the Game Awards. My sources are telling me its going to be this guy ;

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Since the last character has now been revealed, here's a lot of happy people today because they got at least 1 character they've wanted in Smash, but is there anybody out there who has 0 characters they truly wanted in Smash? Even though there were a few really cool additions to Ultimate, I feel pretty letdown that none of the characters I was hoping for never made it to Ultimate and probably won't ever make it when the next Smash game comes around, but I've pretty much accepted the reality that not every character will be in Smash, including the 1s that you want the most.

This'll be my last question before I decide to wrap up my thoughts on DLC and delete my account as speculation was the main reason I stuck around smashboards even when I was less active on this thread as time went on. Now that it's pretty much over with a few things left to be said, I don't have much of a reason to stick around anymore.

None of my S tier wants made it
One A tier (Min Min) and a few B tiers (Chrom, Isabelle) did

 

[GalacticPetey]

Throwback to awhile back when we were ****posting and I made a joke theory called "October S theory" since two big third parties whose names started with S got revealed in October (Sonic and Steve). I did it to poke fun at all the dumb "theories" people come up with but it ended up being real with Sora.

Vergeben eat your heart out, my post launch predictions have a better track record than you.

 

[Fluttershy64]

Throwback to awhile back when we were ****posting and I made a joke theory called "October S theory" since two big third parties whose names started with S got revealed in October (Sonic and Steve). I did it to poke fun at all the dumb "theories" people come up with but it ended up being real with Sora.

Vergeben eat your heart out, my post launch predictions have a better track record than you.

For Smash 6. this is how Shantae can still win!

 

[ForsakenM]

This thread is going a mile a minute and for once I'm very much okay with it. I know some people are ridiculously salty, but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say screw the Sora haters, and not just because of my older history with the game either.

Sora getting in is a defying of all the odds. There was a reason Sora was constantly rejected by the community, often even by those who wanted him, and my god how many times did we have the same discussions about his chances and what is holding him back. Hell, we had a leak that, while I don't believe Sakurai would wait that long to get music rights for a presentation and thus think the leak was fake but we still got Sora anyway, it got ignored by all of us like a street beggar in NY. Sure, we talked about it, but mostly just about how ****ing fake it was. Imagine having a character choice that is so impossible that it can leak multiple times months before and NO ONE BELIEVES IT! That's just how wild Sora is baby.

Just bare in mind that it's VERY likely that Sora either actually got rejected and then was accepted later, or was in some sort of negotiation hell that took years much like Steve. By the way, to all those who thought Nintendo or Sakurai doesn't listen just because of a few out-of-place character choices that probably should have been base game, this man came out and said 'Yeah Sora won the ballot, it just took this long to get him in, but we did it for you guys!' If there was ever a reason to encourage each community around a character or franchise to keep up the hype and not let go, it's Sora. I don't think it's an exaggeration to call him the most Tabuu (haha) of all characters, simply uttering 'Disney' being enough to actively destroy speculation.

As far as I'm concerned, the only things I see hurting a characters chances are fan support and a certain level of marketability, something that ties back into support to a degree. They don't have to be huge picks: they just have to be requested and have evidence of financial success to a certain extent. I used to think indies would have to wait but who even knows now.

Sakurai seems to want to move on from Smash, at least temporarily. Let's be generous and say he spends three years making a non-smash game, and then another three making a Smash. That's six years, and development for either game could easily take longer. The only way we get a game before that is if he gets someone else to direct the game, which I... don't know what to think about.

Someone didn't watch Sakurai's full interviews with Harada. Sakurai basically said that as long as he can provide something that is needed or desired, he would continue so long as he could continue to provide. Did you see how much he was smiling despite this being the last time he would present Ultimate for us? It actually more sounds like Sakurai has fallen in love with Smash all over again through the DLC process, it being less strain and him still being able to reach out and get massive character picks.

It seems like Sakurai still loves Smash because it terms of it's core, it has remained the same, whereas he dropped Kirby because he felt it was becoming something it wasn't and was being pushed to go the CoD/AC route of the sequel machine. No matter how tough he has had it with Smash and his superiors or how much we've changed how the game is played, Sakurai has been able to keep the core about video games being awesome and getting together to have a fun time. I really don't think he's anywhere close to giving that up. I'd give him another 10-20 years before that.

 

[PeridotGX]

it's funny how the most hype DLC content starts with S. Sans, Steve, Sephiroth, and now Sora. The only exception is "Banjo"... if that even is his real name... I'm on to you Shirley.

 

[toonito]

Sora's probably in my top 15-20 character range but i've been in a good mood all day due to his inclusion

my ultimate newcomer tierlist:

S:
A:
B:
C:
D:
F:

overall my favorite set of newcomers in Smash

 

[spicynun]

My three biggest wants after Ridley were Banjo, Sora, and Phoenix Wright. Can't complain with two out of three

 

[Mamboo07]

Enjoying the paopu fruits.

Everyone is here <3#Sora #KingdomHearts #SmashBros #SmashUltimate #ThankYouSakurai pic.twitter.com/FkNLo6r26V

— Chiru (@AlmightyChiru) October 6, 2021

Why is Kirby always so adorable? 0u0

Never mind, I love it.

 

[PeridotGX]

Someone didn't watch Sakurai's full interviews with Harada. Sakurai basically said that as long as he can provide something that is needed or desired, he would continue so long as he could continue to provide. Did you see how much he was smiling despite this being the last time he would present Ultimate for us? It actually more sounds like Sakurai has fallen in love with Smash all over again through the DLC process, it being less strain and him still being able to reach out and get massive character picks.

It seems like Sakurai still loves Smash because it terms of it's core, it has remained the same, whereas he dropped Kirby because he felt it was becoming something it wasn't and was being pushed to go the CoD/AC route of the sequel machine. No matter how tough he has had it with Smash and his superiors or how much we've changed how the game is played, Sakurai has been able to keep the core about video games being awesome and getting together to have a fun time. I really don't think he's anywhere close to giving that up. I'd give him another 10-20 years before that.

I might have phrased that poorly. I meant to say that, given that he's been working on the series for almost a straight decade now, he might like to do another project before going right back for another Smash. It gives him time to do something new, the industry more time to create potential content for Smash 6, and us more time to (for lack of a better term) move on from Ultimate.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Not ready to think about the next Smash game yet. All I can say is even though it'll probably be good with new characters it won't top what Ultimate has done. This game is truly special. Hence why it's called Special in Japan.

 

[7NATOR]

Also something I noticed

Is it just a Coincidence that the Big Ballot Newcomers (Ridley, K.Rool, Belmonts Banjo, Sora) are Simple in their Execution, especially in the Case of Banjo and Sora since their other Contemporary DLC Characters have some pretty Complex Mechanics

Or do you think it's Deliberate

 

[Hammer B]

finally https://t.co/77gwMClPoc

— DOOM (@DOOM) October 5, 2021

 

[Louie G.]

As for my character rankings, I'm gonna exclude Sora for now because that's yet to be seen. Like I said before though I'm pretty impressed with how he looks despite not liking the character choice very much so he's lingering somewhere around B tier for now.

S TIER:


Just straight up, the fact that K. Rool and Ridley are in this game still astounds me and stand as the most satisfying reveals in my experience speculating this series. K. Rool is absolutely FLAWLESS - literally best case scenario and more - and while I have my reservations about Ridley's overall design, the effort is there and I still find him to be a whole lot of fun.

Meanwhile, Terry is just so cool. He's not a character I rooted for, and I don't have much stake in his games either, but damn the amount of love poured into this character is infectious and his redemption from "literally who" for most of the community into a near unanimously embraced part of the Smash family is something truly special. In my opinion, those kind of characters are the best.

A TIER:


There are a whole lot of different reasons that I like these guys. Banjo and Sephiroth are just fantastic additions that are both fun to play and made tons of people happy, which made me happy. Meanwhile Incineroar and Plant are some of the most pleasant surprises in Ultimate, despite being skeptical at first I quickly fell in love with their charisma and creativity. They're so expressive and fun, definitely among my favorites to play in the game.

Simon and Hero are great celebrations of series that honestly feel like they always should have been here. I like Simon's design a little better just by nature of not being super into crazy gimmicks, but Hero is easy to love for the sheer chaos and laughs that they bring along with them. And Steve? Honestly, Steve is the MVP of FP2 for me. I was never a big Minecraft guy but man, I love oddball characters and I sincerely appreciate the variety that Steve brings to the table. There's nobody else who plays like him and nobody else who could.

B TIER:


I love that Isabelle and Min Min are here a whole lot, I'm just critical of their implementation. Isabelle remains a bit too similar to Villager for my liking, and although some of her new tools are very cool... I don't think she got the proper amount of love she deserved, it almost feels like they sorta gave up halfway. But I really do love Isabelle. And I think Min Min is awesome, but man they did make her frustrating to fight against. Implementing a disarming mechanic would have went a long way I think, it wouldn't have felt too out of place either since that's such a prominent part of ARMS gameplay anyway.

Kazuya and Inkling are rock solid additions, I'm just neutral toward them! I think they faithfully represent what is special about their series and introduce some fun gameplay ideas, they just haven't knocked me out of the park the same way a lot of the other guys did yknow?

C TIER:


Generally a bit more underwhelming for me. I hate to say this about Joker, but I dunno I think I like everything ELSE about Joker's inclusion (stage, music) more than the character himself. He's kind of plain, which is fine but I'm just not big on the meter / comeback stuff. And then Pythra is alright, I think they're a good take on the tag team mechanic, but in retrospect just aren't really anything special for me. I think they have some cool moveset ideas but that's counteracted a bit by how frustrating some of those ideas are to deal with. No disrespect toward these two, just not up to par for me.

D TIER:


I'm not special for saying it, I just don't like Byleth's inclusion. I think they also have a pretty fun moveset, and honestly I'd like to give them another go and hope I'll come around on them some more. But I mean, I think Corrin is fun too. I just don't think either of them were good additions. Power to you if you like them though! Kind of pointless to be holding grudges toward these guys anymore though, let's just enjoy the rest of the roster right?
---

Overall, I think Ultimate has definitely delivered on that name. Some of the most highly requested characters ever have joined the roster, from beloved first parties to pipe dream third parties and a ton of welcome surprises in between. I wish there was a little more variety across the DLC here and there - over-reliance on stuff like comeback mechanics and catering more to certain audiences, I would have especially enjoyed another Terry esque surprise pick too - but all in all it's hard to complain with such a diverse and fun roster of gaming icons. I think my overwhelmingly positive ratings of the roster speak for itself.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It feels weird seeing the Kazuya emote constantly break

 

[DarthEnderX]

Sora ain't even out and some of you really want to get right to Smash 6 already huh

Hell yeah! Finally time to replace Erdrick in my most wanted.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

So question. Now that Ultimate is complete who do you guys think felt was left out or in other words...Done dirty.

HAYABUSAAAAAA!!

Not even a Mii Swordfighter...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

May as well do my tier ranking.

SS:
S:
A: /
B:Sora
C:
D:

 

[Mamboo07]

finally https://t.co/77gwMClPoc

— DOOM (@DOOM) October 5, 2021

The memes were real.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Since the last character has now been revealed, here's a lot of happy people today because they got at least 1 character they've wanted in Smash, but is there anybody out there who has 0 characters they truly wanted in Smash? Even though there were a few really cool additions to Ultimate, I feel pretty letdown that none of the characters I was hoping for never made it to Ultimate and probably won't ever make it when the next Smash game comes around, but I've pretty much accepted the reality that not every character will be in Smash, including the 1s that you want the most.

This'll be my last question before I decide to wrap up my thoughts on DLC and delete my account as speculation was the main reason I stuck around smashboards even when I was less active on this thread as time went on. Now that it's pretty much over with a few things left to be said, I don't have much of a reason to stick around anymore.

I’m kinda in the middle here. I didn’t really get anyone I wanted, but I’m not too upset because I already had a lot that I liked. I really only wanted Inkling cause I enjoy Splatoon. But since that was basically a guarantee from the get-go, I didn’t really back anyone till DLC, and I still didn’t get any of my most wanted characters. However, once an ARMS character was announced, I did back Min Min. So I guess I got that, even though she wasn’t initially on my list. Regardless, I’m not too upset. We got a lot of good additions, and some underwhelming, but I’ve been happy with Ultimate for a while now. The characters I wanted would have been a nice cherry on top, but the sundae itself was never truly in need of the cherry in the first place.

 

[Idon]

Ahhhhhh... Sakurai you sneaky dog. I saw what you did.

You snuck every character into Sora's gameplay demonstration. It's almost in order too.

Very sneaky, but amazing.

Well it wasn't really sneaky he said he'd do that at the start of the presentation...

 

[Kokiden]

The big disappointment is the lack of music. Getting the rights to KH music is obviously a legal nightmare, but so was getting Sora himself so I’m sad we couldn’t get Simple and Clean.

The best part of KH is the music, and 9 songs is great and all, but I wish they picked other tracks, like 13th struggle.

Ah well. There's Destati and Hollow Bastion at least.

Not happy Dearly Beloved is locked behind another game. That's just a **** move for those who bought the DLC.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

7NATOR thinking of your absolute heckin chonker I can’t believe I actually typed that of a post earlier and about early negotiations

Would you say EA is another candidate? The Sims, Apex Legends, and the like?

 

[Gengar84]

I really hope we can.

I'm legit bothered by the notion that we won't have a dedicated speculation/wishlist thread until Smash 6 gets announced...

Same here. There are still a ton of characters I’d love to see get in Smash at some point and it’s a shame we won’t really have a place to talk about them.

As for Sora, I didn’t actively want him but I did beat every mainline Kingdom Hearts as well as BBS. The games are a lot of fun but I never cared about Sora too much as a character. Still, he’s a great final choice for Smash, especially since he actually won the ballot so I have no complaints. Hopefully my other favorites can make it in the next game.