Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Mamboo07]

I think this aged well before Sora got into Smash:

Spoiler: Many people though he would be hard to get in as a fighter

Don't know if that's bit of blood splattered there...

 

[FirestormNeos]

So with Ultimate finally having come to an end. What's everyone's overall thoughts and opinions to ever newcomer?

Happy without Qualifier- (Maybe )
A tad disappointing moveset-wise, but I'm glad they made it in- (Maybe )
Wasn't expecting much, was pleasantly Surprised-
"Hey that's kinda neat"-
Happy for everyone who wanted the character, but otherwise IDGAF-
Garbage Tier-

R.I.P Galar lol

it's funny how the most hype DLC content starts with S. Sans, Steve, Sephiroth, and now Sora. The only exception is "Banjo"... if that even is his real name... I'm on to you Shirley.

"That's his deadname. Please don't call him that"

 

[SKX31]

I do think there is one thing to still speculate on: balance changes. Will this next patch be the last? Will Falcon get somehow buffed again for the 20th time?

Don't think the next patch will be the last simply because they'd really want to avoid another situation. While Ultimate doesn't have any character anywhere near the meta-breaking capabilities of Smash 4's top tiers, there are still some stuff to iron out. Characters like and are stupidly common in Serious Business play currently (and if you were to ask me which character outside of FP2 seemed most likely to get nerfed even so slightly, it might be ROB in particular).

Also, their balance methodology has been pretty clear - Thinkaman highlighted this in the competitive thread:

The balance has been pretty heavily top-heavy.

The initial set of 5 characters nerfed in mid-2019 were 5-for-5 the top 5 of Reddit's community tier list at the time. They have shown a willingness to nerf characters like Peach, ZSS, and Wario who only really thrive in top 100 play and perform almost poorly according to more general metrics.

Sonic and Ness are clear exceptions-that-prove-the-rule. Both have always been extremely overused at lower levels/online (two of the highest usage characters) and exhibit infamously poor win-rates despite being great at top level. They both got a jumble of casual-focused buffs (Ness u-throw anyone?) as if the balance team was playing a game of Operation to see how much they could buff a character without helping Gackt or KEN.

If this game was being balanced based on 90th percentile play, you'd see Bowser/Ness/DK nerfs and Peach/Olimar/Joker buffs.

If this game was being balanced based on 99th percentile play, you'd see Snake/DDD/Terry nerfs and Chrom/MK/DH buffs.

If there are any changes that affect casual play specifically it tends to be either:

• Moves that were really underpowered: Ness U-Throw.
• Cheese / tactics that can be a significant problems at lower levels: K Rool Blunderbuss Vacuum or the "Succ" getting its duration halved early on from 5 secs to 2,5, Min Min's F-Smash charge likewise getting its charge cut down to a 1/4th, etc.

That said, I'm pretty confident Falcon won't get another buff. If he does though I'm calling shenaningas willing to bow to my lord and savior.

I might have phrased that poorly. I meant to say that, given that he's been working on the series for almost a straight decade now, he might like to do another project before going right back for another Smash. It gives him time to do something new, the industry more time to create potential content for Smash 6, and us more time to (for lack of a better term) move on from Ultimate.

While I'm kinda inclined to agree here, I don't think Sakurai has the answer yet as to what he wants to do next. Also, as someone who's a VIP at Nintendo (especially after this) he doesn't have to rush to whatever he does next: he could take a month or twos vacation, figure out if he wants to go for and just go full throttle with that. If Nintendo wants Smash 6 or whatever on the next console, they'll tell him but also likely give him leeway to pursue say another project.

And it's worth noting that the Melee -> Brawl gap was around 5-6 years as well. Yes, the Ultimate -> Smash 6 gap is going to be different (possibly a longer period of time) but I'm pretty confident in Ultimate retaining a significant playerbase for years to come. And hey, it'll still be a party / fighting game that people can come back to from time to time whenever they feel like it. It certainly helped Melee's staying power during that wait.

Since the last character has now been revealed, here's a lot of happy people today because they got at least 1 character they've wanted in Smash, but is there anybody out there who has 0 characters they truly wanted in Smash? Even though there were a few really cool additions to Ultimate, I feel pretty letdown that none of the characters I was hoping for never made it to Ultimate and probably won't ever make it when the next Smash game comes around, but I've pretty much accepted the reality that not every character will be in Smash, including the 1s that you want the most.

This'll be my last question before I decide to wrap up my thoughts on DLC and delete my account as speculation was the main reason I stuck around smashboards even when I was less active on this thread as time went on. Now that it's pretty much over with a few things left to be said, I don't have much of a reason to stick around anymore.

Also in the middle - didn't get a lot of characters I would've wanted beforehand really (and none of my Top 5 MW), but was pleasantly surprised by a number of picks - Hero, Terry, Kazuya - and got some picks I really liked from their games - Joker, B-K, Sephiroth, Sora.

Yes, I know I can't get everything I want in as well - but at the end of the day I'm happy about Ultimate as is. And as such plan on continuing to play Smash and visit these forums from time to time.

 

[Ivander]

For Smash 6. this is how Shantae can still win!

I mean, one possible way of helping Shantae can be supporting Advance Wars Reboot Camp, as that is being done by Wayforward. If Advance Wars does well, we could see more collabs between Nintendo and Wayforward.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I mean, one possible way of helping Shantae can be supporting Advance Wars Reboot Camp, as that is being done by Wayforward. If Advance Wars does well, we could see more collabs between Nintendo and Wayforward.

AND it would bring life to advance wars too!

how much is it going for cuz I may stream it on my Twitch channel - everyone knows YouTube and Twitch are some of the best means of publicity

 

[Megadoomer]

@7NATOR thinking of your absolute heckin chonker I can’t believe I actually typed that of a post earlier and about early negotiations

Would you say EA is another candidate? The Sims, Apex Legends, and the like?

I feel like they'd probably go with a Soldier class rather than any of the biotic ones, but it would be neat to see Mass Effect make it into Smash.

EDIT: Misread the post - thought you were asking who from EA was a candidate. Still, I figure it's worth mentioning.

 

[ROBnWatch]

Characters like and are stupidly common in Serious Business play currently (and if you were to ask me which character outside of FP2 seemed most likely to get nerfed even so slightly, it might be ROB in particular).

HAHAHA! Keep dreaming!!!

…

Please don’t nerf him, Sakurai…

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I feel like they'd probably go with a Soldier class rather than any of the biotic ones, but it would be neat to see Mass Effect make it into Smash.

EDIT: Misread the post - thought you were asking who from EA was a candidate. Still, I figure it's worth mentioning.

Tbh I wouldn’t mind ME Music

also if Shepard becomes playable, the male alt needs his Hipster line as a taunt

 

[Mamboo07]

So with Ultimate finally having come to an end. What's everyone's overall thoughts and opinions to ever newcomer?







/Sora

For me:
Hype - Sora
Pretty Happy -
Great -
Good - /Mythra
Bad -
Disappointment -

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If there's new one thing that I'd call necessary for Smash 6, it's gotta be Indie Fighters. It's still absolutely crazy to me we haven't gotten one yet aside from kinda Steve.

 

[Mamboo07]

If there's new one thing that I'd call necessary for Smash 6, it's gotta be Indie Fighters. It's still absolutely crazy to me we haven't gotten one yet aside from kinda Steve.

Steve used to be indie but isn't anymore.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Lemme try something


Shows fine for me, idk why he inexplicably turns into Mythra in other people’s posts

 

[PeridotGX]

Between Bill Cipher in the Simpsons and Sora in Smash, Disney decided to be cool this week.

Now... Mahvel 4.

 

[Ivander]

AND it would bring life to advance wars too!

how much is it going for cuz I may stream it on my Twitch channel - everyone knows YouTube and Twitch are some of the best means of publicity

checks
comes back

The usual Nintendo price.

Lemme try something


Shows fine for me, idk why he inexplicably turns into Mythra in other people’s posts

He sometimes shows up as glasses Joker for me. Whereas Sora tends to show up as Alex for me.

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, we gonna still speculate on future balance patches, spirit events, and Mii costumes, or do those stop with the Sora pack?

I'm sure Mii costumes are done. But Spirit events could still happen.

If you go thinking Rex is going to get in next time and forget how series without static casts phase each other out, you're going to fall down the Elma pit.

What the hell would he even be, considering most of his moveset is already separate characters?

Also @Shroob I lost it when you said “LAST CHARACTER WILL A SHILL PICK WHO? “ and “SO THEH NEVER END ON A HIGH NOTE, HUH??” And whatnot

I mean, technically, Sora is a TOTAL shill pick. They straight up advertised a bunch of upcoming KH Switch games during the presentation.

I don't want to hate on anybody, but is anyone else put off by mocking past arguments? Even the more ludicrous ones. To me it just feels... small.

No. Those people spent years making others feel small with those arguments.

Call it "stooping to their level" or whatever. I won't shed a tear.

As someone on the NASB thread, I havent heard that. At most, I have heard they are tired of being compared to smash.

"We're tired of being compared to the thing we're blatantly ripping off!"

Smash as the One up on KH3 since unlike that game, you can actually Fight Sephiroth in Smash. Since KH3 Sora is in the game, this is closet thing to a KH3 Sephiroth Boss Fight. Interesting

That reminds me. Cloud's KH alt should have been included with Sora!

now that i think about it, Sora kinda has a crappy tagline.

"Sora's finally here. Performing for you.
If you know the words, you can join in too!"

I would like spirits for all mii costumes. Doom guy and his rabbit. Vault Boy. Etc.

Every character that appears in Smash in any way should have a Spirit.

boutta make smash 6 support threads for both tabuu and solaire lmao seems like alot of ppl expected them during the fakeouts

Well, having everyone turn into figs DOES suggest Master Hand/Tabuu. Almost to the level of "intentional misdirect". It certainly has nothing to do with KH.

 

[a.Asdsa]

To people saying Sora is a "generic Sword character' I think it's actually by design that he is, since Sakurai said he wanted Sora to be approachable, so he just gave him similar moves to other sword characters but made him feel more different.

I felt disappointed at his moveset at first too, but now I see it's a deliberate design choice and not laziness.

 

[PeridotGX]

Lemme try something


Shows fine for me, idk why he inexplicably turns into Mythra in other people’s posts

He's glasses Joker for me. Additionally is Alex. is blank and is like 90% Zombie and 10% Enderman.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

What a wild day.

I really don’t know how to describe the feelings I had when I saw the trailer earlier, but wow. It was a fitting finale for what will likely go down as one of the best crossovers in history, especially meeting the fan demand of a character like Sora. Just amazing.

I took the time to call a few friends and get their reactions and that was something else. Both of them played Kingdom Hearts when they were kids. I first played about 2 years ago, so while I love the addition of Sora and am hyped, it’s nothing compared to what they’re feeling right now. I’m so incredibly happy for them.

If only I could have been a fly on the wall for the negotiations between Disney and Nintendo.

Now, potential hot take here…but I feel confident in the idea that Pass 2 was planned from the start, or before the launch of the game. I think they had a very clear set of objectives post-ballot and wanted to achieve as many as possible, as well as fill in any gaps created due to development time. Now we’re here.

What a DAY.

 

[2006ToyotaTacoma]

So with Ultimate finally having come to an end. What's everyone's overall thoughts and opinions to ever newcomer?







/Sora

MW's Tier -

Based -

Nice -

Meh -

Disappointing -

Min Min Tier -

 

[Gengar84]

One good thing about Sora making it in is that I have an excuse to start talking about Xemnas and Ansem as potential characters. Xemnas was actually one of my most wanted but he made no sense to talk about without Sora first being in. I’d love to get Xemnas or Ansem in the next game like we got Sephiroth for Ultimate.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It is really hilarious though, on the week where they did a flying with wings event, they add a character that flies without wings in his trailer.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

To people saying Sora is a "generic Sword character' I think it's actually by design that he is, since Sakurai said he wanted Sora to be approachable, so he just gave him similar moves to other sword characters but made him feel more different.

I felt disappointed at his moveset at first too, but now I see it's a deliberate design choice and not laziness.

Some of his moves are locked behind Disney stuff like Trinity Limit and the form attacks.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Are the emotes for Joker's alt., Alex, Zombie, and Enderman blank for anyone else?

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

By the by- Sakurai didn’t disconfirm the Cacomallow leak. Clearly Mallow and Cacodemon were replaced with Geno and Doomguy.

Come at me, this is the truth and y’all know it.

Spoiler: Wait…

I just realized I have to go and buy a six pack of Cherry Coke because Pepsiman lost.

But what if I told you…I actually PREFER coke over Pepsi these days????????

 

[N3ON]

Well, if there's one thing I can at least say about the future of Smash, it's that with Sora, they're finally out of anime swordies

Yep. None left.

Unless... wait...

Oh god

 

[Paraster]

Steve used to be indie but isn't anymore.

Yeah, that's been a weird thing hanging over this game.

Do we count Steve as an indie because his presence shows how far indies can and have come? Or do we not count him because Microsoft's involvement fundamentally changes how Minecraft is viewed and one could argue Minecraft may not even have gotten to this point without them?

I just wanted a current "true" indie so that these questions are a moot point outside of who came first. (Helps that a lot of characters that would be in my top picks anyway are indie.)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah, that's been a weird thing hanging over this game.

Do we count Steve as an indie because his presence shows how far indies can and have come? Or do we not count him because Microsoft's involvement fundamentally changes how Minecraft is viewed and one could argue Minecraft may not even have gotten to this point without them?

I just wanted a current "true" indie so that these questions are a moot point outside of who came first. (Helps that a lot of characters that would be in my top picks anyway are indie.)

Would Reimu count? She’s pretty much the OG indie anyway

 

[MarioRaccoon]

Lets review our predictions/whislist we got for FP2:

The Next 6 DLC Characters

Today, Sakurai confirmed that a second Fighter Pass is in development, now with 6 Fighters as opposed to 5. Use this thread to post your predictions about the contents of the second Fighter Pass.

smashboards.com

Mine was:

1) Sora
2) Crash Bandicoot
3) Dante
4) Doomslayer
5) Heihachi (well we got Kazuya but any Tekken rep was ok for me).
6) Ryu Hayabusa

Happy that got 2/6 as playable characters and other 2 as Miis.

 

[PeridotGX]

Well, if there's one thing I can at least say about the future of Smash, it's that with Sora, they're finally out of anime swordies

Yep. None left.

Unless... wait...

Oh god

They are... inevitable

 

[Fluttershy64]

Sorry if this has been posted already but is the thread going to stay open for a while?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Sorry if this has been posted already but is the thread going to stay open for a while?

I'm presumably thinking until Sora finally releases?

 

[Paraster]

Would Reimu count? She’s pretty much the OG indie anyway

I'd say yes. While non-indie companies have made Touhou games, I'd liken that to something like Cadence of Hyrule. ZUN is still the sole rights-holder, and the "official" Touhou games are either solo projects or collaborations with another indie company.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, one possible way of helping Shantae can be supporting Advance Wars Reboot Camp, as that is being done by Wayforward. If Advance Wars does well, we could see more collabs between Nintendo and Wayforward.

I'd hope that helps Andy get into Smash more than Shantae.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Would Reimu count? She’s pretty much the OG indie anyway

Thought that was Quote/Curly Brave? Then again I'm not too knowledgeable on the Indie lore.

 

[Warumian]

Talk about how great of an achievement this game was because we're probably never gonna get such a crossover this massive ever again

Fortnite

 

[Paraster]

Thought that was Quote/Curly Brave? Then again I'm not too knowledgeable on the Indie lore.

Touhou started in the late 90's, Cave Story released in 2004.

I'd actually argue Cave Story is a bigger influence on the history of indies, but Touhou DID come first.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Touhou started in the late 90's, Cave Story released in 2004.

I'd actually argue Cave Story is a bigger influence on the history of indies, but Touhou DID come first.

Ah gotcha then so basically like Doomslayer and Master Chief. DOOM was the first FPS but Halo had the biggest impact.

 

[Fluttershy64]

I'm presumably thinking until Sora finally releases?

Got it. And then do most of us move over to the social thread?

 

[DanganZilla5]

My tier list for newcomers in Ultimate

Most wanted - ,,

Made me fell in love with their game/Would have been one of my most wanted if I played the game first -

Hype! - , , ,

I like them a lot! -

I like them a decent amount -

Meh -

Disappointment -

Overall for scores...

Base game: 9/10
1st pass: 7.5/10
2nd pass: 9/10

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Got it. And then do most of us move over to the social thread?

Seems that is likely the case.