Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

Don't forget Bayonetta

NO CHEATERS

Though, it is really weird to see Steve and Alex each get one. I guess Mojang was easygoing with Merchandise.

Those ****ers are gonna sell though and correct me if I'm wrong but you can just use the same mold for both.

 

[Arcanir]

I ended up sleeping through the presentation, but the first thing I did was look up the video before coming on here and I'm glad I did.

Congratulations to the Sora fans, especially Nekoo and DaybreakHorizon . You guys campaigned for a character you loved but didn't think would be likely to get in, and your desire and the votes you put in to have him in the game paid off. It's a dream come true to see your favorite character(s) playable in Smash, especially when it feels like the odds are stacked against you, and I hope you enjoy playing him in this game for years to come.

For me, I haven't really played Kingdom Hearts myself, I'm still really excited to see the character as my cousin adores the character. I remember him asking me if he'd show up in Smash a couple years back, but at the time we only just got news of FP2 so I wasn't able to give him an answer. Today I'll finally be able to give him that answer, and while I'm not sure if he's still following Smash I'd love to play a few matches with him. A dream match between me and Ridley vs. him and Sora would be so much fun, and a great way to cap off this game.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I can't believe I thought it was gonna be a Pokémon lmao
R.I.P Galar lol

That was one good thing about Sora’s inclusion I guess.

 

[rychu_supadude]

I don't want to hear anyone say Smash reveals always end underwhelming EVER AGAIN.

I wish I could retroactively prevent the people with bad taste from ever having said it

 

[DarthEnderX]

I'm glad for everyone who got what they wanted but the compromises they clearly had to do in order to appease the copyright demons over at Disney makes the whole reveal a bit of a dud for me.

I like how you blame Disney for that even though it's likely Sakurai didn't WANT that stuff in the first place since it's not video game content.

Only if you're prepared for Waluigi, Sans and Geno.

If it means all us Simon voters get to vote for Hayabusa and Rizer now, deal.

 

[ZelDan]

I never played KH so unfortunately I can't bask in the excitement like 98% of the Smash fanbase seems to be right now.

he's a fitting and understandable character and congrats to the KH fans and all, but yeah, not the greatest end to a Smash bros game for me.

 

[cashregister9]

This whole game is one giant power move and Sora is just another fantastic addition.

 

[SNEKeater]

I honestly can't believe Sora is in Smash, he wasn't one of my most wanteds but he was a cool choice in my book. I've played almost all the games in the series but in the past few years I wasn't as much into KH as I was before, but I still appreciate the series and I had a lot of fun playing the games. Even with that, that reveal with Simple and Clean playing in the background got me kinda emotional, same with seeing Riku, Roxas and the other characters in the stage.

Kinda sad for the lack of certain music tracks and how Dearly Beloved is only unlockable if you have Melody of Memory, but overall I was really happy with this. Also, the Doomguy costume actually looks kinda cool.

And of course, even if he's not going to read this, thanks Sakurai and his team for all of their work on Smash. Ultimate is just an incredible game.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As someone who said they really just wanted the final character to be a big holy **** one that would get people excited, I'm glad to see to happen. After all the controversy about Smash not finishing strong, it was nice to have one where it unambiguously did.

In regards to Sora himself, its bittersweet. On some level I will always lament that Bandana Dee and Dixie not getting in Smash 4 meant they were not likely to be considered in the flood of third parties that emerged in that game's DLC and after. There's still some noticeable absences in the roster and if I said I considered the roster complete, that would be a lie.

But on the other hand as someone blown away by Sonic in Brawl, Mega Man in 4, & Banjo in Ultimate, I know that in so many ways for other fans, that's what Sora's inclusion is to them. That the Disney elements aren't present and yet so many are so happy tells you how much attachment they have to Kingdom Hearts and how meaningful it so very is.

And there’s something to be said for that.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

pic.twitter.com/byS8gA1zyb

— rohan doge (@RohanDoge) October 5, 2021

Both were high on the ballot too, even if winning was a white lie.

 

[Ivander]

I can already see it in the discussion too. Cuts! Cuts everywhere! Really awful.
View attachment 333308

It's inevitable, but anyone with even a fraction of knowledge regarding copyright would not be surprised at some characters not getting back in. Sega, Capcom, Namco and SNK feel pretty safe. Banjo&Kazooie and Steve will probably be safe if Nintendo and Microsoft keep up a good relationship. It's Square, Konami and Sora who are going to be the biggest hurdles, with Nintendo and Square having to deal with a massive amount of copyright, Konami who is a wild card and Sora for having to deal with both Square and Disney.

 

[ARandomZoomer]

I'm glad for everyone who got what they wanted but the compromises they clearly had to do in order to appease the copyright demons over at Disney makes the whole reveal a bit of a dud for me.

0 new arrangements unless you include the short victory theme,
Locked content behind buying a different game,
0 Disney content outside a Mickey icon (although this was to be expected),
and to top it all off, Kirby doesn't even get to use the Keyblade, the copy ability replaces it with a beam of light.

As someone who hasn't played Kingdom Hearts, this comes across as if I've been served only a shadow of what the games actually have to offer, and considering that half the fun of new smash fighters is to see all the content they bring with them, it sort of fails to reach it's true potential in my mind.

Counterpoints the songs are fine as is. Sora has 4 alts representing 4 different games and an alt based on the Steamboat Willie inspired level. It also has content tied to the entire series when FF is stuck on one game despite having 2 fighters.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

#ThankYouSakurai というハッシュタグがトレンドに上がっており､拝見していました｡
感謝するのはこちらの方です本当に｡
多くのかたの支えあっての結果です!

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 5, 2021

“The hashtag is on the trend and I was watching it.
This is the one who is really grateful.
It is the result of the support of many people!”

 

[BlazGreen]

I know not everyone got their character but after seeing the Sora speculation thread join the list of other never evers like Ridley, K.Rool and Banjo I can't help but smile and feel satisfied with the end result.

 

[volbound1700]

Serious question, do we even need this thread anymore? Sounds like we have our final list of characters.

 

[Sucumbio]

"wow they really DID add Sora!"

What I said out loud the moment he was revealed.

Two weeks and then I can actually use him. Gonna have to hurry up and get Kazuya in Elite so I can concentrate on him.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

There's something almost poetic about the final character for the biggest crossover fighting game being from a series founded on grand, implausible crossovers.#SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/c2w3S1OVPK

— CyanYoh (@TheCyanYoh) October 5, 2021

This game couldn't have ended anymore perfectly.

 

[Ivander]

pic.twitter.com/byS8gA1zyb

— rohan doge (@RohanDoge) October 5, 2021

Both were high on the ballot too, even if winning was a lie.

Despite the fact that Nintendo specifically mentioned Bayonetta "won" out of the "most realisable" characters. So it was very clearly stated that there were characters higher than Bayonetta, but Bayonetta was the one that had the least amount of issues at the time. Regardless, we honestly won't know considering the last thing Nintendo wants is releasing the Ballot results for everybody to start pestering companies about their characters being super wanted. For good reason.

 

[Dan Quixote]

Oh shoot this thread opened again, guess I'll repost my reactions here then lol whoops
-
God this was an ordeal lol. I had an exam at the exact same time as the presentation this morning, and of course I knew trying to look up the presentation afterwards would only result in spoilers, so I had to have a friend stream the dang thing to me through Discord. But you know what it was worth it! That trailer was so vague and I seriously thought the little ember would lead to Cinderace. As much as I'm not a Cinderace doomer I am definitely glad it was Sora instead, I don't think anyone could be mad about an inclusion as huge and beloved as that.

That said I'm kinda thinking I would have preferred Doomguy in the end

Sora's moveset looks WILD dudes. He will never ever be gimped with a recovery like that. But also it doesn't seem like he'll be toxic because he's lightweight and has a shorter reach than a lot of other sword wielders. Definitely gonna be near top tier with mobility like that. Heck, Yoshi is my main to this day partially because I love his incredible air mobility, so maybe Sora will click with me. In the same competitive vein, I do have fears that Sora's stage will be ignored because it's too similar to hazardless Smashville. We need more stages in this game competitive community! If I see PS2 one more time I'll lose it! Also the rubberhose alternate costume might be the only one I'll ever use it's so good.

I'm a little disappointed there's no real Disney content in this pack though. How could they not include Donald and Goofy? I mean it's Donald and Goofy! The whole point of Kingdom Hearts could be said to be friendship and you don't include Sora's best friend smh.

We finally get an explanation for what "realizable" meant for Bayonetta's ballot win in Smash 4. Makes sense to me lol, Disney makes everything a little less realizable don't they? I'm guessing in the end that the top 10 of the ballot was some combination of Sora, Bayonetta, King K. Rool, and then allll the cut characters from previous Smash games.

Kingdom Hearts coming to Switch is for sure the most underrated announcement to me here. I'm sure as hell not getting a PS5 anytime soon lol so I'll finally be albe to experience the series I've heard about for years and years. I hope only KHIII is cloud gaming though, since that's just annoying.

That round of numbers at the end pretty much confirms to me we'll be getting no Spirit Board events that add new games to the mix, which is sad, but there's a certain weight off my shoulders knowing that SSBU is truly and finally done. I just hope it means we'll be supported with balance patches for a while. And I hope that you've all generally enjoyed yourselves for the past three and a half years! Speculating had its wild ups and downs, but it was an exhilarating ride throughout for sure. Hope this place at least stays open til the 18th or something.

 

[Shroob]

Serious question, do we even need this thread anymore? Sounds like we have our final list of characters.

I mean, people wanna discuss what just happened.

It'll be closed in a few days/week, just give people time to process what just happened.

 

[Powerman293]

I feel so bad for people who wanted a Souls character. That trailer up until Mario throws the fire could have gone in a totally different direction and worked for Dark Souls.

 

[a.Asdsa]

Since Smash Ultimate is finally over I'm gonna be ranking every character in FP2 based on what I think the best thing about them is.

Best Moveset: Steve
Best Aesthetic: Kazuya
Most fun to play: Pyra/Mythra
Most unique: Min Min
Most surprising/cool: Sephiroth
Best animations: Sora


I seriously think Sora is beautifully animated. His youthful energy is captured so well.

 

[Simplythe1]

I have returned, anyways as someone who was an avid fan of Kingdom Hearts back in the day, I'm pretty satisfied with the final reveal, sure there's other characters I would have preferred, but it is what it is (poor Dark Souls fans thought, really thought Chosen Undead was gonna show up...) The internet is not up in flames about Sora's inclusion from what I've seen and that's a good thing....

also REALLY NINTENDO? YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ACKNOWLEDGE DRAGALIA LOST AT ALL!?! I PRAY TO GOD THERE BETTER BE A SPIRIT EVENT

 

[Sucumbio]

Despite the fact that Nintendo specifically mentioned Bayonetta "won" out of the "most realisable" characters. So it was very clearly stated that there were characters higher than Bayonetta, but Bayonetta was the one that had the least amount of issues at the time. Regardless, we honestly won't know considering the last thing Nintendo wants is releasing the Ballot results for everybody to start pestering companies about their characters being super wanted. For good reason.

I say let them pester! Gotta give the people what they want!

 

[HYRULESHERO42]

I’m glad I’m not the only person incredibly underwhelmed by the reveal. I’ll take being in the tiny minority.

Enjoy it KH fans, shame I can’t join you in your excitement

 

[ARandomZoomer]

Oh shoot this thread opened again, guess I'll repost my reactions here then lol whoops
-
God this was an ordeal lol. I had an exam at the exact same time as the presentation this morning, and of course I knew trying to look up the presentation afterwards would only result in spoilers, so I had to have a friend stream the dang thing to me through Discord. But you know what it was worth it! That trailer was so vague and I seriously thought the little ember would lead to Cinderace. As much as I'm not a Cinderace doomer I am definitely glad it was Sora instead, I don't think anyone could be mad about an inclusion as huge and beloved as that.

That said I'm kinda thinking I would have preferred Doomguy in the end

Sora's moveset looks WILD dudes. He will never ever be gimped with a recovery like that. But also it doesn't seem like he'll be toxic because he's lightweight and has a shorter reach than a lot of other sword wielders. Definitely gonna be near top tier with mobility like that. Heck, Yoshi is my main to this day partially because I love his incredible air mobility, so maybe Sora will click with me. In the same competitive vein, I do have fears that Sora's stage will be ignored because it's too similar to hazardless Smashville. We need more stages in this game competitive community! If I see PS2 one more time I'll lose it! Also the rubberhose alternate costume might be the only one I'll ever use it's so good.

I'm a little disappointed there's no real Disney content in this pack though. How could they not include Donald and Goofy? I mean it's Donald and Goofy! The whole point of Kingdom Hearts could be said to be friendship and you don't include Sora's best friend smh.

We finally get an explanation for what "realizable" meant for Bayonetta's ballot win in Smash 4. Makes sense to me lol, Disney makes everything a little less realizable don't they? I'm guessing in the end that the top 10 of the ballot was some combination of Sora, Bayonetta, King K. Rool, and then allll the cut characters from previous Smash games.

Kingdom Hearts coming to Switch is for sure the most underrated announcement to me here. I'm sure as hell not getting a PS5 anytime soon lol so I'll finally be albe to experience the series I've heard about for years and years. I hope only KHIII is cloud gaming though, since that's just annoying.

That round of numbers at the end pretty much confirms to me we'll be getting no Spirit Board events that add new games to the mix, which is sad, but there's a certain weight off my shoulders knowing that SSBU is truly and finally done. I just hope it means we'll be supported with balance patches for a while. And I hope that you've all generally enjoyed yourselves for the past three and a half years! Speculating had its wild ups and downs, but it was an exhilarating ride throughout for sure. Hope this place at least stays open til the 18th or something.

Ah yes I can finally play KH3 now. I love the series but it has been a pain trying to keep up with every title

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

A moment of Silence for Ultimates big loser.

 

[MrJudd]

#ThankYouSakurai というハッシュタグがトレンドに上がっており､拝見していました｡
感謝するのはこちらの方です本当に｡
多くのかたの支えあっての結果です!

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 5, 2021

“The hashtag is on the trend and I was watching it.
This is the one who is really grateful.
It is the result of the support of many people!”

Moments like these are what make things worth it for me #ThankYouSakurai

 

[Shroob]

The Assist Trophy question will never be answered

At least, not in Ultimate it won't.



Eh, that's tomorrow's problem anyway.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Would Sora fit the second chance theory?

Min Min, Pyra/Mythra - Sakurai wanted an ARMS and XC2 character in but they were too late for base roster
Kazuya - Sakurai wanted a Tekken rep in Smash 4. Initially wanted Heihachi, but Kazuya has the devil gene which made for a more robust moveset
Sephiroth - to fix the lack of FF7 content in base
Steve, Sora - extremely popular, only got to add them in now, due to either technical considerations (the former) or tricky negotiations (the latter)

 

[Nekoo]

Would Sora fit the second chance theory?

Min Min, Pyra/Mythra - Sakurai wanted an ARMS and XC2 character in but they were too late for base roster
Kazuya - Sakurai wanted a Tekken rep in Smash 4. Initially went with Heihachi, but Kazuya has the devil gene which made for a more robust moveset
Sephiroth - to fix the lack of FF7 content in base
Steve, Sora - extremely popular, only got to add them in now, due to either technical considerations (the former) or tricky negotiations (the latter)

Sora seemingly has been tried since Smash 4, since Sakurai and Iwata decided to hide the results and start negociation for him.
So I'm sure he does, which would ALSO make Imran's old claim true, that Nintendo DID try for Sora both for Smash 4 AND Base Ultimate

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Who would have thought that Square Exix would be the third party the most characters (and the first one to have two in the same DLC cycle)?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who would have thought that Square Exix would be the third party the most characters (and the first one to have two in the same DLC cycle).

Sora’s counted as Disney tho isn’t he? Despite the lack of Disney content otherwise

 

[RoboFist]

Would Sora fit the second chance theory?

Min Min, Pyra/Mythra - Sakurai wanted an ARMS and XC2 character in but they were too late for base roster
Kazuya - Sakurai wanted a Tekken rep in Smash 4. Initially wanted Heihachi, but Kazuya has the devil gene which made for a more robust moveset
Sephiroth - to fix the lack of FF7 content in base
Steve, Sora - extremely popular, only got to add them in now, due to either technical considerations (the former) or tricky negotiations (the latter)

I'd say the long-awaited winner of the Smash Ballot finally joining the roster definitely fits Second Chance Theory.

This will get lost in the shuffle, but I want to say that I honestly believe this is exactly how Sakurai wanted to wrap up Ultimate. We'll argue all day/week, but I think it all boils down to this right here:

The Ballot was his and Iwata's idea, but they couldn't get the most wanted character in Smash 4. Iwata entrusted Sakurai to create the best Smash game he possibly could, but passed thinking the Ballot's top spot would always be unobtainable. What better way for Sakurai to end this magnum opus and honor his late friend and mentor by doing his damnedest to finally put in the number one requested character in the world? To grant one last huge dream for the game?

The smile on his face when talking about making it all happen warmed my heart. Like, we want to talk about the thesis of this entire game, "Everyone is Here"? This is it, regardless of whether or not you agree. To the best of his ability, this man made as many dreams come true as possible. I can only imagine how proud Iwata would've been seeing Sakurai do all of this, especially today.

I didn't think Sora was possible, and here I am eating my words for, like, the third time this game. The fact that Ridley, Steve, and Sora are all playable in this game alongside Banjo and Simon and Sephiroth is bordering on miraculous. And I'm elated. I'm over the f***ing moon to have been so wrong.

(And honestly, Doom Slayer Mii costume was such a huge win for me. After Kazuya, I figured he wouldn't get in, but his "deluxe" costume is exactly what I wanted and I couldn't be happier...my sincerest sympathies to Halo fans, truely, but I'm personally very relieved they went with Doomguy instead)

What a way to end it all. There could've been more, sure. Of course. There could always be more. And there are weird omissions and noticeable absences. But ending on this triumphant of a high note for both fans and Sakurai himself just feels the right kind of magical.

Like...come on. After over a decade of hard work, look how happy, proud, and accomplished he looks! How can you look at that face and all the work he's done and unironically say Ultimate is now ruined because of Sora?

Go get some sleep, you mad genius.

 

[MrJudd]

Also, why did Nintendo put me in the game? I thought my contract had fallen through... (look at my username if you don't get the joke)

 

[Thermithral]

And so it ends.

I'm not really interested in Kingdom Hearts, and to be honest after what Disney has done to Star Wars I have no interest in giving them money in any medium, but I am glad for any of the fans of Sora that they can play as him. Aside from the fact edge guarding him as Ridley looks like it will eb a nightmare, he looks fun. The image of shaking hands with Mario was very nice at the end (mainly because for once Mario survived a Smash trailer completely undamaged)

The revelation Bayonetta did not win the Smash ballot for the Wii U/ 3DS game is interesting, and makes me wonder about other characters. I would love to see how the Cunning God of Death placed on it, despite how many times he was de confirmed during that time. (I am not saying I would have preferred Ridley to Bayonetta, but I certainly am thinking it loudly.)

Also, the only song I know from Kingdom Hearts is, Simple and Clean, so I thought it was odd it was not in the pack. Is there some issue getting the license for that song or some other reason it might not be included? Honestly I associate what little I know about the series with that song.

 

[CureParfait]

Would Sora fit the second chance theory?

Min Min, Pyra/Mythra - Sakurai wanted an ARMS and XC2 character in but they were too late for base roster
Kazuya - Sakurai wanted a Tekken rep in Smash 4. Initially wanted Heihachi, but Kazuya has the devil gene which made for a more robust moveset
Sephiroth - to fix the lack of FF7 content in base
Steve, Sora - extremely popular, only got to add them in now, due to either technical considerations (the former) or tricky negotiations (the latter)

I think he does fit the second chance theory if we go by that.

 

[TheCJBrine]

NO CHEATERS


Those ****ers are gonna sell though and correct me if I'm wrong but you can just use the same mold for both.

Alex’s mold is slightly different, but only slightly (skinnier arms), so yeah pretty easy/low cost to make for big bucks.

I think Mojang is easygoing with most things anyway.

 

[Cyberfire]

Not looking forward to the next game's roster speculation.
After how amazing Ultimate ended up being, unless we get an "everyone is here" again, people are gonna be dying to have all of these characters back. DLC discussion will be dominated with veterans.

Yeah, I just hope the next one is many years away so we can just enjoy this roster for as long as possible. I won't be ready for another round of this for a long time.

 

[volbound1700]

Sora’s counted as Disney tho isn’t he? Despite the lack of Disney content otherwise

Reading it up on the IP rights, it seems like you are right. The only public communication on the matter was from Disney indicating that they owned IP rights over Sora.

He might be mutually owned under a mutual NDA at best. https://unlikely-characters-for-smash.fandom.com/wiki/Sora_(Kingdom_Hearts)