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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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The Rhythm Theif

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Thats all it is with mostly everyone.
Well, not really. Most don't want Sora because "wAaAh! AnOtHeR aNiMe SwOrDsMaN! WAAAAAAAA".

As for me, the reason why I don't want Sora because Disney is because Disney already said no to Sora being in Smash. If Sora gets in, his Final Smash will most likely involve Donald and Goofy...


...which are Disney characters.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Well, not really. Most don't want Sora because "wAaAh! AnOtHeR aNiMe SwOrDsMaN! WAAAAAAAA".

As for me, the reason why I don't want Sora because Disney is because Disney already said no to Sora being in Smash. If Sora gets in, his Final Smash will most likely involve Donald and Goofy...


...which are Disney characters.
Not a very unique argument either, but a valid and understandable one nonetheless
 

Dinoman96

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You are 100% correct though, I don't understand why that was ever brought up as a possibility.
Because people were still trying to rationalize Spring Man being playable in some way.

Obviously Nintendo wouldn't of done the ARMS guessing game thing if it was just gonna be Spring Man and Spring Man alone, so the choices left were either that it was gonna be a Koopalings/Hero deal with SM as the default but with other ARMS fighters as skins, or well, just a "left field" non-traditional choice like Min Min, which is what we got.
 
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RileyXY1

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Well, not really. Most don't want Sora because "wAaAh! AnOtHeR aNiMe SwOrDsMaN! WAAAAAAAA".

As for me, the reason why I don't want Sora because Disney is because Disney already said no to Sora being in Smash. If Sora gets in, his Final Smash will most likely involve Donald and Goofy...


...which are Disney characters.
And that gets me concerned because Disney in Smash might open the floodgates to non-video game characters in Smash. Once Pandora's Box is opened it can never be closed again.
 

Momotsuki

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I think three Spring Man alts, three Ribbon Girl alts, and two Springtron alts could have worked if they had wanted to go that route, which, y'know, they did not.
The idea that we'd get eight different ARMS fighters as alts for one another was silly sauce though. Come on, now.
 
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WeirdChillFever

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Would choosing another character have helped make the ARMS character less annoying? I can imagine that the reflector kick and the dragon laser make Min Min more irritating to face, so maybe Spring Man wouldn’t have been so agitating
 

Jondolio

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Not really a Sora fan but I don't think him getting in will open the floodgates to non-video game characters getting into Smash
He is a video game character after all
 

CapitaineCrash

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It could‘ve worked….

….provided the chosen fighters were Spring Man and Spring-tron

Four fighters in one wouldn’t have been impossible in theory, but there‘s not really four fighters that match enough to work aside from maybe Spring Man, Ribbon Girl, Ninjara and Min Min
Even Ninjara as a skin of Spring man is a pretty big stretch (no puns). Ninjara's gimmick is that he disappear in smokes when he dash and that he teleports a bit when blocking. You would either need to give this gimmick to Spring man (which wouldn't make sense) or remove this gimmick completely which would make playing as Ninjara not really feeling like him.
 

Gengar84

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You are 100% correct though, I don't understand why that was ever brought up as a possibility.
It makes sense from an outsider’s perspective to be honest. The ARMS characters have their own unique moves but they all have the same basic gimmick of stretchy arms (aside from Twintelle). For someone not familiar with the games, it’s easy to see why it made sense to them. Besides, the Koopa Kids and Bowser Jr. all played very differently from each other in their home games but they were still made as alts of each other.
 
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GilTheGreat19

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I wasn’t on SmashBoards when y’all speculated between the ARMS guessing game and the Min Min reveal
But what ARMS character did y’all hope it’d be? I said it before but I was rooting for Kid Cobra.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Imagine the situation of going against a frustrating ARMS character but it was instead Lola Pop. You just know your friends would never let you live it down if they saw it.

“That much trouble against this character? I guess this this match really is clown vs clown.”
 

Momotsuki

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I strongly dislike Sora and Kingdom Hearts, so naturally I don't like the idea of him in Smash very much. But considering the amount of people that do want him, I struggle to be that averse to his inclusion. I can't sit here and act like the second-hand hype wouldn't set in.
I'd just hope he'd be free of any Disney stuff. Which I've had Sora supporters tell me is entirely doable.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Min Min did nothing for me, really. Cool character, but the only two I had any real interest in were Spring Man(one of the two mascots) and Dr. Coyle.

Anyway, I'm still glad the series got a full character~
 

Lyncario

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He is owned by a non-video game company (Disney). Disney getting a character in Smash might encourage other non-video game companies to get their characters in Smash.
Scorpion is owned by NeitherRealm Studios. NeitherRealm Studios are owned by a non-video game company (Warner Bros). Warner Bros getting a character in Smash might encourage other non-video game companies to get their characters in Smash.

Do you hear how stupid you sounded now?

Also Microsoft isn't a video game company at first either, and it's not even their first focus, and they still have 2 characters in Smash, both of them that got in the dlc cycle of this game.
 

Dukefire

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5 days remaining

Min Min: The Ramen Bomber from the Mintendo Noodle House

After months of speculating of which ARMS character is going to be chosen, our answer was Min Min. The character upgraded from base spirit and it was either her or ninjara.
 

SKX31

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Hey

Could be worse


The west is a lot more neutral to Min Min than Japan is. Japan hates her after she made online hell.
Can confirm, I'll get into that in more detail in the writeup.

5 days remaining

Min Min: The Ramen Bomber from the Mintendo Noodle House

After months of speculating of which ARMS character is going to be chosen, our answer was Min Min. The character upgraded from base spirit and it was either her or ninjara.

:ultminmin . Yabuki's favored daughter and one of the most popular ARMS characters overall. The guessing game. Broke the Spirit assertion.

"謝謝!" ("Thank you!")

She was initially met with quite a lot of praise and interest (partly since the guessing game was finally over and done with, but also since her trailer came as a bit of a fresh air) although the reception to the gameplay seemed lukewarm amongst more casual fans. Her positive reception has since petered out a bit due to how her gameplay's been recieved - especially in Japan - but her inclusion gave ARMS some much needed momentum. Especially in the West where Nintendo had gone AWOL on promoting that game at all before the guessing game and Min Min's reveal.

Her competitive successes followed soon after her release: while the reaction from pros was initially mixed quite a few saw immense potential with her. It wasn't long before Protobanham - a Japanese top level talent known for his aggressive Lucina - picked her up alongside his Lucina and became Min Min's standard bearer quickly. Protobanham even won the Japanese supermajor Kagaribi 4 with mainly Min Min, making her the first FP2 character to take home a supermajor. Stateside, she has two prominent players: Dabuz and Pink Fresh*. The former added her to his character arsenal alongside his Olimar and Rosalina. While Dabuz is shaking off some rust he's gotten some promising results with her as well. Pink Fresh has gotten really close to upsetting several prominent players - MKLeo included - with Min Min and he's well known for developing another certain character: :4bayonetta:. Currently Min Min's seen as a "top tier gate keeper" generally and has quite a lot of notable players behind her.

Yeah, I've gotta get to this: Why she is hated in Japan. Her competitive results and really polarized matchup spread are two reasons, especially since Japan's competitive scene does not play for money generally (old gambling laws and their lingering effects) and thus has a lot more character specialists. Arguably the biggest reason is online though: Not only has Japanese streamers like MKR Channel clickbaited their way into showing off stuff like the Scholar's Mate (B-Throw at ledge -> Dragon Laser, which could OHKO back when she released), she quickly became pretty infamous for edgeguarding the ledge with zero commitment. I'm pretty damn sure it's why Sakurai and co. nerfed the time she can hold charged Smashes and Dragon Laser's knockback. Her online successes extend to the more Serious Business side where her players have seen extremely strong results in the Japanese ladder Smashmate.

It's legit to the point where Protobanham is worried about her getting additional nerfs, as he admitted when Larry Lurr interviewed him.

Her moveset is extremely potent, and her Specials plus her unique mechanics fuel this. She has Mega Man's jab-while-walking / jumping trait and different ARMS attached to the A / B buttons respectively, allowing her to approach, retreat or react to opponents with impunity. ARMS Change, her Down B, is active on Frame 1 - allowing her to swap between RamRam, Dragon and Megawatt freely to help complement her always-Dragon left ARM. RamRam's arc excels at catching jumps, discombobulating reckless approaches and edgeguarding really safely, Dragon not only gets powered up by successful grabs, but its Laser is excellent at pushing opponents further back should she need it. Megawatt is slow and relatively short-ranged but lingers for seemingly ever and is the strongest ARM by none, making it very good at KOing. ARMS Jump - her grounded Up B - is a good if commital way to follow others aerial approaches or retreat, while ARMS Hook is a tether recovery that can kill surprisingly early.

Her remaining normals consist of kicks, and they complement her ARMS really well. She has legit one of the best anti-air capabilities in the game, not just thanks to her ARMS but also since her U-Tilt is really quick, her Up-Smash is a contender for the best Up Smash in the game period. Besides what Cutie Gwen said, that Up Smash is as fast as Fox's - and pre-nerf it was faster than Fox's. Wat. Dash Attack and D-Tilt are good at clearing the way or even starting combos situationally. She also has a strong sets of grabs and throws - not just since her reach is impressive, but also since B-Throw in particular sends at a particularily favorable angle for her.

Min Min's weaknesses do keep her from being overwhelming. She has a really, really bad disadvantage state - her only defensive options once she's hit is to situationally N-Air / D-Air or airdodge. Her Up B also has pretty good vertical reach - but not a whole lot of horizontal reach. She's as such extremely vurnerable to getting comboed / juggled / carried horizontally towards the blast zone. Due to her more unique traits she is much more at risk of move staling than most characters, and she can have trouble with characters that have multiple fast projectiles or who can safely clank through her ARMS. Since her ARMS are relatively committal - even if she can throw out two - she has to play carefully vs. characters who can close in quickly on her. While she can cover most cardinal directions extremely well, she has a massive blindspot diagonally below here.

Casually she's in a pretty weird place. FFAs pose more of an issue to her since there she has to worry about not just more opponents potentially ganging up on her, but also items, ATs and whatnot blowing her up. While her ARMS allow her to claim the corner the character's atypical control scheme can also cause some major hiccups to newcomers just looking to try her out. Still, she can work within a FFA environment if she's played carefully.

Min Min's Challenger Pack is pretty solid. I'm kinda wondering why they didn't go with Min Min's home stag- Oh wait, maybe it was the percieved need to market ARMS again that made Spring Stadium the choice. We'll have to see. Anyhow, it can be a fun casual stage with the springs and what not, my only real issue are the pillars that can prevent kills or even cause janky ones. The music likewise is really good, no complaints there. The only missing Spirit is Dr. Coyle if you ask me - otherwise they did a really great job showcasing ARMS' colorful cast of characters.

All in all, she's a very solid if polarizing character - but then again, any ARMS character would be polarizing just by the nature of ARMS itself. She's definetely happy to be here (especially after being vaporized by Galeem and turned into paper) and that is what counts in the end.

min-min.jpg

(Weird character interaction sidenote: Min Min has some weird interactions vs. characters that excel in the air - kinda mirroring ARMS' own gameplay where the aerial battles tend to be surprisingly extensive. :ultpit: / :ultdarkpit: are really noticeable cases of this, but :ultyoshi: and :ultgnw: can also partake in extended aerial battles with her and result in some really volatile outcomes.)

(Yeah, she can be annoying to fight against - but a small tip I can give to help make things a bit easier is to try and be unpredictable in your approaches as possible, and she in particular punishes burnt double jumps like no tomorrow. Save your double jumps, they're gonna be needed.)

*(Thanks NotLiquid - without your posts in the competitive thread I would not have known that Pink Fresh did this well with the character before his near-upsets.)
 
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CommanderZaktan

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I have a question. Did Bethesda told the fans to watch the direct from last week? Because I found this.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
I asked him, but he couldn't find it. Can anyone find the post? Because there was nothing Bethesda related stuff in that direct.
 

Staarih

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Imagine the situation of going against a frustrating ARMS character but it was instead Lola Pop. You just know your friends would never let you live it down if they saw it.

“That much trouble against this character? I guess this this match really is clown vs clown.”
The mention of Lola Pop makes me sad none of the post-release characters from ARMS got any representation in Smash (unless you count Max Brass). Dr. Coyle should've been a given considering her status in ARMS.

Anyway, Min Min is my favorite Smash Ultimate DLC character, so yeah.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I wasn’t on SmashBoards when y’all speculated between the ARMS guessing game and the Min Min reveal
But what ARMS character did y’all hope it’d be? I said it before but I was rooting for Kid Cobra.
Max Brass or Dr. Coyle mostly. They’d definitely have a more unique appeal to them and are a pretty big deal in-game regardless of who you like to play as.

Even Ninjara as a skin of Spring man is a pretty big stretch (no puns). Ninjara's gimmick is that he disappear in smokes when he dash and that he teleports a bit when blocking. You would either need to give this gimmick to Spring man (which wouldn't make sense) or remove this gimmick completely which would make playing as Ninjara not really feeling like him.
Yeah it’d be a massive stretch, but the point is that it wouldn’t be impossible to have say, Spring Man and Ribbon Girl as alts, but that once the gimmicks of the characters don’t overlap with the gimmicks of Smash (like double jumps or the ability to kick) it’d be harder to justify.

Not really a Sora fan but I don't think him getting in will open the floodgates to non-video game characters getting into Smash
He is a video game character after all
There’s multiple sides to it. Some say that, as Sora is Disney-owned, it’d be a breach to even have Sora in Smash by himself, with which I disagree since Sora is much different and bigger than a technical fluke like “Technically the Cars game released first”. Actually, Steve and Banjo being in Smash didn’t have Bill Gates swinging at the door either in a cantankerous demand to add Clippy, so I assume having Sora will be fine without the masses suddenly clamoring for Scrooge McDuck (except me, I will be obnoxious like that)
There’s also a side that says “You can’t have Sora without Mickey/Donald/Goofy, with which I also don’t agree (Sora can definitely do without the Disney content) but I very much understand that having Donald Duck in Smash isn’t exactly in line with the spirit of the series.
 
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Gorgonzales

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I like Min Min. Mostly because I can play like a degenerate on Temple as her, but she's a great character if you want to be an arsehole. I like ARMS and I like her design.
 

RileyXY1

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Scorpion is owned by NeitherRealm Studios. NeitherRealm Studios are owned by a non-video game company (Warner Bros). Warner Bros getting a character in Smash might encourage other non-video game companies to get their characters in Smash.

Do you hear how stupid you sounded now?

Also Microsoft isn't a video game company at first either, and it's not even their first focus, and they still have 2 characters in Smash, both of them that got in the dlc cycle of this game.
Mortal Kombat is not a series centered around non-video game characters, while Kingdom Hearts is. It's a series where you travel to various worlds based on Disney movies, and it's hard to represent the series without Disney characters.
 

Jondolio

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I have a question. Did Bethesda told the fans to watch the direct from last week? Because I found this.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
I asked him, but he couldn't find it. Can anyone find the post? Because there was nothing Bethesda related stuff in that direct.
I can't be bothered to check but this isn't the first time Doom fans pulled **** like this
I remember a tweet with a video that got taken down that claimed Doomguy is in before E3. Those people don't understand the meaning of tempering their expectations, I should know since I once got dogpiled for calling them out on that.
 

Sucumbio

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I strongly dislike Sora and Kingdom Hearts, so naturally I don't like the idea of him in Smash very much. But considering the amount of people that do want him, I struggle to be that averse to his inclusion. I can't sit here and act like the second-hand hype wouldn't set in.
I'd just hope he'd be free of any Disney stuff. Which I've had Sora supporters tell me is entirely doable.
I also did not enjoy KH. I think my biggest problem was, at least in the original title, I spent the first hour of play doing absolutely nothing lol like the game just seemed to be really slow in comparison to say, final Fantasy 6 where you're thrust into action immediately and the ride doesn't stop until you're all the way past Figaro. The IDEA of mixing Square and Disney was pretty cool to me which is why I borrowed the game from my friend but I could only play it for a day before I was like nah going back to FF12 thx.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I can't be bothered to check but this isn't the first time Doom fans pulled **** like this
I remember a tweet with a video that got taken down that claimed Doomguy is in before E3. Those people don't understand the meaning of tempering their expectations, I should know since I once got dogpiled for calling them out on that.
Didn’t they also try to claim Doomguy was the reveal for this E3? In the end it was a fan made trailer that got copyright claimed iirc (not official)
 

WeirdChillFever

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Of our two Final Fantasy reps, none of them brought any substantial content from outside the seventh entry in the series. As much as I love Spirit Boards, you can, very sadly, encounter eleven people in the series that aren’t Donald Duck, so it’s not like a Challenger Pack entails all the content available in a series.
 
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Jondolio

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Didn’t they also try to claim Doomguy was the reveal for this E3? In the end it was a fan made trailer that got copyright claimed iirc (not official)
I don't know the exact details since I'm not on twitter and only saw that tweet in an article, but from what I understand that's basically what happened.
Smash Twitter is a circus but Doom fans are some of the biggest clowns there by far.
 

Momotsuki

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For what it's worth, Cloud and Sephiroth are explicitly FF7 reps, rather than Final Fantasy reps in general. I believe it's the only "universe" in Smash to be like that, but I could be wrong...

Maybe it's that the numbered Final Fantasy games are usually very distant from one another, or maybe it's a licensing kerfuffle. Maybe a bit of both?
 
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CapitaineCrash

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For what it's worth, Cloud and Sephiroth are explicitly FF7 reps, rather than Final Fantasy reps in general. I believe it's the only "universe" in Smash to be like that, but I could be wrong...
Joker was announced as the Persona 5 universe rep and Hero as the Dragon quest 11 S echoes of an elusive age definitive edition universe rep (what a title). That being said they do have content from other games (while the only FF content that isn't explicetely from FF7 is the Chocobo mii costume (although Chocobo do appear in FF7).


I have a question. Did Bethesda told the fans to watch the direct from last week? Because I found this.
There was a problem fetching the tweet
I asked him, but he couldn't find it. Can anyone find the post? Because there was nothing Bethesda related stuff in that direct.
I'm pretty sure this is fake. If it was true it would have been heavily shared before the direct, not almost a week after.
 
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