Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Í just think most scrimblo characters are really boring design wise.

Why is there some weird stuff on your "I"?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...I kinda believe third party miis, unlike first party ones, won’t ever become playable...

Hmm...I don't think this is a hard rule (you'd be hard pressed to convince me that Tails will never be playable for any reason), but I would agree that most of the 3rd party Mii Costumes are of characters they'll probably never pick by virtue of how 1st party characters are handled. My thoughts would be:

Spoiler

Are in the game:

• Erdrick

Will probably show up eventually:

• Akira
• Bomberman
• Dante
• Dragonborn (The existence of this costume does confirm that they would be called Dragonborn and not Dovakiin, so there's that as well.)
• Heihachi
• Monster Hunter
• Knuckles
• Sans
• Tails
• Mega Man X
• Zero

Maybe as an alternate costume?:

• Altaïr

Echo Fighter:

• Proto Man

Could show up, but is a huge wild card:

• Arthur
• Chocobo
• Felyne
• Lloyd (It really depends; If they go with a new protagonist first, then it's safe to assume he's never getting in)
• Nakoruru
• Rabbid (In some form)
• Shantae
• Slime
• Travis
• Vault Boy

Probably not:

• Iori
• Jacky
• Rathalos

Yup, never:

• Creeper
• Cuphead
• Geno
• MegaMan.EXE
• Morgana
• Makoto
• Yu
• Pig
• Ryo
• Teddie
• Veronica

I genuinely don't know:

• Gil
• Goemon

Not a character:

• Diamond Armour
• Martial Artist

 

[Jondolio]

Why is there some weird stuff on your "I"?

I have no clue

 

[Arcanir]

As a Ridley player, I pray he eventually gets a better Dair and Higher Weight. Those two seemingly minor things are honestly the biggest reasons playing him is a chore at times.

Still can’t stop playing him though.

Honestly, the weight issue is a bit overexaggerated as we've had characters who are lighter then Ridley like Smash 4 Mewtwo and Sephiroth or the same size like ROB have stronger presence in the meta then Ridley, and neither are exactly small characters either. He would appreciate having more, but it's not the big thing holding him back and would honestly just be a baid-aid at best.

The bigger things Ridley would like fixed are his Recovery and not being able to get out of disadvantage all that well. Ridley is a character that thrives on having good advantage based on his design, but it's hard to have that when it feels like you're being suffocated trying to get back to that. His Recovery as mentioned before is just too limited as you know how he'll recover and there's not a lot he can do to mix it up, so if a player understands that they can either KO him or at least get some good damage before he gets back. The second point is related, but also has some exclusive issues as Ridley doesn't have great options to get out of shield or juggling, with the latter in particular being bad since DAir is awful as you said and his other options are more limited in dealing with that scenario.

If you address those issues he'd become better since he can have more opportunities to use his strong points and rack up damage like he wants.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I still remember watching the E3 Presentation that day and the Youtube chat was filled with "Worst character ever" and "Smash is ruined" comments the second they were revealed.


I also remember turning off the Youtube Chat for the remainder of the stream and for future Directs for my sanity as well.

Well, get ready to lock the chat down like a Keter-class SCP next week, no matter who’s revealed, all hell‘s gonna break loose.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Well, get ready to lock the chat down like a Keter-class SCP next week, no matter who’s revealed, all hell‘s gonna break loose.

Oh yeah, I don't really bother with the Youtube chat in Directs anymore anyways, I figured I'd rather watch the content in full screen since the trade off was a much higher quality experience in both ways (bigger screen for the Direct itself, no brain poisoning from Youtube comments) regardless.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Why is there some weird stuff on your "I"?

It's an accent mark. Not sure how one accidentally types an accented character, but that's what it is.

Crash to me is kind of what they could have gone with instead of Banjo and Kazooie and in fact who I expected for that pass. I didn't play either game but was like oh a furry platform character is that cra.... No its Banjo and Kazooie and I had to look him up to even know who the heck they were lol.

Long point short crash is too similar imho.

He's really not though. Crash Bandicoot and Banjo & Kazooie have entirely different personalities, playstyles, gimmicks, settings, and musical styles.

The fact that you have to generalize them as "furry platformer characters" in order to say that they're extremely similar should be a huge tell as to the fact that they're really not.

 

[N3ON]

Crash to me is kind of what they could have gone with instead of Banjo and Kazooie and in fact who I expected for that pass. I didn't play either game but was like oh a furry platform character is that cra.... No its Banjo and Kazooie and I had to look him up to even know who the heck they were lol.

Long point short crash is too similar imho.

You must have had a rough time during the animal mascot days of the 90s.

This really is surface level stuff though. It's the same as people who look at Marth and Shulk and go

 

[Jondolio]

It's less that I think Crash and Banjo are "the same" and more that I just find Crash kind of boring to look at. It's just my personal preference.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

…that said I could actually go for an image/video leak rn

I can make an Octoling one for ya if you want

 

[N3ON]

You know what's wild? For Smash, this

Tune in 9/23 at 3 p.m. PT for a #NintendoDirect livestream featuring roughly 40 minutes of information focused mainly on #NintendoSwitch games launching this winter. pic.twitter.com/feHBEKfHPG

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 22, 2021

Was the announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement

We really are a bunch of suckers, lol.

 

[Jondolio]

You know what's wild? For Smash, this

Tune in 9/23 at 3 p.m. PT for a #NintendoDirect livestream featuring roughly 40 minutes of information focused mainly on #NintendoSwitch games launching this winter. pic.twitter.com/feHBEKfHPG

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 22, 2021

Was the announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement

We really are a bunch of suckers, lol.

I... don't think I can try to figure out what this means without having a stroke
Could you please explain?

 

[Ivander]

Well, get ready to lock the chat down like a Keter-class SCP next week, no matter who’s revealed, all hell‘s gonna break loose.

You do not recognize the bodies in the unqualified section.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's less that I think Crash and Banjo are "the same" and more that I just find Crash kind of boring to look at. It's just my personal preference.

I'm fine with finding the simplistic designs of (mostly the 3D) platformer characters or disliking how RPGs tend to overdesign their anime swordsmen, I just think trying to equivilate them is a fool's errand. There's a reason why "ew anime sword fighter" often becomes a meme as soon as its brought out of the context of Fire Emblem; Obviously Fire Emblem relies on nuance to differentiate their characters more than most of the other series in the game, but Marth != Shulk != Cloud != Hero, and won't be too terribly similar to potential newcomers like Lloyd, Sora, or leaving the RPG realm, Sol, or Dante.

It's kind of a shame that the most visible counterarguments to this line of thinking are stuff like "OK but Lloyd has 2 swords" and "but the Keyblade isn't actually a sword" since it kind of misses the point on both fronts:

• These are superficial things about the character and aren't the actual qualities make them stand out from the others as memey as they are.
• The part of the argument that actually is valid (simply being tired of tropes that do tend to overlap with these kinds of characters, or even just the type of art style, and wanting something that doesn't have these traits) isn't actually addressed.

 

[Nekoo]

You know what's wild? For Smash, this

Tune in 9/23 at 3 p.m. PT for a #NintendoDirect livestream featuring roughly 40 minutes of information focused mainly on #NintendoSwitch games launching this winter. pic.twitter.com/feHBEKfHPG

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) September 22, 2021

Was the announcement of an announcement of an announcement of an announcement

We really are a bunch of suckers, lol.

So basically Nintendo did an Atlus?

SMTV protag confirmed

 

[N3ON]

I... don't think I can try to figure out what this means without having a stroke
Could you please explain?

Tweet -> Direct -> Presentation -> Release date

 

[Jondolio]

I'm fine with finding the simplistic designs of (mostly the 3D) platformer characters or disliking how RPGs tend to overdesign their anime swordsmen, I just think trying to equivilate them is a fool's errand. There's a reason why "ew anime sword fighter" often becomes a meme as soon as its brought out of the context of Fire Emblem; Obviously Fire Emblem relies on nuance to differentiate their characters more than most of the other series in the game, but Marth != Shulk != Cloud != Hero, and won't be too terribly similar to potential newcomers like Lloyd, Sora, or leaving the RPG realm, Sol, or Dante.

It's kind of a shame that the most visible counterarguments to this line of thinking are stuff like "OK but Lloyd has 2 swords" and "but the Keyblade isn't actually a sword" since it kind of misses the point on both fronts:

• These are superficial things about the character and aren't the actual qualities make them stand out from the others as memey as they are.
• The part of the argument that actually is valid (simply being tired of tropes that do tend to overlap with these kinds of characters, or even just the type of art style, and wanting something that doesn't have these traits) isn't actually addressed.

I mean... It's not like I was making the comparison to begin with. I just said I find Crash boring when compared to other characters. I don't actually have anything against the ol' bandicoot aside from the company that owns him and not liking his first game at all, and I agree that characters should be judged by their own merit rather than dismissed for having similar artstyles to other characters, but it doesn't change the fact Crash's design bores me to tears.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean... It's not like I was making the comparison to begin with.

Oh I know, and I was going to make that clear before I went off on a tangent and then forgot.

EDIT: Sorry about that.

 

[Sucumbio]

You must have had a rough time during the animal mascot days of the 90s.

This really is surface level stuff though. It's the same as people who look at Marth and Shulk and go

Yeah pretty much. I wrote off crash as being Sony's attempt at making a platforming mascot to compete with Mario and Sonic. Which immediately made me ignore him and his games. With Banjo it was more I ignored just about everything on the n64 except goldeneye cause that's all we played on it.. My time in gaming until probably 2004 really was strictly resident evil, castlevania, mega man, final fantasy and Tekken. It wouldn't be until my then fiance would introduce me to the GameCube that I'd branch out more (she had to convince me the gc was even a worthwhile system due to my strong bias toward Sony). But I'm glad she did because almost 2 decades later I'm much more interested in Nintendo than I think I even was during the nes days.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

For clarity, Touhou's owned by Team Shanghai Alice. Which is ironic, because it's not a team (There's only one guy), it's not based in Shanghai (It's presumably somewhere in Japan), and nobody is named Alice (The one guy is ZUN, real name Jun'ya Ota).

“You’re taking it too literally. Or… not… literally enough?” -TFS Goku Black

 

[Theguy123]

9 more days till we officially know if M theory and mute theory are legit or not.

M theory is probably not legit since I’d have thought if we were getting an M rated character/series it would’ve come in the Nintendo direct but anything’s possible I guess.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

9 more days till we officially know if M theory and mute theory are legit or not.

M theory is probably not legit since I’d have thought if we were getting an M rated character/series it would’ve come in the Nintendo direct but anything’s possible I guess.

What do you think of mute theory and also no alts theory?

i still think it doesn’t have to end on a perfect square

 

[Theguy123]

What do you think of mute theory and also no alts theory?

i still think it doesn’t have to end on a perfect square

mute theory I think is just fake. It’s a nice theory and very interesting but i personally don’t believe in it since they added a new separate space for cloud’s new final smash voice which shows they can alt the voice section whenever they want.

as for alt theory I’ve never heard that before. That’s interesting. I’d love to hear more about alt theory

 

[Rie Sonomura]

mute theory I think is just fake. It’s a nice theory and very interesting but i personally don’t believe in it since they added a new separate space for cloud’s new final smash voice which shows they can alt the voice section whenever they want.

as for alt theory I’ve never heard that before. That’s interesting. I’d love to hear more about alt theory

There’s only one fighter spirit left implying no alts

that’s how it was last I checked at least

 

[Theguy123]

There’s only one fighter spirit left implying no alts

that’s how it was last I checked at least

ohh now they you mention it I think I’ve heard people bring that up before. Just never knew it was called alt theory. That one might be more plausible than mute theory if I’m honest but they can still change things up. We’ve seen it with new spirit releases all the time.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

ohh now they you mention it I think I’ve heard people bring that up before. Just never knew it was called alt theory. That one might be more plausible than mute theory if I’m honest but they can still change things up. We’ve seen it with new spirit releases all the time.

Maybe it’s a two in one spirit for both alts?

like uh say the last fighter is Octoling from Octo Expansion

here’s the official Spirit artwork for Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy in base game

Either one of these below could be “Octoling Girl & Octoling Boy (Fighter)”:

or

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/splatoon/images/c/c7/Octoling_plantilla.png/revision/latest?cb=20180804011124&path-prefix=es

(for those that can’t see it it’s their casual wear render)

Both are in the image

 

[RoboFist]

There’s only one fighter spirit left implying no alts

that’s how it was last I checked at least

So that means (just humor me here) if Sora is the final Fighter, he's only appearing in one outfit, not getting the same treatment as the other SE characters who each have at least one alt costume. Which is, in my opinion, another big strike against that leak. Sora's KH1 costume is the most iconic, sure, but would SE be able to resist giving him a KH2 or KH3 alt? Or some kind of Roxas reference?

It's not concrete proof against him or anything, but it's something to consider. Then again, I still can't imagine a world where we get Sora at all, much less Sora without Roxas as an Echo fighter.

 

[Momotsuki]

There’s only one fighter spirit left implying no alts

that’s how it was last I checked at least

Another point for Reimu, who's alt options are extremely limited beyond recolors based on other 2hus~
Mostly joking, but that's an interesting thing to bring up, even if I doubt they couldn't just... add another one anyway.

 

[Theguy123]

So that means (just humor me here) if Sora is the final Fighter, he's only appearing in one outfit, not getting the same treatment as the other SE characters who each have at least one alt costume. Which is, in my opinion, another big strike against that leak. Sora's KH1 costume is the most iconic, sure, but would SE be able to resist giving him a KH2 or KH3 alt? Or some kind of Roxas reference?

It's not concrete proof against him or anything, but it's something to consider. Then again, I still can't imagine a world where we get Sora at all, much less Sora without Roxas as an Echo fighter.

I wouldn’t be counting on sora anyway in my opinion. The thing with sora is that there’s a big thing currently standing in his way which the tournament theory.

tournament theory suggests the last fighter wields Both a sword and gun. We’ve had multiple brawler tournaments events And we’ve not had a sword event or a gunner event yet which implies the last character wields both.

thats sora’s big hurdle as he doesn’t have a gun. Tournament theory could be wrong though, just hasn’t been wrong yet

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I wouldn’t be counting on sora anyway in my opinion. The thing with sora is that there’s a big thing currently standing in his way which the tournament theory.

tournament theory suggests the last fighter wields Both a sword and gun. We’ve had multiple brawler tournaments events And we’ve not had a sword event or a gunner event yet which implies the last character wields both.

thats sora’s big hurdle as he doesn’t have a gun. Tournament theory could be wrong though, just hasn’t been wrong yet

Hold up what?

I mean they could just do a sword tourney then a gun tourney separately assuming tourneys don’t stop after the final presentation (we’ll need an Ultimate newcomers tourney too) but

please I beg you do not give me hope for Elma

 

[Trevenant]

End Smash Ultimate the way it started.

The two Inklings are having a turf war against a familiar white backdrop.

After a rapid exchange of splattershots, the female Inkling aims and fires a splatbomb at the male Inkling who only narrowly avoids it. The female Inkling then begins to chase down the male Inkling who is in squid form, before slowing her pace to a complete halt as the light gradually turns to a pitch black.

She then turns her head, to a familiar sight except this time, it looks a bit different. It looks to have a lot more depth to it, and behind the flames, there seems to be a figure suspended in midair, with the flames dispersing intensely around the top, tapering around the back of the collective of heat and energy.

It gradually grows larger and larger, with the Inkling turning completely towards it in confusion, panning and slowly zooming in on its expression.

Suddenly, all sound stops, as the camera shows the scene from Inkling's point of view, a sight that was once familiar, was quickly seeming more and more threatening.

The ball then slightly shifts backwards, as all that can now be heard are the flames rapidly grating against the atmosphere, before the ball gets shot towards the Inkling, careering along the ground towards her, before the camera sets back to where the flames once were.

A humanoid figure deftly drops down, with its back turned towards the camera, the only indicator of it's true appearance being the vague outline of its build given off by the dim light from the remnants of the large flaming ball of energy.

Two appendages then suddenly spring up from the entities head, with a whimsical springing sound to accompany it. The creature then raises it's foot, rapidly juggling a ball of pure heat with it, before quickly pivoting round with the other, as the creatures face is then fully visible revealed, to be Cinderace. Splash screen zooms in on this and cue gameplay.

Sorry but I had to. I'm hearing talk about ending it on a way to meaningfully end Ultimate, so what better way to do it than remake the trailer that started it all, only to have it be made to be for the type of character that we are oh, so accustomed to, yet hate all the more because of it.

 

[Ivander]

Hold up what? How did you get BOTH Sword AND Gun…?

please I beg you do not give me hope for Elma

If you don't want your hopes raised, Master Chief has his guns and can also use an energy sword. While I don't think he uses it normally, he supposedly has been portrayed with it a bit recently, like for a Halo Infinite figurine and supposedly in Fortnite.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

So I just came up with a theory/idea that I think you all would want to hear. Especially Rie Sonomura ,because this is gonna involve the trailers and themes of fighting Galeem/Dharkon, etc.

We've been trying (or at least some of us) to guess what CP11's trailer could be like. Would it tie in with WoL? We don't know. Well, if it does, then here's the thing.
We saw Sephiroth one-slice Galeem. We haven't seen anyone kill Dharkon but if you want, you COULD assume the 4 DQ Heroes did so, as with his army of possessed fighters.

But for those wondering "Well if they want to do a true ending themed trailer, where they both get taken down simultaneously and what not, that can't work because of Sephiroth!" etc. etc.

You guys need to remember:
Sakurai outright confirmed it himself that in SSB, the fighters are toys that fight in the imagination of "someone".
Well, if we take this concept into mind, we COULD get a true-ending themed trailer for CP11, and while it wouldn't be canon relative to the other trailers in themselves, it would be canon relative to Smash lore and the fighters-toy parallel in itself. The "someone" plays with its toys and plays in different ways and scenarios, etc.

 

[Siggy88]

I wouldn’t be counting on sora anyway in my opinion. The thing with sora is that there’s a big thing currently standing in his way which the tournament theory.

tournament theory suggests the last fighter wields Both a sword and gun. We’ve had multiple brawler tournaments events And we’ve not had a sword event or a gunner event yet which implies the last character wields both.

thats sora’s big hurdle as he doesn’t have a gun. Tournament theory could be wrong though, just hasn’t been wrong yet

........

.......
....What?

Is this another pattern theory thing?
The logic is so flimsy.

 

[Dukefire]

I can say that if a character can't finish the finale, then one final legit clip can be made by Sakurai and his team to say goodbye to Ultimate.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So I just came up with a theory/idea that I think you all would want to hear. Especially Rie Sonomura ,because this is gonna involve the trailers and themes of fighting Galeem/Dharkon, etc.

We've been trying (or at least some of us) to guess what CP11's trailer could be like. Would it tie in with WoL? We don't know. Well, if it does, then here's the thing.
We saw Sephiroth one-slice Galeem. We haven't seen anyone kill Dharkon but if you want, you COULD assume the 4 DQ Heroes did so, as with his army of possessed fighters.

But for those wondering "Well if they want to do a true ending themed trailer, where they both get taken down simultaneously and what not, that can't work because of Sephiroth!" etc. etc.

You guys need to remember:
Sakurai outright confirmed it himself that in SSB, the fighters are toys that fight in the imagination of "someone".
Well, if we take this concept into mind, we COULD get a true-ending themed trailer for CP11, and while it wouldn't be canon relative to the other trailers in themselves, it would be canon relative to Smash lore and the fighters-toy parallel in itself. The "someone" plays with its toys and plays in different ways and scenarios, etc.

Also

allow me to introduce to you the concept of parallel universes

like I’m 100% time travel/dimension hopping shenanigans were involved between Hero and Sephiroth’s trailers, would explain why Arus is in the latter trailer and nobody’s possessed

or if you wanna get real meta and pull an Undertale, it’s the player resetting after the first bad end where Dharkon reigns, then enter Galeem about to yeet everyone from existence before the slice

then after Sephiroth’s trailer, player resets once again setting the stage for the true ending

…my brain hurts now

 

[Theguy123]

Hold up what?

I mean they could just do a sword tourney then a gun tourney separately assuming tourneys don’t stop after the final presentation (we’ll need an Ultimate newcomers tourney too) but

please I beg you do not give me hope for Elma

We’ve had 3 sword users in this pass so far and not 1 sword tournament

We’ve had no gunners in this pass yet and no gunner tournament so far.

chances are the last character might be wielding both

they held of the brawler tournament until kazuya’s reveal (the stamina tournament I believe it’s called) when They could’ve done the tournament at any point but they held that off specifically until kazuya’s reveal which to me says the last fighter wields a gun and sword since we’ve not had 1 gunner or sword tournament yet.

 

[RileyXY1]

The Tournaments are shown to not mean anything, except for the decades tournaments, and more specifically, the 2010s tournament.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

…my brain hurts now

Mine too
From what we just discussed


and also I don't want to study for my physics midterm AHHHHHHHH

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Double Post
: (