Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[warubyun]

Wait, are we still talking about the 4chan "leak?" After finding the flub? Damn...

We do get The List™ and SamusHunter or whatever their name is brought up here time and time again, after all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

There is one scenario I can imagine an Undertale character making it in as FP11 and that's if Nintendo decided to add one more slot for the second pass after seeing the insane reception to the Sans Mii costume.

I don't agree with this argument because it implies Nintendo saw how ludicrously popular Undertale is to the point we have Toby Fox composing a song for Pokemon Sword and Shield, get a deal with Toby Fox to get Sans in the game and even get him to make a remix solely for the costume and then go "HUHHHHHH?!?!? PEOPLE LIKE THIS?!?!?" like a sheltered dude who lives under a rock finding out there's more video games than Mario and Pokemon. Nintendo themselves aren't that ****ing stupid

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hero also came with a Very Easy mode for WoL

despite also having a WoL themed trailer, Sephiroth didn’t come with any WoL additions. If the last character has a WoL Final Battle-themed trailer, I hope they come with either 2P WoL or WoL Very Hard mode

 

[MattX20]

Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb for this one and go with a guess for a character that most people wouldn't guess for FP11 that is 1st party with 3rd party ties who could be a genuine contender: Wonder Red from Wonderful 101. Think about it, a lot of the time people's predictions are often way off target for the second pass.

 

[Theguy123]

9 days remaining

Hero: The grandfather that started the RPG games and the most RNG character

One of the two characters revealed at E3 2019 that caused mixed reactions and another "Anime Swordman" salt for some people.

loved his inclusion. His moveset drew me to him straight away. If there’s 1 thing you can rely on from square Enix, it’s that their characters are always unique in terms of moveset

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

can't wait for the ultimate mario kart ds rep, shyguy in a kart, to be the last character.

using various items from the mario kart series, as well as the ability to drive, they are by far the fastest character in the game

You joke, but i unironically would have preferred him over Piranha Plant.


At least he would have made for a second Yoshi series rep.

 

[Metal Shop X]

It's so weird seeing peoples talking about how a UT rep might have a legit shot as the last character.

idk why, I love Undertale/Deltarune, but beside the Sans Mii Costume & Megalovania, I wasn't expecting much for Smash outside of that, but now, while I still got doubt...a little part of me can't help me but be like:

"Hmm, where I did put the Milk?"

"Hmm, maybe, just, maybe"

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I would call it fake. But getting October 5 correctly? He is either really lucky, which is totally possible, or actually has legitimate information.
Now this is interesting.

View attachment 331568

Reposted

It was specified that the music was

• a) From Kingdom Hearts, and
• b) for an event on October 5

So it's very much for Sora if true.

Wow. I was sleeping when this was happening but like....

if it's actually Sora... well... I kinda counted him out. I had pretty much convinced myself he wasn't happening but if he actually DOES get in, against all odds... then... Jiminy CHRISTMAS what a way to end this. Though I would not win any Burger King since I was ABSOLUTELY NOT expecting him.

I sincerely hope Sora's reveal trailer is nigh impossible to narratively understand most of hahaha like the only thing you definitively pull out of it is "Sora's in Smash". Like it starts off straightforward enough, the Super Smash Bros are standing at the end of the cliff, Galeem and Dharkon are in the sky with their Hands and such... and then a bit keyhole appears from the sky and he falls from the sky SO HARD, that Utada Hikaru starts playing, but he lands in the water and then another guy is standing there SO HARD that he tumbles back but then he lands on a stained glass window of Snow White but its ok because he stabs himself with a key and becomes ANOTHER Sora named Roxas, and then he jumps and is on a beach, and somehow there are two different things called a keyblade that are both pronounced as "keyblade" and then a guy shows up and speaks in riddles about hearts and darkness and doors ... and then GOOFY shows up.

And he looks like this

And it is never explained why he looks like that... but rest assured, it likely has something to do with "hearts" and "darkness" and "the door"... and sure enough, Tifa Lockhart and Stitch probably have some minor thing to do with it too, as does Christopher Lee.


Sora in Smash would be WILD. Guess he'd get that rematch with Sephiroth and Cloud after all. That might somehow have something to do with his trailer too.

 

[MattX20]

9 days remaining

Hero: The grandfather that started the RPG games and the most RNG character

One of the two characters revealed at E3 2019 that caused mixed reactions and another "Anime Swordman" salt for some people.

To be honest, due to toxic leak bandwagoning and harassment/putdowns outside of Smashboards, I was initially against the DQ heroes and wanted to see them deconfirmed purely out of spite to the people who made the 6 month lead up to E3 2019 so miserable. That wasn't the fault of Dragon Quest as a franchise, and since then I've played Dragon Quest 8 for the 3DS and Dragon Quest 11S, both of which are great RPGs. Koichi Sugiyama's still a jerk, especially in regards to music though.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Hero’s trailer was one of the best scripted trailers, no cap
The ultimate surprise of being able to play as arguably the 4 most iconic protagonists in the series hit us hard.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

It's so weird seeing peoples talking about how a UT rep might have a legit shot as the last character.

idk why, I love Undertale/Deltarune, but beside the Sans Mii Costume & Megalovania, I wasn't expecting much for Smash outside of that, but now, while I still got doubt...a little part of me can't help me but be like:
View attachment 331666
"Hmm, where I did put the Milk?"

"Hmm, maybe, just, maybe"

I mean after Kazyua made it after his Father's Mii Costume showed up an entire year prior, it's hard to know what's likely or not.

You might as well throw anything at the wall and see what sticks because rumors and leaks will not help us like in Base Game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Hero is literally the most fun character to **** around with, I've never gotten my ass handed to me as Hero without having a laugh, be it because I landed bull**** that made my friends angry or landing topdeck Hocus Pocus Kamikaze. **** is godlike and nobody can take it away from me

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Bro Toby Fox literally flew to Japan a good while before the Sans costume was revealed; I kinda doubt they decided on an UT/DR character after that, and decided “hey Toby, wanna compose a song for Sw/Sh?” .

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Hero is a character I genuinely do marvel at for actually pulling off the menu and RNG stuff... but one I just haven't really connected with in terms of playing. Part of it is a lack of real history with DQ and the selection of an attack mid-match simply being too distracting for me to really effectively utilize the character all that well.

They're a bit like Olimar in that respect; genuine respect for being that distinct yet sporting a play style that just doesn't fit with the way I play Smash.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

 

[GilTheGreat19]

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

We could use a Forgemaster
Hector gang?

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

This is how Grant Danasty wins.

 

[Ivander]

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

As a Castlevania fan, Alucard, Soma, Shanoa, Maria, more Belmont Echo Fighters like Trevor or Julius, I'm pretty open to another Castlevania character. Oh, and I am pretty open to Miriam as well.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

We could use a Forgemaster
Hector gang?

I can't judge his game because Curse of Darkness didn't seem to get any form of rerelease and I haven't watched season 4 of the show yet but from what I can tell Hector's pretty popular. Biggest issue is probably his VA as Nintendo hates union actors and ****

 

[MooMew64]

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

Even as someone who hasn't played a CV yet, I think I would enjoy Alucard quite a bit. Dude just seems cool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Even as someone who hasn't played a CV yet, I think I would enjoy Alucard quite a bit. Dude just seems cool.

Quite the contrary, to my understanding, Alucard seems to be seen as pretty hot if anything

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

We know the Best Belmont echo idea is Christopher tho.

First CV char to ever beat Dracula Twice and went and destroyed 5 Castles in a goddamn row for good measure. Most underrated Belmont by far.

 

[Jondolio]

Alucard in Smash would be really neat

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Alucard would just be a really neat inclusion. Lot of moveset potential to be had and he was kinda made to be the Chrom of this game, with him initially considered for a slot but being passed over in favor of other characters (though those were for different reasons).

Hell, Alucard was even given a special moment in Palutenas Guidance like Chrom was.

Next game, assuming Cv content and characters return; Alucard has great shot imo. Well, as a good a shot you can have for game that is like half a decade from possible release and isn’t even being thought about.

 

[SKX31]

As of this moment, the entire world is now in the single-digit days until the final challenger for Smash Ultimate reveals themselves. So to kill time in this period of hype and anxiety, I’ve decided to ask some questions to you all about everything that went on in this insane period of a little under three years..

Spoiler: So, counting down starting from Question 9…

How did you lot get your start in the speculation scene? I was just a high school sophomore when Wii U/3DS landed, but my interest started growing when Roy and Ryu were leaked from the game files, not to mention all the chaos ensuing from the Fighter Ballot. Pretty soon I was left wondering who was popular or creative enough to get in, and why.

If we're using the loosest definition of "speculation", then I was aware of school playground speculation as far back as the Melee days. But I was on-off regarding speculation during most of Brawl / 4 - I visited the Dojo daily too, was aware of later leaks like Gematsu, but didn't partake much if at all in the discussions.

I truly got into discussions with Ultimate's DLC (and the RTC thread rating Arthas).

9 days remaining

Hero: The grandfather that started the RPG games and the most RNG character

One of the two characters revealed at E3 2019 that caused mixed reactions and another "Anime Swordman" salt for some people.

Damnit, if I've commited to this I'm gonna commit all the way.

Ah yes, Hero. The first Smash character to be banned at a Nintendo event (really, even if briefly). The HOES MAD of FP1. The character that arguably best highlighted the issue of "niché" and "mainstream" - it's oftentimes region-dependent.

Hero's another character that benefited a lot from getting into Smash - sure, DQ's mainstream in Japan, but not really elsewhere. That's not just relevant to the initial reactions (where many compared Erdrick to Goku) but also the lead up and the aftermath. Hero - or rather Erdrick - was not brought up much if at all in western forums until the brave leak occured. And the boost DQ got from the Smash appearance helped DQ XI S - XI stood at 4 million at the end of 2018 and 6 million by September 2020.

Still though, Hero's release was extremely mixed: more casual-leaning fans debated a lot over whether DQ "deserved" to get in, while competitive minded people were mired in the RNG controversy. Especially since competitively-minded forums had not agreed upon how much randomness was percieved to be acceptable - a controversy that was only fueled by twitter instant kill clips. This lead to Hero being banned in South Australia's scene (a ban which I don't think has been reversed unless I'm mistaken). The language barrier / lack of Command Selection icons issue didn't help, not to a community that frequently sees Japanese Smashers travel to American / European tournaments. The controversy did mostly die down once results started to roll in and Hero didn't take tournaments left and right. Outside of the now-banned Salem, Hero didn't have a flagbearer...

Until a Japanese Hero player - Akakikusu - showed up at Japanese tournaments, rose quickly up the ranks to become one of the most prominent players there and reinvigorated faith in the anime swordsman. While not dominant, Hero nevertheless has been cemented as an effective character in the right circumstances.

The moveset lends credence to this - while Hero's sword swings are slow they're meaty and refill his MP bar even if he hits shield. This is true for both his ground and aerial attacks, giving him a lot of options to play defensive and pressure. Three of his specials have three different forms - letting the Hero player choose between using a quicker version of the spell or sacrifice more MP to increase its strength. In particular, Zapple (Half-charged stage of Zap) has been noted to be an extremely effective way to space and keep opponents off the Hero. The Frizz family are standard but hardhitting fireballs. The Woosh family can be used to quickly escape pressure or even gimp in the right circumstances.

Command Selection is its own beast, with the RNG being semi-compensated by the fact that most CS spells can be grouped into specific categories. The buffs are considered priority amongst Serious Business Heroes - although that doesn't stop the players from using other spells. The only ones routinely avoided are Kaclang / Metal Slash, Kamikaze and Hocus Pocus most of the time (AFAIK). I say most times - people have selected Hocus Pocus hoping for the Giant Mushroom effect. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Hero's weaknesses are worth noting: He doesn't have many reliable anti-air attacks outside of Up Tilt, he's kinda susceptible vs. aggressive rushdown due to his reliance on the magic and slow attacks, and while his individual swings are strong he can't combo endlessly: meaning a Hero player oftentimes has to be careful to avoid those scenarios and instead focus on tacking on damage bit by bit (unless he gets Acceleratle).

Casually this guy can run hot and cold: the sword swings are easy to use, but the magic spells drain a lot of MP quickly if tossed carelessly. Since Hero wants some MP remaining for recovery, poor planning or Magic Bursts that miss can come to haunt the Hero player rather quickly. His susceptibility to rushdown also applies should a Hero focus on the Menu only to get attacked suddenly whether by an opponent, an AT or an item. Still, Hero's array of spells make him the most entertaining character in the right situations. Kamikaze, Hocus Pocus and Magic Burst are the highlights since they're hardcommital yet devastating. The crits add to this, since they come without any warning whatsoever.

FFAs are thus extremely wild if a Hero player's involved, and they only get exponentially wilder if more players choose Hero. 10 / 10 would recommend this every time myself.

(Weird character interaction time: Since Oomph not only buffs Hero's damage output but also makes him take 1.2X more damage himself, characters with high raw damage output or whom outranges Hero can take advantage of that. is a good example since that helps make any battle between the two even more volatile than it already is.)

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

I definetely wouldn't mind a second Castlevania rep, although for that I'm kinda leaning towards Alucard. Not only due to Sakurai himself considering that nor SotN, but also since we already have a pretty good idea of how he would fight due to his AT.

Although I'm not entirely sure that the Crissagrim would work like it does in SotN / his AT - I gotta ask: which weapon should be his primary weapon for a playable appearance?

 

[osby]

In other news, it's the anniversary of the OG CastleVania. I'm curious how people would react to another CV character as the idea seems to be rather popular judging by how often Alucard and Soma popped up over the last few months

Not sure how any specific character would be received by the general fanbase but I can tell you that Sonic fans would be insuffarable lmao.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Alucard would just be a really neat inclusion. Lot of moveset potential to be had and he was kinda made to be the Chrom of this game, with him initially considered for a slot but being passed over in favor of other characters (though those were for different reasons).

Hell, Alucard was even given a special moment in Palutenas Guidance like Chrom was.

Next game, assuming Cv content and characters return; Alucard has great shot imo. Well, as a good a shot you can have for game that is like half a decade from possible release and isn’t even being thought about.

Only problem I imagine is his VA. Not like, a problem Sakurai would have, but me as Yuri Lowenthal's Alucard is very weak imo, Robbie Belgrade and James Callis being ****ing excellent doesn't help either

Although I'm not entirely sure that the Crissagrim would work like it does in SotN / his AT - I gotta ask: which weapon should be his primary weapon for a playable appearance?

Oh the Crissaegrim would probably work like that for a rapid jab and nair or something but for a general sword I'd guess the Alucard Sword.

 

[Sucumbio]

Interesting

I guess the fact characters are popular in the west or not does play a factor in the decision making process on who to include.

 

[MooMew64]

Not sure how any specific character would be received by the general fanbase but I can tell you that Sonic fans would be insuffarable lmao.

Speaking as one:

We're ever not?

 

[osby]

Speaking as one:

We're ever not?

Good point.

Also, no matter which character we get, people are gonna complain that they stole Master Chief/Crash's spot so Sakurai should just go ahead and add Soma.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Interesting

I guess the fact characters are popular in the west or not does play a factor in the decision making process on who to include.

This is incredibly old news and was back in the Melee days, it's the biggest reason Ayumi got pushed like 6 months ago by people who more often than not didn't even play the game

Not sure how any specific character would be received by the general fanbase but I can tell you that Sonic fans would be insuffarable lmao.

As a Sonic fan I agree

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I can't judge his game because Curse of Darkness didn't seem to get any form of rerelease and I haven't watched season 4 of the show yet but from what I can tell Hector's pretty popular. Biggest issue is probably his VA as Nintendo hates union actors and ****

Fair. I’m familiar with him from the Netflix show, though I personally liked Isaac way more. Also, didn’t realize Hector’s VA was a union actor (I didn’t know Nintendo was against them either but I can sort of understand how) , the more you know ig.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Fair. I’m familiar with him from the Netflix show, though I personally liked Isaac way more. Also, didn’t realize Hector’s VA was a union actor (I didn’t know Nintendo was against them either but I can sort of understand how) , the more you know ig.

Netflix likes getting big names whereas Nintendo of America are notoriously cheap with actors

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Interesting

I guess the fact characters are popular in the west or not does play a factor in the decision making process on who to include.

That's been known for a while.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It is telling that even the most Japan oriented DLC characters in Hero and Pyra/Mythra were still relatively well known in the West and so beloved in their native countries that even hypothetical weaker sales of them in US/Europe would easily be compensated by likely strong profits back home.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

Speaking of the Hero reveal trailer, this video is still the most unbelievably perfect thing ever

 

[Ivander]

I mean, it's not impossible for a union actor to go un-credited, like Pit's voice actor who even had new lines in Ultimate. I think ENG Cloud got the short end because he had to be credited or something along the lines. And in some cases supposedly, some unions can't work with other unions.

 

[Metal Shop X]

I mean after Kazyua made it after his Father's Mii Costume showed up an entire year prior, it's hard to know what's likely or not.

You might as well throw anything at the wall and see what sticks because rumors and leaks will not help us like in Base Game.

You're right (though I say Byleth inclusion already broke whatever ideas we thought at the time), but hey, so long peoples are having fun talking about X or Y characters, i'm cool with whatever we talk about til The Last Smash Direct.

 

[MooMew64]

Honestly, I just hope nothing leaks. Like, at all, even right before the presentation.

I want this reveal character, no matter who they are, to just happen naturally. This is the last we're seeing of Smash for quite a while, I imagine: Let's go out surprised.

 

[osby]

I mean, it's not impossible for a union actor to go un-credited, like Pit's voice actor who even had new lines in Ultimate. I think ENG Cloud got the short end because he had to be credited or something along the lines. And in some cases supposedly, some unions can't work with other unions.

Sure, but I think it's unfair to ask for an actor to do uncredited work and that shouldn't be a norm in the first place.