Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[The Rhythm Theif]

Strange, I don't remember having a boost or being able to instantly halt all momentum by letting go of the control stick in S3&K.

I meant that Colors DS plays like S3&K as in “You have to get all Chaos Emeralds in order to get the true ending”.

 

[WahHahaha]

Even though I don't buy into Tournament theory, it is a little odd that we've yet to have a swordfighter tournament despite how many swordfighters we've gotten.


It's most likely just a coincidence, but it is weird ngl, especially since we got the bare-handed one already iirc.

Tournament theory?

 

[Megadoomer]

Also as an AA fan, the series can get stupidly obtuse, I've engraved 'T Bone Steak' into my brain because some of the answers are so bull**** that you need a guide or save scumming with JFA and T&T adding a mechanic that's just fake difficulty. That being said, please do swallow the Gamer pride and try them out, 4's mechanic doesn't penalize you, 5 and 6 let you retry where you were stuck on with full health if you game over and though GAA lacks that which would have been hell had I not known that considering how long those games are, there's a Story Mode where the game plays itself

Unfortunately, I only have 1-3 through the Ace Attorney collection on the 3DS, so I probably won't have any of those advantages haha. I'll give the game another try, though.

So while we wait for the direct announcement in a few days, I'm going to list my 5 characters that could be the final fighter. Feel free to share your 5 characters that could be the final fighter.
Doomslayer
Crash
Rayman
Dr. Eggman
Master Chief

In no particular order...

1. Cinderace - I don't want it to be another Pokemon (there are already nine of them - plenty of other series could easily get the attention), or another fire type starter (I'm not familiar with the latest few generations of Pokemon, but considering that Charizard and Incineroar are already playable, it seems like they could do so much more), but it seems plausible, and from what little I know about the latest generation, Cinderace seems like the most popular, or at least one that's being pushed really hard right now.

2. Master Chief - if you're going to end Smash Ultimate on a big note, this seems like the biggest note possible short of throwing in Kratos from God of War or Ratchet and Clank.

3. Sol Badguy - if the last character is from a new company (something that this pass has avoided so far - Min Min and Pyra/Mythra are from Nintendo, Steve's from Microsoft, Sephiroth's from Square-Enix, and Kazuya's from Namco-Bandai), I could see an Arc System Works character making it in. Sol Badguy or Kunio seem like they'd work well in Smash, though given how well-known ASW is for their fighting games, Sol seems like he'd have the edge. (it would mean two fighting game characters in a row, but they had no problem with two RPG characters in a row for FP1)

4. Rayman - it just seems really weird that Nintendo's gotten permission from Ubisoft to use Rayman for two Smash games now, and he's only been included as a collectible both times. Rayman Legends alone gives him most if not all of a moveset, and I'm pretty sure that the mass Ubisoft exodus happened after negotiations for FP2 took place.

5. Crash Bandicoot - Crash has been seen as being just below the likes of Mario and Sonic when it comes to gaming, and the series has seen a massive resurgence lately with the remasters and Crash 4.

As much as I'd like to see Doomguy make it in, I don't think he's especially likely. (I'm expecting a Mii costume with the final character at best) Amaterasu would be great as well (I could easily see a Smash stage with Okami's painting-like aesthetic), but if Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, and Monster Hunter didn't get in, I don't see Okami getting the nod.

 

[Baba]

So while we wait for the direct announcement in a few days, I'm going to list my 5 characters that could be the final fighter. Feel free to share your 5 characters that could be the final fighter.
Doomslayer
Crash
Rayman
Dr. Eggman
Master Chief

I just want someone interesting. No more Platformers or JRPG characters please.
My big hopes are for a western FPS rep. Master Chief, Doomguy, Gordon Freeman, etc. Someone like that would really end things in an exciting way imo.
Either that or a Smash original rep like Tabuu. That would be a cool way to end things.

Also no hate if you want another platformer or JRPG character. I just think the roster has enough of them and I want a little more variety.
I'd be okay with Porky Minch or Crash if we had to get more reps from those genres.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I meant that Colors DS plays like S3&K as in “You have to get all Chaos Emeralds in order to get the true ending”.

That's... VERY different from what you said but the special stages are such a pushover in Colours DS that it's hardly gonna take what, half an hour?

 

[Shroob]

Tournament theory?

Some people notice that they hold back tournaments.

The "Fire" tournament was meant to come out after Byleth according to its in-game numbering, but only launched after Pythra.



It's not an actual solid theory at all, which is why I barely humor it in the first place, but we're 3 years in and not a single "Swordfighter" tournament is weird.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not sure why you keep trying to tie emotions like hype or anger into these discussions when they're irrelevant. If they didn't want people to be upset, we wouldn't have gotten Byleth at the tail end of FP1 after 4 other 3rd parties, or Min Min to start FP2 over someone like Steve.

Barely anyone cares about the fact that the last character in the first pass wasn't a first party, with the issue people having with him related to being the 8th Fire Emblem character. Byleth would have gotten about as much hate at any point. If he was the first in the pass, he'd be considered by many to be "an awful way to start the pass" and the fact he came after wouldn't have helped. If he was revealed at E3, lots of people would have had a lukewarm reaction to the Smash portion of Nintendo's E3 2019 Direct since they'd consider him to be a "letdown for the biggest western gaming event" and if he was after Banjo & Kazooie, the complaints would change to "We got another Fire Emblem character of all things after the highly requested due?!?" So really, when Byleth was revealed would have made little difference. Conversely, if the Final Fighter Pass 1 character was someone like Skull Kid or Isaac, few would complain regardless of them being first party characters.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Hard disagree. The gameplay of Colors on Wii was genuinely fun, and there was a segment of the fanbase more than fine with the characterization and lighter plot. It's a mainline Sonic game without alternative gameplay I have no interest in (which is an accomplishment for this franchise) and the aesthetics are a joy to look at.

Keywords here being - “a SEGMENT of the fanbase”. Need I remind you that said segment of the Sonic fanbase is full of nostalgia biased people (aka the ones that SEGA have been listening too ever since then)?

 

[WahHahaha]

Some people notice that they hold back tournaments.

The "Fire" tournament was meant to come out after Byleth according to its in-game numbering, but only launched after Pythra.



It's not an actual solid theory at all, which is why I barely humor it in the first place, but we're 3 years in and not a single "Swordfighter" tournament is weird.

Well that's a pretty lame theme for a tournament anyway, so I think that's probably why it didn't happen.


Something I did notice was that a lot of the tournaments have to do with characters though. We got a "characters in black" tournament and some tournaments about villains before Sephiroth. Not all of them do though so it could be a coincidence.

 

[MagnesD3]

If anybody could come up with their look.
They wouldn't be Iconic enough to be warrant to be in smash and be recognized by almost everyone.

All of the """""generic ANIMUH SWORDSMEEEEHN"""""" that we have basically almost invented their tropes, the biggest exemple being Cloud and Sephiroth, being literally MR.JRPG and MR.RPG BAD GUYS to the point of anyone after them, trying to mimic them, having such a big influence in pop-culture,that nowadays, they're being referenced with people who didn't even played their games.

Also come on? Dante? Not anime looking?
ffs man, the design they used for the Smash Bros Mii Costume has so many belts, you'd think ****ing Nomura designed him on a cofe break.

Cloud and Sephiroth are Iconic and have an interesting look design wisethey arent generic at all, never complained about them their inclusions are fantastic, I do agree there have been plenty of bad mimics tho.

 

[Shroob]

Barely anyone cares about the fact that the last character in the first pass wasn't a first party, with the issue people having with him related to being the 8th Fire Emblem character. Byleth would have gotten about as much hate at any point. If he was the first in the pass, he'd be considered by many to be "an awful way to start the pass" and the fact he came after wouldn't have helped. If he was revealed at E3, lots of people would have had a lukewarm reaction to the Smash portion of Nintendo's E3 2019 Direct since they'd consider him to be a "letdown for the biggest western gaming event" and if he was after Banjo & Kazooie, the complaints would change to "We got another Fire Emblem character of all things after the highly requested due?!?" So really, when Byleth was revealed would have made little difference. Conversely, if the Final Fighter Pass 1 character was someone like Skull Kid or Isaac, few would complain regardless of them being first party characters.

As someone who saw a 1st party character coming from a mile away, I disagree.


I cannot begin to tell you how many times I was shot down in discussion for bringing up the idea of a 1st party character ending the pass because "We've gotten 4 3rd parties in a row, do you really think they'd change this?"

 

[7NATOR]

I try to avoid that if possible (it's probably a reason why I have trouble getting into older Fire Emblem games - I don't want characters to die, and I don't want to be constantly resetting the game whenever random archer C gets a critical hit and kills someone), but I'll keep that in mind and give it another shot.

When it comes to Smash speculation, I'm not really sure how Phoenix Wright would work as a playable character, since his Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 playstyle wouldn't really work in Smash due to the much larger stages. (people who play as him would hate that they have to rely entirely on randomness for him to be effective, while people who play against him would be annoyed by him running away in order to find a safe place to gather evidence, and then running elsewhere when the other character gets close) Though I'm open to ideas.

Steve in this game reminds me of how Phoenix is in UMVC3, in that they both want to be getting Materials to make themselves a Stronger character. There's even the same problem of Steve's running away alot to get material. The Differences is that Phoenix doesn't run out of Material per say, as whatever evidence you collect you could technically use forever, you just might commonly get Bad Evidence you need to Throw away, but on the other Side, Steve is a much more capable Fighter up close when they have any source of Resource

I also think it's worth noting that UMVC3 is a Team game with Assists and such. So Technically we haven't seen Phoenix in a Solo Fighting game.

Personally I don't think Phoenix can work as a Solo character in Smash. He would definitely have Bad Stats, since he's not someone that's meant for Fighting, and I don't Imagine his moves being very strong (Until he's collected evidence). This game is much more Aerial based, and I Imagine he could only collect Evidence on the ground, so that's an issue. He would not only have a Bad time fighting up Close, but he would even have a bad time keeping his Zone, and I don't think any of that could work. The only way Phoenix would be able to work Solo is if the evidence he gets is both Plentiful, and has more drastic effects on his moveset in a positive way

What I could see working better is Phoenix as a Duo Character with Maya. She could be his Body guard of some sorts and be attacking Opponents while Phoenix is trying to prop up his Counter Offense with Evidence. Phoenix could probably still have is different modes, and when he's Investigating, Maya will do the Fighting in the meantime, and when Phoenix is ready to go on the offensive, they could switch with Maya providing some Defensive backup.

I Imagine you would control both, with the person on the Offensive being the Attack Button and Grabs, the Person on Defense being 3 out of 4 special Moves (with one of the Specials being to Switch), and both Jump, Shield, Move at Same time. I also imagine both could teleport to each other if they get Separated, since there are Supernatural elements in Ace Attorney

 

[MattX20]

As someone who saw a 1st party character coming from a mile away, I disagree.


I cannot begin to tell you how many times I was shot down in discussion for bringing up the idea of a 1st party character ending the pass because "We've gotten 4 3rd parties in a row, do you really think they'd change this?"

However, the second pass has given us 3 first party picks with Pyra and Mythra counted separately. So, it seems more probable to end on a 3rd party pick than a 4th 1st party. That's why I'm a bit more skeptical since Nintendo has roughly half the pass or 1/3 of it depending on how you look at it.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Keywords here being - “a SEGMENT of the fanbase”. Need I remind you that said segment of the Sonic fanbase is full of nostalgia biased people (aka the ones that SEGA have been listening too ever since then)?

Yes because nostalgia blinded fans cared so much about lighthearted jokes like Baldy McNosehair

 

[Guynamednelson]

However, the second pass has given us 3 first party picks with Pyra and Mythra counted separately. So, it seems more probable to end on a 3rd party pick than a 4th 1st party. That's why I'm a bit more skeptical since Nintendo has roughly half the pass or 1/3 of it depending on how you look at it.

Remember, Nintendo doesn't care about things being "balanced" according to the Smash fandom, otherwise they wouldn't have continued adding FE. The fact that you have to split Pythra when they're part of the same challenger pack makes it seem like you're stretching to say it's already 50% Nintendo.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

As someone who saw a 1st party character coming from a mile away, I disagree.


I cannot begin to tell you how many times I was shot down in discussion for bringing up the idea of a 1st party character ending the pass because "We've gotten 4 3rd parties in a row, do you really think they'd change this?"

Expectation and want are not one and the same thing. If weren't rumoured few would believe they had a decent chance before being blown away at E3 2019.

Remember, Nintendo doesn't care about things being "balanced" according to the Smash fandom, otherwise they wouldn't have continued adding FE. The fact that you have to split Pythra when they're part of the same challenger pack makes it seem like you're stretching to say it's already 50% Nintendo.

Also, this is a Nintendo game and the DLC roster for Smash 4 had more Nintendo characters than third-party characters. Also, if we are going to use patterns, then by that logic a first party character is more likely to be revealed in a regular Direct considering versus and thus the September Direct character will most be a first party. If we use patterns.

 

[MattX20]

Remember, Nintendo doesn't care about things being "balanced" according to the Smash fandom, otherwise they wouldn't have continued adding FE. The fact that you have to split Pythra when they're part of the same challenger pack makes it seem like you're stretching to say it's already 50% Nintendo.

That's how the official site counts them as separate characters. Steve/Alex and the DQ heroes don't get that

 

[Guynamednelson]

That's how the official site counts them as separate characters. Steve/Alex and the DQ heroes don't get that

Sure, they have separate fighter numbers, but they're still part of the same pack, it's impossible to buy Pyra without Mythra (and even if you did that she'd have no down-B).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've never cared about body shapes. If the characters are fun to play, then I play 'em.

I've never cared about body shapes. If the characters are iconic, then I request 'em.

It's because Dante is more western realism and less generic anime/more cool looking

He looks western. But he animes harder than any anime character has ever animed.

A friend of mine (huge JRPG fan) popped off at Joker but hated Byleth initially

Well yeah. If you're a huge JRPG fan, you want to see other JRPGs. Not just FE...AGAIN.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

So, besides the GB/GBC murmurs from various sources, and the Monolith site maint the 8th, are there any other hints as to a Direct next week?


Considering it's Saturday, we really, really don't have long to wait to be sure, but was just curious if any other oddities had sprouted up.

The GTA on Switch rumours?

 

[Shroob]

Sure, they have separate fighter numbers, but they're still part of the same pack, it's impossible to buy Pyra without Mythra (and even if you did that she'd have no down-B).

At the same time tho, they're different characters.

They're no different than Pokemon Trainer, or Zelda/Sheik,


Even if they're in the same pack, they're effectively 2 characters in one, and Sakurai treats them as such.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

The GTA on Switch rumours?

Haven’t those been around since like forever tho?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Haven’t those been around since like forever tho?

It's a new rumor that the GTAIII trilogy is getting remade with the Unreal Engine, and the remakes are coming to Switch.

Which I think is either outsourced or bull****, because Rockstar would definitely want to use their own engine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Unless we get a 2 in 1 or 3 in 1 character for Challenger Pack 11, we're going to end with a total of 13 characters anyway for DLC.

And yeah, alts are sometimes given a lot of importance, and sometimes they're not. Hero goes back and forth(with only Luminary and Erdrick getting some love), where Byleth and Steve/Alex are both treated as important. Albeit, Zombie and Enderman aren't actually ignored, as they got their own taglines, which no other Hero but Luminary got, but still.

 

[N3ON]

As the #1 fan of Dante when Idon isn't around here, Dante is definitely anime. Maybe not so much in terms of visuals, but he's always over the top and constantly does random nonsense ****.

I don't really see things like this in western made games. I understand that he looks more realistic in 5 but Dante is literally the definition of "crazy and over the top protagonist" in videogames, to the point I'd dare to say he became the template for that in videogames.

Also, as osby said, there are different types of anime, just like you can find different styles of western comics. Anime franchises such as Pokémon or Jojo's are completely different in terms of visuals.

Idk if that means it's anime or... if it's just Japanese.

Japan is nuts.

 

[FreeFox]

I dont see what is controversial/strange/unlikely about ending on a first party. Brawl ended on with Olimar then Wolf. Wii U/3DS ended with Shulk then Duck Hunt and then Corrin/Bayoneta. Ultimate ended with Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant then with Byleth.

 

[MagnesD3]

I've never cared about body shapes. If the characters are iconic, then request 'em.

He looks western. But he animes harder than any anime character has ever animed.

Well yeah. If you're a huge JRPG fan, you want to see other JRPGs. Not just FE...AGAIN.

I meant generic anime design but yeah his personality could fit the cool edgy anime profile sure. I mean Snake does some anime ass shiz too.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I dont see what is controversial/strange/unlikely about ending on a first party. Brawl ended on with Olimar then Wolf. Wii U/3DS ended with Shulk then Duck Hunt and then Corrin/Bayoneta. Ultimate ended with Ken, Incineroar and Piranha Plant then with Byleth.

The ratio of third party versus first party has been jacked up considerably in Smash Ultimate though, so it‘s really just Byleth that really upholds this grand new pattern. It can go either way imo

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

A first party character would be fine, it's just that many people see the realistic choices of that (given what we've seen in the DLC) to likely be a newish character from a recent game.

If a lot of the fandom really believed that Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Isaac, Kamek, etc had a strong shot, I suspect you'd see more enthusiasm about the pass ending with a Nintendo character. As is, it's a lot of people bracing themselves for a Pokémon or hoping it's at least someone like an Octoling or King Boo for a bit of a change.

 

[FreeFox]

The ratio of third party versus first party has been jacked up considerably in Smash Ultimate though, so it‘s really just Byleth that really upholds this grand new pattern. It can go either way imo

Of course. Afterall, I am not saying that the game has to end on a first party, just that its not as unlikely as some people seem to to think it is.

 

[Trevenant]

Wasn't the Monelith maintenance happening Tuesday due to timezone differences? Whilst obviously not ruling out a direct entirely, I doubt the maintenance means much due to that.

 

[Shroob]

Yeah, that's kinda my stance.


I got nothing against 1st party characters, just


3(4?) of our Fighter Pass 3rd parties have all been 1st parties from Switch-era games, and with games like Astral Chain and Ring Fit seemingly out, that doesn't fill me with the biggest boost of confidence for a long-term 1st party want.

 

[XorahnGaia]

So, besides the GB/GBC murmurs from various sources, and the Monolith site maint the 8th, are there any other hints as to a Direct next week?


Considering it's Saturday, we really, really don't have long to wait to be sure, but was just curious if any other oddities had sprouted up.

It's not on the same level as the other clues that you mentioned, but there's a teaser site for a collection of classic NIS games that ends on the 8th.

Considering that NIS has consistently supported the Switch since launch, it's possible that this could be revealed in the Direct if it's held on that day.

Of course, it could also be nonchalantly revealed on Twitter, so at best is something to keep in mind until the day of the reveal comes.

 

[FreeFox]

Everyone worried about the last character being possibly disappointing and here I am worried that the unknown space in FP2 turns out to be nothing.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Echoing earlier shared sentiment. First party characters aren‘t a bad thing in and of themselves. Bandana Dee, Dixie Kong and a massive sleeve full of Assist Trophy promotions would all be really hype. Historically though, third parties have been characters from beloved series and first parties have been “buy more switch game hahaa gottem”

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Granted we won't know if the GB/GBC rumors will be true until a Direct happens, but given we're close to the NSO's third anniversary (and thus when many people's yearly subscriptions will be expiring) rolling out some sort of incentive in a presentation right before would make sense.

 

[Theguy123]

Everyone worried about the last character being possibly disappointing and here I am worried that the unknown space in FP2 turns out to be nothing.

Sakurai may have said no new fighters were being worked on, however, he never said anything about echo fighters.

I wonder if the last character will have an echo. Echo’s aren’t new characters. They’re the same character with a few visual differences. Would make sense for the last character to come with some sort of echo

funny as I said the other day we probably won’t get an echo lol. I’m always contradicting myself

 

[Baba]

I think there are some first party characters that would garner excitement.
Nobody ever mentions Tabuu but I think he'd be such an insanely cool final addition to the game. It'd be very nostalgic to a lot of people and would be awesome to see Smash get its own rep. Plus he could come with Primid mii costumes or something.

But yeah overall, I think when it comes to excitement and hype nowadays, third parties usually generate the most. We really do have almost every big first party character that people have been asking for since Melee.

The big bombshells are moreso left in the third party department.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Everyone worried about the last character being possibly disappointing and here I am worried that the unknown space in FP2 turns out to be nothing.

I think it’ll be something. Just not a character or Mii

stage pack maybe?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think there are some first party characters that would garner excitement.
Nobody ever mentions Tabuu but I think he'd be such an insanely cool final addition to the game. It'd be very nostalgic to a lot of people and would be awesome to see Smash get its own rep. Plus he could come with Primid mii costumes or something.

But yeah overall, I think when it comes to excitement and hype nowadays, third parties usually generate the most. We really do have almost every big first party character that people have been asking for since Melee.

The big bombshells are moreso left in the third party department.

Master Chief?

How ‘bout Master Hand!