Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Fixed it.
Anything's possible, dude. Has Smash taught you nothing?

Yeah, that "anything can happen" is just an excuse to not move on from spinning bandicoots and green-armored shootymen.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I didnt know Bandai Namco had a character in FP1. Who was it again?


You are right. That is why Rex was added as a Mii costume..... wait a minute. Wasnt he also supposed to be a fighter this pass before being scrapped last minute due to hardware limitations?

They couldn’t put in another SNK character because Terry is basically SNK the character, so that slot isn’t really possible to mirror and Kazuya being from a company that now makes Smash makes sense to take that open spot in pass 2.
Rex was added as a Mii costume because they knew he wouldn’t work as a fighter. Sakurai wouldn’t have said he made the Rex mii fighter so people could pretend he is a fighter in Smash if they were working on putting him in as a fighter in the future(this also means that pass 2 was decided in 2018 and not 2019).

it’s just my opinion. I don’t see sakurai putting the same amount of atlus reps in as sega have. I don’t think there’s any subsidiaries that companies in smash already owns that have more reps than the official company themselves. Correct me if I’m wrong.

not to mention sephiroth’s trailer already proves Nintendo and sakurai have held talks with sega specifically for fp2 and not atlus so if we are to get a sega rep it’ll probably come from sega and not atlus

on top of this as well just wanna say the reason why people think sega is likely is because there’s no sega content, not atlus content. Also I don’t remember tekken being in pass 1 but feel free to correct me in this

it’s just my opinion though. Why you getting heated

I am not heated, I was just wondering why you thought that way considering I see people saying “Sega but no Atlus” a lot for seemingly no reason.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Yeah, that "anything can happen" is just an excuse to not move on from spinning bandicoots and green-armored shootymen.

That just goes against what the word "anything" means.
Whether some fans bandwagon on the same characters or not, is irrelevant to what's actually in the realm of possibility financially, logically, etc.

 

[Guynamednelson]

That just goes against what the word "anything" means.

But they don't truly believe that ANYTHING can happen when they say that. They only believe that only what's commonly predicted can.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Where are you getting this? Even if I didn’t care about SMT getting into Smash the chances of Atlus getting another fighter are the same or even greater than an original Sega franchise simply because of pass 2 mirroring pass 1 and Joker being listed as an Atlus character and not a Sega one. A big reason why people think the final fighter is a Sega character is because Atlus is included. It’s not like Eggman has this overwhelming evidence for his inclusion or Phantasy Star is a dream addition to Smash for Sakurai.

I am not projecting anything. They would not go through the trouble of making Sword and Shield spirits KNOWING that the final fighter of pass 2 is a Gen 8 Pokémon and that this means they will have to make even more Sword and Shield spirits for it in the future.

If they were going put in a Sword and Shield Pokémon they wouldn’t wait until 2 years after the game came out, they would have put it in Min Min or Steve’s slot. When I was doing my initial predictions for pass 2(which had Nahobino as the final slot btw)I had a Gen 8 Pokémon in Steve’s slot, but just like my Travis Touchdown prediction and my Crash prediction I just had to drop it because I didn’t know what Nintendo was doing with newer Smash games at the time.

We don’t have a Gen 3 or a Gen 5 Pokémon fighter in Smash and Gen 8 is going to join that list(Gen 9 and probably 10 will be out before the next Smash is). People need to just accept that fact.

Again, Aegis and Min Min were pretty aged by the time their respective DLC slots rolled around. It‘s not likely they’ll backtrack to that degree for the final slot, which is historically for the brand-spankity new ~~Fire Emblem~~

Then again, I‘ve already said that I’m personally not betting on a Pokémon character so I’m not sure why you insist on changing my mind to the ludicrous notion of a black-and-white impossibility of a concept.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

But they don't truly believe that ANYTHING can happen when they say that. They only believe that only what's commonly predicted can.

What they believe and what's really true are two different things, my friend.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

What they believe and what's really true are two different things, my friend.

Nelson's just mad that Master Chief isn't seen as out whereas Isaac is despite them having literally nothing in common beyond being popular Smash requests

 

[Jondolio]

I mean, I don't think Master Chief is gonna happen, 'cause the last fighter is gonna be a Pokémon...
But I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

 

[Munchi]

Ok but everyone loves Zavok which is why Sega keeps putting him in because if he's literally Bowser, surely he'd be just as popular as Bowser, right? Zavok's soooooo cool, he should be the Sonic Rangers protag

That Zavok is really so similar to Bowser? is something that I heard multiple times but since I do not play sonic games,I don´t know how true is it.

 

[Guynamednelson]

But I wouldn't rule it out entirely.

But what evidence is there that MC still has a chance that doesn't boil down to "I still need my big name third party hype despite acquiring it from Steve and Sephiroth and perhaps Kazuya"?

 

[Schnee117]

It has been 0 days since Nelson last ******* about people who want popular characters

Someday that number will go above 3

 

[Jondolio]

But what evidence is there that MC still has a chance that doesn't boil down to "I still need my big name third party hype despite acquiring it from Steve and Sephiroth and perhaps Kazuya"?

I don't know, I'm mostly saying he'd be cool as ****. There's rarely any hard evidence to disconfirm characters other than Mii Costumes and Assist Trophies, so I don't see anything like that for Chief. It's totally possible.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

That Zavok is really so similar to bowser? is something that I heard multiple times but since I do not play sonic games,I don´t know how true is it.

The Deadly Six can easily be read as Koopalings and stuff while Zavok shares visual traits with Bowser, especially the armbands and hair. Zavok also becomes a giant when you fight him in Lost World like Bowser would in every Mario game around that period, Sega keeps shoehorning him in everything despite a lack of popularity which is seen as them trying to give Sonic a Bowser as if Eggman doesn't fit the bill

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't know, I'm mostly saying he'd be cool as ****. There's rarely any hard evidence to disconfirm characters other than Mii Costumes and Assist Trophies, so I don't see anything like that for Chief. It's totally possible.

Smash's inability to end with a huge name is harder evidence than any Assist Trophy.

 

[Jondolio]

Smash's inability to end with a huge name is harder evidence than any Assist Trophy.

The only evidence in favor of that is that we never had a huge reveal at the end. It's just a pattern, and I think I've already made it clear how I feel about those by now.

 

[RouffWestie]

But what evidence is there that MC still has a chance that doesn't boil down to "I still need my big name third party hype despite acquiring it from Steve and Sephiroth and perhaps Kazuya"?

You could count Vergeben saying he'd be in during E3.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Actually, DLC has never ended any other way other than with a Fire Emblem protagonist so you know what that means.

Sigurd “Daddy Long ****” of Chalphy rides into battle.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Again, Aegis and Min Min were pretty aged by the time their respective DLC slots rolled around. It‘s not likely they’ll backtrack to that degree for the final slot, which is historically for the brand-spankity new ~~Fire Emblem~~

Then again, I‘ve already said that I’m personally not betting on a Pokémon character so I’m not sure why you insist on changing my mind to the ludicrous notion of a black-and-white impossibility of a concept.

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 are games that came out in the thick of Smash Ultimate’s development. Sword and Shield barely even existed as a concept in 2017.

There is no comparison between games that had to be included as dlc because they missed the boat for the base roster barely and a game that had no prayer of getting into the base roster but could have easily made it into any pass 2 slot(or the final slot of pass 1).

 

[Megadoomer]

But what evidence is there that MC still has a chance that doesn't boil down to "I still need my big name third party hype despite acquiring it from Steve and Sephiroth and perhaps Kazuya"?

He's a video game character that's not an assist trophy, Mii costume, and/or post-launch spirit? So far, those seem to be the main things that rule a character out, and I'm not even sure about the post-launch spirit thing. (I get the logic behind it, but if base-game spirits can be promoted, then I'm not sure if post-launch spirits are 100% ruled out, even if it doesn't seem likely for them)

 

[Jondolio]

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 are games that came out in the thick of Smash Ultimate’s development. Sword and Shield barely even existed as a concept in 2017.

There is no comparison between games that had to be included as dlc because they missed the boat for the base roster barely and a game that had no prayer of getting into the base roster but could have easily made it into any pass 2 slot(or the final slot of pass 1).

Pokémon always has concept art way in advance. Or did you already forget how Sakurai picked Greninja for Sm4sh?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

But what evidence is there that MC still has a chance that doesn't boil down to "I still need my big name third party hype despite acquiring it from Steve and Sephiroth and perhaps Kazuya"?

I can think of stuff

Microsoft and Nintendo are on good terms
Thanks to Fortnite, he technically has an appearance on a Nintendo console. THOUGH, this would imply that Nintendo knew about the skin, and idk if Epic would go through extra trouble to make both parties sign an NDA
Dude's got moveset potential, which is simple but important evidence because Sakurai won't do characters he can't do or do justice to.

Look man, I understand you're an Isaac fan. But don't try to bring down people's expectations for the sake of fitting your own personal wish.



...

I'm going to regret responding to you on this, aren't I

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Look man, I understand you're an Isaac fan. But don't try to bring down people's expectations for the sake of fitting your own personal wish.

Nah nah nah, most people here are Isaac fans and yet it's only ever one person who does this.

 

[Munchi]

The Deadly Six can easily be read as Koopalings and stuff while Zavok shares visual traits with Bowser, especially the armbands and hair. Zavok also becomes a giant when you fight him in Lost World like Bowser would in every Mario game around that period, Sega keeps shoehorning him in everything despite a lack of popularity which is seen as them trying to give Sonic a Bowser as if Eggman doesn't fit the bill

Interesting,he has a similar personality to Bowser or is totally different in that regard?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Nah nah nah, most people here are Isaac fans and yet it's only ever one person who does this.

Whoops, let me correct myself then

"fan"

 

[WeirdChillFever]

ARMS and Xenoblade 2 are games that came out in the thick of Smash Ultimate’s development. Sword and Shield barely even existed as a concept in 2017.

There is no comparison between games that had to be included as dlc because they missed the boat for the base roster barely and a game that had no prayer of getting into the base roster but could have easily made it into any pass 2 slot(or the final slot of pass 1).

Both would miss the boat if it weren’t for DLC. If anything, Sword and Shield’s later release would make it a more prime material for a final character (that is, if they dare to change their winning formula of introducing a Fire Emblem protagonist last, something I feel has been cemented in the core of Smash Bros. and could never be changed in favor of something more exciting)

Then again, I‘ve already said that I’m personally not betting on a Pokémon character so I’m not sure why you insist on changing my mind to the ludicrous notion of a black-and-white impossibility of a concept.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Pokémon always has concept art way in advance. Or did you already forget how Sakurai picked Greninja for Sm4sh?

That doesn’t mean anything because we got Incineroar for the base roster.

If anything bringing up the concept art being used to make a Pokémon fighter just casts even further doubt for a Gen 8 Pokémon as the last fighter because that means it could have taken practically any slot in the dlc and not just pass 2.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

That doesn’t mean anything because we got Incineroar for the base roster.

How did you manage to miss such a self-contradiction while typing that?
Jondolio is correct. Sakurai went off of concept art for BOTH Greninja and Incineroar.

And outside of Pokemon, he's done this with other series' characters. e.g Roy in Melee

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Interesting,he has a similar personality to Bowser or is totally different in that regard?

His entire personality is pretty much "I am evil muahahaha" so he's Bowser without the goofy moments.


Also why the **** are there so many people here all of a sudden, shoo, nothing's happening

 

[Schnee117]

Actually, DLC has never ended any other way other than with a Fire Emblem protagonist so you know what that means.

Sigurd “Daddy Long ****” of Chalphy rides into battle.

No, no
We'll go back to Marth's game, but it won't be Caeda, Minerva, Draug, Tiki, Camus or Merric

It's gonna be a certified Matthis Moment

 

[Jondolio]

That doesn’t mean anything because we got Incineroar for the base roster.

If anything bringing up the concept art being used to make a Pokémon fighter just casts even further doubt for a Gen 8 Pokémon as the last fighter because that means it could have taken practically any slot in the dlc and not just pass 2.

Except Incineroar and the hypothetical Gen 8 mon would promote two completely different games. Don't forget that the 3DS was still alive and kicking when Ultimate was in development.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Also why the **** are there so many people here all of a sudden, shoo, nothing's happening

Clearly you forgot how many people were here speculating on the color purple LMAO

 

[WeirdChillFever]

No, no
We'll go back to Marth's game, but it won't be Caeda, Minerva, Draug, Tiki, Camus or Merric

It's gonna be a certified Matthis Moment

No let’s bring back Anna’s boyfriend Jake for the final character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Microsoft and Nintendo are on good terms

This was mainly about Minecraft more than anything else. And guess who we already have?

Thanks to Fortnite, he technically has an appearance on a Nintendo console. THOUGH, this would imply that Nintendo knew about the skin, and idk if Epic would go through extra trouble to make both parties sign an NDA

This skin was made too late. Second Chance Theory makes me think that characters were mostly decided on before 2018, and certainly before Smash fans' standards became absurdly high.

Dude's got moveset potential

Lots of characters do. Including ones that are actually possible as one of Smash's finales.

The only evidence in favor of that is that we never had a huge reveal at the end. It's just a pattern, and I think I've already made it clear how I feel about those by now.

"The only evidence in favor of that is that we never had an AT promoted as DLC. It's just a pattern, and I think I've already made it clear how I feel about those by now."
How does that feel?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I think we’re underestimating the fact that the last two Fire Emblem games are unrepresented. We need reps for both the localization of Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and Tokyo Mirage Session #FE: Encore. Patterns don’t lie, my fellow speculators and there has not and therefore will never be a non-Fire Emblem character in DLC’s finale.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Both would miss the boat if it weren’t for DLC. If anything, Sword and Shield’s later release would make it a more prime material for a final character (that is, if they dare to change their winning formula of introducing a Fire Emblem protagonist last, something I feel has been cemented in the core of Smash Bros. and could never be changed in favor of something more exciting)

Then again, I‘ve already said that I’m personally not betting on a Pokémon character so I’m not sure why you insist on changing my mind to the ludicrous notion of a black-and-white impossibility of a concept.

The later release date DID make it a prime candidate for pass 2 for a time, but that time has passed. My point about ARMS and Xenoblade 2 was that they would have missed their window no matter when they were included.

How did you manage to miss such a self-contradiction while typing that?
Jondolio is correct. Sakurai went off of concept art for BOTH Greninja and Incineroar.

And outside of Pokemon, he's done this with other series' characters. e.g Roy in Melee

You just contradicted yourself. If Sakurai was going off of concept art we would already have a Gen 8 Pokémon rep.

Roy wasn’t based on concept art, he was based on what the developers initially planned to be his character because Sakurai wanted another Fire Emblem character and Leif was too old at that point.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I think we’re underestimating the fact that the last two Fire Emblem games are unrepresented. We need reps for both the localization of Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon and Tokyo Mirage Session #FE: Encore. Patterns don’t lie, my fellow speculators and there has not and therefore will never be a non-Fire Emblem character in DLC’s finale.

Inb4 Itsuki Aoi as the final character

Tsubasa’s the only spirit from the game and there’s no music, just saying. He could add spirits of Kiria, Toma and the others

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It's too bad they've yet to make Zavok a compelling character and instead just burned out the audience with him. His design is really cool and I'd like to see him done well.

-Me and only me

 

[Jondolio]

"The only evidence in favor of that is that we never had an AT promoted as DLC. It's just a pattern, and I think I've already made it clear how I feel about those by now."
How does that feel?

I'm gonna look like I'm backpedaling here but this represents my feelings on the subject of ATs quite accurately as well. However, Sakurai saying "these were characters people wanted" after the latest Mii costume reveal seemed to confirm that they're just consolation prizes, imo.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Inb4 Itsuki Aoi as the final character

Tsubasa’s the only spirit from the game and there’s no music, just saying. He could add spirits of Kiria, Toma and the others

Second Chance theory, baby!

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm gonna look like I'm backpedaling here but this represents my feelings on the subject of ATs quite accurately as well. However, Sakurai saying "these were characters people wanted" after the latest Mii costume reveal seemed to confirm that they're just consolation prizes, imo.

At the same time, the consolation prizes are years old, and 99.9% of everyone whose gameplay experience would be ruined by the removal of one AT would've moved on to newer games by now.