Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Among Waddle Dees]

Let's be real though, complaining about a game being rushed not in the launch window, but three years after it's released, after subsequently adding back a lot of that content via DLC in the interim is indicative of ulterior motivations spurring those criticisms.

Okay, that's not really fair.

In the three years after Ultimate's release, this game's still being dripfed content that they announce every now and then in short bursts, without giving previous hints. How was anyone to know the first pass would have Persona or Fatal Fury? How were we to learn that we'd get another Fire Emblem right after a streak of third-parties, or Sephiroth after we assumed the characters would come solely from "new worlds"? Hindsight is clearer than present decisions, but there's a reason the DLC went all kinds of routes with how it was assumed to be handled.

And frankly, while it is kinda extreme to call Ultimate a total ripoff while conveniently forgetting Smash 4 exists, it's not impossible to have felt being shorthanded by it, either. After all, my most wanted isn't even in the game despite her franchise being there from the beginning, to say nothing about the state of the franchise's general representation.

 

[WahHahaha]

I can’t speak for anyone else but Sephiroth has always been one of my favorite video game characters ever. He was one of the first characters I made a Brawl mod for and I was extremely hyped he made it into Ultimate.

Good for you, at least you aren't pretending that you're so hyped and always wanted him like everyone else.

 

[ZelDan]

Sephiroth isn't even that popular of a character though. He was the main villain of one final fantasy game. Literally nobody ever talked about him in speculation.

He was maybe only the main villain in one game (maybe 2 depending on how you view FFVII remake), but:

1. said "one game" is super ****ing huge and one of the biggest, most influencial JRPGs ever, up there as one of the biggest games of all time.
2. Sephiroth has had multiple major appearances in more than just one game, even if he wasn't the main/biggest villain in other games beyond FFVII.

 

[CannonStreak]

Cloud left more of an impact. He was the protagonist of an influential JRPG. Sephiroth was the main villain of that game, but there's no reason he had to be included, it was already represented enough with Cloud. If you're gonna add Sephiroth then why not add Tifa and Barret as fully playable characters too, they are equally "iconic"

Also people really overexaggerate FF7.

That is just what you think. I think you are downplaying how iconic Sephiroth really is. He is not so less iconic as you think. Just because you did not expect him does nothing to change his importance.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I don't know why everyone talks about Sephiroth as if he was some secret MW that they all had. The excitement around this character is so confusing to me.

I mean they don't call him one of video games most iconic villains for a reason. He's up there with Bowser, Ganondorf, and Eggman.

Sephiroth isn't even that popular of a character though. He was the main villain of one final fantasy game. Literally nobody ever talked about him in speculation.

Sephiroth not popular? Since when? Isn't he the most recognizable FF villain as well as I mentioned most iconic video game villains? You gotta have popularity to retain such statuses.

 

[WahHahaha]

He was maybe only the main villain in one game (maybe 2 depending on how you view FFVII remake), but:

1. said "one game" is super ****ing huge and one of the biggest, most influencial JRPGs ever, up there as one of the biggest games of all time.
2. Sephiroth has had multiple major appearances in more than just one game, even if he wasn't the main/biggest villain in other games beyond FFVII.

FF7 was not even the biggest or most influential RPG. I would argue that Crono Trigger was more influential. The ONLY thing that FF7 did was make JRPGS bigger in the west and contributed into making games more high budget.

Sephiroth was in KH as a villain, that's it. Funnily enough that's also a game made by Square. I don't think he's had any huge guest appearances in anything other than Smash.

 

[Ivander]

it was already represented enough with Cloud

looks at 2 songs

 

[WahHahaha]

looks at 2 songs

Strawman argument. I was only talking about characters.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Cloud left more of an impact. He was the protagonist of an influential JRPG. Sephiroth was the main villain of that game, but there's no reason he had to be included, it was already represented enough with Cloud. If you're gonna add Sephiroth then why not add Tifa and Barret as fully playable characters too, they are equally "iconic"

Also people really overexaggerate FF7.

People don't like characters because they represent a game, they like characters because they like the characters themselves. Sephiroth is a well-made character, so he made an impact on a lot of people, it's not that hard to grasp.

And yeah, they could have added Barret or Tifa instead. That would be understandable too given they are also iconic characters. What I don't get is why they would be OK in your book but Sephiroth isn't.

 

[Noipoi]

What’s even happening rn

 

[N3ON]

They aren't 1-1. Banjo was a common request since Brawl, Sephiroth wasn't even talked about until he got included.

Also stop with the hypothetical scenarios, that didn't happen. I don't care if he "would have" had more demand if he never did. The "perceived obstacle" is that nobody ever talked about him. Stop looking at reveals in hindsight and saying that you were incredibly hyped about how much of a great inclusion he was when you wouldn't have cared if he never got included at all. It's so annoying how the fandom does this.

Also people are misinterpreting what I'm saying to mean I hate Sephiroth. I don't hate him and I like his inclusion. I just don't understand why there's such extreme excitement around him.

You don't understand because you're conflating no one talking about him with no one wanting him. People weren't talking about him because they didn't think he would happen. That doesn't mean he wasn't desired, he was just written off as a possibility due to the unprecedented nature of including him.

It's like how Snake broke down the third-party gate, and resulted in more third-parties getting serious demand. It's not that people didn't want third-parties beforehand, it's that without the expectation being there, there wasn't the accompanying fervour. It's no coincidence that all the secondary characters from third-party series now find themselves with more attention and therefore more demand.

Also Banjo wasn't a common request since Brawl. Banjo was a common request circa Melee, and then again after the Spencer tweet.

 

[7NATOR]

Sephiroth isn't even that popular of a character though. He was the main villain of one final fantasy game. Literally nobody ever talked about him in speculation.

FF7 is big game though, and Sephiroth's Design is very cool looking. His actual character is debatable (Some people think he's Awesome, some think he's dumb, and different interpretation between games vary opinion) but There's no need to lie about him being Popular in General

Sephiroth was niche in Speculation, because between the fact that unique secondary 3rd parties weren't a thing at the time, the whole thing about Square being stingy, especially as FF7 was concerned, and to be honest being overshadowed by Sora and Geno in terms of talks, than yes

Still there were some people that have mentioned him before. We have the Sephiroth Speculation thread, and Rogersbase was right on the money for another FF7 Character, specifically Sephiroth. Even I mentioned him a Few times

I don't think it was that people secretly Actively wanted him in, but I think it was a character that people would be cool with, or Love anyway in spite of that

Eggman is an iconic villain too. Would he become everyone's secret most wanted if he was included? What about Glados from portal,, also an iconic villain. What about Vaas from Far Cry or Handsome Jack?

Also how would he be a pipedream? Nobody ever talked about him. You're still telling me that everyone somehow secretly wanted him.

I don't know about the other Characters, but after Sephiroth, Eggman did start to become one of the most wanted characters in Speculation. The request for another Sonic character has been strong since Brawl (even had some place in Melee, when Sonic wasn't even in the game), but Eggman was a more niche request compared to Tails, Shadow, & Knuckles.

With Sephiroth showing how Unique secondary 3rd party characters can be, Eggman probably being more popular these days than back then as a character, being another Villain, and that Shadow & Knuckles are considered Kill, Eggman has become one of the Highlights of Speculation.

 

[Shroob]

This is just weird logic.


Sephiroth was exciting because it's bloody Sephiroth. I'm not sure why one needs to justify this.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

FF7 was not even the biggest or most influential RPG. I would argue that Crono Trigger was more influential. The ONLY thing that FF7 did was make JRPGS bigger in the west and contributed into making games more high budget.

Sephiroth was in KH as a villain, that's it. Funnily enough that's also a game made by Square. I don't think he's had any huge guest appearances in anything other than Smash.

I love Chrono Trigger to death but what you just said FF7 did is more than Chrono Trigger ever did.

 

[WahHahaha]

People don't like characters because they represent a game, they like characters because they like the characters themselves. Sephiroth is a well-made character, so he made an impact on a lot of people, it's not that hard to grasp.

And yeah, they could have added Barret or Tifa instead. That would be understandable too given they are also iconic characters. What I don't get is why they would be OK in your book but Sephiroth isn't.

You're not adressing what I said at all though, my main point was that people got WAY too excited about Sephiroth and acted like they all wanted him, liking a game and a character is understandable, but pretending you always wanted a character you never talked about is stupid.

Secondly, my point here was whether or not people would react the same if it was one of those characters.

 

[CureParfait]

Who are y’all’s MWs actually? I know a few given some of your pfps and devious messages and signatures, eg Rie wants Octoling, Theguy wants Layton and Inferno7 wants Shadow
But yea what are y’all’s MWs?

Mettaton, Dungeon Fighter rep, and MapleStory rep. Also Darkrai.

 

[Metal Shop X]

FF7 was not even the biggest or most influential RPG. I would argue that Crono Trigger was more influential. The ONLY thing that FF7 did was make JRPGS bigger in the west and contributed into making games more high budget.

Sephiroth was in KH as a villain, that's it. Funnily enough that's also a game made by Square. I don't think he's had any huge guest appearances in anything other than Smash.

Huh, i'm not expert in JRPG, but I feel that's kind of a bigger deal that you're letting out to be.

'cuz if it wasn't for FF7, a ton of cult JRPG in the SNES Era would have stayed very small & not get as many fans or appreciations as they have now.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Sephiroth was really the only character of his kind for DLC. Since up to that point we had all gotten Heroes. No existing 3rd party series received a second rep for DLC.

Having a badass villain come from nowhere and dominate the good guys in his trailer was more than enough to raise excitement. Simple as that.

 

[ZelDan]

FF7 was not even the biggest or most influential RPG. I would argue that Crono Trigger was more influential. The ONLY thing that FF7 did was make JRPGS bigger in the west and contributed into making games more high budget.

Sephiroth was in KH as a villain, that's it.

I mean, I'd say making a whole genre more accessible and popular in a region as massive as the west and influencing a larger focus\budget on said genre is an incredibly huge deal. It seems silly to try and downplay that, and Chrono Trigger, as much as I love the game myself, just didn't so anything near as notable.

Also Sephiroth has also shown up in all Dissidia games (FF crossover series), as well as FFVII: Crisis Core, and probably some other FF-related things I'm not thinking of right now. Dude has had MULTIPLE appearances throughout the FF series.

 

[WahHahaha]

Huh, i'm not expert in JRPG, but I feel that's kind of a bigger deal that you're letting out to be.

'cuz if it wasn't for FF7, a ton of cult JRPG in the SNES Era would have stayed very small & not get as many fans or appreciations as they have now.

You're right. It gave JRPGS more popularity worldwide. The sole reason for this is because it released on a console that was popular in the west. The game itself is really not that big of a deal.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

You're not adressing what I said at all though, my main point was that people got WAY too excited about Sephiroth and acted like they all wanted him, liking a game and a character is understandable, but pretending you always wanted a character you never talked about is stupid.

Secondly, my point here was whether or not people would react the same if it was one of those characters.

...Do you not understand what the phrase "I never knew I wanted him until I got him" means?

It means that people that hadn't thought about him before thought he was a really cool inclusion, not that he was some "secret most wanted" like you keep repeating.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I'll put a stop to this argument (God, I hope) by sharing this; over 130 reactions to Sephiroth's initial reveal trailer. Count down how many people recognize him from the first 5 or so notes of One-Winged Angel alone.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Secondly, my point here was whether or not people would react the same if it was one of those characters.

Probably not as much because Sephiroth is more beloved than them, but still pretty excited I'd say.

You're not adressing what I said at all though, my main point was that people got WAY too excited about Sephiroth and acted like they all wanted him, liking a game and a character is understandable, but pretending you always wanted a character you never talked about is stupid.

Nobody's pretending dude. People can want characters they don't talk about. It's not really that hard to grasp.

Why would someone pretend to be excited about something? That makes no sense.

 

[Metal Shop X]

To be fair to Chrono Trigger, it did invent New Game +, and it's kinda surreal to think this feature didn't exist until that game, since so many JRPG have it now.

You're right. It gave JRPGS more popularity worldwide. The sole reason for this is because it released on a console that was popular in the west. The game itself is really not that big of a deal.

Nah, I don't buy it.

 

[Noipoi]

Sephiroth was exciting because it's bloody Sephiroth. I'm not sure why one needs to justify this.

Hey, careful pal.

You’re sounding a little bri’ish

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Guys, I know I said I wanted to be a Marine Biologist, but that doesn't mean you have to fill the thread up with bait for my sake.

 

[WahHahaha]

...Do you not understand what the phrase "I never knew I wanted him until I got him" means?

It means that people that hadn't thought about him before thought he was a really cool inclusion, not that he was some "secret most wanted" like you keep repeating.

So all of the people that were acting like Sephiroth was the best character in the world, somehow actually knew who he was, liked the game he was in, and saw him as a cool inclusion.

You do realize smash's demographic right? I think it's fair to say plenty of people pretended to be excited about Sephiroth.

 

[Shroob]

Hey, careful pal.

You’re sounding a little bri’ish

Ah, sorry mate. A bit cringe, innit?


....bloody 'ell.

 

[N3ON]

Okay, that's not really fair.

In the three years after Ultimate's release, this game's still being dripfed content that they announce every now and then in short bursts, without giving previous hints. How was anyone to know the first pass would have Persona or Fatal Fury? How were we to learn that we'd get another Fire Emblem right after a streak of third-parties, or Sephiroth after we assumed the characters would come solely from "new worlds"? Hindsight is clearer than present decisions, but there's a reason the DLC went all kinds of routes with how it was assumed to be handled.

And frankly, while it is kinda extreme to call Ultimate a total ripoff while conveniently forgetting Smash 4 exists, it's not impossible to have felt being shorthanded by it, either. After all, my most wanted isn't even in the game despite her franchise being there from the beginning, to say nothing about the state of the franchise's general representation.

Being blindsided by some of the additions is very different than complaining the game is rushed, which is the point my post was contending with.

The DLC did pan out quite differently than most were expecting, I would assume, but whether it struck a chord with you is a matter of subjectivity. Personally I would've preferred it not deviate so much from inclusions of the past, and I suspect some others can commiserate, but I'm not going to say my wants are better or worse than anyone else's. I still got characters I like, and I got a lot I didn't. That's the nature of things.

But it's the fact that these complaints are being made now by the person making them that leads me to think there are ulterior motivations in play. There hasn't even been anything major added to Smash in months. Interesting time to start going off about how the game has shaped up.

 

[ZelDan]

So all of the people that were acting like Sephiroth was the best character in the world, somehow actually knew who he was, liked the game he was in, and saw him as a cool inclusion.

You do realize smash's demographic right? I think it's fair to say plenty of people pretended to be excited about Sephiroth.

Smash's demographic is Nintendo gamers and gamers in general.

Plenty of Nintendo gamers and general gamers know of Final Fantasy, FFVII and thus Sephiroth. A substancial amount of gamers have played FFVII and clearly a majority loved the **** out of it.

So yes, I'm sure a majority of people popping off to Sephiroth were genuine.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Nobody's pretending dude. People can want characters they don't talk about. It's not really that hard to grasp.

Why would someone pretend to be excited about something? That makes no sense.

Precisely. I gush about Asuka on a regular basis, even knowing that quite a sizable chunk of the fandom don't even have her as a blip on the radar, and would likely be vehemently against her possible inclusion. Sure as heck works out in my favor, and it works for anybody who has a character they want but nobody talks about.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So all of the people that were acting like Sephiroth was the best character in the world, somehow actually knew who he was, liked the game he was in, and saw him as a cool inclusion.

You do realize smash's demographic right? I think it's fair to say plenty of people pretended to be excited about Sephiroth.

This is either trash tier bait or you genuinely believe that Smash fans only play one company's console.

Both are awful takes.

 

[WahHahaha]

To be fair to Chrono Trigger, it did invent New Game +, and it's kinda surreal to think this feature didn't exist until that game, since so many JRPG have it now.

Nah, I don't buy it.

So you don't think that Sony (a big company in the west) releasing FF7 as an exclusive on the PS1 (a console that is also heavily popular in the west) had anything to do with FF7's heavy popularity in the west?

 

[Jocario Zero]

if they do continue unique Spirit Events after the last character, which would you want to see?

I'd like to see some more indie representation (Hollow Knight, Hades etc.).
If they can't get Mii costumes, then give them at least this.

It's pretty much the only way Freedom Planet could get some representation in smash (this game is so underrated )

 

[Cutie Gwen]

"People were only pretending to recognize this character from the second best selling game on the best selling system of it's generation simply by the first few notes of his theme playing I swear this is not bait"

 

[ARandomFruit]

You're not adressing what I said at all though, my main point was that people got WAY too excited about Sephiroth and acted like they all wanted him, liking a game and a character is understandable, but pretending you always wanted a character you never talked about is stupid.

But how do you know they're pretending, Are you some kind of mind reader? Quick what am I thinking right now.
Anyways just because people don't talk about a character 24/7 doesn't mean they never wanted them in. I have plenty of characters I want but don't talk about.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So you don't think that Sony (a big company in the west) releasing FF7 as an exclusive on the PS1 (a console that is also heavily popular in the west) had anything to do with FF7's heavy popularity in the west?

I can't believe Super Mario Bros was popular because the NES was popular.


And here I thought it was because it was good.

Man do I feel foolish.

 

[ZelDan]

So you don't think that Sony (a big company in the west) releasing FF7 as an exclusive on the PS1 (a console that is also heavily popular in the west) had anything to do with FF7's heavy popularity in the west?

Yes, Sony helped make FFVII a huge game. I don't see how that changes the fact that FFVII, well, became a huge game...

 

[WahHahaha]

This is either trash tier bait or you genuinely believe that Smash fans only play one company's console.

Both are awful takes.

That's not what I said, all I was saying was that I doubt Smash's audience had nostalgia for FF7 or knew who Sephiroth was.

 

[BlondeLombax]

So you don't think that Sony (a big company in the west) releasing FF7 as an exclusive on the PS1 (a console that is also heavily popular in the west) had anything to do with FF7's heavy popularity in the west?

Please refer to the link I posted above. Pictures are worth a billion words, you know.