Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[pupNapoleon]

Didn't see as much of an outcry for Min Min as with Pyra/Mythra though and not a lot of people really discussed about Kazuya if we're talking about hype levels.

I don't think Outcry = Hype (and I hesitate to say you hold this standard either, as I saw zero outcry for Sephiroth, yet he was hype).
Kazuya saw no outcry, you're correct. Yet, he completely satiated majority of Heihachi fans, who many disconfirmed based on personal bias of a Mii costume meaning more than it did.

If 'outcry' were all that mattered, an entire 12 characters of JRPGs would be hype- which would be a let down for a significant portion of Smash fans, and I believe, be received, overall, poorly.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I speak for THE WORLD and the collective consciousness of gamers!

Stand Master: DarthEnderX

 

[True Blue Warrior]

When you really think about it, Little Mac in Smash is sort of like a Punch Out boss.

 

[pupNapoleon]

you misunderstood what I meant. Shadow’s personality in spin-off games shows him as a cocky edgelord who loves to gloat about himself and call himself the ultimate life form.

Considering smash is a spin-off fighting game, his personality would be based off the spin-offs he’s in so I feel if shadow would fit being last because he’d be gloating about how he’s the ultimate life form and would be using the “ultimate” pun in his trailer.

shadow being last would be fitting due to his personality and his overuse of “I’m the ultimate life form” to the point where I could see shadow being last like I said and being used as a pun because the game is called smash bros “ultimate”

I wasn’t referring to the splash screens that pop up when a character is announced. Was referring to his personality and how I could see hon being last so they could make an ultimate pun off him and the game

I fully disagree with Smash basing Shadow off of his eponymous game, and not the games we see him from majority of the time. I'm not sure where that has even happened in Smash Bros, prior.
Additionally, Smash Ultimate is called Smash Special in Japan. Even if it were the same title, I just struggle to believe that you could see them adding a character based on word play.

 

[Theguy123]

I fully disagree with Smash basing Shadow off of his eponymous game, and not the games we see him from majority of the time. I'm not sure where that has even happened in Smash Bros, prior.
Additionally, Smash Ultimate is called Smash Special in Japan. Even if it were the same title, I just struggle to believe that you could see them adding a character based on word play.

again, I never even said they’d add shadow just to make a pun. Where are you getting that from???

 

[SKX31]

Yes, and much like Timesplitters 2, Cortez’s Alts would be completely different characters through time such as:

Harry Tipper, Captain Ash, Mr. Underwood, Amy Chen, Corporal Hart, Chasity Detroit, and Jo-Beth Casey

I do feel that Jo-Beth would have to be edited and censored though, because... well, this design is used in the story and is as such the more prominent one by default. It's definetely not "good boys and girls" territory (it wouldn't pass CERO, I can guarantee that).

So, any changes on the august direct stuff? Has it finally been taken down from everywhere? Has it been reuploaded? Has any info come forth about its situation?

Nope. Nothing new on this front: Nintendo still has it listed (although privated) in the Nintendo Direct archive, and the Twitch video is still up.

And nothing on Nintendo's twitter about upcoming Smash info either.

Pyra/Mythra were very popular in Japan. Min Min and Kazuya are the only two that didn't have as much popularity from either the west or Japan.

TBF, Kazuya's popularity is a bit more spread. The West / Japan both have pretty strong Tekken fanbases, but arguably the main Tekken nexus is South Korea. Not only is it home to some of the most well-known Tekken players such as Knee (the Green Arcade - where a lot of the foremost Tekken players incl. Knee thrived - didn't close its doors until 2018) but a Korea v. Japan 5v5 pulled in over 1 million Korean views. Nintendo does have a presence in South Korea, so I'd imagine that they view that as a welcome bonus when deciding on Kazuya.

Another place where Tekken is surprisingly popular is Pakistan. Sure, it's not that relevant to Smash since Nintendo doesn't have much of a presence there nor does a lot of Switches find their way over there either, but still: people only started to notice when Pakistan's foremost player Arslan Ash started to go to American, Japanese and Korean tournaments - taking EVO 2019 by beating Knee in the Grand Finals and leading to more Pakistani players flying out to US, Japan and Korea.

How about this instead:

Currently, both passes have five characters. One team will hunt you down, the other will defend you at all costs. You cannot mix up characters from the first pass and the second one.

Which one do you choose to defend yourself from the other?

FP2. No question.

You have three characters with stupid range / poking ability (one of which can transform into a blindingly fast rushdown character), one that can build walls and stall until he gets Diamond, and one character whose toolkit is so massive he can handle a surprising amount of situations himself. Sure you might run into some loyalty issues with Sephiroth and Kazuya, but those are exactly the kind of characters that you don't want against you either.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

I don't think Outcry = Hype (and I hesitate to say you hold this standard either, as I saw zero outcry for Sephiroth, yet he was hype).
Kazuya saw no outcry, you're correct. Yet, he completely satiated majority of Heihachi fans, who many disconfirmed based on personal bias of a Mii costume meaning more than it did.

If 'outcry' were all that mattered, an entire 12 characters of JRPGs would be hype- which would be a let down for a significant portion of Smash fans, and I believe, be received, overall, poorly.

Bottom line is that Pyra/Mythra were more popular in Japan than Min Min because there is a bigger fanbase for Xenoblade 2 over ARMS. As for Kazuya, there just didn't seem to be much talk about him compared to other characters, kind of like Terry.

Pyra/Mythra just had more going on over in Japan.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Bottom line is that Pyra/Mythra were more popular in Japan than Min Min because there is a bigger fanbase for Xenoblade 2 over ARMS. As for Kazuya, there just didn't seem to be much talk about him compared to other characters, kind of like Terry.

Pyra/Mythra just had more going on over in Japan.

I think there are more Xenoblade fans than ARMS fans period (sorry ARMS fan, you go strong)

 

[chocolatejr9]

I speak for THE WORLD and the collective consciousness of gamers!

No, you really only speak for Twitter...

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

FP2. No question.

You have three characters with stupid range / poking ability (one of which can transform into a blindingly fast rushdown character), one that can build walls and stall until he gets Diamond, and one character whose toolkit is so massive he can handle a surprising amount of situations himself. Sure you might into some loyalty issues with Sephiroth and Kazuya, but those are exactly the kind of characters that you don't want against you either.

I would also choose the second pass to defend myself, however I didn't have directly the gameplay in mind, lol!
I was thinking the characters from their game of origin. But even taking this in consideration;
-Sephiroth is an alien demi-God
-Pyra and Mythra have extremely useful abilities
-Kazuya is extremely strong in close quarters
-Steve can literally build a shelter in whatever material for you
-Min Min can cook for you

That's why, to make things slightly more balanced, I also added the alts for Byleth and Hero. However I don't think anyone from the first Pass can really defeat Sephiroth, Pyra and Mythra.

Bottom line is that Pyra/Mythra were more popular in Japan than Min Min because there is a bigger fanbase for Xenoblade 2 over ARMS. As for Kazuya, there just didn't seem to be much talk about him compared to other characters, kind of like Terry.

Pyra/Mythra just had more going on over in Japan.

Pyra and Mythra are also more sexy. A good part of what make them popular is that they are good-looking anime girls, one being a Tsundere and the other the Mother type, as well as revealing clothes.

 

[Theguy123]

Bottom line is that Pyra/Mythra were more popular in Japan than Min Min because there is a bigger fanbase for Xenoblade 2 over ARMS. As for Kazuya, there just didn't seem to be much talk about him compared to other characters, kind of like Terry.

Pyra/Mythra just had more going on over in Japan.

if the Japanese smash trailers are anything to go off, more people in Japan were more excited for min min over pyra and myphra.

pyra and myphra’s stand alone trailer has 1.7 million

and min min’s has 3.4 million views.

 

[pupNapoleon]

again, I never even said they’d add shadow just to make a pun. Where are you getting that from???

Everything underlined.

Considering smash is a spin-off fighting game, his personality would be based off the spin-offs he’s in so I feel if shadow would fit being last because he’d be gloating about how he’s the ultimate life form and would be using the “ultimate” pun in his trailer.

shadow being last would be fitting due to...his overuse of “I’m the ultimate life form” to the point where I could see shadow being last like I said and being used as a pun because the game is called smash bros “ultimate”

I wasn’t referring to the splash screens that pop up when a character is announced. Was referring to his personality and how I could see hon being last so they could make an ultimate pun off him and the game

that or shadow the hedgehog just for the ultimate life form pun....just so Nintendo and sega could make that “I’m the ultimate life form” pun (ya know, because the game is smash bros ULTIMATE)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

if the Japanese smash trailers are anything to go off, more people in Japan were more excited for min min over pyra and myphra.

pyra and myphra’s stand alone trailer has 1.7 million

and min min’s has 3.4 million views.

People were not excited for Min Min.
They were excited for Captain Falcon eating noodles.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think there are more Xenoblade fans than ARMS fans period (sorry ARMS fan, you go strong)

Ehhhhh, no Xenoblade sold as well as ARMS did so chances are that's not entirely true,

 

[Theguy123]

People were not excited for Min Min.
They were excited for Captain Falcon eating noodles.

you have literally no proof of that. Not even a source. That’s an absolute ridiculous claim. By that logic people only watched pyra and myphra’s trailer so they could see their large areas and weren’t actually interested in the character.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Bottom line is that Pyra/Mythra were more popular in Japan than Min Min because there is a bigger fanbase for Xenoblade 2 over ARMS. As for Kazuya, there just didn't seem to be much talk about him compared to other characters, kind of like Terry.

Pyra/Mythra just had more going on over in Japan.

You keep using these incongruent arguments- for one character, it is fanbase size, for the immediately preceding one, you throw that away and then make the argument about "talk." You make no mention of fan interaction, immediate reception, or dozens of other factors at play.

If bigger fanbase for a series is the single important factor, then Piranha Plant is the biggest character of DLC, because it comes from the biggest series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

you have literally no proof of that. Not even a source. That’s an absolute ridiculous claim. By that logic people only watched pyra and myphra’s trailer so they could see their large areas and weren’t actually interested in the character.

I don't think I've seen someone fail to see such blatant sarcasm before

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

you have literally no proof of that. Not even a source. That’s an absolute ridiculous claim. By that logic people only watched pyra and myphra’s trailer so they could see their large areas and weren’t actually interested in the character.

I wonder if you really took it first degree or playing 4D chess on me.

 

[Theguy123]

I wonder if you really took it first degree or playing 4D chess on me.

can it be both. I didn’t know if you were being serious or not. My post was just to provoke which probably wasn’t a good idea if I’m honest. It’s hard to tell over the internet when someone’s being serious

 

[Evil Trapezium]

if the Japanese smash trailers are anything to go off, more people in Japan were more excited for min min over pyra and myphra.

pyra and myphra’s stand alone trailer has 1.7 million

and min min’s has 3.4 million views.

Ah I see. I could of sworn that Pyra/Mythra were more hyped in Japan.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Damn. Put me on the spot here but that's okay, I came prepared.

View attachment 325499

Can I haz template plz?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Can I haz template plz?

It's this.

bottom text

 

[subterrestrial]

How about this instead:

Currently, both passes have five characters. One team will hunt you down, the other will defend you at all costs. You cannot mix up characters from the first pass and the second one.

Which one do you choose to defend yourself from the other? Bonus: including the completely differet characters alts.

Just a reminder if you guys forgot who is actually in which:

Team 1;
-Joker
-Hero (all four of them)
-Banjo & Kazooie
-Terry
-Byleth (male and female)

Team 2;
-Min Min
-Steve (as well as Alex, Enderman and Zombie)
-Sephiroth
-Pyra & Mythra
-Kazuya

pfft all u rly need steve and kaz. just build an underground base and use kazuya's multi billionaire ceo powers for infinite food

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

pfft all u rly need steve and kaz. just build an underground base and use kazuya's multi billionaire ceo powers for infinite food

Finally some ****ing common sense in this thread

 

[CureParfait]

How about this instead:

Currently, both passes have five characters. One team will hunt you down, the other will defend you at all costs. You cannot mix up characters from the first pass and the second one.

Which one do you choose to defend yourself from the other? Bonus: including the completely differet characters alts.

Just a reminder if you guys forgot who is actually in which:

Team 1;
-Joker
-Hero (all four of them)
-Banjo & Kazooie
-Terry
-Byleth (male and female)

Team 2;
-Min Min
-Steve (as well as Alex, Enderman and Zombie)
-Sephiroth
-Pyra & Mythra
-Kazuya

Pass 2 by a long shot.

 

[SNEKeater]

From what I've gathered in various circles, the DLC was all decided on by the end of 2018, and negotiations concluded towards the end of the following year. That, and SMT5 from what I understand only began development and was announced to be in development in 2017

To clarify, we don't know how advanced was SMT5 when it was announced, probably during the early stages of development considering the initial trailer was just a brief teaser.
But it was announced on January of 2017, during the Switch presentation. So it's not like it was revealed on summer or at the end of the year.

 

[spicynun]

Wait guys. Big brain idea. That direct was how we knew FF would still only have 2 songs with Ultimate 3 years ago, continuing the meme. Now what if Square wanted this meme scrapped as the next newcomer is from them and he'd canonically have a problem with it and would want it solved? Said character of course being...
View attachment 325479
Time to zetta crunch these yoctograms

Resident math goblin uncle

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

How about this instead:

Currently, both passes have five characters. One team will hunt you down, the other will defend you at all costs. You cannot mix up characters from the first pass and the second one.

Which one do you choose to defend yourself from the other? Bonus: including the completely differet characters alts.

Just a reminder if you guys forgot who is actually in which:

Team 1;
-Joker
-Hero (all four of them)
-Banjo & Kazooie
-Terry
-Byleth (male and female)

Team 2;
-Min Min
-Steve (as well as Alex, Enderman and Zombie)
-Sephiroth
-Pyra & Mythra
-Kazuya

Pass 2 with an asterisk. I don't know how good Byleth gets at using the Sword of the Creator, but if they're able to destroy an entire mountain in one swing, I don't think anyone's really going to stand a chance. Otherwise it's:

• Man with ghosty powers and a gun
• 4 mages that sling random spells
• A bear and a bird
• A punchy guy
• Two masters of arms

vs.

• A boxer with Mr. Fantastic arms, and a boxing glove that shoots lasers
• Four Minecraft PCs that can work together to build the most complicated fortresses imaginable
• What I'm pretty sure is a god-like being as he appears in Super Smash Bros.
• Blade girl who can explode things and alter ego who has sky lasers
• Man with demon form

I don't think there's much of a contest in terms of strength.

 

[N3ON]

if the Japanese smash trailers are anything to go off

They're not. Nor are the western ones. The way Nintendo distributes and tags the trailers results in other uploads siphoning off large amounts of traffic from the official channel, making the metrics unreliable. Very often the official upload isn't even the one with the most views.

You also have to consider the differing formats in which trailers are first shown, whether solo or part of a direct or other presentation, which will also factor into the dissemination of views. And in some cases, some solo trailers go up late, which will hinder the view count.

In general, because of the way Nintendo has handled these trailers, it's just a bad idea to compare official view counts.

 

[FreeFox]

Pass 2 with an asterisk. I don't know how good Byleth gets at using the Sword of the Creator, but if they're able to destroy an entire mountain in one swing, I don't think anyone's really going to stand a chance. Otherwise it's:

• Man with ghosty powers and a gun
• 4 mages that sling random spells
• A bear and a bird
• A punchy guy
• Two masters of arms

vs.

• A boxer with Mr. Fantastic arms, and a boxing glove that shoots lasers
• Four Minecraft PCs that can work together to build the most complicated fortresses imaginable
• What I'm pretty sure is a god-like being as he appears in Super Smash Bros.
• Blade girl who can explode things and alter ego who has sky lasers
• Man with demon form

I don't think there's much of a contest in terms of strength.

I would say some of the first pass can do quite a bit:
Joker can make people change their mind and it has god destroying powers at his peak
And I remember people mentioning something about Byleth being capable of manipulating time or something....

I agree on the rest though.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ok I’ve been playing more NEO TWEWY and recording episodes to upload to Twitch to avoid spoilers…among other reasons and if my three bonuses stages theory is true I hope a TWEWY stage with songs from the original and NEO is one of them

cause damn I absolutely love this song:

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I would say some of the first pass can do quite a bit:
Joker can make people change their mind and it has god destroying powers at his peak
And I remember people mentioning something about Byleth being capable of manipulating time or something....

I think the "protec at all costs" scenario would prevent a mind change, but yeah, Joker would be more powerful if we consider more Personas than just Arsene.

As for Divine Pulse, that one's kind of tricky since while Byleth can rewind time it has a limited number of uses, and is completely useless in a no-win scenario since there's already nothing they can do.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

How about this instead:

Currently, both passes have five characters. One team will hunt you down, the other will defend you at all costs. You cannot mix up characters from the first pass and the second one.

Which one do you choose to defend yourself from the other? Bonus: including the completely differet characters alts.

Just a reminder if you guys forgot who is actually in which:

Team 1;
-Joker
-Hero (all four of them)
-Banjo & Kazooie
-Terry
-Byleth (male and female)

Team 2;
-Min Min
-Steve (as well as Alex, Enderman and Zombie)
-Sephiroth
-Pyra & Mythra
-Kazuya

Going with team 1 because they're full of heroes and heroes have the greatest power of any character, plot armour! No matter how strong Team 2 might look, no matter how many buildings they can build, no matter if they can turn into demons or gods, they're going to fail eventually. Team 1 will pull something out of their ass to save them.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Don't we have an in-Smash-canon to most power?
Sephiroth slayed the demon which conquered all others.

 

[SharkLord]

This isn't relevant to whatever the current topic is, but Touhou 17.5 seems to have gotten a finalized release date
東方剛欲異聞　～ 水没した沈愁地獄 on Steam (steampowered.com)
For context, this is also the game that had a year between the first and second demos, got delayed because of COVID, and now it's releasing after Touhou 18.

I just thought I should bring it up

 

[Ivander]

I think the "protec at all costs" scenario would prevent a mind change, but yeah, Joker would be more powerful if we consider more Personas than just Arsene.

As for Divine Pulse, that one's kind of tricky since while Byleth can rewind time it has a limited number of uses, and is completely useless in a no-win scenario since there's already nothing they can do.

I mean, if we are adding gameplay elements, a reminder that Banjo and Kazooie not only have Wonderwing, but also, in fact, cheats for infinite items and whatnot. Infinite Wonderwing is a thing.

 

[MattX20]

To clarify, we don't know how advanced was SMT5 when it was announced, probably during the early stages of development considering the initial trailer was just a brief teaser.
But it was announced on January of 2017, during the Switch presentation. So it's not like it was revealed on summer or at the end of the year.

Even so, the development timeline doesn't match when compared to XBC2, ARMS, or even FE3H, all of which were either too late for the base roster or the first fighter pass.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I mean don’t get me wrong Captain Falcon eating ramen was hype
Though seeing Kazuya toss him was sad

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean, if we are adding gameplay elements, a reminder that Banjo and Kazooie not only have Wonderwing, but also, in fact, cheats for infinite items and whatnot. Infinite Wonderwing is a thing.

Wonderwing is powerful, but I don't think cheats count as a canon ability.

 

[FreeFox]

Don't we have an in-Smash-canon to most power?
Sephiroth slayed the demon which conquered all others.

Kirby is probably at the top of the whole list.