Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

A crowd character would be a fighter balanced with mainly free-for-alls in mind, imo.

So, a lot of long-reaching swipes and strong finishers but with frame data that would fell apart against Fox in Final Destination, no items, 1v1.

Yeah but the balance stuff does make one wonder how big the hitboxes would be as Sakurai's favourite balance tool for long range is noodle hitboxes but that clearly cannot work.


Sidenote, I mentioned Dracula and was reminded of this

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Ngl Dracula kinda hype with the f.S comboing into grab

 

[Gengar84]

I wonder what the best way to carry over the Warriors combo system into Smash would be. The way Warriors works is weak attacks automatically form a combo of at least 6 strikes but you can perform a different combo finisher at any point in the chain by using a strong attack.

 

[Theguy123]

So the koei tecmo talk on this page has gotten me thinking. What are some big games/franchises that didn’t get spirits events.

Maybe we could make a list and use that as a base to see what other content they got and if they could end up being the last spot on the roster. Off the top of my head we’ve not had

Luigi Manson 3
The great ace attorney
Shin megami tensei iii hd
Cadence of hyrule
Katriella and the millionaire conspiracy(layton 7)
Crash 4 it’s about time, crash trilogy
The ninja guiden switch release
Currently no more heroes 3

what others are we missing. They must have releases on the switch and they must have come after ultimates release. They also can’t be spin-off games and have to be big main games for their series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I wonder what the best way to carry over the Warriors combo system into Smash would be. The way Warriors works is weak attacks automatically form a combo of at least 6 strikes but you can perform a different combo finisher at any point in the chain by using a strong attack.

A popular concept I've seen for Kiryu movesets is neutral B as the Strong Attack button as Yakuza has a similar system, no reason why it couldn't work after all

 

[Gengar84]

A popular concept I've seen for Kiryu movesets is neutral B as the Strong Attack button as Yakuza has a similar system, no reason why it couldn't work after all

Yeah, that was actually my exact thought. The other specials could be things like charging across the stage on his horse (Red Hare), arrows, and other things not part of his normal chain combos.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

So the koei tecmo talk on this page has gotten me thinking. What are some big games/franchises that didn’t get spirits events.

Maybe we could make a list and use that as a base to see what other content they got and if they could end up being the last spot on the roster. Off the top of my head we’ve not had

Luigi Manson 3
The great ace attorney
Shin megami tensei iii hd
Cadence of hyrule
Katriella and the millionaire conspiracy(layton 7)
Crash 4 it’s about time, crash trilogy
The ninja guiden switch release
Currently no more heroes 3

what others are we missing. They must have releases on the switch and they must have come after ultimates release. They also can’t be spin-off games and have to be big main games for their series.

I was going to bring up the Mega Man Zero series and the ZX duology (i.e. Mega Man Zero/ZX Legacy Collection), seeing as how they're both a sequel to the Mega Man X series (which itself is a sequel to the classic Mega Man series), but seeing as how the Mega Man Zero series only has Zero (Z) as a spirit and the ZX duology only has Vent with Model X & Model ZX as spirits... yeah, I think that's out of the question.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Cadence of hyrule

That could've been a 2019 spirit event easily.
Idk what happened tbh but who knows

 

[Gengar84]

I’m still disappointed that the original Hyrule Warriors never got any content in Smash. That game had so many amazing songs that would have been great to fight to.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’m still disappointed that the original Hyrule Warriors never got any content in Smash. That game had so many amazing songs that would have been great to fight to.

At the very least a Lana spirit would have been a no brainer

 

[Gengar84]

At the very least a Lana spirit would have been a no brainer

Lana is actually my friend’s most wanted character. I usually say anything is possible but she’s kind of stretching it. Still, she would make for a really unique and interesting character if she somehow defied all odds and made it in.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

So the koei tecmo talk on this page has gotten me thinking. What are some big games/franchises that didn’t get spirits events.

Maybe we could make a list and use that as a base to see what other content they got and if they could end up being the last spot on the roster. Off the top of my head we’ve not had

Luigi Manson 3
The great ace attorney
Shin megami tensei iii hd
Cadence of hyrule
Katriella and the millionaire conspiracy(layton 7)
Crash 4 it’s about time, crash trilogy
The ninja guiden switch release
Currently no more heroes 3

what others are we missing. They must have releases on the switch and they must have come after ultimates release. They also can’t be spin-off games and have to be big main games for their series.

Mario Maker 2 didn't get one. I guess you could also count New Pokemon Snap and Mystery Dungeon DX.

 

[Theguy123]

Mario Maker 2 didn't get one. I guess you could also count New Pokemon Snap and Mystery Dungeon DX.

true. I don’t know if this is correct and I can’t even remember where I heard it (it might of been from this page a while back) but the lack of Pokemon snap spirits is probably because the Pokémon team are strict apparently with their artwork and what can be used.

 

[SKX31]

A crowd character would be a fighter balanced with mainly free-for-alls in mind, imo.

So, a lot of long-reaching swipes and strong finishers but with frame data that would fell apart against Fox in Final Destination, no items, 1v1.

Yeah but the balance stuff does make one wonder how big the hitboxes would be as Sakurai's favourite balance tool for long range is noodle hitboxes but that clearly cannot work.

Another one of his favorites is making the character move like molasses compared to the rest of the cast, although I'm not sure if a DW rep would move that slowly.

Rather low shield damage / shield stun perhaps?
Having -esque sweetspots / sourspots, but somewhat modified - to discourage excessive camping?


Some weaknesses do feel given (kinda big body, start up on the attacks) though.

Okay, I'm spitballing here, but...

Wait a sec, you're telling me that Lu Bu would be amazing at this?

If so I'm instantly going to main him.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

 

[Gengar84]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

I would love to be able to save over 100 Stage Builder stages as well as view past the top hundred online. I feel like we’re missing out on a lot of great stages because we can’t see anything past the top 100 for each category.

 

[Laniv]

So the koei tecmo talk on this page has gotten me thinking. What are some big games/franchises that didn’t get spirits events.

Maybe we could make a list and use that as a base to see what other content they got and if they could end up being the last spot on the roster. Off the top of my head we’ve not had

Luigi Manson 3
The great ace attorney
Shin megami tensei iii hd
Cadence of hyrule
Katriella and the millionaire conspiracy(layton 7)
Crash 4 it’s about time, crash trilogy
The ninja guiden switch release
Currently no more heroes 3

what others are we missing. They must have releases on the switch and they must have come after ultimates release. They also can’t be spin-off games and have to be big main games for their series.

Does Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 count for this

 

[Jocario Zero]

I’m still disappointed that the original Hyrule Warriors never got any content in Smash. That game had so many amazing songs that would have been great to fight to.

I was really surprised that we didn't get spirits of Hyrule Warriors Link and Zelda.

And the music...man...I NEED eclipse of the sun so badly in smash.

 

[Theguy123]

Does Puyo Puyo Tetris 2 count for this

probably. Is it mainline in the puyo puyo series or is it a spin-off to it. If it’s a spin-off then probably not

 

[MasterCheef]

Uh... that would take a really long time, especialy the "popular" part, because we'd have to take into account what's popular in different parts of the fanbase. For example, certain characters only show up in the western side of the fandom, others only show up in Japan, but they're really popular in these places.

There's also a big difference between popular and likely.

OK. if anyone could produce a list of the top 10 to 20 most likely Non Nintendo reps it would be most helpful.

 

[Gengar84]

I was really surprised that we didn't get spirits of Hyrule Warriors Link and Zelda.

And the music...man...I NEED eclipse of the sun so badly in smash.

I would absolutely love it if we got Lu Bu as the final character and they updated the Zelda, Persona, Fire Emblem, and Dragon Quest stages with music from their Warriors spin-offs (kind of like how Cloud got a new Final Smash with Sephiroth’s inclusion).

 

[Theguy123]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

don’t know if this would count but I’d like to see extra cgi cutscenes added to the WOL. Just a bunch made and then scattered into the WOL mode.

OK. if anyone could produce a list of the top 10 to 20 most likely Non Nintendo reps it would be most helpful.

Can’t make a list on the top 10-20 most likely but could probably list some franchises that are most likely

Koei tecmo
Sega
Level 5
Atlus
Konami
Snk (more doubtful on this one though)

that’s practically all the big Japan franchises in Japan without getting into the less know stuff.

did put Namco in this as I doubt we’re getting 2 Namco reps back to back and I didn’t put capcom in this as they flooded the fighters pass with new mii costumes and returning mii costumes.

doubtful but not entirely doubtful on more snk content. Doubtful because they were flooded with content with terry and then have dipped since then and not made a hint whatsoever to suggest they’re getting more content in this pass.

these are the most likely Japan companies. Westerns a whole different thing because Steve taking 5 years despite Nintendo and Microsoft being extremely close kinda gives you the vibe that with a western company they’re not as close with (activision, ea, Ubisoft as an example) would take longer or a round the same amount of time even if their moveset is more simple compared to Steve.

 

[Gengar84]

don’t know if this would count but I’d like to see extra cgi cutscenes added to the WOL. Just a bunch made and then scattered into the WOL mode.



Can’t make a list on the top 10-20 most likely but could probably list some franchises that are most likely

Koei tecmo
Sega
Level 5
Atlus
Konami
Snk (more doubtful on this one though)

that’s practically all the big Japan franchises in Japan without getting into the less know stuff.

did put Namco in this as I doubt we’re getting 2 Namco reps back to back and I didn’t put capcom in this as they flooded the fighters pass with new mii costumes and returning mii costumes.

doubtful but not entirely doubtful on more snk content. Doubtful because they were flooded with content with terry and then have dipped since then and not made a hint whatsoever to suggest they’re getting more content in this pass.

these are the most likely Japan companies. Westerns a whole different thing because Steve taking 5 years despite Nintendo and Microsoft being extremely close kinda gives you the vibe that with a western company they’re not as close with (activision, ea, Ubisoft as an example) would take longer or a round the same amount of time even if their moveset is more simple compared to Steve.

Yeah, that’s why I think that if we get another western character, it would likely be a third Microsoft rep. They still have a ton of great characters to choose from like Master Chief, Doomguy, the Battletoads, Fulgore, and Joanna Dark.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

Rie QoL doesn't mean expansion packs

 

[subterrestrial]

I saw someone say Sakurai didn’t actually say “a while” in Japanese, but I don’t speak the language so not sure if that’s true or not…

he didn’t even mention the timeframe in japanese it was just the typical ”until next time”

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

I think the existing modes are fine as-is. The DLC could be worked into World of Light better, but I'm not sure there's enough DLC Spirits for a full on new DLC area.

In terms of actual quality of life features, I think the only two big ones that you could do is put the Hazard Toggle on the Stage Select Screen, and the Spirit Team builder menu on the Character Select Screen. That way, both can be accessed without having to leave the current mode and come back after making a single adjustment.

 

[SKX31]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

All right, so:

* Connection strength / ping markers when playing online, damnit. Okay, this is like polishing a car crash, but would still be nice.

* Ability to go back to the ruleset as well as Stage Select when on the CSS, instead of having to go back two screens (Stage Select, then Ruleset). Very late edit: This is already a thing in the main Smash mode, but only in the main Smash mode. Not in several other modes such as Training and Mob Smash for some reason. Still, being able to go back two screens where the CSS is would be nice. I should admit, I forgot this was feasible since I haven't been using the main Smash mode a lot.

* Include the option of having timeouts be decided by "# of stocks / points left -> least damage taken as a second tiebreaker". I'm not asking to remove Sudden Death entirely here - but the current "# of stocks left -> if stocks are tied SUDDEN DEATH" system being the only one means that it's much easier for say trolls to camp for sudden death if they're behind in damage (which turns a scenario where they're behind into effectively a coin toss). No, the least damage system does not entirely stop trolls, but it discourages such camping by ensuring that the player in the lead has a finer margin.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

* Ability to go back to the ruleset as well as Stage Select when on the CSS, instead of having to go back two screens (Stage Select, then Ruleset). Also applicable to other modes where one selects stage first, then character - being able to go back two screens as well would be nice.

This one too. I want this one too.

Also by "big changes" I meant things other than balance patches if that wasn't what everyone had already assumed.

 

[Slime Scholar]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

A rematch button for local play.

Please.

 

[Perkilator]

Question: Sora as CP5 instead of Byleth or Master Chief as CP7 instead of Steve? Just curious

 

[Sucumbio]

Kinda wish you could change characters in Quickplay without dropping from the current lobby or whatever. It's a decision that has plagued me since ultimate came out as it never made sense me why this was the case. But I understand if such a change would be difficult to implement or if choosing to make players stay the same character was intended to help with overall online processing or some other coding decision.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Kinda wish you could change characters in Quickplay without dropping from the current lobby or whatever. It's a decision that has plagued me since ultimate came out as it never made sense me why this was the case. But I understand if such a change would be difficult to implement or if choosing to make players stay the same character was intended to help with overall online processing or some other coding decision.

There should be an option to toggle the CSS on & off in lobbies.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Kinda wish you could change characters in Quickplay without dropping from the current lobby or whatever. It's a decision that has plagued me since ultimate came out as it never made sense me why this was the case. But I understand if such a change would be difficult to implement or if choosing to make players stay the same character was intended to help with overall online processing or some other coding decision.

It's also a decision that's in a lot of fighting games, bafflingly enough. It's slightly easier in arenas, but I dunno why they even do it. Maybe it saves resources somehow?

 

[MattX20]

The only things I could ask for from Ultimate at this point that aren't character related are for Pac Maze to return (PacMan deserves better than PacLand to be his stage) and Break the Targets

 

[subterrestrial]

It's also a decision that's in a lot of fighting games, bafflingly enough. It's slightly easier in arenas, but I dunno why they even do it. Maybe it saves resources somehow?

they said early on that they removed the ability to switch chars because of the new gsp system. imo that makes complete sense, I just wish gsp wasn't so fundamentally flawed as a ranking system in the first place.

switching characters between online matches is a very basic function in fighting games that lowkey prolongs the overall lifespan

 

[Ivander]

Random question, but if the final presentation added some QoL features, like additions to existing modes, what would you like to see?

-Can do single Boss fights as part of Spirit Rematch
-More space for Stage Creator(or at least, some background stuff take very little space), as well as being able to save more stages.

 

[Sucumbio]

they said early on that they removed the ability to switch chars because of the new gsp system. imo that makes complete sense, I just wish gsp wasn't so fundamentally flawed as a ranking system in the first place.

switching characters between online matches is a very basic function in fighting games that lowkey prolongs the overall lifespan

Yes I agree. I think it'd have made way more sense to tie GSP specifically to a player rather than each character having it's own GSP. Not to mention counterpicking characters has always been allowed since brawl and is still allowed in arenas.

 

[Bobthealligator]

So was Dracula, such is the joy of public domain, meaning no royalties or anything have to be paid, biggest issue imo is how you'd make a character who's specifically great at crowd control in Smash and knowing Sakurai, it wouldn't be too hard

Also it's worth considering that Dynasty Warriors Lu Bu is so far removed from his inspiration that he is basically an original character rather than historical figure.

I wonder what the best way to carry over the Warriors combo system into Smash would be. The way Warriors works is weak attacks automatically form a combo of at least 6 strikes but you can perform a different combo finisher at any point in the chain by using a strong attack.

I kind of had an idea of having unique special moves when used after other moves. So you'd spread the weak attacks throughout the normals and give him different specials if used immediately following the weak attacks. Sort of like the Shoto's attack cancelling mechanic, but more unique

 

[7NATOR]

So was it ever figured out why the August Directs were taken down?

I will say that in the Scenario that those Directs were taken down because of some sort of August Direct for Smash happening in the future, I actually think it's very likely we will be getting some sort of Content that's not just CP11

I imagine they wouldn't take down these directs if it was just a Sakurai presents, or something unrelated to Smash, so it looks like a General Smash direct. Sakurai presents have only displayed the content related to Specific fighter, and that is what we got with all the DLC Fighters, but Smash directs are more broad in what they show

 

[Theguy123]

Inb4 the final character is from super meat boy and sakurai being credited in the credits was the hint we never knew existed. I’m only half joking.

 

[Dukefire]

If there are any Indie Characters left for the running, The Knight (Hollow Knight), Quote/Curly (Cave Story), Cadence (Crypt of the Necrodancer), and Gunvolt may be it. If not, Mii Costumes like the other 4.

Again, even if these characters doesn't make it, they could if another entry of Smash Bros is possible. Which of course won't be in the hands of Sakurai as he is wrapping up Ultimate.