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Speaking of which, has anyone here actually gotten a character they wanted?
When it comes to Smash, Sephiroth was like my 2nd MW, which is kinda funny because I thought him to be the most impossible out of the bunch (between Shadow, Zero, Dante and such) yet here we are.
Still, aside from him, I think I've never ever gotten a character I actively wanted (wasn't into FF7 when Cloud was added).
I've wanted in the game since I was a dumb, copyright-ignorant 9-year-old playing Smash 64.
The very moment Sonic Adventure was playable on the Gamecube, I wanted in Smash. I got into gaming during the whole SNES/Genesis War, that era was weirdly super important to me. The wild west online rumors at the time claiming he was unlockable in Melee only fueled that fire.
Seeing what Sakurai did with Pit in Brawl made me start seriously jonesing for more retro reps. In particular, I campaigned hard for . Duck Hunt was my very first exposure to video games ever as a wee tot, but he felt like an absolute impossibility.
Mega Man's reveal trailer made me downright crave a playable . Mega Man's entire look and moveset was masterfully based around his NES appearances, and I knew that Sakurai could work the same magic with Simon.
During the lead-up to Smash 4, I started feeling like Peach's alt was an absolute waste of potential. I personally love Daisy (thanks Mario Strikers), and with the rise of more clones and alternate skins like Alph and the Koopalings, I wanted Daisy to get more serious representation. Never thought it would happen in a million years though.
Just like with . I got really into Metroid around the time Smash 4 was first announced and was really hoping for another rep. I'll admit, I was one of those "he's 100% never getting in" people up until E3 2018...
All of those characters - along with discovering new ones over time like etc, as well as some incredible Mii costume representation and the secondhand joy I've felt toward other fandoms when their character got announced - I really can't say that I'm unhappy with what I've been given. Sure, there's no Skull Kid, Lyn, an actual Shantae, Neku, Amaterasu, Nightmare, Paper Mario, Eggman, Doomguy, etc, but at this point, like...so what haha. This game is a damn gift regardless.
Go back 2 pages on Opposum's reply to you, now, look at the claim you just made about how higher calibur franchises don't get one offs despite Pokemon constantly getting the hot new character from the hot new game and how we've gotten multiple franchises with one offs at this point, this is why everyone's tired of FE bad, people just spread such blatant falsehoods, to the point I saw someone say the issue with FE fatigue is because the series aesthetics don't fit Western tastes. You know, medieval fantasy like Lord of the Rings
Luigi's Mansion is already considered to be a part of the Super Mario series and not its own thing.
It would be weird if Luigi wasn't a Luigi's Mansion character, but just as weird if he wasn't a Super Mario character since he's one of its most important characters.
If implemented in this game, it would really screw with My Music, removing most of the songs from the Luigi's Mansion stage, and removing the Luigi's Mansion tracks from the Super Mario stages.
EDIT: I think he would get a special victory fanfare though.
I personally don't think it or the other Super Mario spin-offs that present themselves as Super Mario games (like Mario Kart, Mario Party, Paper Mario, etc.) should be considered different series, and that applies to the other series's spin-offs as well*.
*With the exception of fusion titles. Games like Mario + Rabbids: Kingdom Battle, and Cadence of Hyrule have one foot in one series and another in the other so I don't really know how you would handle them.
Go back 2 pages on Opposum's reply to you, now, look at the claim you just made about how higher calibur franchises don't get one offs despite Pokemon constantly getting the hot new character from the hot new game and how we've gotten multiple franchises with one offs at this point, this is why everyone's tired of FE bad, people just spread such blatant falsehoods, to the point I saw someone say the issue with FE fatigue is because the series aesthetics don't fit Western tastes. You know, medieval fantasy like Lord of the Rings
Why would I say this if I am against one offs? I am totally on board for other franchises also getting one offs. Where is the lie? I dont get where I am lying. If any franchise of equal standing to FE, had the same amount of atention, it would get an equal amount of hate (it wouldnt matter if it was Star Fox/Metroid/ etc). Its just reality. Its not about the quality of the games, its about the amount of content and atention they receive considering their stance.
In all this time talking about FE, I havent directly said anything against the content it has received because I have nothing against any of the characters or stages they have added. Good for them!
But there is no blatant falsehoods in stating the fact that the amount of content that FE has connsistently gotten has contributed to its hate within the fandom. You may not agree with it and that is fine. But lets not paint the community as irrational just because of its context.
Also, I dont understand your point about Pokemon. Pokemon IS the biggest franchise and the one with the biggest cast. Of course, they are going to keep adding a ton of one offs. The same applies to Mario (ex: Piranah Plant). The biggest franchises can get way more leeway because they are biggest. You dont hear people complaining about too many Mario characters for a reason. Context is important.
My most wanted when Smash Switch was announced were the return Snake and Wolf.
Ridley was my most wanted that has made it in yet.
KRool was also on my wanted list.
Out of all potential echo fighters, Ken was the one that 'had' to be there.
Min Min was my favorite ARMS character that I wanted since Spring Man got deconfirmed.
I wanted a Tekken character and Kazuya fits that niche perfectly.
I don't think I got a character I wanted, per say. I ended up getting characters I never knew I wanted (Incineroar, Ken, Terry, Min Min). I'll say for sure I did want a Tekken rep ever since Heihachi mentions back during Smash 4. So Kazuya making it is pretty much the biggest highlight of Ultimate for me. At least for now as the last fighter could blow my mind.
Though the ones I'd say I wanted for sure were Krystal and Bomberman but they got Assisted. The only other ones I really want would be anyone from Streets of Rage or Earthworm Jim.
My question would then be, why not? If fire emblem can get one off characters in smash, why is it that other Nintendo IPs of higher caliber dont?
FE is an anomaly in smash in many senses. Characters/stages added to each game. Lots of DLC. Many are even there as promotion picks. Then you compare its standing with other IPs and the whole thing gets bizarre. Metroid needed a huge fan demand just to get two more characters. Both Kirby and LoZ seem to be unable to get any new characters in despite being huge franchises of Nintendo with great fan demand for smash characters.
Now, the whole thing isnt whether they deserve the characters or the reasoning behind nintendo. Its about why it receives the hate it has. And its not hard to see why. It seems unfair for IPs in similar standings to fire emblem to receive less and even less fair for franchises above it.
Well, I'm going to take this as a genuine question and try to answer to the best of my ability:
Short answer: It was convenient at the time for each character and EVERYONE IS HERE brought everyone back no exceptions.
Long answer:
Fire Emblem does not just have a rotating cast, it has a rotating cast of major characters, straight up protagonists whom are only important within their own universe. Not many other series are quite like that and the ones that are generally also have a large amount of characters per game in the series. (Earthbound, Xenoblade, Pokemon). Meanwhile Metroid, Zelda, and Kirby revolve around their protagonists and repeated enemies, a lineup which won't ever get outdated by the nature of their series. Kirby can be used to market his first game to every other game in his series going forward. Marth will market only his own games.
The only franchise to get regular newcomers despite a fixed main cast is Mario and you can guess why that is.
On top of that, each Smash game that has an FE character added does so with its own circumstances, Ultimate in particular ignores the context of an individual character addition to fulfill the "Everyone is Here" quota.
Marth is the progenitor protagonist and thus gets special treatment as the face of the series, but as a newcomer, even Sakurai had doubts about including him due to not releasing overseas.
Roy was added to Melee as a clone promoting his upcoming game and brought back in Smash 4 DLC as one of 2 popular Melee veterans.
Ike was added to Brawl in a game where Roy was cut and Fire Emblem actually had an international appeal, promoting FE's big return to main consoles.
Robin was from Awakening, a then recent game which literally broke FE into the mainstream and not only prevented the series's death but made it a reliable mainstay franchise.
Corrin promoted his recent game, with Sakurai having to be convinced with their body morph
Byleth also promoted his recent game, with Sakurai only being given a say if he isn't able to make a moveset, which obviously he could.
Lucina and Chrom are low-resource clones who only exist thanks to a template they can use and their ability to please fans with barely any investment on Nintendo's part.
Most were promotional for games only a character in that cast can represent. The few that aren't promotional are explicitly kept due to fan demand. Normally promotions are unnecessary past their game's relevancy but guess what Ultimate's big tagline is?
This is why things "are the way they are." It may be cynical and might encroach on the Smash fantasy wonderland of fan-favorite character inclusions with "convenient business decisions" but Nintendo doesn't particularly... care. You may not like how they do it, I certainly don't, but now you know why.
FE is not an "anomaly"...
Nintendo isn't arbitrarily pushing FE more than what is typical for a series because there's some sort of conspiracy or a secret FE fan hiding among the upper ranks if that's what you were thinking.
Anyway, this is assuming this is a real question and not just venting.
Well, I'm going to take this as a genuine question and try to answer to the best of my ability:
Short answer: It was convenient at the time for each character and EVERYONE IS HERE brought everyone back no exceptions.
Long answer: Fire Emblem does not just have a rotating cast, it has a rotating cast of major characters, straight up protagonists whom are only important within their own universe. Not many other series are quite like that and the ones that are generally also have a large amount of characters per game in the series. (Earthbound, Xenoblade, Pokemon). Meanwhile Metroid, Zelda, and Kirby revolve around their protagonists and repeated enemies, a lineup which won't ever get outdated by the nature of their series. Kirby can be used to market his first game to every other game in his series going forward. Marth will market only his own games.
The only franchise to get regular newcomers despite a fixed main cast is Mario and you can guess why that is.
On top of that, each Smash game that has an FE character added does so with its own circumstances, Ultimate in particular ignores the context of an individual character addition to fulfill the "Everyone is Here" quota.
Marth is the progenitor protagonist and thus gets special treatment as the face of the series, but as a newcomer, even Sakurai had doubts about including him due to not releasing overseas.
Roy was added to Melee as a clone promoting his upcoming game and brought back in Smash 4 DLC as one of 2 popular Melee veterans.
Ike was added to Brawl in a game where Roy was cut and Fire Emblem actually had an international appeal, promoting FE's big return to main consoles.
Robin was from Awakening, a then recent game which literally broke FE into the mainstream and not only prevented the series's death but made it a reliable mainstay franchise.
Corrin promoted his recent game, with Sakurai having to be convinced with their body morph
Byleth also promoted his recent game, with Sakurai only being given a say if he isn't able to make a moveset, which obviously he could.
Lucina and Chrom are low-resource clones who only exist thanks to a template they can use and their ability to please fans with barely any investment on Nintendo's part.
Most were promotional for games only a character in that cast can represent. The few that aren't promotional are explicitly kept due to fan demand. Normally promotions are unnecessary past their game's relevancy but guess what Ultimate's big tagline is?
This is why things "are the way they are." It may be cynical and might encroach on the Smash fantasy wonderland of fan-favorite character inclusions with "convenient business decisions" but Nintendo doesn't particularly... care. You may not like how they do it, I certainly don't, but now you know why.
That is, assuming this is a real question and not just venting.
I can totally get behind this explanation. Thanks!
Also, just to make absolutely clear my stance. I am fine with new representation in smash for them in future games, I just hope they start giving their other series some much needed love.
I can totally get behind this explanation. Thanks!
Also, just to make absolutely clear my stance. I am fine with new representation in smash for them in future games, I just hope they start giving their other series some much needed love.
Same. I actually have 2 FEs as part of my secondaries/fav characters in this game, those two being Roy and Chrom with Lucina not so far behind.
Though I can't help but wish series like Zelda or Kirby (main-stay cast or not they still have amazing characters to choose from) could get their fair share.
Speaking of which, has anyone here actually gotten a character they wanted?
When it comes to Smash, Sephiroth was like my 2nd MW, which is kinda funny because I thought him to be the most impossible out of the bunch (between Shadow, Zero, Dante and such) yet here we are.
Still, aside from him, I think I've never ever gotten a character I actively wanted (wasn't into FF7 when Cloud was added).
I'm pretty sure at this point, Fire Emblem has become one of Nintendo's higher caliber series, regardless of what people try to argue. Not just with Awakening, Fates and Three Houses being successful, especially Three Houses becoming the highest selling console FE game, but also Fire Emblem Heroes being their most successful Mobile game, more so than even Mario Kart Tour and Animal Crossing Pocket Camp.
Uh Banjo? You're gonna raise the game's age rating. Banjo? Banjo!
My guesses are thus:
He's from Warcraft.
That's Death from Darksiders
Nope. Only monkey's paws. I really got robbed on Steve though. Had I seriously considered him in the context of Super Smash Bros. before his reveal, he probably would have been that "yay it's the guy I like!" character for me, but I didn't, so I was initially more happy for my sister than myself. lol
Not sure how this post is relevant to mine, but I do agree with this sentiment to some extent. He's no Sheik or anything, but I would agree with the notion of him having a higher skill floor, at least, higher than Byleths.
It's sort of inevitable that you'd have blatant complaints or arrogant requesting and negatively as a whole and what not.
Here's the thing though.
No one can know of every game series ever to exist:
Like tell me right now, have you heard of the Toxic Bunny series by Celestial Games? If you say yes, I'll be impressed af though 0_0
Point being, you can try to expose yourself to as many series as you can, but the key is to respect the work of any series, and not troll and intoxicate the media to agree with you or be lashed at for, say, liking JRPGs and not Platformers. And respect opinions.
If you don't know something, that's fine! Understand it when someone explains it, so you know it. Simple.
Don't assume that just because you've never heard of a series and think it's weird, everyone else has identical mindsets to you.
There's a difference between being salty respectfully and being aggressively salty. Don't be the latter. EVER.
Speaking of which, has anyone here actually gotten a character they wanted?
When it comes to Smash, Sephiroth was like my 2nd MW, which is kinda funny because I thought him to be the most impossible out of the bunch (between Shadow, Zero, Dante and such) yet here we are.
Still, aside from him, I think I've never ever gotten a character I actively wanted (wasn't into FF7 when Cloud was added).
Not really. Back in Smash 4 speculation, I just kinda went with whoever we got as newcomers, I was just happy we were getting another Smash game (I grew up on Brawl and loved it so another game was fun to think about and watch happen). I was honestly more concerned for my favorite veterans returning in that game.
Since Ultimate didn’t cut anyone and brought back previously cut veterans, I was just happy to see some of the last few heavy-hitters get in. Kinda just, shared in the joy of other fandoms getting their characters. I already had back all the veterans I wanted to return via Everyone Is Here, so everything else was a cherry on top.
Since Ultimate DLC, there haven’t been too many characters I’ve been campaigning hard for. And those that I do want, all likely have smaller chances. Apart from Min Min, who I liked as my favorite ARMS character and only really started backing after an ARMS rep was revealed (since I had initially given up on ARMS getting a character after Spring Man’s AT). But that aside, none of my most wanteds have gotten in. Half of that is probably because I had more interest in veterans most of the time, but it doesn’t upset me too much. Sure, I’d still rather have a handful of characters in than not, but we only have limited spots. Plus, if you look at my signature…I’ve been having quite a lot of fun with the characters I already play.
I will say I’ve kinda lost a bit of the joy of getting new characters throughout this DLC cycle, especially those I don’t have any ties to, but eh. I’m not going to waste time complaining about something I never had a say in/don’t have control over/can’t change. I’m already happy with what we’ve got, and even if I don’t necessarily know the new characters coming in, they’re all still fun to play as for the most part. Ultimately, I can live with this game as it stands now, even if there are a few more additions I’d like. But that’s neither here nor there…yet (maybe?).
Technically no, the only one character I have truly desired for years is Isaac. BUT, there's a few inclusions I was still very happy with.
Banjo was considered my 2nd choice. I always thought he belonged in Smash, even though he wasn't Nintendo anymore. I'm glad they made it happen. However, didn't like the moveset. Bummer. Just can't get on with it. The bouncing grenade did it for me. I'm no good at catching it.
Sephiroth is a character I kinda forgot I wanted, because I didn't think he'd ever get the pick. When pushed to choose another Square Enix rep, he was my next choice. Was blindsided by the reveal, and I do like his moves a lot, I just suck.
The Belmonts weren't a choice of mine but again it was a case of being happy to see Castlevania representation in the series.
That's about it. Ironically, after the Hero trailer I was like "Oh cool, good for Dragon Quest fans." Then I played him and I've mained him for 300 hours now. Hero totally saved Smash Ultimate for me.
Speaking of which, has anyone here actually gotten a character they wanted?
When it comes to Smash, Sephiroth was like my 2nd MW, which is kinda funny because I thought him to be the most impossible out of the bunch (between Shadow, Zero, Dante and such) yet here we are.
Still, aside from him, I think I've never ever gotten a character I actively wanted (wasn't into FF7 when Cloud was added).
Come on, dude. I said this earlier but Fire Emblem's stage representation is in no way excessive...and if anything it's actually under represented in this regard, since it only has one more stage than Kid Icarus, and the same amount as Earthbound. Two three-game franchises that are significantly more obscure and niche.
Sixteen main series games, or seventeen if you include Heroes, plus three additional spinoff games, two trading card games, and several drama CDs...and out of all of that, the series only has four stages. And of those four, only two are specific locations that can be tied to the games themselves: Arena Ferox from Awakening and Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses. Coliseum is just a generic conglomeration of the various arenas within the series, and Castle Siege isn't even based on any specific games or scenes in particular, being purposely generic to just "feel like Fire Emblem."
The fact that it took until Smash 4 3DS for Fire Emblem to get an actual stage from the games themselves when Fire Emblem has had playable characters since Melee says it all, really. Stage representation for the series has been absolutely pathetic.
Come on, dude. I said this earlier but Fire Emblem's stage representation is in no way excessive...and if anything it's actually under*represented in this regard, since it only has one more stage than Kid Icarus, and the same amount as *Earthbound. Two three-game franchises that are significantly more obscure and niche.
Sixteen main series games, or seventeen if you include Heroes, plus three additional spinoff games, two trading card games, and several drama CDs...and out of all of that, the series only has four stages. And of those four, only two are specific locations that can be tied to the games themselves: Arena Ferox from Awakening and Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses. Coliseum is just a generic conglomeration of the various arenas within the series, and Castle Siege isn't even based on any specific games or scenes in particular, being purposely generic to just "feel like Fire Emblem."
The fact that it took until Smash 4 3DS for Fire Emblem to get an actual stage from the games themselves when Fire Emblem has had playable characters since Melee says it all, really. Stage representation for the series has been absolutely pathetic.
Come on, dude. I said this earlier but Fire Emblem's stage representation is in no way excessive...and if anything it's actually under represented in this regard, since it only has one more stage than Kid Icarus, and the same amount as Earthbound. Two three-game franchises that are significantly more obscure and niche.
Sixteen main series games, or seventeen if you include Heroes, plus three additional spinoff games, two trading card games, and several drama CDs...and out of all of that, the series only has four stages. And of those four, only two are specific locations that can be tied to the games themselves: Arena Ferox from Awakening and Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses. Coliseum is just a generic conglomeration of the various arenas within the series, and Castle Siege isn't even based on any specific games or scenes in particular, being purposely generic to just "feel like Fire Emblem."
The fact that it took until Smash 4 3DS for Fire Emblem to get an actual stage from the games themselves when Fire Emblem has had playable characters since Melee says it all, really. Stage representation for the series has been absolutely pathetic.
My question would then be, why not? If fire emblem can get one off characters in smash, why is it that other Nintendo IPs of higher caliber dont?
FE is an anomaly in smash in many senses. Characters/stages added to each game. Lots of DLC. Many are even there as promotion picks. Then you compare its standing with other IPs and the whole thing gets bizarre. Metroid needed a huge fan demand just to get two more characters. Both Kirby and LoZ seem to be unable to get any new characters in despite being huge franchises of Nintendo with great fan demand for smash characters.
Now, the whole thing isnt whether they deserve the characters or the reasoning behind nintendo. Its about why it receives the hate it has. And its not hard to see why. It seems unfair for IPs in similar standings to fire emblem to receive less and even less fair for franchises above it.
I don't disagree with all of this, I just don't think one-off characters should make much appearance in the first place. PERHAPS there are a few exceptions.
Off topic from smash kind off but what’s a fact that you only just learnt about your favourite character/characters that you never realised until recently
For me, mine is that I was today’s year old when I actually realised that king boo’s first appearance was in the Luigi mansion series which would mean if king boo got into smash then he wouldn’t be apart of the Mario franchise and we’d get our own separate Luigi mansion series emblem rather than the Mario emblem.
I mean... no we wouldn't, or...ya know... Luigi would be in it.
King Boo makes appearances in Mario games, so that seems to be the case.
I don't make these rules, it is just how it seems to be.
Go back 2 pages on Opposum's reply to you, now, look at the claim you just made about how higher calibur franchises don't get one offs despite Pokemon constantly getting the hot new character from the hot new game and how we've gotten multiple franchises with one offs at this point, this is why everyone's tired of FE bad, people just spread such blatant falsehoods, to the point I saw someone say the issue with FE fatigue is because the series aesthetics don't fit Western tastes. You know, medieval fantasy like Lord of the Rings
There is no such thing as a one off Pokemon, because they are always in future games. They just have generations in which they are created- it doesn't even make sense to call some Pokemon gen 1 (in the context of only being that generation), because Kanto is in 4 gens, and the starters from that game, specifically, are specially called out in many more generations.
Just like I personally believe Waluigi would get the Wario icon, despite not having (yet) been in one of his game.
On a side note, even if you did feel like their argument was wrong, it's quite a leap to get to name-calling and saying they are lying.
Come on, dude. I said this earlier but Fire Emblem's stage representation is in no way excessive...and if anything it's actually under represented in this regard, since it only has one more stage than Kid Icarus, and the same amount as Earthbound. Two three-game franchises that are significantly more obscure and niche.
Sixteen main series games, or seventeen if you include Heroes, plus three additional spinoff games, two trading card games, and several drama CDs...and out of all of that, the series only has four stages. And of those four, only two are specific locations that can be tied to the games themselves: Arena Ferox from Awakening and Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses. Coliseum is just a generic conglomeration of the various arenas within the series, and Castle Siege isn't even based on any specific games or scenes in particular, being purposely generic to just "feel like Fire Emblem."
The fact that it took until Smash 4 3DS for Fire Emblem to get an actual stage from the games themselves when Fire Emblem has had playable characters since Melee says it all, really. Stage representation for the series has been absolutely pathetic.
Come on, dude. I said this earlier but Fire Emblem's stage representation is in no way excessive...and if anything it's actually under represented in this regard, since it only has one more stage than Kid Icarus, and the same amount as Earthbound. Two three-game franchises that are significantly more obscure and niche.
Sixteen main series games, or seventeen if you include Heroes, plus three additional spinoff games, two trading card games, and several drama CDs...and out of all of that, the series only has four stages. And of those four, only two are specific locations that can be tied to the games themselves: Arena Ferox from Awakening and Garreg Mach Monastery from Three Houses. Coliseum is just a generic conglomeration of the various arenas within the series, and Castle Siege isn't even based on any specific games or scenes in particular, being purposely generic to just "feel like Fire Emblem."
The fact that it took until Smash 4 3DS for Fire Emblem to get an actual stage from the games themselves when Fire Emblem has had playable characters since Melee says it all, really. Stage representation for the series has been absolutely pathetic.
I wont deny that stage quality might need some polish based on what you are telling me since my only FE knowledge comes from Awakening (only game in the franchise I have actually played). Fair enough.
Well, I'm going to take this as a genuine question and try to answer to the best of my ability:
Short answer: It was convenient at the time for each character and EVERYONE IS HERE brought everyone back no exceptions.
Long answer:
Fire Emblem does not just have a rotating cast, it has a rotating cast of major characters, straight up protagonists whom are only important within their own universe. Not many other series are quite like that and the ones that are generally also have a large amount of characters per game in the series. (Earthbound, Xenoblade, Pokemon). Meanwhile Metroid, Zelda, and Kirby revolve around their protagonists and repeated enemies, a lineup which won't ever get outdated by the nature of their series. Kirby can be used to market his first game to every other game in his series going forward. Marth will market only his own games.
The only franchise to get regular newcomers despite a fixed main cast is Mario and you can guess why that is.
On top of that, each Smash game that has an FE character added does so with its own circumstances, Ultimate in particular ignores the context of an individual character addition to fulfill the "Everyone is Here" quota.
Marth is the progenitor protagonist and thus gets special treatment as the face of the series, but as a newcomer, even Sakurai had doubts about including him due to not releasing overseas.
Roy was added to Melee as a clone promoting his upcoming game and brought back in Smash 4 DLC as one of 2 popular Melee veterans.
Ike was added to Brawl in a game where Roy was cut and Fire Emblem actually had an international appeal, promoting FE's big return to main consoles.
Robin was from Awakening, a then recent game which literally broke FE into the mainstream and not only prevented the series's death but made it a reliable mainstay franchise.
Corrin promoted his recent game, with Sakurai having to be convinced with their body morph
Byleth also promoted his recent game, with Sakurai only being given a say if he isn't able to make a moveset, which obviously he could.
Lucina and Chrom are low-resource clones who only exist thanks to a template they can use and their ability to please fans with barely any investment on Nintendo's part.
Most were promotional for games only a character in that cast can represent. The few that aren't promotional are explicitly kept due to fan demand. Normally promotions are unnecessary past their game's relevancy but guess what Ultimate's big tagline is?
This is why things "are the way they are." It may be cynical and might encroach on the Smash fantasy wonderland of fan-favorite character inclusions with "convenient business decisions" but Nintendo doesn't particularly... care. You may not like how they do it, I certainly don't, but now you know why.
FE is not an "anomaly"... View attachment 323153
Nintendo isn't arbitrarily pushing FE more than what is typical for a series because there's some sort of conspiracy or a secret FE fan hiding among the upper ranks if that's what you were thinking.
Anyway, this is assuming this is a real question and not just venting.
I disagree with this, fully. Fire Emblem has gotten more than twice the DLC of any other franchise- in fact, the only other franchise to get more than one DLC character, is Final Fantasy.
You can say with fact that Fire Emblem had good timing. To some extent, this is true. However, the fact that Fire Emblem is constantly the franchise chosen for the 'oh, we can push the marketing' slot (versus many other series- which could just as much benefit), the fact that it is constantly stated to just be this- as far back as Melee, and the fact that it happens time and time again falls into this same categorization, instead of seeing Nintendo saying, "hmm... maybe this game with very average sales shouldn't be the one that gets a new character with every iteration, thanks to timing," and it is hard for me to see as anything other than special favor.
Additionally, Zelda does have a rotating cast of main characters who are hugely important to the series. Every Zelda (or close to) game has at least one
character who is just as important to the game as the triad. Midna, Fi, the Champions, and even villains like Ghirahim, Zant, Vaati and Skull Kid (the latter of which are recurring) are all iterative characters who play an extremely prominent role in both the games and the lore. However, they don't get in. If Chrom, Lucina, and Robin all count as 'the most important character of their game,' there is something incongruent about the franchise treatment. Of note, as well, is that even if Lucina and Chrom were of low resources, they were still chosen over other echo options- such as Alph, Impa, or Octoling (which are all series with comparable, or far better sales per iteration). Pikmin, in fact, is a great example of this, because it could have benefitted from having more clones, but was overlooked. It also has an iterative cast. This, also, without going into the options of third party clones that were very possibly, very viable (Ms Pacman is owned by BandaiNamco, who obviously played a huge role in the game... and we have great reason to think Sega and Capcom are on great terms with Nintendo, given the content they have continually received in Smash).
Once more- why does every Fire Emblem game even need a character, at all? There are games that have gotten many more sales than Fire Emblem- its top selling game has less than 4million (which is good, but is it amazing?), but it is constantly Fire Emblem that gets more content. The fact that most of the stages are bland, more than anything- to me- just shows that it isn't that inspiring to Sakurai. This isn't to say it couldn't have better options, but it doesn't. This also brings to mind that Fire Emblem is, just like in all of these examples of it being an 'anomaly,' the only series to have four characters who were based on a single character.
If a game has 'anomaly' after 'anomaly,' particularly compared to other games, which could easily qualify, then it is no longer an 'anomaly,' and is just special (or at least, highly different) treatment.
Not really. Back in Smash 4 speculation, I just kinda went with whoever we got as newcomers, I was just happy we were getting another Smash game (I grew up on Brawl and loved it so another game was fun to think about and watch happen). I was honestly more concerned for my favorite veterans returning in that game.
Since Ultimate didn’t cut anyone and brought back previously cut veterans, I was just happy to see some of the last few heavy-hitters get in. Kinda just, shared in the joy of other fandoms getting their characters. I already had back all the veterans I wanted to return via Everyone Is Here, so everything else was a cherry on top.
Since Ultimate DLC, there haven’t been too many characters I’ve been campaigning hard for. And those that I do want, all likely have smaller chances. Apart from Min Min, who I liked as my favorite ARMS character and only really started backing after an ARMS rep was revealed (since I had initially given up on ARMS getting a character after Spring Man’s AT). But that aside, none of my most wanteds have gotten in. Half of that is probably because I had more interest in veterans most of the time, but it doesn’t upset me too much. Sure, I’d still rather have a handful of characters in than not, but we only have limited spots. Plus, if you look at my signature…I’ve been having quite a lot of fun with the characters I already play.
I will say I’ve kinda lost a bit of the joy of getting new characters throughout this DLC cycle, especially those I don’t have any ties to, but eh. I’m not going to waste time complaining about something I never had a say in/don’t have control over/can’t change. I’m already happy with what we’ve got, and even if I don’t necessarily know the new characters coming in, they’re all still fun to play as for the most part. Ultimately, I can live with this game as it stands now, even if there are a few more additions I’d like. But that’s neither here nor there…yet (maybe?).
I have somewhat of a mixed opinion regarding the roster
While I can definitely live with this selection of characters and I think it's the best out of any fighting game I've ever played, I can't help but feel a bit bummed that most of the characters I wanted feel so close yet so far:
-Shadow has been an AT for 3 games straight, being quite possibly the most consistently requested Sonic character, and people even went as far to call him a lock in during base game speculation (big mistake imo). No such luck, by having received an updated trophy and two spirits meanwhile Castlevania, SF and FF managed to get two fighters each, it feels extremely odd to me that he wasn't picked, not even as an echo or something.
-Zero is one of the coolest looking ATs but why exactly... did they give half a moveset for a character that would've been extremely sick as playable? Seems like a huge wasted opportunity in my eyes. Just imagine what could've been the Cloud vs. Zero matchup.
-Dante is a mii costume while a relatively smaller series that was inspired by DMC got in before him (understandable due to circumstances, but still weird), not to mention they gave many aspects of his kit to other fighters already (Switching weapons: Min Min/Combos and devil form: Bayo & Kazuya/Guns: Joker & Bayo/Tall, white haired animeswordie: Seph).
-Galacta Knight is kind of an alt but he could've been an easy echo
-Lloyd: While it's true that Tekken joined first, something tells me they would've gone with Tales of had the former IP gotten in earlier. Mii'd once again.
Even then, I give Ult's roster a solid 9/10, as close to perfect as you can get but still not quite there for me
Its really strange how FE can strike gold in how many characters it gets, but be absolutely shafted in terms of stages.
I love Castle Siege, but surely theres some way to make it actually a location from the games.
I’ve never been big on FE, but I find a lot of the hate to be misguided. Corrin is the only character I think was 100% a bad idea. The others I think were good ideas either executed poorly, or just get hate because stigma.
Its really strange how FE can strike gold in how many characters it gets, but be absolutely shafted in terms of stages.
I love Castle Siege, but surely theres some way to make it actually a location from the games.
I’ve never been big on FE, but I find a lot of the hate to be misguided. Corrin is the only character I think was 100% a bad idea. The others I think were good ideas either executed poorly, or just get hate because stigma.
It gets hate because it has special treatment, which is the exact debate to which we are entering, and for which I'm prepared to voice.
Again, a game that has 2.5 million sales got three characters- even if two are echoes, those were echoes that could have been applied elsewhere.
Story-wise, it was really not good.
Character-wise, the characters are good and/or fine in Supports. In the Story, the characters are awful. And trust me, re-looking at the story, Corrin is probably one of the lesser problems, except when it comes to one big issue in Conquest.
Gameplay-wise, it was good, especially Conquest.
I don’t think Special Treatment is a factor.
It had two characters in Melee in Brawl. Hardly anything massive I think we can all agree.
How about Smash 4? We got Roy, Corrin, and Lucina alongside Marth and Ike returning. Keep in mind, Roy was a popular request to return as DLC, and Lucina wasn’t even planned. The only character to potentially get Special Treatment was Corrin. And even then, Sakurai had to be convinced to include them by his team and Nintendo.
Is the Special Treatment Ultimate then? Chrom was brought in by fan request and is a clone. How about Byleth? They are one of the three first party DLCs we’ve gotten so far, and Three Houses is the biggest FE game ever. Why wouldn’t you include it?
FE seems to get so many characters because:
A. 3/8 of them are built off Marth, making them easy to develop.
B. The series was consistently a fan favorite until Corrin, meaning many picks were due to popularity.
C. The series is consistently becoming more popular and selling better, with many of its big releases coinciding with Smash games.
Special Treatment is not a factor imo.
I think the series gets hate because Nintendo wanted to shill an apparently mediocre game and pushed Sakurai into Corrin. And Byleth was decided to end off FP1. Its a case of bad timing or bad ideas. Corrin was a bad choice, should’ve waited till their game came out all over the world. Byleth was a good idea done poorly, just don’t make them CP5 and they immediately are better received.
I don’t think Special Treatment is a factor.
It had two characters in Melee in Brawl. Hardly anything massive I think we can all agree.
How about Smash 4? We got Roy, Corrin, and Lucina alongside Marth and Ike returning. Keep in mind, Roy was a popular request to return as DLC, and Lucina wasn’t even planned. The only character to potentially get Special Treatment was Corrin. And even then, Sakurai had to be convinced to include them by his team and Nintendo.
Is the Special Treatment Ultimate then? Chrom was brought in by fan request and is a clone. How about Byleth? They are one of the three first party DLCs we’ve gotten so far, and Three Houses is the biggest FE game ever. Why wouldn’t you include it?
FE seems to get so many characters because:
A. 3/8 of them are built off Marth, making them easy to develop.
B. The series was consistently a fan favorite until Corrin, meaning many picks were due to popularity.
C. The series is consistently becoming more popular and selling better, with many of its big releases coinciding with Smash games.
Special Treatment is not a factor imo.
I think the series gets hate because Nintendo wanted to shill an apparently mediocre game and pushed Sakurai into Corrin. And Byleth was decided to end off FP1. Its a case of bad timing or bad ideas. Corrin was a bad choice, should’ve waited till their game came out. Byleth was a good idea done poorly, just don’t make them CP5 and they immediately are better received.
As I said above (because everything I am about to say is just restating what I said there--- but I did edit it a few times, so perhaps it wasn't seen):
The fact that we have four characters who were based on Marth is in itself special treatment. They were clones chosen over any other option, with more coming from Fire Emblem than any other series.
I'm not going to touch, 'fan favorite,' because a lot of games have strong fans, and it is a pretty unquantifiable comment.
It may be becoming more and more popular, but that isn't that much, considering its best selling game still has under four million sales. Plenty of games have had release near Smash, but they aren't the ones who get the shill pick. When there are few other characters who fall into the category of shill picks, with no other series really getting more than 1 (meaning, they had the sales to justify a character, or the absolute foreknowledge that they would sell well, like Pokemon), and Fire Emblem continually getting that treatment, then its... well... special treatment.
Metaphor: There is a student of the month in Ms Bonsley's class. Month after month, this student does very average in all regards- grades, socialization, friendliness- whatever is on the rubric. But this student has low confidence, and the teacher believes the award will help boost it. Constantly, this student is the one who wins student of the month. The other students who meet the same average criteria are upset. The ones who could also use the confidence boost get upset. The ones who excel get upset, but have other things going for them anyway.
That student is Fire Emblem.
As I said above (because everything I am about to say is just restating what I said there--- but I did edit it a few times, so perhaps it wasn't seen):
The fact that we have four characters who were based on Marth is in itself special treatment. They were clones chosen over any other option, with more coming from Fire Emblem than any other series.
I'm not going to touch, 'fan favorite,' because a lot of games have strong fans, and it is a pretty unquantifiable comment.
It may be becoming more and more popular, but that isn't that much, considering its best selling game still has under four million sales. Plenty of games have had release near Smash, but they aren't the ones who get the shill pick.
Yes. FP2 was revealed with Terry (who, of course, came before Byleth).
Apologies, I missed the edits. However, I hold true by my point.
Roy was a last minute Clone for Melee, not Special Treatment. He was a case of the team tossing tossing in Roys model over Marths and Janking his hitboxes.
Lucina was going to be a Skin, before being abruptly decided to just get a few extra animations and a different slot. Again, not planned.
The two were brought back for Ultimate because they had to be. So its not like they took anybody’s spot.
Chrom is the only planned Clone. And he was literally such a big want that he was going to be the Smash 4 FE rep, and when he was canned the game itself joked that he somehow missed the roster. Its only natural he’d get in next game. Not anything big or special.
Tons of games have had releases near Smash sure, but in Corrins case Nintendo was going hard on Fates, trying to give it Pokemons pricing model. Its not special treatment that it was the choice.
In Byleths case, they still aren’t special because they are just 1 of 3 of Nintendos first party picks. They’re just another game that missed base game like ARMS and XC2.
They likely got in before the other 2 because FE:3H was the only game of those three to not be given content in base.
I think the series gets hate because Nintendo wanted to shill an apparently mediocre game and pushed Sakurai into Corrin. Corrin was a bad choice, should’ve waited till their game came out.
Believe it or not, their game was out before Corrin joined, much like Byleth. Corrin was announced at the start of 2016. Fire Emblem Fates, or Fire Emblem If as it was called in Japan, was already out in Japan on June 2015.
in the game since I was a dumb, copyright-ignorant 9-year-old playing Smash 64.
