Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[FreeFox]

Speaking of professor Layton. I am reminded of this video.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Okay so we don’t have a clue who the next character will be so instead of speculating who it might be, let’s think of characters who have gimmicks or movesets that aren’t represented in smash yet and list them so we could potentially get some idea of who the last character could be.

Basically every character in the pass so far has brought in a gimmick that is completely unique to smash. From this we know the last character will bring something that’s not already done in smash yet so the rules are

If the character performs a gimmick that’s pretty much represented in smash bro’s then they don’t count.

If they perform a few moves that are similar to character move sets from dlc then they don’t count. Now that the rules are down. Let’s think off unique gimmicks or moves this potential last character could be bringing.

We don't have a character in Smash who relies on debuffing foes. And I don't just mean something like Joker's Eiha giving damage over time, I mean actually screwing over with the stats and frame data.

Not sure who could be having a mechanic like that, but the idea that a character can act as a living nerf hammer could be interesting.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

We don't have a character in Smash who relies on debuffing foes. And I don't just mean something like Joker's Eiha giving damage over time, I mean actually screwing over with the stats and frame data.

Not sure who could be having a mechanic like that, but the idea that a character can act as a living nerf hammer could be interesting.

You know, I’m just sayin but…

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

You know, I’m just sayin but…
View attachment 322874

I would unironically be down for Monika as a Smash character.

 

[Theguy123]

So a few mechanics and moves that aren’t represented in smash yet that I could think off are (I’ll try my best to explain them lol)

A lawyer moveset like the ace attorney games where you could use lawyer evidence to attack opponents (like the big bubble signs Phoenix Wright does)

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

We don’t have a puzzle genre rep yet. Best example would be Layton using the exclamation marks and question marks for attacks and using puzzle block elements etc as attacks

We don’t have have a character with a 3rd change gimmick yet where they get a third form

As someone above has pointed out, we don’t have a character yet who can debuff characters.

Feel free to add along gimmicks or moves that aren’t represented in smash yet.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

You know, I’m just sayin but…
View attachment 322874

If DDLC does get in the game in some form (I wouldn’t be surprised by Miis or Spirits) then it’ll actually be so cool that a Project M developer has his game in Smash.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

Mythra's Foresight?

 

[Perkilator]

Know what? I’m starting to think Sora and Crash might’ve missed the train after all. We still have one Challenger Pack left, so my hope isn’t completely gone, but…for as much as I wish Sora got in instead of Byleth (even as one of the two people who likes Byleth) and Crash got into base game, I’m still grateful for the characters we did get as DLC.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If DDLC does get in the in some form (I wouldn’t be surprised by Miis or Spirits) then it’ll actually be so cool that a Project M developer has his game in Smash.

The absolute irony of Nintendo shutting down tournaments because of a Smash mod, only to then allow content made by a Smash modder in a Smash game would be downright hilarious.

......Then again, it wouldn't be unprecedented since they let a SNES ROM hacker have his stuff in Smash. Megalovania started as a ROM hack track, after all

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So a few mechanics and moves that aren’t represented in smash yet that I could think off are (I’ll try my best to explain them lol)

A lawyer moveset like the ace attorney games where you could use lawyer evidence to attack opponents (like the big bubble signs Phoenix Wright does)

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

We don’t have a puzzle genre rep yet. Best example would be Layton using the exclamation marks and question marks for attacks and using puzzle block elements etc as attacks

We don’t have have a character with a 3rd change gimmick yet where they get a third form

As someone above has pointed out, we don’t have a character yet who can debuff characters.

Feel free to add along gimmicks or moves that aren’t represented in smash yet.

A weapon switcher. Pyra/Mythra switch forms but I wanna see someone who’s still the same character but just switches their weapons

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A weapon switcher. Pyra/Mythra switch forms but I wanna see someone who’s still the same character but just switches their weapons

Min Min's down B isn't that?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Min Min's down B isn't that?

It only affects her neutral B move. I mean like changing the whole move set when you change weapons

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Know what? I’m starting to think Sora and Crash might’ve missed the train after all. We still have one Challenger Pack left, so my hope isn’t completely gone, but…for as much as I wish Sora got in instead of Byleth (even as one of the two people who likes Byleth) and Crash got into base game, I’m still grateful for the characters we did get as DLC.

I myself am expecting the final fighter to be some Phoenix Wright-tier 3rd party or 1st party.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

i guess we COULD see a bigger third party like Crash, Chief or even LoL IF AND ONLY IF they save the final reveal for TGA

but it would kinda suck having to wait that long

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

i guess we COULD see a bigger third party like Crash, Chief or even LoL IF AND ONLY IF they save the final reveal for TGA

but it would kinda suck having to wait that long

Or any of those could just appear in a regular Smash presentation. I don't think anything is stopping that from happening.

 

[Perkilator]

i guess we COULD see a bigger third party like Crash, Chief or even LoL IF AND ONLY IF they save the final reveal for TGA

but it would kinda suck having to wait that long

If it is, the wait will at least be worth it.

 

[Noler_Mass]

Know what? I’m starting to think Sora and Crash might’ve missed the train after all. We still have one Challenger Pack left, so my hope isn’t completely gone, but…for as much as I wish Sora got in instead of Byleth (even as one of the two people who likes Byleth) and Crash got into base game, I’m still grateful for the characters we did get as DLC.

in my experience most people who have given Byleth’s moveset an open-minded shot actually dig their design quite a bit. Maybe the right phrasing is two people on SmashBoards, lol

as a side note, my money is on master chief, but that’s why I don’t gamble. If it’s at TGA they’ll try to make it someone groundbreaking tho. Also it’s the character to finish off Ultimate Smash, so groundbreaking would be appreciated.

Btw, sakurai specifically said the wait will be long, so November fits that bill pretty well

 

[pupNapoleon]

Okay so we don’t have a clue who the next character will be so instead of speculating who it might be, let’s think of characters who have gimmicks or movesets that aren’t represented in smash yet and list them so we could potentially get some idea of who the last character could be.

Basically every character in the pass so far has brought in a gimmick that is completely unique to smash. From this we know the last character will bring something that’s not already done in smash yet so the rules are

If the character performs a gimmick that’s pretty much represented in smash bro’s then they don’t count.

If they perform a few moves that are similar to character move sets from dlc then they don’t count. Now that the rules are down. Let’s think off unique gimmicks or moves this potential last character could be bringing.

I don't feel Plant, Banjo & Kazooie, or Byleth have gimmicks.
They do, however, have unique movesets... though Byleth has a strong argument for not really doing this.

But to continue with the idea---
I think Lara Croft would actually be really unique. She would have abilities that allow her to master the terrain- like a recover that involves a tether and then climbing up a good portion of the stage, or an ability to actively endure power hits more easily.

I think Frogger would have a moveset based on evasion, more so than any character currently in the game.

Agumon would be very different- he would gain energy (perhaps by a mechanic that involves taking care of him), and be able to have a multi-level comeback mechanic...which I will count, since Pyra/Mythra have a gimmick that is essentially repeated from Pokemon Trainer.

I think that both Doom Slayer and Master Chief would have a lot more inventory control than any other character, far moreso than Hero or Robin.

I even think Crash would have a unique moveset- in that each move is to be played off of a spin attack- all moves would be to compliment this technique.

Spyro would be based around a limited ability to glide, as a primary mechanic.

From Advance Wars, Andy would be about controlling the stage via a full special moveset of setting traps.

The Chorus Kids could be rhythm timed.

Rayman could be based on having fully disjointed hitboxes and hurtboxes.

I believe Meowth (and Team Rocket) would be full of cheat mechanics, shown both as cheats to Pokemon (having assist Pokemon come out, like a Wobbuffet counter), as well as a trap by throwing a Pokeball and trapping an opponent (as if in a Yoshi egg).

If we got CJ from GTA, he could not just use other's moves, but actually take it- a hybrid of copy and disable- reminiscent of how he steals.

I think Eevee would have the ability to evolve- each of it's evolutions would change the visual effect of the core moveset, but also each of the Eeveelutions would raise a different stat (jump, attack speed, speed, defense, special attacks, smash attacks, weight...)

And of course- Isaac would primarily have a moveset based off of his most unique, and potentially defining factors- his giant hand, and utilizing Djinn in order to be able to summon various strength summons.

We don't have a character in Smash who relies on debuffing foes. And I don't just mean something like Joker's Eiha giving damage over time, I mean actually screwing over with the stats and frame data.

Not sure who could be having a mechanic like that, but the idea that a character can act as a living nerf hammer could be interesting.

I actually think Kamek would be a great character to buff/nerf themselves and other players.

 

[IzukuXYang4Life]

Hey guys and girls.

I have a question for all of you.

What is everyone's thoughts on the upcoming Nickelodeon game, Nickelodeon: All Star Brawl- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESR3cvErqCg

I ask this cause I don't see many discussing it on here.

I don't know about you all. But I'm really looking forward to that game and hoping it includes some stuff that was missing from Ultimate like A Subspace Emissary style story mode and all the old single player modes (Break The Targets, Smash Run, Board The Platforms, ect).

Feel free to respond to this and let me know what you think about that game.

Especially since Smash Speculation is almost over and done with and that game might give us some time for more fun speculating.

In the meantime. God bless you all and have a good day.

 

[Eldrake]

I ask this cause I don't see many discussing it on here.

Boy you missed like several pages of memes.
Well it's made by the Slap City devs, so it's probably going to turn out to be a solid game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

So a few mechanics and moves that aren’t represented in smash yet that I could think off are (I’ll try my best to explain them lol)

A lawyer moveset like the ace attorney games where you could use lawyer evidence to attack opponents (like the big bubble signs Phoenix Wright does)

I'm not sure this qualifies as a moveset, as much as just one aesthetic covering of a variation of different gimmicks.

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

Prince of Persia.

We don’t have a puzzle genre rep yet. Best example would be Layton using the exclamation marks and question marks for attacks and using puzzle block elements etc as attacks

I wouldn't count Layton in this. Puzzle rep needed- LIP.

We don’t have have a character with a 3rd change gimmick yet where they get a third form

I don't know exactly what this means... but... Pokemon Trainer.
I mean, if we are just piling on, we could say a 4th change mechanic, a 5th, a 6th... it could never end.
Rhythm. Fully trap based. Complete Aerial. Extreme stage alteration.

Hey guys and girls.

I have a question for all of you.

What is everyone's thoughts on the upcoming Nickelodeon game, Nickelodeon: All Star Brawl- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESR3cvErqCg

I ask this cause I don't see many discussing it on here.

I don't know about you all. But I'm really looking forward to that game and hoping it includes some stuff that was missing from Ultimate like A Subspace Emissary style story mode and all the old single player modes (Break The Targets, Smash Run, Board The Platforms, ect).

Feel free to respond to this and let me know what you think about that game.

Especially since Smash Speculation is almost over and done with and that game might give us some time for more fun speculating.

In the meantime. God bless you all and have a good day.

It was so popular of a conversation, that it is now its own fully isolated thread.

It only affects her neutral B move. I mean like changing the whole move set when you change weapons

If Min Min doesn't count, then what is the difference of changing moveset versus changing characters...other than aesthetic?
I don' think an aesthetically different 'gimmick' qualifies as a new or missing gimmick.

 

[Idon]

If Min Min doesn't count, then what is the difference of changing moveset versus changing characters...other than aesthetic?

Presumably, I'd imagine they keep their other character properties, like speed, weight, jump height, size, etc.

Pythra and PT change those somewhat. Though Min Min does technically already qualify, it most likely doesn't reach the depth that one might expect when envisioning a mechanic like that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

If Min Min doesn't count, then what is the difference of changing moveset versus changing characters...other than aesthetic?
I don' think an aesthetically different 'gimmick' qualifies as a new or missing gimmick.

Especially when the weapons themselves act differently.

Pyra's Aegis is a hard-hitter while Mythra's is a combo blade. They have unique specials too.

The animations on non-special moves are the same, but the principles are still the same as a traditional "weapon switch" mechanic.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Presumably, I'd imagine they keep their other character properties, like speed, weight, jump height, size, etc.

Pythra and PT change those somewhat. Though Min Min does technically already qualify, it most likely doesn't reach the depth that one might expect when envisioning a mechanic like that.

So... a stance change?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

It only affects her neutral B move. I mean like changing the whole move set when you change weapons

Being fair, neutral B is basically half her moveset, so I'd say it changes a lot.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

A weapon switcher. Pyra/Mythra switch forms but I wanna see someone who’s still the same character but just switches their weapons

I was going to say Dante but he got Mii’d.

So uh, Vergil? He can swap his weapons in DMC5 SE.

 

[Idon]

So... a stance change?

Yup, basically. Think Gen from SF4 or Lei from Tekken.
But with weapons.

Dante might've done that had he... y'know... not got mii'd. Bayo could've done that too, probably on a bigger scale, but they chose to focus on her gun-fu

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yup, basically. Think Gen from SF4 or Lei from Tekken.
But with weapons.

Dante might've done that had he... y'know... not got mii'd. Bayo could've done that too, probably on a bigger scale, but they chose to focus on her gun-fu

I think Nightmare would do it.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Know what? I’m starting to think Sora and Crash might’ve missed the train after all. We still have one Challenger Pack left, so my hope isn’t completely gone, but…for as much as I wish Sora got in instead of Byleth (even as one of the two people who likes Byleth) and Crash got into base game, I’m still grateful for the characters we did get as DLC.

Never mind the train, I’m convinced they never got any tickets in the first place. With everything that’s going on, plus the rumors about Disney being twenty times stingier than what Squeenix was initially thought to be, it’s possible that they were never brought up among the devs in the first place.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I was going to say Dante but he got Mii’d.

So uh, Vergil? He can swap his weapons in DMC5 SE.

But Vergil only gets to be playable in special editions, so he's instantly ruled out

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

Well, Byleth can rewind time, but they ignored that in favor of giving him everyone else's weapon.

A weapon switcher. Pyra/Mythra switch forms but I wanna see someone who’s still the same character but just switches their weapons

And...yeah, Byleth uses this as his "gimmick".

 

[TheMightyP]

There's no way that they're saving the biggest reveal for last solely because if they really wanted to do that, they wouldn't reveal Minecraft Steve yet.

 

[Idon]

I think Nightmare would do it.

Well for one thing, he doesn't swap weapons. For another thing, his stance isn't the type they're referring to. His stances are literally just temporary states that lead to other moves, like Joker's gun. What they're more looking for is a shift in moveset that's more constant.

And...yeah, Byleth uses this as his "gimmick".

Byleth's moveset consists of multiple weapons, what they want is swapping between wholly different movesets while retaining the same character.

 

[Theguy123]

Well, Byleth can rewind time, but they ignored that in favor of giving him everyone else's weapon.

Hmmmmmm interesting. Does he constantly use it to the point where it’s an obvious part of his moveset or is it one of his moves that’s not used as much as his weapons that he got in his Moveset???

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

And...yeah, Byleth uses this as his "gimmick".

You didn't really understand his point. It's more so someone who chooses which weapon for all attacks rather than wielding all of them.

On a separate note, even if it's not as gimmicky as other DLCs, I'm gonna defend Byleth because the idea of wielding multiple weapons gives a clear idea of what each move does; whip moves linger and have multi-hits, spear moves have a tipper, axe has a ****ton of strength and bow is... well... a bow.

The idea of dedicating an entire direction for each weapon makes the concept all the more intuitive, so I'd argue that Byleth's design is probably one of the most visually clear and understandable concepts we've ever had for the entire DLC run so far. It's hated on because it's simple, but it's just as deep as other DLCs.

 

[Idon]

Hmmmmmm interesting. Does he constantly use it to the point where it’s an obvious part of his moveset or is it one of his moves that’s not used as much as his weapons that he got in his Moveset???

Byleth's time-control, referred to as "Divine Pulse" allows him to rewind time to a previous state with knowledge of the future. He uses it in story a few times, and chances are you'll be abusing that mechanic all the time as it's essentially a free way to undo a mistake without restarting the entire level over.

Meanwhile, it is not only uncommon to use all these weapons, but actually literally impossible.
The weapons are the personal weapons of the 3 main lords of the 3 routes. They only appear in their own routes and it is almost never encouraged to do so as you'd be depriving the specialist of their weapon of choice while giving it to Byleth who has is own specialties that don't include the other weapons.

The only reason Byleth uses these multitude of weapons is because Sakurai knows that there were complaints about having too many swordsmen and sought to deflect that criticism ahead of time.

 

[Theguy123]

Byleth's time-control, referred to as "Divine Pulse" allows him to rewind time to a previous state with knowledge of the future. He uses it in story a few times, and chances are you'll be abusing that mechanic all the time as it's essentially a free way to undo a mistake without restarting the entire level over.

Meanwhile, it is not only uncommon to use all these weapons, but actually literally impossible.
The weapons are the personal weapons of the 3 main lords of the 3 routes. They only appear in their own routes and it is almost never encouraged to do so as you'd be depriving the specialist of their weapon of choice while giving it to Byleth who has is own specialties that don't include the other weapons.

Hmmmm interesting. I wonder if they possibly avoided using the time move then because potentially a character in this pass had a time move of some sort. Might be something to keep an eye on maybe the last character does have a time move of some sort.

Would make sense. Each dlc character has been pretty much different from each characters in the passes. If they gave byleth a time move and then another character a time move then it might feel weird to a lot of people. Maybe potentially they’ve held off that time move that he does because someone in this pass had a time move.

This all falls kinda flat though if the imran rumour about byleth being used because MH was as scrapped is true but it’s still interesting to think about.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Would make sense. Each dlc character has been pretty much different from each characters in the passes. If they gave byleth a time move and then another character a time move then it might feel weird to a lot of people.

That didn't stop the devs from giving Joker, Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya a different take on comeback mechanics, two of them even unapologetically having a damage barrier of exactly 100%.

Or how both Steve and Hero can be considered resource management characters.

I think the time-based move was just really too much to program, so they dialed back to multi-weapon master to make Byleth stand out.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Hmmmmmm interesting. Does he constantly use it to the point where it’s an obvious part of his moveset or is it one of his moves that’s not used as much as his weapons that he got in his Moveset???

Eeeeeh. Depends on the player. It's mostly there for new players, or those who mess up, so you could use it a lot, or never. It is also a story relevant ability on more than one occasion.

Meanwhile, it is not only uncommon to use all these weapons, but actually literally impossible.
The weapons are the personal weapons of the 3 main lords of the 3 routes. They only appear in their own routes and it is almost never encouraged to do so as you'd be depriving the specialist of their weapon of choice while giving it to Byleth who has is own specialties that don't include the other weapons.

To add onto this, Byleth's specialties are Swordsmanship, Brawling, and Faith (Light) Magic. Along with Fire Emblem: Three Houses specific mechanics like Battalions, the Mentor system, and the aforementioned Divine Pulse, and Byleth could have had some pretty unique stuff.

I suppose it's worth noting that classes aren't locked to any weapon types (aside from the fact that only magical classes can be casters), but there also aren't really any classes that benefit from carrying everything to my knowledge. They're all more specialized than that.

You didn't really understand his point. It's more so someone who chooses which weapon for all attacks rather than wielding all of them.

On a separate note, even if it's not as gimmicky as other DLCs, I'm gonna defend Byleth because the idea of wielding multiple weapons gives a clear idea of what each move does; whip moves linger and have multi-hits, spear moves have a tipper, axe has a ****ton of strength and bow is... well... a bow.

The idea of dedicating an entire direction for each weapon makes the concept all the more intuitive, so I'd argue that Byleth's design is probably one of the most visually clear and understandable concepts we've ever had for the entire DLC run so far. It's hated on because it's simple, but it's just as deep as other DLCs.

I don't really have a problem with the actual moveset's design so much as the fact that the primary angle was keeping the "sword bad" crowd happy (which I'm pretty sure was a failure anyway).

 

[Theguy123]

That didn't stop the devs from giving Joker, Terry, Sephiroth and Kazuya a different take on comeback mechanics, two of them even unapologetically having a damage barrier of exactly 100%.

Or how both Steve and Hero can be considered resource management characters.

I think the time-based move was just really too much to program, so they dialed back to multi-weapon master to make Byleth stand out.

Probably I guess. You could say though that their comback mechanics are hugely different though whereas a time move doesn’t really have many ways to be utilised without being broken.

Kazuya as an example barely has a comback mechanic if I remember remember rightly. He has it for one move where he does extra damage for his grab or something along the lines of that and that’s it.

Terry gets extra moves and does more damage

And then joker gets an extra move

They’re all massively different.