Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[WeirdChillFever]

I feel sorry for Pac-Man’s Ult icon, the Smash 4 one has become such an ingrained part of Smashboards culture it has transcended games and replaced it’s successor.

Its really up there with Smash 4 Dedede as far as just plain funny emotes go too

 

[3BitSaurus]

Pac's new icon is pretty much the Smash version of the oversimplified logo meme.

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Also, we talking about characters with installs and music overrides... and no one mentioned this yet?

Don't worry, people. Phoenix has got all he needs.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pac's new icon is pretty much the Smash version of the oversimplified logo meme.

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Also, we talking about characters with installs and music overrides... and no one mentioned this yet?

Don't worry, people. Phoenix has got all he needs.

Honestly, MvC did such a fantastic job at adapting Ace Attorney's gameplay into Nick's gameplan that it's incredibly difficult to imagine Sakursi trying to come up with something else. I've seen people object to the evidence turning into crazy projectiles which is fair but the full screen pointer you get after opening up your opponent is too damn good to leave out

 

[SharkLord]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Pac's new icon is pretty much the Smash version of the oversimplified logo meme.

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It kind of bugged me that you can only have one hand or the other so I did this.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Nah bro that's players who use Birthday Train against Sol players who don't want to DI and die for it

I'm not entirely sure that this is what you were referring to since the move doesn't cause Birthday Train to play, but Dizzy's Instant Kill attack in Super Smash Bros. would be absolute perfection.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

I'd prefer being in the dark completely.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Master

This would be plagued by debates on whether or not "Master" referred to Master Chief, which would probably make Byleth even more hated.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

I'm kinda glad they didn't leak solely because of Dolly

I'm not entirely sure that this is what you were referring to since the move doesn't cause Birthday Train to play, but Dizzy's Instant Kill attack in Super Smash Bros. would be absolute perfection.

Oh no, there have been many reported cases of Sol players using DI, willingly throwing the round, just so they would stop having to hear Birthday Train

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

Nah, we’d have to sit through the rise and fall of Geno as Dolly (), Shadow as Edge () and Dante as Demon () with very few new ideas inbetween (Like me bringing up Dr. Kawashima or something for Demon.)

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

I would’ve liked that tbh. The Brave speculation was probably the most fun I had speculating and wasn’t nearly as hostile as the Banjo vs Steve war, which funnily enough meant nothing since we ended up getting both. I remember people putting Brave’s stats over Ike and making claims like “this feels like Sora!” or “this is a Swordfighter but they feel different”

Stuff like that actually made speculation pretty fun while still being pretty obscure. I liked it

 

[Speed Weed]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

Now I want the timeline where Joker is CP11 and his codename leaks, so that the final few months of speculation can be entirely centered around killing Chaos

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I would’ve liked that tbh. The Brave speculation was probably the most fun I had speculating and wasn’t nearly as hostile as the Banjo vs Steve war, which funnily enough meant nothing since we ended up getting both. I remember people putting Brave’s stats over Ike and making claims like “this feels like Sora!” or “this is a Swordfighter but they feel different”

Stuff like that actually made speculation pretty fun while still being pretty obscure. I liked it

I'm sorry but I really don't remember Brave being 'obscure' when people figured it out day 1 with people needing to stretch and pretend they never heard of Dragon Quest to say it was someone else by saying **** like "Oh my favourite character is very brave as they fight evil"

 

[Guynamednelson]

Now I want the timeline where Joker is CP11 and his codename leaks, so that the final few months of speculation can be entirely centered around killing Chaos

"No, it's Raiden from MGR, Stranger of Paradise is too new"
"Nah, Sakurai threw in another Tekken rep to throw us all off like Kazuya does with his father!"

 

[3BitSaurus]

Honestly, MvC did such a fantastic job at adapting Ace Attorney's gameplay into Nick's gameplan that it's incredibly difficult to imagine Sakursi trying to come up with something else. I've seen people object to the evidence turning into crazy projectiles which is fair but the full screen pointer you get after opening up your opponent is too damn good to leave out

I guess some things could be simplified. The movesets for Investigation and Trial could be condensed together, with Turnabout extending your hitboxes, damage and knockback. Maybe make the evidence have different effects when presented instead of projectiles.

Otherwise? Yeah, you're pretty much collecting evidence to build your case and then wreck your opponent. That moveset was genius.

Oh, and I'd also keep the aspect of Nick being a "bad" character outside of Turnabout. We all know he shines brighter when making a comeback at the last minute through extreme pressure.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Would be too funny if “Master” was leaked and people settled on Chief only to get Byleth.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I'm sorry but I really don't remember Brave being 'obscure' when people figured it out day 1 with people needing to stretch and pretend they never heard of Dragon Quest to say it was someone else by saying **** like "Oh my favourite character is very brave as they fight evil"

I recall some type of common item Sora had was mentioned quite a bit, as well as Banjo-Kazooie being referred to as Brave on either box art or in game I believe? Dragon Quest was obviously always the front runner but the placing the stats over a character was interesting stuff and while I like speculating Smash stuff, sometimes it’s nice to have a narrower field like what happened here

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Y'know, I've been thinking about something.

Would it be better or worse for speculation if the codenames kept being leaked after Hero? On one hand, it would forcibly railroad us into character who would fit the codenames, but on the other, a decent chunk of the codenames are pretty vague, like Master (), Edge, (), and Demon (). I think it would've especially helped during FP2 (Sans the ARMS guessing game, where we'd probably descend on Min Min even faster and just have nothing to do for a while), since leaks are dead and we've moved on from stuff like new genres and pushing recent releases, so it'd at least give us something to talk about.

I'm not really sure if it'd be good or bad if we had more codenames leaked. What do you think?

I think Kazuya’s codename leaking would be a bad idea, people would think it’s Dante.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I recall some type of common item Sora had was mentioned quite a bit, as well as Banjo-Kazooie being referred to as Brave on either box art or in game I believe? Dragon Quest was obviously always the front runner but the placing the stats over a character was interesting stuff and while I like speculating Smash stuff, sometimes it’s nice to have a narrower field like what happened here

Okay but I feel Sora and Banjo-Kazooie have the sort of fanbase to go “what if it was actually about me though?” even if the rest of the community kinda decided we’re sitting on our hands waiting for Erdrick.

 

[SharkLord]

Now I want the timeline where Joker is CP11 and his codename leaks, so that the final few months of speculation can be entirely centered around killing Chaos

I will only accept this timeline if Chaos 0 is also a Mii Costume in Joker's wave

I'm sorry but I really don't remember Brave being 'obscure' when people figured it out day 1 with people needing to stretch and pretend they never heard of Dragon Quest to say it was someone else by saying **** like "Oh my favourite character is very brave as they fight evil"

Wasn't this the part where people pointed out banjos are considered brave instruments?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Haven't really been on here all day due to damn heatwave my city is going through driving me insane.

What we currently discussing?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

i just figured out that both master and chief are synonyms for “boss” and that the dudes name is boss boss

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I would’ve liked that tbh. The Brave speculation was probably the most fun I had speculating and wasn’t nearly as hostile as the Banjo vs Steve war, which funnily enough meant nothing since we ended up getting both. I remember people putting Brave’s stats over Ike and making claims like “this feels like Sora!” or “this is a Swordfighter but they feel different”

Stuff like that actually made speculation pretty fun while still being pretty obscure. I liked it

Of course, it helped that we got a proper leak with Tansuit and Verge, removing most of the issues of the mystery itself. There were a lot of random guesses, instead of the few times where it's an important trait. Someone who actually is about Bravery/Courage, or a proper name for a Class or something like that. The core reason we started thinking it was Erdrick was due to leakers speculating the name itself, and many mistook what they said as a leak.

It was nice when there was actual speculation. Fun theories, etc. But most of the time it was the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge other ideas/theories. It was a crapfest at that point. Not very fun when people just can't accept others having different thoughts. If people were actually respectful about it, it'd have been a good time.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

So I don’t normally bring over ideas from GameFaqs here but someone just made a pretty good point regarding why the SMT V protag may be out of the running (possibly)

Basically, their reasoning was that Xander Mobus wasn’t brought back to do voiceovers for Smash 4’s DLC, so taking this into account, if the same happened with Smash Ultimate, then Nahobino would most likely be out of the running, since the character likely wouldn’t have been finalized by the time of Mobus voicing that stuff. Maybe he came back and did more when Joker was added, but it’s something I figured was of note

And before anyone says it, Corrin is likely an exception as they’re first party. SMT V may be a Switch exclusive, but it’s still published by ATLUS (except in Europe)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I recall some type of common item Sora had was mentioned quite a bit, as well as Banjo-Kazooie being referred to as Brave on either box art or in game I believe? Dragon Quest was obviously always the front runner but the placing the stats over a character was interesting stuff and while I like speculating Smash stuff, sometimes it’s nice to have a narrower field like what happened here

That's exactly what I mean, people would stretch in such ludicrous ways they'd make no sense when anyone with at least half a braincell was able to tell that it was so obviously DQ. Stats are especially meaningless as you can't get anything on raw mobility stats alone, we already have enough people saying dumb **** like "Oh you see this glitch must be a hint towards my favourite getting in", "Shadow will be a guest character in Bayonetta 3 and Smash will put him in there to promote the game" and pretty much anything that came from the Geno thread when they were glorifying the most blatant fraud for about a year

 

[WeirdChillFever]

So I don’t normally bring over ideas from GameFaqs here but someone just made a pretty good point regarding why the SMT V protag may be out of the running (possibly)

Basically, their reasoning was that Xander Mobus wasn’t brought back to do voiceovers for Smash 4’s DLC, so taking this into account, if the same happened with Smash Ultimate, then Nahobino would most likely be out of the running, since the character likely wouldn’t have been finalized by the time of Mobus voicing that stuff. Maybe he came back and did more when Joker was added, but it’s something I figured was of note

And before anyone says it, Corrin is likely an exception as they’re first party. SMT V may be a Switch exclusive, but it’s still published by ATLUS (except in Europe)

Excuse my bluntness but “It cannot be recent characters because of this theory and the two recent characters we got might actually just be exceptions” isn’t much of a reliable theory.

 

[SNEKeater]

So I don’t normally bring over ideas from GameFaqs here but someone just made a pretty good point regarding why the SMT V protag may be out of the running (possibly)

Basically, their reasoning was that Xander Mobus wasn’t brought back to do voiceovers for Smash 4’s DLC, so taking this into account, if the same happened with Smash Ultimate, then Nahobino would most likely be out of the running, since the character likely wouldn’t have been finalized by the time of Mobus voicing that stuff. Maybe he came back and did more when Joker was added, but it’s something I figured was of note

And before anyone says it, Corrin is likely an exception as they’re first party. SMT V may be a Switch exclusive, but it’s still published by ATLUS (except in Europe)

That's actually a good point, I'd say. At least with the info we have so far.

Edit: for some reason I understood this as you talking about Mobus no being brought back for Pass 2 because he already did the job before.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Excuse my bluntness but “It cannot be recent characters because of this theory and the two recent characters we got might actually just be exceptions” isn’t much of a reliable theory.

Two recent characters? Do you mean Pythra and Byleth?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Two recent characters? Do you mean Pythra and Byleth?

Corrin and Byleth if counted across games, Pythra was around for Smash Ult basegame so they’re not too recent imo

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Of course, it helped that we got a proper leak with Tansuit and Verge, removing most of the issues of the mystery itself. There were a lot of random guesses, instead of the few times where it's an important trait. Someone who actually is about Bravery/Courage, or a proper name for a Class or something like that. The core reason we started thinking it was Erdrick was due to leakers speculating the name itself, and many mistook what they said as a leak.

It was nice when there was actual speculation. Fun theories, etc. But most of the time it was the opposite, people refusing to acknowledge other ideas/theories. It was a crapfest at that point. Not very fun when people just can't accept others having different thoughts. If people were actually respectful about it, it'd have been a good time.

Even without the leak people figured it out real quick (Brave is literally a translation of Hero Japanese name). I'm not against fun theories, but it was very obvious that it was Dragon quest. Sometimes the truth is just in our face and there's no point to overthink it with things like "But Banjo is brave too, it could be him!!!"

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I don’t normally bring over ideas from GameFaqs here but someone just made a pretty good point regarding why the SMT V protag may be out of the running (possibly)

Basically, their reasoning was that Xander Mobus wasn’t brought back to do voiceovers for Smash 4’s DLC, so taking this into account, if the same happened with Smash Ultimate, then Nahobino would most likely be out of the running, since the character likely wouldn’t have been finalized by the time of Mobus voicing that stuff. Maybe he came back and did more when Joker was added, but it’s something I figured was of note

And before anyone says it, Corrin is likely an exception as they’re first party. SMT V may be a Switch exclusive, but it’s still published by ATLUS (except in Europe)

While the doubt about exceptions was already brought up, Xander Mobus literally had to be brought back anyway, especially as by the time he got brought for Joker, SMTV would have already been through 2 years of development, meaning a name would have been solidified by that point

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

Corrin and Byleth if counted across games, Pythra was around for Smash Ult basegame so they’re not too recent imo

Well yeah, they’re both first parties and Sakurai made it known he had early access to these characters anyways I believe? At least I know he said that about Byleth

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Well yeah, they’re both first parties and Sakurai made it known he had early access to these characters anyways I believe? At least I know he said that about Byleth

I suppose for Smash Ultimate specifically, he could’ve been asked to shout more names as he was recording for Joker and Byleth’s name would’ve been finalized by then, true.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I suppose for Smash Ultimate specifically, he could’ve been asked to shout more names as he was recording for Joker and Byleth’s name would’ve been finalized by then, true.

The only question mark then is would SMT protag have been finalized by the time of Joker’s release? Even if it was I’m not sure it’d matter, cause they didn’t plan on doing a second pass

 

[GoodGrief741]

So I don’t normally bring over ideas from GameFaqs here but someone just made a pretty good point regarding why the SMT V protag may be out of the running (possibly)

Basically, their reasoning was that Xander Mobus wasn’t brought back to do voiceovers for Smash 4’s DLC, so taking this into account, if the same happened with Smash Ultimate, then Nahobino would most likely be out of the running, since the character likely wouldn’t have been finalized by the time of Mobus voicing that stuff. Maybe he came back and did more when Joker was added, but it’s something I figured was of note

And before anyone says it, Corrin is likely an exception as they’re first party. SMT V may be a Switch exclusive, but it’s still published by ATLUS (except in Europe)

They literally brought in the announcer from Tekken just for one character, I think they could have gotten Xander to record one 2-second voiceline.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well yeah, they’re both first parties and Sakurai made it known he had early access to these characters anyways I believe? At least I know he said that about Byleth

In the case of Atlus, which is what prompted this, we know for a fact Sakurai got an early look at Persona 5 Royal, which wouldn't be announced by the time development on Joker started yet Joker had a grappling hook for his up special, for those who don't know, the grappling hook became a feature in P5R which was used a selling point as it'd let you explore dungeons more. Meanwhile, SMTV's in the phase of development which is just polishing the finished product, meaning Sakurai could easily have been given an early build, especially as Nintendo's clearly put cash into the game

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even without the leak people figured it out real quick (Brave is literally a translation of Hero Japanese name). I'm not against fun theories, but it was very obvious that it was Dragon quest. Sometimes the truth is just in our face and there's no point to overthink it with things like "But Banjo is brave too, it could be him!!!"

Correction. They figured out it was Erdrick only. And no, the leak was the core reason people refused to acknowledge other franchises. Which wasn't a real leak, but people guessing too. Verge/Tansut is the time people got hard-locked on DQ, since that was some form of evidence to confirm their theories. They had no reason to hard-lock on one thing without the information. Didn't change the one-sided factor, but it was better before any leaker theorized or spoke up. Which sadly wasn't for long. -_-

That was the consensus. There was pretty much no open thought about the entire situation. Anything but Erdrick was shut down hard. It was not remotely fun and that's why it was a bad speculation period to begin with.

Very few even entertained the thought of having the Class alone. Very few even guessed it(or that somebody else was the actual face). That's due to how one-sided it was. Forget that not everyone was sure it was DQ, but always thought it was plausible. The only time other ideas were taken seriously as an idea, even for a brief second, was if the character was legitimately about Courage(a synonym of Brave). Banjo/Swordfighters/Protagonists were pure joke ideas(well, moreso in how they were taken. They didn't make any sense. The only ones that were good were "importance" or "traits of a character" since we had barely Joker's codename to go off of. It's the only thing that didn't sound completely random to describe them as. Lord knows how badly later ones would've gotten. Especially as not everyone is a trait. Brave is pretty much the Name, just like PP uses its own name as a codename). The datamine leaks tend to go nuts because the names never followed a consistent design of how they're chosen. And with the information we had, before Brave, If Master came up in the second Pass, we'd have enough reason to believe it wasn't a straight name and possibly a trait, but back then? Eep.)

So yeah, it was like I said, a crapfest. One-sided discussion isn't great because people can't speak their own ideas without getting dogpiled or shut down hard. It didn't matter if somebody was right or wrong. It wasn't actually a fun period for speculation. It's one of the worst ones. Min Min's was better because it wasn't actually one-sided, but it wasn't much better either.

 

[Guynamednelson]

They literally brought in the announcer from Tekken just for one character, I think they could have gotten Xander to record one 2-second voiceline.

Funny thing is, they didn't even bring in Josh Keller to do a complete sentence. Only the "Wins" part of "Kazuya Mishima wins" is a new recording.

 

[GoodGrief741]

That was the consensus. There was pretty much no open thought about the entire situation. Anything but Erdrick was shut down hard. It was not remotely fun and that's why it was a bad speculation period to begin with.

I find it quite odd to call a months-long period in which we knew 100% who the next character was "a bad speculation period". Speculating is, literally, guessing or predicting a future outcome, and we did. Might have been unfun for you and bad in terms of supporting other characters, but in terms of speculation it's a high point for us.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I find it quite odd to call a months-long period in which we knew 100% who the next character was "a bad speculation period". Speculating is, literally, guessing or predicting a future outcome, and we did. Might have been unfun for you and bad in terms of supporting other characters, but in terms of speculation it's a high point for us.

I'm reminded of both Jon Cartright and an older post from I believe Swamp Sensei about how speculation seems to be seen as the true game for Smash and how a surprising amount of people think speculation needs to be exciting respectively. I'd agree it was on the dull side as it was 5 months waiting for the endresults but that's a different matter entirely