Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Fluttershy64]

I'm so bored of speculation, it seems like we've not got any credible leaks at all since Pyra/Mythra were released. I really hope we get someone for E3.

I know how you feel. But TBH, I don't mind that we've have not gotten any credible leaks at all since Pyra/Mythra. It will make the reveal at E3 much more exciting because we don't know who it is.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

1977年のきょう､カラーテレビゲーム6発売!!
カラーテレビゲーム15は少し後｡スマブラに出る作品としては最古のものでしょうか｡
パドルが可変抵抗ではなく､マイクロスイッチだったので､スマブラでも等速直線移動します｡
……なんのこっちゃですよね｡当時触ったからこそ判るハナシ｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/1NUsPZUrAP

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) June 1, 2021

Color TV Game 6 released today in 1977 !! Color TV-Game 15 is a little later. Is it the oldest work that appears in Smash Bros.? Since the paddle was not a variable resistor but a micro switch, it moves linearly at a constant speed even with a smasher. …… What a mess. You can tell just because you touched it at that time. #Smash Bros SP

 

[Dixie Kong]

I still don't get why Sakurai and co didn't just make Isaac a dlc fighter if he couldn't be in the base game, just like Banjo, who is also from a dead series. (I'm saying that as someone who loves Banjo)

 

[Shroob]

I still don't get why Sakurai and co didn't just make Isaac a dlc fighter if he couldn't be in the base game, just like Banjo, who is also from a dead series. (I'm saying that as someone who loves Banjo)

If Nintendo has a hand in the DLC, there's something to be said that they may have no interest in pushing a dead series as opposed to their living ones.


Likewise, Phil Spencer's commented on Banjo in the past, so who knows what went on with the Microsoft negations. For all we know, Phil could have straight up asked.

 

[Noipoi]

Likewise, Phil Spencer's commented on Banjo in the past, so who knows what went on with the Microsoft negations. For all we know, Phil could have straight up asked.

: Oh cool, going to smas-
: PHIL SAID YOU GOTTA TAKE US WITH YOU

 

[DarthEnderX]

let's say I called it right and Agumon does get in...

Last I checked, SwSh had passed the 21 M mark.

So yeah, needless to say, it doesn't seem like many people stood their ground. That or the number of long-time fans were swallowed alive by the massive number of new casuals playing Switch games.

Probably both.

Then Crown Tundra happened and "What if we.... put back in.... ALL the Legendaries...?"

I honestly don't understand why they allow legendaries in competitive at all...

Never bought SwSh, I can only hope Arceus is good. My opinion? Idk maybe? At least it's all Sinnoh themed so I can finally move on from Galar and hopefully not have to look back.

I have no intention of playing Diamond/Pearl remake or Arceus, since I doubt either will have new Pokemon.

 

[Shroob]

Probably both.

I honestly don't understand why they allow legendaries in competitive at all...

Truth be told, a good chunk of legendaries are crap. It'd be weird to ban something like Mesprit when it's terrible.


It's the ones who are extremely pushed to be good like Landorus-Therian, Tapu Koko, etc that cause issues.


And then you have box legends which are a whole different camp.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Dunno much about what GnW was like in the old games, but I don't think he ever relied on doing non-stop up Bs as he did now.

G&W main. Haven't played ultimate competitive like, at all, but I played a LOT on brawl and a fair bit into smash 4. Up-bs always been stupid good. For awhile, when bayonettas were still getting the hang of the top screen combo, you could mash upb in the string and if they weren't near perfect with the combo you could Star KO them with the windbox.

Then all the bayos started getting good and I stopped playing it never got nearly as bad, but I was having brawl MK flashbacks and didn't think it was worth sticking around for

 

[Fluttershy64]

If Nintendo has a hand in the DLC, there's something to be said that they may have no interest in pushing a dead series as opposed to their living ones.


Likewise, Phil Spencer's commented on Banjo in the past, so who knows what went on with the Microsoft negations. For all we know, Phil could have straight up asked.

The only way I see Issac being one of the last 2 DLC characters is if there is a New Golden Sun/Remake coming and Nintendo wants Issac to promote it.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

The countdown begins...

 

[Idon]

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

 

[spicynun]

: Oh cool, going to smas-
: PHIL SAID YOU GOTTA TAKE US WITH YOU

I want to find the source of "Banjo only got in thanks to Steve". I see it repeated everywhere, but the closest thing I can find is this: https://www.dexerto.com/smash/rare-says-minecraft-helped-get-banjo-smash-bros-ultimate-1321624/
Which just says Minecraft helped spark a relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft as companies. I really hope this isn't the article that has twisted into "Banjo only got in smash due to some weird contract in Steve's inclusion"

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Probably both.

I honestly don't understand why they allow legendaries in competitive at all...

I have no intention of playing Diamond/Pearl remake or Arceus, since I doubt either will have new Pokemon.

Honestly i'm more inclined to believe that most of Sword and shields sales came from casuals who havent played Pokemon or at least havent played since G2.
Because most of the people ive seen online who liked this game were those exact same people

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

That Marth statue actually looks pretty badass, if i was a statue collector i wold totally invest in this.

 

[Noipoi]

I want to find the source of "Banjo only got in thanks to Steve". I see it repeated everywhere, but the closest thing I can find is this: https://www.dexerto.com/smash/rare-says-minecraft-helped-get-banjo-smash-bros-ultimate-1321624/
Which just says Minecraft helped spark a relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft as companies. I really hope this isn't the article that has twisted into "Banjo only got in smash due to some weird contract in Steve's inclusion"

I think it’s mostly a joke. I’m sure Banjo was on Sakurai’s radar, and when talks began to get Minecraft in smash he may have brought up Banjo and Phil was down. Or maybe Phil brought it up and Sakurai was down.

Either way they’re in the game now. And I’m happy about that!

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

By "Smash 6", you mean that Smash Gatcha we were talking about yesterday, right?

The prices in the picture are actually the average prices required to purchase enough "Smash dollars" to be able to have a good chance of rolling said characters above them.

 

[N3ON]

The countdown begins...

Just pace yourself, still got about two weeks left.

I still don't get why Sakurai and co didn't just make Isaac a dlc fighter if he couldn't be in the base game, just like Banjo, who is also from a dead series. (I'm saying that as someone who loves Banjo)

I'd love that, though it'd be a bit of a slippery slope. There will always be characters people go "well, y made it, why couldn't x get included as well?".

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

I want to find the source of "Banjo only got in thanks to Steve". I see it repeated everywhere, but the closest thing I can find is this: https://www.dexerto.com/smash/rare-says-minecraft-helped-get-banjo-smash-bros-ultimate-1321624/
Which just says Minecraft helped spark a relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft as companies. I really hope this isn't the article that has twisted into "Banjo only got in smash due to some weird contract in Steve's inclusion"

I think that was more a joke than anything. I expect the reality is Banjo and Steve could've happened independently of each other, though both required the current cooperation between the companies to materialize. I think ascribing one as leverage or mandatory for the other is a bit tinfoil-y.

 

[ZelDan]

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

Throw in Chrom and one of the 3H house leaders (my preference being Edelgard) and that would be my ideal FE representation there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, I didn't view it as Steve helping Banjo get in. The way I interpreted it as is more Minecraft being notable for Nintendo to promote helped strength their relationship, which led to making it even easier to acquire Banjo. Even without Minecraft, I do think Banjo would've had a great chance to get in, since the Minecraft stuff happened after Phil Spencer outright said he liked the idea of the Bear and Bird being in Smash. By Minecraft stuff, I don't just mean cross-platform, but the Minecraft 3DS, along with the Halo Mash-Up Pack, were big things for Nintendo in general to get.

 

[osby]

I want to find the source of "Banjo only got in thanks to Steve". I see it repeated everywhere, but the closest thing I can find is this: https://www.dexerto.com/smash/rare-says-minecraft-helped-get-banjo-smash-bros-ultimate-1321624/
Which just says Minecraft helped spark a relationship between Nintendo and Microsoft as companies. I really hope this isn't the article that has twisted into "Banjo only got in smash due to some weird contract in Steve's inclusion"

I think it's mostly a joke after how Banjo fans claim that every third party they don't like got in thanks to contract shenanigans.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I still don't get why Sakurai and co didn't just make Isaac a dlc fighter if he couldn't be in the base game, just like Banjo, who is also from a dead series. (I'm saying that as someone who loves Banjo)

It ain't over til CP11 sings for me.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Seeing the Diamond and Pearl remakes is painful. If you're gonna outsource a game, outsource it to a studio that isn't most well known for some Mobile Pokémon shenanigans.

Some might say "don't judge it before you play!", but frankly you know what the gameplay of a Pokémon game is like. It's Pokémon. Everyone and their mother knows how it'll play, so when the visuals are that subpar I think it's clear why there's backlash. Even then said backlash is the minority and it'll sell a lot because Pokémon. Feelsbad

 

[Wunderwaft]

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

Going forward on the next Smash game, if Fire Emblem might get a shake up with it's roster then I hope Lyn makes it in somehow. A rushdown Iaijutsu fighter that utilizes speed and precision? Yes please!

 

[ZelDan]

The Diamond/Pearl remakes' visuals aren't stellar-looking by any means, but they definitely don't look bad. Not bad enough that they deserve to have a backlash over them at the very least.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

So, let me just say something that’ll probably be perceived as controversial, but I think a lot of people are putting WAY TOO MUCH stock in Crash being in.

I can understand why he could be in.

But...

I never saw the outcry for Crash like it is now before the reveal of DLC. Not even when Ultimate was announced. The characters are already decided, and a lot of people point to the recent pouring of Crash fan demand as the reason they feel he is a shoe-in VS. characters who have been heavily demanded for years. Some for over a decade now.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The Diamond/Pearl remakes' visuals aren't stellar-looking by any means, but they definitely don't look bad. Not bad enough that they deserve to have a backlash over them at the very least.

I don't entirely agree, I think the chibi style is cute and rather hilarious but the game really could have used some outlines to make things look better. Without the outlines, I feel the designs just blend together if that makes sense

 

[Shroob]

So, let me just say something that’ll probably be perceived as controversial, but I think a lot of people are putting WAY TOO MUCH stock in Crash being in.

I can understand why he could be in.

But...

I never saw the outcry for Crash like it is now before the reveal of DLC. Not even when Ultimate was announced. The characters are already decided, and a lot of people point to the recent pouring of Crash fan demand as the reason they feel he is a shoe-in VS. characters who have been heavily demanded for years. Some for over a decade now.

Truthfully though, not many of the DLC characters that we've gotten have been characters who were heavily demanded for years aside from like, Banjo, and probably Steve.


Granted, I'm also extremely iffy on Crash's chances. While I'd like him, Crash has, to me at least, started to feel more and more like the Doom Guy/Dante/Hayabusa scenario where the fanbase latches on to them for a long, long time, and nothing happens.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It ain't over til CP11 sings for me.

CP11 sings?

Pauline confirmed!

 

[Pillow]

Truth be told, a good chunk of legendaries are crap. It'd be weird to ban something like Mesprit when it's terrible.


It's the ones who are extremely pushed to be good like Landorus-Therian, Tapu Koko, etc that cause issues.


And then you have box legends which are a whole different camp.

The official pokemon competitive format is vgc anyway, which sometimes does just blanket ban all legendaries no matter how crap...and sometimes doesn’t.

Yeah trying to boycott a Pokemon game is like trying to boycott a Marvel movie. Good luck.


Well, it's June now (more or less). Nintendo news should start arriving quite soon, and Smash will follow in tow. We're almost there.

It won’t make an impact, but if you don’t think you’ll enjoy a game that’s reason enough to not buy it. I’m a diehard pokemon fan but I never bought SwSh, simply because I thought it was a **** game that wasn’t worth the time, knowing full well the games would be massive successes anyway.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Truthfully though, not many of the DLC characters that we've gotten have been characters who were heavily demanded for years aside from like, Banjo, and probably Steve.


Granted, I'm also extremely iffy on Crash's chances. While I'd like him, Crash has, to me at least, started to feel more and more like the Doom Guy/Dante/Hayabusa scenario where the fanbase latches on to them for a long, long time, and nothing happens.

That’s sort of what I’m trying to get at. No one predicted Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Sephiroth, or Pyra & Mythra. Ultimate has introduced a lot of highly requested fan picks though. Ridley, K.Rool, Simon, Isabelle, Hero, Banjo, and Steve.

I’m not saying Crash won’t happen. I’m saying I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment. I honestly believe Sora and a Pokémon from Sw/Sh are the last two characters. Everyone tinfoil hats all these rules and theories trying to spin a narrative. “Well, (insert company name) won’t have two characters in the same pass.” Okay, why not? I think it has to do more with franchises that companies. “The last character has to be HUGE.” Not necessarily. It’s a lot of wishful thinking and I just think it’s dangerous to set expectations so high.

 

[ZelDan]

I don't entirely agree, I think the chibi style is cute and rather hilarious but the game really could have used some outlines to make things look better. Without the outlines, I feel the designs just blend together if that makes sense

Sure, I can see that. Again, I don't think the game is amazing-looking and there's certainly room for improvement visually. I mean, look at the Link's Awakening Remake, that game shows how good a cartoony/chibi artstyle can look.

maybe saying "doesn't deserve backlash" wasn't the best way to put it, assuming backlash in this case is synonymous with "criticism." I just don't get the intense levels of hatred or disgust towards them I guess.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Sure, I can see that. Again, I don't think the game is amazing-looking and there's certainly room for improvement visually. I mean, look at the Link's Awakening Remake, that game shows how good a cartoony/chibi artstyle can look.

maybe saying "doesn't deserve backlash" wasn't the best way to put it, assuming backlash in this case is synonymous with "criticism." I just don't get the intense levels of hatred or disgust towards them I guess.

Ok that I agree with lmao

 

[N3ON]

Sure, I can see that. Again, I don't think the game is amazing-looking and there's certainly room for improvement visually. I mean, look at the Link's Awakening Remake, that game shows how good a cartoony/chibi artstyle can look.

maybe saying "doesn't deserve backlash" wasn't the best way to put it, assuming backlash in this case is synonymous with "criticism." I just don't get the intense levels of hatred or disgust towards them I guess.

I'm sure the game will be fun, and that matters most, I just like making fun of it because it looks like it could've been released two console gens ago.

Truthfully though, I don't care enough about the game to hate it, because I'm just kind of tired of Pokemon's formula, but you'd hope if they're going to outsource the game, they could give it to a team that can actually compensate for GF's weaknesses instead of highlighting them further.

 

[Shroob]

The official pokemon competitive format is vgc anyway, which sometimes does just blanket ban all legendaries no matter how crap...and sometimes doesn’t.

And sometimes they allow **** like Xerneas, Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza.


Wait, why did I think they knew anything about balance again?

 

[Idon]

Here's your Smash 6 Fire Emblem roster, bro:

View attachment 317309

As you can see, Ike is clearly the most valuable.

Oh yeah, I suppose I should provide some context to these.

As you know, Intelligent Systems is the developer of the Fire Emblem series. What you might not know is that they also now manufacture figures of characters from those games. Though there are many figures under the Fire Emblem IP, those are manufactured and distributed by other companies, most notably Goodsmile (figmas, nendoroids, etc).

This new series is the first ones manufactured directly by Intelligent Systems, first ones to come from games past their marketability period (10+ years), and first to be based off of new illustrations by the original artist.

First off, we have Lyn as depicted by Sachiko Wada, the artist of Blazing Blade (and all other GBA titles)


Next up, Ike as depicted by Senri Kita, the artist of Radiant Dawn (and Path of Radiance)


Finally, we have Marth as depicted by Daisuke Izuka, not the original artist of the original Fire Emblem, but the artist of the remakes: Shadow Dragon/New Mystery of the Emblem.

These characters seem to be a mix of "historically significant" and "super popular" to Fire Emblem.
That may be why that after Marth they are not doing any more figures for the foreseeable future and that these "three" are seen as the safest ones to bank on when it comes to artisan statuettes.

Fun fact: Marth in Smash Bros in his current incarnation is not based off a design by Izuka, but of Cipher art drawn by Yusuke Kozaki of Awakening and Fates fame.

 

[Shroob]

Oh yeah, I suppose I should provide some context to these.

As you know, Intelligent Systems is the developer of the Fire Emblem series. What you might not know is that they also now manufacture figures of characters from those games. Though there are many figures under the Fire Emblem IP, those are manufactured and distributed by other companies, most notably Goodsmile (figmas, nendoroids, etc).

This new series is the first ones manufactured directly by Intelligent Systems, first ones to come from games past their marketability period (10+ years), and first to be based off of new illustrations by the original artist.
View attachment 317320
First off, we have Lyn as depicted by Sachiko Wada, the artist of Blazing Blade

View attachment 317321
Next up, Ike as depicted by Senri Kita, the artist of Radiant Dawn

View attachment 317322
Finally, we have Marth as depicted by Daisuke Izuka, not the original artist of the original Fire Emblem, but the artist of the remake: Shadow Dragon/New Mystery of the Emblem.

These characters seem to be a mix of "historically significant" and "super popular" to Fire Emblem.
That may be why that after Marth they are not doing any more figures for the foreseeable future and that these "three" are seen as the safest ones to bank on when it comes to artisan statuettes.

Fun fact: Marth in Smash Bros in his current incarnation is not based off a design by Izuka, but of Cipher art drawn by Yusuke Kozaki of Awakening and Fates fame.
View attachment 317323

Wasn't Shadow Dragon done by the guy who did Ghost in the Shell? That real oil-paint-y look?

That’s sort of what I’m trying to get at. No one predicted Joker, Terry, Byleth, Min Min, Sephiroth, or Pyra & Mythra. Ultimate has introduced a lot of highly requested fan picks though. Ridley, K.Rool, Simon, Isabelle, Hero, Banjo, and Steve.

I’m not saying Crash won’t happen. I’m saying I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment. I honestly believe Sora and a Pokémon from Sw/Sh are the last two characters. Everyone tinfoil hats all these rules and theories trying to spin a narrative. “Well, (insert company name) won’t have two characters in the same pass.” Okay, why not? I think it has to do more with franchises that companies. “The last character has to be HUGE.” Not necessarily. It’s a lot of wishful thinking and I just think it’s dangerous to set expectations so high.

Now, that's funny you say that.


You say that the final 2 don't need to go out on a bang, but then you bring up expecting Sora, a character who'd honestly be huge... because you'd have to get Disney to play ball. Hell, I'd go as far as to say someone like Sora would be bigger than Master Chief at this point. Microsoft's already all friendly with Nintendo, so Master Chief in Smash wouldn't even be that surprising. Sora though? Having to go through Disney? That'd be huge.

 

[Idon]

Wasn't Shadow Dragon done by the guy who did Ghost in the Shell? That real oil-paint-y look?

Oh right, Masamune Shirow.
I kinda forgot about him. My bad.

He does most of the artwork for Shadow Dragon, but Daisuke Izuka's illustrates the newly introduced characters original to the Shadow Dragon remake, Athena, Norne, etc etc.

For IS's marketing purposes though, Izuka is the certified "Marth" guy as they don't seem to ever be calling Shirow back for some reason.

 

[Shroob]

Oh right, Masamune Shirow.
I kinda forgot about him. My bad.

Don't feel bad.

I've seen his extended catalogue, I try to forget too.

 

[SuperSmashStephen]

Wasn't Shadow Dragon done by the guy who did Ghost in the Shell? That real oil-paint-y look?

Now, that's funny you say that.


You say that the final 2 don't need to go out on a bang, but then you bring up expecting Sora, a character who'd honestly be huge... because you'd have to get Disney to play ball. Hell, I'd go as far as to say someone like Sora would be bigger than Master Chief at this point. Microsoft's already all friendly with Nintendo, so Master Chief in Smash wouldn't even be that surprising. Sora though? Having to go through Disney? That'd be huge.

I was trying to say that both characters don’t have to be huge. While I agree, yes, Sora would be internet breaking for the majority of the fanbase, adding a Sw/Sh Pokémon would excite many, but disappoint many as well because “Pokémon is overrepresented.” It’s the largest multimedia franchise on the planet. It would sell, and at the end of the day, Nintendo is a business.

 

[osby]

I was trying to say that both characters don’t have to be huge. While I agree, yes, Sora would be internet breaking for the majority of the fanbase, adding a Sw/Sh Pokémon would excite many, but disappoint many as well because “Pokémon is overrepresented.” It’s the largest multimedia franchise on the planet. It would sell, and at the end of the day, Nintendo is a business.

I think it's less about Pokemon being overrepresented and more about a vocal minority hating Sword and Shield with a passion.

 

[Idon]

I'd be cool with Pokemon BDSP if it wasn't 60 ****in dollars.

Either justify the price with content or don't charge full price.