Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Guynamednelson]

Also that sentence I bolded is even funnier when you know that Nintendo themselves SAID IT during a report that DLC deals were made to appeal to gamers as a whole to attract them to smash.

While still adding. It's all marketing fluff and everyone fell for it.

 

[Nekoo]

While still adding. It's all marketing fluff and everyone fell for it.

Report for investor isn't really marketing fluff that we are supposed to see

 

[Gengar84]

Octoling time baby

and CP11 is minimum four letters? Can’t really say that shade fits Ahri but I’ll take itbut also uuuuugh don’t make me hope for Neku or Elma I can see them using that shade especially the latter

as for the bonus if it happens... that’s anyone’s guess

I could totally see Elma fitting the pink background. I love the Xenoblade series and Elma is my favorite of all the main protagonists so she could be a lot of fun (technically Cross is the MC but I’d much rather see Elma). I wonder how they would implement her Skell. I imagine it would probably be used for her final smash. Hopefully they’d be able to get the rights to use Xenoblade X music. That game had a lot of great songs.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I could totally see Elma fitting the pink background. I love the Xenoblade series and Elma is my favorite of all the main protagonists so she could be a lot of fun (technically Cross is the MC but I’d much rather see Elma). I wonder how they would implement her Skell. I imagine it would probably be used for her final smash. Hopefully they’d be able to get the rights to use Xenoblade X music. That game had a lot of great songs.

CP10 (pink) had a minimum 8 letters while CP11 had a minimum 4, so kinda mixed up the packs there

 

[Sage of Ice]

IT IS FINALLY DONE. HUZZAH.

I made a graphic showing all the color predictions thus far for Fighter 10, 11 and a potential bonus one (if that ever happens of course.)

I also threw in a bonus... predicting how many letters/spaces the next fighter might have as well!

Because of how less reliable the model gets when you predict farther stuff, I'll try to update this graphic when Fighter 10 is revealed (well, provided a double reveal doesn't happen.)

Porky could fit the bonus, let's goooooooo

the pink could work for bandana dee if you squint at it, and i've gotten very good at squinting since the fighter's pass started

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The pink is clearly for a Danganronpa character, the colour is to reference what they do to the competitive scene after they murder the metagame

That makes sense. Closer to Arson then? Thanks for the clarification.




Just want to explain why I think it should work the way I suggested. It's actually a part of a philosophy I would want to bring to any Smash Bros character; I would love to see other franchises broken down like this.


Digimon has three core aesthetics:

- BRANCHING EVOLUTIONS
This is a key idea Digimon has carried with it since it's birth as a V-Pet. Usually depending on whether the game leans more into V-Pet or RPG.

The anime tend to be the weakest at displaying this, probably due to Budget. Even it often includes Dark Digivolutions to try and convey the idea a little, and I have got to hand it 2020 it's working hard to remedy that.

Although also not a video game itself the new card game does an amazing job at conveying the concept that Digimon do have "healthier" evolutions that compliment their prior forms (how V-Pets do it) while still allowing you to create custom evolution to raise the Digimon you most need (how the RPGs do it). I would like to see Smash Bros take a similar approach.

- BOND OF CARE
This is the fundamental backbone of the V-Pet genre. They are all about he responsibility to look out for their well being; the difference with Digimon is that as Mon genre is that they also protect and guide you in return. This is why I feel it is important to have a system in place which allows you to manage a gauge to look after them. Including it in the Digivolution mechanic simplifies that and helps slot it in naturally. Other ideas like having to feed them would be more accurate to the source material to a degree but carry the downside of adding another complicated mechanic instead of combining it all into one central thesis.

- MEANINGFUL CONSEQUENCES
Now obviously Digimon wouldn't be the first game with permadeath like elements, and since they actually revert to an egg when they die it's actually less permanent than Fire Emblem's. Nonetheless that sense of consequences is something that even Digimon games without those direct mechanics often instead use to make their plots slightly heavier. It's undoubtedly part of the inspiration for the deadly aspects they have hinted at being in Survive, even if it's a totally different approach to the high concept where it's your fellow Tamers you can neglect to death.

A penalty for failing to take care of your V-Pet seems like the most natural mechanical inclusion possible.

But your character dying, or even devolving all the way to Botamon, is a huge ask of the player. It's much more reasonable to only have them drop down to Koromon via a warp devolution. It still makes the same statement but would be a fair bit more balanced.

I'm not sure what you mean by Arson, so to summarize in brief, you know how Devil Trigger works in MvC? That's an install.

I get the point but it feels too convoluted, especially as Digimon has the nasty hurdle of needing multiple models and movesets for the whole Digivolution aspect which is too big for Sakurai to ignore. Cause like, the way I see Agumon being handled is being able to digivolve into Greymon and Wargreymon, but that means 3 different models with different proportions meaning they can't share animations. While Pokemon Trainer has it, I think it's telling that the closest we got to another Pokemon Trainer were Pythra who have the same body shape and animations, only having 4 attacks that aren't shared with the other. Which is a damn shame as even before I decided to try and get more into Digimon, I felt Agumon would be sick due to fond memories of Rumble Arena.

 

[Twilord]

I would totally be down for a Digimon character. I haven’t played many games in the series but I loved Digimon World on the PS1 and Cyber Sleuth on the PS4. Unfortunately, my favorite Digimon (Ogremon, Meramon, and Titanmon) are really unlikely to get in over the much more iconic Agumon. I do think any character chosen could be fun and it would be great to see them finally cross over with Pokémon in Smash.

Amusingly that means you have played two of there main three game series; the other is their V-Pet line.

They have three - The V-Pets, The V-Pet/RPG hybrids ("Digimon World" series), and the RPGs ("Digimon Story" series - includes Cyber Sleuth).

Digimon World Next Order is unfortunately PS4 exclusive.


They are kinda hoping their new project Digimon Survive (multiplatform) will be good enough to launch a fourth video game pillar. The new card game might also be a new pillar which will hopefully soon get a digital version and be video game adjacent.

 

[chocolatejr9]

The pink is clearly for a Danganronpa character, the colour is to reference what they do to the competitive scene after they murder the metagame
I'm not sure what you mean by Arson, so to summarize in brief, you know how Devil Trigger works in MvC? That's an install.

I get the point but it feels too convoluted, especially as Digimon has the nasty hurdle of needing multiple models and movesets for the whole Digivolution aspect which is too big for Sakurai to ignore. Cause like, the way I see Agumon being handled is being able to digivolve into Greymon and Wargreymon, but that means 3 different models with different proportions meaning they can't share animations. While Pokemon Trainer has it, I think it's telling that the closest we got to another Pokemon Trainer were Pythra who have the same body shape and animations, only having 4 attacks that aren't shared with the other. Which is a damn shame as even before I decided to try and get more into Digimon, I felt Agumon would be sick due to fond memories of Rumble Arena.

ding dong dong ding

A body has been discovered!

 

[MattX20]

If Pink is one of our last two colors for the pass, Ayumi has a pink dress in the Missing Heir remake she wears for the latter half of the game.

 

[Gengar84]

Amusingly that means you have played two of there main three game series; the other is their V-Pet line.

They have three - The V-Pets, The V-Pet/RPG hybrids ("Digimon World" series), and the RPGs ("Digimon Story" series - includes Cyber Sleuth).

Digimon World Next Order is unfortunately PS4 exclusive.


They are kinda hoping their new project Digimon Survive (multiplatform) will be good enough to launch a fourth video game pillar. The new card game might also be a new pillar which will hopefully soon get a digital version and be video game adjacent.

I remember being really interested in Digimon Survive but then I guess I forgot all about it. I love Fire Emblem and Disgaea so if Survive is anywhere near as good as those, I’ll definitely be picking it up.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If this color thing is true and the last character is Master Chief given the green. I'm seeing a double reveal then, no way are they gonna pass him up on E3.

As for the pink, my guess would be either Octoling or Reimu.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that it would be weird if Master Chief showed up on the Switch without Mario showing up on the XBox.

 

[Schnee117]

I think that it would be weird if Master Chief showed up on the Switch without Mario showing up on the XBox.

Then I guess it's been weird for nearly 6 months now.

 

[Dinoman96]

I think that it would be weird if Master Chief showed up on the Switch without Mario showing up on the XBox.

I don't think Microsoft cares about that at all lmao

 

[RileyXY1]

I also don't really see a third party company double dipping and getting two fighters in a single pass, and I don't expect any more big characters because I believe that Steve and Sephiroth took up most of FP2's budget.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

The pink is clearly for a Danganronpa character, the colour is to reference what they do to the competitive scene after they murder the metagame
I'm not sure what you mean by Arson, so to summarize in brief, you know how Devil Trigger works in MvC? That's an install.

I get the point but it feels too convoluted, especially as Digimon has the nasty hurdle of needing multiple models and movesets for the whole Digivolution aspect which is too big for Sakurai to ignore. Cause like, the way I see Agumon being handled is being able to digivolve into Greymon and Wargreymon, but that means 3 different models with different proportions meaning they can't share animations. While Pokemon Trainer has it, I think it's telling that the closest we got to another Pokemon Trainer were Pythra who have the same body shape and animations, only having 4 attacks that aren't shared with the other. Which is a damn shame as even before I decided to try and get more into Digimon, I felt Agumon would be sick due to fond memories of Rumble Arena.

He meant Arsene, he just spelt it wrong.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

I honestly think E3 will be a double reveal. It just feels right to end on a bang like that rather than in a Nintendo Direct or waiting till some other big show.

As well, in terms of double dipping. I’m unsure. Theres not really a solid reason I can think of to not do it, but it also hasn’t happened so far. There isn’t any precedent, but neither did Spirits or a Second Fully Unique rep from the same series, yet we still got Min Min and Sephiroth.

I just hope I like them, my Most Wanteds are basically impossible to get so I just hope CP10 and CP11 are cool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

He meant Arsene, he just spelt it wrong.

Ah, in that case I'll do a quick writeup

Arsene is similar but isn't actually controlled like Dragon Install, Devil Trigger, Feng Shui Engine, Gold Freeza, etc are where you can pop it off whenever you want as long as you have the resources, Arsene's more of a comeback mechanic in execution

 

[Megadoomer]

I think that it would be weird if Master Chief showed up on the Switch without Mario showing up on the XBox.

They added Master Chief (along with other Microsoft characters) to the Wii U and Switch versions of Minecraft: https://www.gameinformer.com/b/news...r-chief-skins-appear-in-minecraft-switch.aspx

It's not quite the same thing, but it's about as much as what Cloud had going into Smash 4.

 

[Garteam]

I honestly think that FP10 will receive a more vocal reaction against them than FP11. In many ways, the perception that E3 needs a showstopper has overtaken the perception that the final character of Smash Ultimate needs to be a showstopper. Expectations are higher, so it feels like there'll be more people who feel "betrayed" that their guy didn't get in.

Granted, this all also depends heavily on who FP10 and FP11 actually are. If one is a popular request and the other isn't, then it really doesn't matter what venue they are revealed at.

 

[SNEKeater]

Callin Master Chief for CP11 eh?


Edit: Can someone please post? I wanna say something else but don't want a double posting infraction.

That shade of red is... kinda Lloyd like.

Just saying, my man.

Spoiler

It could fit.

I actually thought of both Lloyd and Chief when I saw epicmartin7 's post. And I think that's a very reasonable double reveal for E3.

Adol Christin would kinda fit with the pink one as well, IMO.

 

[Louie G.]

Obviously the color speculation should be taken with a huge grain of salt but man, that green is perfect for Master Chief lmao.

As for the double dip argument, I’m very tired having of it by now but all I’ll say is it would be ridiculous to skip out on such a monumental series like Halo because Minecraft, an entirely different game, is here already. If they wanted Chief (if, obviously) I can’t imagine they would let something so arbitrary as their parent company limit them. Master Chief and Steve are so much bigger than the concept of “reps”.

Especially since FP2 hasn’t really focused on “expansion” or strengthening those bonds the same way FP1 was. I’d have agreed with you when we were getting four brand new series from two new companies + Atlus (and SE). Everyone involved in FP2 so far has already been involved in FP1 though, so the priorities have changed.

 

[Twilord]

I get the point but it feels too convoluted, especially as Digimon has the nasty hurdle of needing multiple models and movesets for the whole Digivolution aspect which is too big for Sakurai to ignore. Cause like, the way I see Agumon being handled is being able to digivolve into Greymon and Wargreymon, but that means 3 different models with different proportions meaning they can't share animations. While Pokemon Trainer has it, I think it's telling that the closest we got to another Pokemon Trainer were Pythra who have the same body shape and animations, only having 4 attacks that aren't shared with the other. Which is a damn shame as even before I decided to try and get more into Digimon, I felt Agumon would be sick due to fond memories of Rumble Arena.

Well the thing is, if they do it the way I'm thinking about doing for a game mod I've been theory crafting for a bit now, the evolved forms would basically be Hero-like reskins and a half-super-mushroom; but with buffs that each follow a theme, like Monado Arts.

Koromon would be the only exception; and it would be a blob with only two attacks.


Maybe throw in different breath weapons, but that is totally optional since all of their fire-breaths would work fine as similar fire-balls for each. Even if they do that it would be easier than trying to force Greymon and WarGreymon into the same moveset.

He meant Arsene, he just spelt it wrong.

Correct. For some reason I always assume Joker is a juvenile delinquent who burned his school down and that his Persona is named after that.

 

[Sage of Ice]

I just hope I like them, my Most Wanteds are basically impossible to get so I just hope CP10 and CP11 are cool.

i feel this. just about everything i really care about is dead in the water, and i rarely hear a name that interests me being taken seriously. i'm so glad Pass 2 is the end of it; if i get something right here at the end i'll be pleasantly surprised, but for the most part i just want to take the L and move on

 

[Technomage]

Just wondering why do people want another Namco rep?

(Is it because Namco worked on Smash?)

That, and because Namco has quite a few characters that'd be great for Smash, such as Heihachi Mishima, Nightmare, Lloyd Irving, Yuri Lowell, Velvet Crowe, Agumon, Mametchi, Solaire of Astora, Chosen Undead, Reiji Arisu, Klonoa, KOS-MOS, the Katamari Prince, a .hack character, and the Valkyrie.

 

[Guynamednelson]

it would be ridiculous to skip out on such a monumental series like Halo because Minecraft, an entirely different game, is here already

Don't worry, they won't do that.

Instead, they'll skip out on such a monumental series like Halo because Minecraft and actual FFVII content are here and that was enough to get the majority to buy the pass.

 

[Twilord]

That, and because Namco has quite a few characters that'd be great for Smash, such as Heihachi Mishima, Nightmare, Lloyd Irving, Yuri Lowell, Velvet Crowe, Agumon, Mametchi, Solaire of Astora, Chosen Undead, Reiji Arisu, Klonoa, KOS-MOS, the Katamari Prince, a .hack character, and the Valkyrie.

So while I'm biased towards Agumon and KOS-MOS, I must admit just from the demo I've played in the past The Prince would be super fun to see in action in Smash Bros. Kinda wish they'd at least been an Assist Trophy.

 

[Louie G.]

Don't worry, they won't do that.

Instead, they'll skip out on such a monumental series like Halo because Minecraft and actual FFVII content are here and that was enough to get the majority to buy the pass.

Ok, sure. My point was that Steve wouldn’t be the sole obstacle for Chief’s inclusion, responding specifically to the prospect of double dipping, so this is not particularly relevant.

 

[Garteam]

Given how much Smash Speculation has changed since 2015, I think another ballot could work if the proper rules were put in place:

1. Make it clear that the results will not impact Smash Bros. Ultimate but future Smash Bros. games, the results will not be made public, and success on the ballot does not automatically mean a character will be included.
2. Limit access to the ballot to those who actually own Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to prevent botting (Plus, I don't think it's that unreasonable that you need to actually play Smash to vote on who's in it)
3. Grant 9 votes per person to discourage strategic voting.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Don't worry, they won't do that.

Instead, they'll skip out on such a monumental series like Halo because Minecraft and actual FFVII content are here and that was enough to get the majority to buy the pass.

And possibly take up most of their budget...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Given how much Smash Speculation has changed since 2015, I think another ballot could work if the proper rules were put in place:

1. Make it clear that the results will not impact Smash Bros. Ultimate but future Smash Bros. games, the results will not be made public, and success on the ballot does not automatically mean a character will be included.
2. Limit access to the ballot to those who actually own Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to prevent botting (Plus, I don't think it's that unreasonable that you need to actually play Smash to vote on who's in it)
3. Grant 9 votes per person to discourage strategic voting.

How would the 9 votes work? Tracking by IP or MAC address? Cause using different devices is hard to prevent

 

[ahemtoday]

You know what? I've strayed away from making predictions at all, but I've decided I'm gonna bet it all on black. The last two characters are Reimu and Master Chief.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How would the 9 votes work? Tracking by IP or MAC address? Cause using different devices is hard to prevent

You list 9 characters that you want, and why.

 

[chocolatejr9]

How would the 9 votes work? Tracking by IP or MAC address? Cause using different devices is hard to prevent

Require a Nintendo account, maybe?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Given how much Smash Speculation has changed since 2015, I think another ballot could work if the proper rules were put in place:

1. Make it clear that the results will not impact Smash Bros. Ultimate but future Smash Bros. games, the results will not be made public, and success on the ballot does not automatically mean a character will be included.
2. Limit access to the ballot to those who actually own Super Smash Bros. Ultimate to prevent botting (Plus, I don't think it's that unreasonable that you need to actually play Smash to vote on who's in it)
3. Grant 9 votes per person to discourage strategic voting.

The last ballot made it clear that it'd be used for future installments so I really don't see the need to make that point any more clear, but as for the second and third points, they feel contradictory, you want to oppose botting but let people who live by themselves/are the only Smash fans in a household get more votes than people who'd end up sharing votes?

 

[Schnee117]

The last ballot made it clear that it'd be used for future installments so I really don't see the need to make that point any more clear, but as for the second and third points, they feel contradictory, you want to oppose botting but let people who live by themselves/are the only Smash fans in a household get more votes than people who'd end up sharing votes?

I'd imagine it'd be more like 1 set of 9 votes per account that actually has a Nintendo Account so people with separate accounts on the same system aren't just left out.

The issue does however then become making a bunch of fake accounts, so maybe limit it to people who had an account before the ballot goes live (which would have to be quickly after announcement) or something like that. It won't stop people who already have alt accounts beforehand but it'll stop it from happening after the fact.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I kind of want to vote for concepts as well like certain modes, music, more Echoes in general, better online

but here’s my 9 characters vote:
1. Elma
2. Mecha-Fiora
3. Neku
4. Octoling if they’re not among the last two; if they are then KOS-MOS
5. Ahri if she’s not among the last two; if she is then T-elos
6. Reimu if she’s not among the last two; if she is then any of the previous ones that don’t make it
7. Black Shadow
8. Violet (Persona 5 Royal)
9. **** it, Crash if he doesn’t make it. The fans deserve this at least

Everyone Is Here Again is a concept so I’m not listing it but if I could vote for concepts I’d add that

 

[True Blue Warrior]

The levels of desire were very similar,

This is revisionism. Another Xenoblade character was far more wanted than another Fire Emblem character.

Yeah, only Mario and Luigi are Marios.

That lady massaging the police officer adds to the strangeness of this clip.

Granted, this all also depends heavily on who FP10 and FP11 actually are. If one is a popular request and the other isn't, then it really doesn't matter what venue they are revealed at.

Pretty much. A character like, say, Skull Kid isn’t going to get the same reaction as someone like Ayumi. Not that it really matters to me, if Ayumi is hypothetically revealed there with interesting gameplay I’m okay.

 

[Twilord]

You know what? I've strayed away from making predictions at all, but I've decided I'm gonna bet it all on black. The last two characters are Reimu and Master Chief.

Deals from black

Hmmm... two large guns - two shooty game characters... that might be a good sign for you.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Um about that shade of pink...
Ahri fits it perfectly.

And for that brown-is bonus character color..