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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

N3ON

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You know things like the Nintendo E3 Direct aren't actually technically part of E3. It's not run under the ESA. It's just timed around the event because it reflects what will be on the showfloor (not applicable this year) and in the Treehouse stream, which are parts of E3.

So those companies could still be in the Nintendo presentation. Or the Microsoft one, if they're doing something akin to Nintendo.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Sol Badguy would both make sense at E3 and fit the pattern of “Smash doesn’t end on an EPIC note”.
You know things like the Nintendo E3 Direct aren't actually technically part of E3. It's not run under the ESA. It's just timed around the event because it reflects what will be on the showfloor (not applicable this year) and in the Treehouse stream, which are parts of E3.

So those companies could still be in the Nintendo presentation. Or the Microsoft one, if they're doing something akin to Nintendo.
This is a solid point. Its easy to imagine companies not taking major part in E3 but gladly allowing stuff showcased in a Nintendo Direct or Microsoft presentation. Even a company like Konami I could easily see having something like Castlevania Collection 2 pop up for Nintendo's showcase.
 
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Wigglerman

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I'm not sure how Microsoft is seen as 'greedy' when they could clearly come to an agreeable arrangement for both sides since we got Banjo AND Steve. If they were being 'greedy' or 'asking too much' I don't think Nintendo would have went through with the deal(s). If anything, Microsoft (Or Phil at the very least) only ever seemed highly enthusiastic to have Microsoft enter the ring to some degree with Nintendo. Seemed like an equally enthusiastic arrangement overall.
 
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Gazorpazorpfield

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FP2 is different. We have two Nintendo characters, one Square Enix character and one Microsoft character - the latter two from companies that already received content in FP1 as is.
This is a good point, and I hope you're right. Master Chief is my main man, and 2B has always seemed dope to me.

On that note, anyone know the state of the Nier Automata PC port? I'm interested in trying it out but don't want to get Original-Dark-Souls-PC-Port'ed.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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...huh. Coincidentally one of Sol’s ENGLISH VOs is Troy Baker. Who a lot of insiders were joking about at the Game Awards but more so for Jonesy in Smash
 

Louie G.

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Its funny, Microsoft used to be the picture of greed, especially after the antitrust lawsuit towards it.

Now, 20 years later, so many other companies have come along and been such worse PR examples of it that Microsoft's stuff in the 90s almost seems quaint by comparison.
As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft is the good guy nowadays. I was a little put off by their purchase of Bethesda, but it doesn't seem like things will change very much as Microsoft continues to allow its subsidiaries (see: Minecraft) to put out content for other consoles / devices. Game Pass is on PC and it feels like Microsoft is hinting at some big Switch plans as well. This is leaps beyond the flexibility (or lack thereof) displayed by Nintendo and Sony, let alone all their shady business practices and mask-off greed. Microsoft and Phil Spencer actually feel like they care about video games.

And yeah, not to mention how easy it sounds like it was to get Banjo in Smash, which Phil was a strong advocate of as far back as Smash 4 DLC. If Microsoft was that greedy I don't believe we'd have gotten Banjo at all, since there's little longterm profit to be had there on either end. Sure, the PR is good and everything is done with some profit in mind, but otherwise it's just a nice gesture.
 
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SKX31

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This is a solid point. Its easy to imagine companies not taking major part in E3 but gladly allowing stuff showcased in a Nintendo Direct or Microsoft presentation. Even a company like Konami I could easily see having something like Castlevania Collection 2 pop up for Nintendo's showcase.
Well, speak of the devil:


Its funny, Microsoft used to be the picture of greed, especially after the antitrust lawsuit towards it.

Now, 20 years later, so many other companies have come along and been such worse PR examples of it that Microsoft's stuff in the 90s almost seems quaint by comparison.
TBF, other examples of greed of the time were far overshadowed by Microsoft's dominance of the computer market at the time (Acclaim is one I can think of of the top of my head) or gained their reputation for greed later on: EA kinda had that reputation already by the late 90s, but it took hold in the mid 2000s, especially when EA Sports continued its yearly formula and EA went on their little acquisition spree. The rise of microtransactions likewise lead to a whole host of other corps becoming associated with it (Activision is a similar example to EA, but again became associated with greed during that time).
 
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N3ON

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Microsoft were pretty ****ing **** during the Don Mattrick, 8th gen turnover era, and their anti-consumer anti-used-games anti-backwards compatibility perpetual-Kinect perpetual-online nonsense bit them so hard in the butt that not only was Mr. Mattrick "offered" a very nice "lateral move" to Zynga (remember Zynga?) but it's been an uphill battle for Phil Spencer since then to regain the foothold of the one gen they weren't stumbling over themselves. I mean that launch presentation was one of the more significant ****-you's to consumers to date, and thus one of their biggest ****-ups.

But Phil Spencer seems like a good guy, as far as heads of giant divisions of even bigger companies go.

Of the big gaming companies, and especially of the western big gaming companies, Microsoft actually seems the most amicable at the moment. They seem the most likely to cooperate and collaborate, and they have very little ego. They have fewer studio closures and I don't recall hearing too many stories of crunch within their walls, though I obv could be forgetting some. I mean, they can't really afford to be arrogant and coast like the other two, whoever is in third generally has to eat humble pie and make compromises in favour of the fans.
 
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Gazorpazorpfield

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As far as I'm concerned, Microsoft is the good guy nowadays. I was a little put off by their purchase of Bethesda, but it doesn't seem like things will change very much as Microsoft continues to allow its subsidiaries (see: Minecraft) to put out content for other consoles / devices. Game Pass is on PC and it feels like Microsoft is hinting at some big Switch plans as well. This is leaps beyond the flexibility (or lack thereof) displayed by Nintendo and Sony, let alone all their shady business practices and mask-off greed. Microsoft and Phil Spencer actually feel like they care about video games.
To be fair there's no way MS would be making these consumer-friendly moves if they hadn't gotten their ass kicked so hard last gen. If/when Xbox gains more competitive market share, I wouldn't put it past them to pivot hard. Even now it's like you said: they shelled out 7.5 billion dollars not to fund games that wouldn't otherwise be made, but effectively just to keep them from Sony. I'm cool with them and Game Pass and all that for now, but the Xbox of 2013 didn't just disappear imo :ohwell:
 

chocolatejr9

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Ehh don't worry they usually unveil their upcoming hot games at one of the big three conferences, mostly Microsoft's surprisingly. With Sony gone and Nintendo......being Nintendo, I'd have my eyes on Microsoft for the upcoming E3. Rumors are they have a treasure of goodies planned to be revealed at this E3 and it's surely gonna be exciting.
Do the rumors mention who they bought out this time?

ba dum tsh
 

Wigglerman

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To be fair there's no way MS would be making these consumer-friendly moves if they hadn't gotten their ass kicked so hard last gen. If/when Xbox gains more competitive market share, I wouldn't put it past them to pivot hard. Even now it's like you said: they shelled out 7.5 billion dollars not to fund games that wouldn't otherwise be made, but effectively just to keep them from Sony. I'm cool with them and Game Pass and all that for now, but the Xbox of 2013 didn't just disappear imo :ohwell:
In the case of the Bethesda buyout I don't particularly think negatively of Microsoft's move. Any company (Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo) would leap at the chance to snatch up Bethesda's catalogue. It also wouldn't hurt Bethesda in general to have one of the 'big three' owning them to get their quality back on track. Yes, it does inevitably make Bethesda games 'platform exclusive' now. But I doubt their sole reason for buying Bethesda was just to flip the bird to Sony in specific. Just seems like an odd flex.
 

Rie Sonomura

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Really? Nobody remembers what I was talking about, Sol’s JP VO retweeting one of the FP2 character announcements? I know it was NOT Min Min OR Pythra’s
 

Ivander

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...huh. Coincidentally one of Sol’s ENGLISH VOs is Troy Baker. Who a lot of insiders were joking about at the Game Awards but more so for Jonesy in Smash
Really? Nobody remembers what I was talking about, Sol’s JP VO retweeting one of the FP2 character announcements? I know it was NOT Min Min OR Pythra’s
I think we did talk something about Troy Baker. Either before or during the Game Awards. It may have been about Jonesy when we learned he was voicing Jonesy in that one Fortnite trailer, but I think we mentioned about how Troy Baker also did Yuri Lowell.
 
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N3ON

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In the case of the Bethesda buyout I don't particularly think negatively of Microsoft's move. Any company (Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo) would leap at the chance to snatch up Bethesda's catalogue. It also wouldn't hurt Bethesda in general to have one of the 'big three' owning them to get their quality back on track. Yes, it does inevitably make Bethesda games 'platform exclusive' now. But I doubt their sole reason for buying Bethesda was just to flip the bird to Sony in specific. Just seems like an odd flex.
If Bethesda were headed towards bankruptcy and went to Nintendo and pleaded to be bought for pennies on the dollar I bet Nintendo would go "damn, sucks to suck I guess, say hi to Embracer Group when they buy all your properties" and go

 

Louie G.

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Really? Nobody remembers what I was talking about, Sol’s JP VO retweeting one of the FP2 character announcements? I know it was NOT Min Min OR Pythra’s
I don't recall that, but I wouldn't put much stock in it either. Otherwise we'd have to start bringing up how Puyo's director retweeted Byleth's presentation again... I certainly wish it meant something, but until proven otherwise I'm pretty sure these guys are just Smash fans like the rest of us.
 

Rie Sonomura

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I think we did talk something about Troy Baker. Either before or during the Game Awards. It may have been about Jonesy when we learned he was voicing Jonesy in that one Fortnite trailer, but I think we mentioned about how Troy Baker also did Yuri Lowell.
I very much remember something about Sol’s JAPANESE VO tho...
 

Ivander

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I very much remember something about Sol’s JAPANESE VO tho...
Oh, did you look up Joji/Jouji Nakata? Joji Nakata is a very prominent Seiyuu, especially in regards to the Fate series for voicing Kotomine Kirei and King Hassan. He does tweet stuff in regards to Fate.

Edit: Like if you find his Twitter account, you can possibly find whether or not he re-tweeted on something in regards to FP2.
 
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chocolatejr9

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If Bethesda were headed towards bankruptcy and went to Nintendo and pleaded to be bought for pennies on the dollar I bet Nintendo would go "damn, sucks to suck I guess, say hi to Embracer Group when they buy all your properties" and go

To be fair, I don't remember Bethesda being particularly close to Nintendo...
 

N3ON

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To be fair, I don't remember Bethesda being particularly close to Nintendo...
Not closer than they were to the other two, no, my post was more just about how Nintendo probably doesn't give a **** about acquiring 99% of devs and would see them go bust before intervening, even if an acquisition would stand them in better stead.

I mean, Nintendo has a hell of a war chest. And they could benefit from a bigger stable of western devs. They just don't give a damn, because they don't need to.
 
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Wigglerman

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If Bethesda were headed towards bankruptcy and went to Nintendo and pleaded to be bought for pennies on the dollar I bet Nintendo would go "damn, sucks to suck I guess, say hi to Embracer Group when they buy all your properties" and go

You act like Nintendo would be Bethesda's first option. They'd shop for a buyer and I have no doubts Microsoft or Sony WOULD be the one to pull the trigger (if EA/Activision didn't do so first) but I would be a bit pessimistic to believe Nintendo wouldn't at least consider it if the option were there. There's big names in that catalogue, high grossing names no less. Though I would earnestly agree Nintendo would be the least likely of them all to pull the trigger simply due to those names not being quite 'on brand'. But I'd bet a few chins would be rubbed in contemplation regardless.
 

Wunderwaft

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Do the rumors mention who they bought out this time?

ba dum tsh
The only thing that got rumored is that Gears 6 isn't getting revealed at this E3 because Microsoft has too much stuff to reveal that there isn't enough space for Gears. Makes me wonder the hell they have in store if Gears can't even make the cut.

 
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Rie Sonomura

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Oh, did you look up Joji/Jouji Nakata? Joji Nakata is a very prominent Seiyuu, especially in regards to the Fate series for voicing Kotomine Kirei and King Hassan. He does tweet stuff in regards to Fate.

Edit: Like if you find his Twitter account, you can possibly find whether or not he re-tweeted on something in regards to FP2.
It was either him or Daisuke Ishiwatari (am I spelling his name right?)
 

N3ON

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You act like Nintendo would be Bethesda's first option. They'd shop for a buyer and I have no doubts Microsoft or Sony WOULD be the one to pull the trigger (if EA/Activision didn't do so first) but I would be a bit pessimistic to believe Nintendo wouldn't at least consider it if the option were there. There's big names in that catalogue, high grossing names no less. Though I would earnestly agree Nintendo would be the least likely of them all to pull the trigger simply due to those names not being quite 'on brand'. But I'd bet a few chins would be rubbed in contemplation regardless.
I would've made that post regardless of if it was Bethesda or any other dev, because the post was an indictment of Nintendo's isolationism and austerity.

It was also fairly tongue-in-cheek, because obviously Nintendo wouldn't say "sucks to suck".
 

chocolatejr9

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The only thing that got rumored is that Gears 6 isn't getting revealed at this E3 because Microsoft has too much stuff to reveal that there isn't enough space for Gears. Makes me wonder the hell they have in store if Gears can't even make the cut.

Well, that's SOMETHING, at least...
 

SNEKeater

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Konami not being at E3 sucks, but their official post gives us some interesting tidbits. Them being on with "multiple key projects" and that we can expect "news in the upcoming months" is what cautiously excites me. If they just wanted to say "hey people, sorry, but we're not going to E3" they could have just said that.
But the actual statement isn't really that, and it gives me a feeling of "yeah, it sucks, we're not going to E3 this year, but hey... we're working on some cool things".

I don't think they're that dumb to be talking about the next Pro Evolution Soccer game or something like that, they know people aren't expecting that from them, that's why the statement makes me curious.

I mean, in this fandom's dictionary, "anime" means "human", so...
This is truly a fascinating fact. I still remember people saying the first Fighter Pass was all anime except for Banjo, and I still wanna know in which universe Terry is anime.

Didn’t Sol’s JP VO retweet I think the Steve announcement? Or what would be Sephiroth’s reveal?
I kinda remember this, because I think I can recall someone on this thread posting that info before Steve's or Sephiroth's reveal.

But... I don't think that means anything. Maybe Joji Tanaka is fan of Smash or Nintendo and he felt like retweeting it.

Edit: Daisuke's was the original japanese VA for Sol in the first few games, but that's it. He's the creator, director and composer of the series, by the way.
 
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Gazorpazorpfield

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This is truly a fascinating fact. I still remember people saying the first Fighter Pass was all anime except for Banjo, and I still wanna know in which universe Terry is anime.
Terry and the Street Fighter guys all seem to waffle on how anime styled they are from game to game. Even in Smash, Terry doesn't really look the part but his render kinda does.

Banjo looks weirdly different from his render too. Like his portrait is exactly how they should look, but then in-game he's made of clay or something
 

Gnateb

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Whether or not a voice actor RTed anything, I think Sol's chances are solid. Or at least an Arc character, but it'd be hard to represent Arc without GG.
 
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NonSpecificGuy

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Konami not being at E3 likely throws the rumored Silent Hill projects and Metal Gear Solid Remake project under the bus for this year though. Which is a shame but not unexpected. Especially since Bloober just finished The Medium and they’re one of the studios rumored to be on a Silent Hill.

GetsuFumaDen not being there hurts but they consider it indie so I’m not surprised. I want that game so bad man.
 

Ivander

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GetsuFumaDen not being there hurts but they consider it indie so I’m not surprised. I want that game so bad man.
GetsuFumaDen might not be there because it is coming to Early Access on Steam around the middle of May. Sure, it won't come to Switch for a long time and not being at E3 means less likelyhood of a Switch demo, but if Early Access means that they can fix any major issues and problems before the Switch version comes out so that the Switch version will be good at release, I'm all for it.
 

Chaosmaster8753

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Konami not being at E3 likely throws the rumored Silent Hill projects and Metal Gear Solid Remake project under the bus for this year though. Which is a shame but not unexpected. Especially since Bloober just finished The Medium and they’re one of the studios rumored to be on a Silent Hill.

GetsuFumaDen not being there hurts but they consider it indie so I’m not surprised. I want that game so bad man.
Pretty sure Toyama leaving Sony Japan already killed that one Silent Hill rumor from last year, at least.
 

SharkLord

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Well there's also BlazBlue, a spiritual successor to Guilty Gear.
Yeah, BlazBlue's dropped off hard in Smash spec. I think it's a matter of timing; When Smash started opening up to smaller, less Nintendo-centric third-parties, BlazBlue has been wrapping up the plotline and was relegated to the crossover game and a couple spinoffs here and there. Meanwhile, Guilty Gear had been getting back in action with Xrd and especially Strive, plus the bonus of being the OG anime fighter in the first place, and so it became the uncontested ArcSys candidate for speculation.
 

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In case anyone's interested:
Timeline Color.png

Here's a visualization of playable characters by debut year (1980-2019) Columns are sorted top-down by date.
  • A blue outline indicates a character's actual debut.
  • A red outline indicates a costume with a different year of origin than the character itself. (NES Little Mac, Warioware Wario, Koopalings, Heroes)
    • When a character has multiple costumes, the earliest year is made blue and the other one is considered the costume.
    • The exception to this is the Koopalings and Heroes, since they're different characters altogether. They are listed in red, while Bowser Jr. and the Luminary are listed in blue.
    • Basic recolor references are not included (Golfer Mario, Fire Luigi, etc.) This involved some subjective calls on my part.
  • A green outline indicates that the character has multiple incarnations which are technically different individuals. (The only cases of this are Donkey Kong, Link, and Zelda.)
  • A yellow outline indicates a Final Smash transformation with a separate year of origin from a character itself. (Super Sonic, Giga Bowser, etc.)
    • In the case of Mr. Game & Watch's Octopus, I opted not to include it since Mr. Game and Watch is an amalgamation of characters from several games, and I felt it would be inconsistent to include Octopus but not every other character that he transforms into, like Chef, Judge, and Flagman. His debut game is considered Ball, the earliest reference in his moveset, which is what Smash also goes by.
    • I did not include transformations from the same game (Shadow Mario,) side characters that appear in Final Smashes (Mega Men,) or Final Smashes that aren't transformations (Poltergust.)
  • A pink outline was used exclusively for Ganon (1986), who is technically the same individual as Ganondorf (1998) in a different form. Ganon (1998) is also included as a Final Smash transformation, but is technically the same individual as both of the above. The Zelda timeline is weird.
And a simplified version with only characters:
Character Only Timeline.png
 
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