Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[TheLamerGamer]

Didn't Sakurai said that was no echo fighters in fighters pass?

At 30:51

Don't scare me like that lol.

I was just scrolling through and suddenly saw SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE DIRECT and got excited for a few seconds before I properly read it, and now I'm just sad.

 

[CannonStreak]

Don't scare me like that lol.

I was just scrolling through and suddenly saw SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE DIRECT and got excited for a few seconds before I properly read it, and now I'm just sad.

I know how you feel, LamerGamer.

That said, I do wonder if we'll see anything like a final Smash Direct like the one for the last game?

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I know how you feel, LamerGamer.

That said, I do wonder if we'll see anything like a final Smash Direct like the one for the last game?

I hope so, it would be nice to give the game a proper send off after it's finished.

If the bonus character thing ends up being true I could see it being a "one more thing" surprise reveal at the end of that as well.

 

[CannonStreak]

I hope so, it would be nice to give the game a proper send off after it's finished.

If the bonus character thing ends up being true I could see it being a "one more thing" surprise reveal at the end of that as well.

Oh yeah! That one more thing, the bonus character, would actually be a nice surprise.

 

[N3ON]

Need to make one of those "don't make me tap the sign" memes about iconicness being subjective.

You'll never make headway debating such intangible parameters.

 

[SharkLord]

That's nice and all but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases. The fact that she's still an enormous who in smash speculation outside of this thread and the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts. Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic

but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases.

I already addressed that. Unorthodox, fan-driven series. It's not about the sales, it's about what fans do with the series. Doujin mangas, animations, fan games, music covers, figures, that one time Suika somehow ended up on ESPN. Stuff like that.

The entire point of my post was that Touhou isn't driven by sales like traditional franchises, and if we judged it just by the official games we wouldn't be talking about it in the first place. If you basically ignore that point, it seems like you didn't really read over the writeup (Granted, I'm pretty guilty of that too, so it's not like a top-tier crime or anything).

the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts.
Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic

Honestly? I'm beginning to think you just don't like Touhou at this point. You've brushed off the points I've raised and you've only really brought up other series with the points of being "More iconic," without explaining why they're more iconic not to mention the fact that iconicness is extremely subjective and hard to define.

I don't want to become the guy who's overly aggressive and accusatory, but the way you've more or less ignored my points and not brought up any counterpoints or reasoning for why the vaguely-defined umbrella of "Other people's most-wanteds" are bigger just makes you come off as biased.

 

[chocolatejr9]

That's nice and all but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases. The fact that she's still an enormous who in smash speculation outside of this thread and the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts. Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic

Remember these two words, my friend: Japanese Bias.

 

[Idon]

Incredibly iconic meme in video game history:

Corresponding sales numbers:

 

[7NATOR]

I got to ask

Do you guys think a Certain rumor from the very early days of DLC speculation might have more merit, especially since we know the Company associated with the rumor has 100% been confirmed to have talked to Nintendo about Smash?

 

[CannonStreak]

I got to ask

Do you guys think a Certain rumor from the very early days of DLC speculation might have more merit, especially since we know the Company associated with the rumor has 100% been confirmed to have talked to Nintendo about Smash?

Which rumor is that, may I ask?

 

[MrMcNuts]

Incredibly iconic meme in video game history:
View attachment 312203
Corresponding sales numbers:
View attachment 312204

View attachment 312205

To be fair I think shin megami has grown a bit (partially thanks to persona)

 

[cashregister9]

I got to ask

Do you guys think a Certain rumor from the very early days of DLC speculation might have more merit, especially since we know the Company associated with the rumor has 100% been confirmed to have talked to Nintendo about Smash?

Your going to have to be more specific because my brain immediately went to Pain ElementalBoshi.

 

[SKX31]

Honestly, i wish they could have added more echos in the base game.

Which is fine, it's just that Sakurai and co. were strapped for time. It's evident in a lot of areas (limited single player outside of WoL, scaled down and poorly implemented online, some severe jank like the Chromcide being much more consistent).

That's nice and all but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases. The fact that she's still an enormous who in smash speculation outside of this thread and the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts. Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic

One problem with judging iconicness on sales is that piracy can and has been often cutting into that. That's the case with the original Doom:

"It was clear it was a phenomenally cool game. However, that it would be that big a phenomenon, you're never quite aware of that," recalls Tom Hall. "Wolfenstein 3D sold ten times what Commander Keen did. And Doom sold ten times that."

"It sold a couple of hundred thousand copies during its first year or so. Not that many really, considering its impact," adds Petersen. "It was pirated unmercifully."

Other similar cases involving a lot of piracy include KoF, Dota etc. All those cases they were often pirated - and that's how they spread. Touhou is on a similar premise here where a lot of its growth (in Japan primarily, but also elsewhere) was not predicated on your ordinary $60 sale of a game. Which is one major reason why I've grown to distrust the use of the word "iconic" - it rests on an aspect of game sales not every game follows.

Also, being "iconic" is relative to region. Reimu's far from this status in NA / (Western) EU, but she is definetely way more known in Japan. Same goes for characters like Sakura Wars' Sakura. Some "literal whos" in Japan include characters like most of GTAs cast and characters like Spyro, which are absolutely much more well known in NA / EU.

And that's before we get into other regions. A lot of Russian gamers would consider Rayman a "literal who", but consider Dota 100 % "iconic". Part of the reason why is that more people do not have as much money to spend on $60 games. So more people are instead going to lean on cheap, F2P or even pirated games to get their gaming itch scratched. But, as games like Doom and indeed Dissidia proved, piracy is not limited to poorer countries either.

 

[CannonStreak]

That's nice and all but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases. The fact that she's still an enormous who in smash speculation outside of this thread and the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts. Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic

I just want to say; although others have said the like about this, there is no such thing as something being truly iconic. Iconic is subjective. People, concepts, and anything famous have a different impact and are seen differently to different people. You can't just use Mario or anything of the like as an example of "truly iconic". That isn't how it works.

 

[7NATOR]

Which rumor is that, may I ask?

Your going to have to be more specific because my brain immediately went to Pain ElementalBoshi.

Well I would think a little mystery would be fun. but I will say it was a rumor before any of the FP1 characters (Joker included) were known

 

[CannonStreak]

Well I would think a little mystery would be fun. but I will say it was a rumor before any of the FP1 characters (Joker included) were known

Here we go. At least you are right about the mystery being fun thing. We could use that kind of spice every now and then.

 

[N3ON]

I got to ask

Do you guys think a Certain rumor from the very early days of DLC speculation might have more merit, especially since we know the Company associated with the rumor has 100% been confirmed to have talked to Nintendo about Smash?

No

I don't know which rumour you're referring to

But no

Stop exhuming dead "leaks"

They're dead. Leave them be.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Incredibly iconic meme in video game history:
View attachment 312203
Corresponding sales numbers:
View attachment 312204

View attachment 312205

That meme isn't exactly the best for advertising SMT anyway, considering it's easier to consider Devil May Cry when the text says, you know.

 

[SharkLord]

Which is fine, it's just that Sakurai and co. were strapped for time. It's evident in a lot of areas (limited single player outside of WoL, scaled down and poorly implemented online, some severe jank like the Chromcide being much more consistent).



One problem with judging iconicness on sales is that piracy can and has been often cutting into that. That's the case with the original Doom:



Other similar cases involving a lot of piracy include KoF, Dota etc. All those cases they were often pirated - and that's how they spread. Touhou is on a similar premise here where a lot of its growth (in Japan primarily, but also elsewhere) was not predicated on your ordinary $60 sale of a game. Which is one major reason why I've grown to distrust the use of the word "iconic" - it rests on an aspect of game sales not every game follows.

Also, being "iconic" is relative to region. Reimu's far from this status in NA / (Western) EU, but she is definetely way more known in Japan. Same goes for characters like Sakura Wars' Sakura. Some "literal whos" in Japan include characters like most of GTAs cast and characters like Spyro, which are absolutely much more well known in NA / EU.

And that's before we get into other regions. A lot of Russian gamers would consider Rayman a "literal who", but consider Dota 100 % "iconic". Part of the reason why is that more people do not have as much money to spend on $60 games. So more people are instead going to lean on cheap, F2P or even pirated games to get their gaming itch scratched. But, as games like Doom and indeed Dissidia proved, piracy is not limited to poorer countries either.

With you bringing up KoF, I'd also like to add that judging games solely by raw sales is going to hurt the ratings of not just unorthodox fan-driven works, but also quarter-munching arcade games like Space Invaders and free-to-play games like, dare I say it, Fortni-(Burns to ash upon invoking the name of the Cursed Game)

But speaking seriously, while "Sell this game and see how many copies are shipped" is one of the most prominent strategies, it's not the only strategy, and judging games by sales alone is a rather shaky strategy, to say the least. Not to mention games getting warmer reception later on and the extra variable of ports muddying the waters further.

What I'm saying is, while sales can be used as a bit of an indicator for how big a series is, they're just a fraction of a greater whole, and sometimes circumstances (Like piracy, as you mentioned) means that sales are a smaller fraction than normal. Short version being, Sales aren't everything.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Other similar cases involving a lot of piracy include KoF, Dota etc. All those cases they were often pirated - and that's how they spread. Touhou is on a similar premise here where a lot of its growth (in Japan primarily, but also elsewhere) was not predicated on your ordinary $60 sale of a game. Which is one major reason why I've grown to distrust the use of the word "iconic" - it rests on an aspect of game sales not every game follows.

Also, being "iconic" is relative to region. Reimu's far from this status in NA / (Western) EU, but she is definetely way more known in Japan. Same goes for characters like Sakura Wars' Sakura. Some "literal whos" in Japan include characters like most of GTAs cast and characters like Spyro, which are absolutely much more well known in NA / EU.

And that's before we get into other regions. A lot of Russian gamers would consider Rayman a "literal who", but consider Dota 100 % "iconic". Part of the reason why is that more people do not have as much money to spend on $60 games. So more people are instead going to lean on cheap, F2P or even pirated games to get their gaming itch scratched. But, as games like Doom and indeed Dissidia proved, piracy is not limited to poorer countries either.

Well put. Hell, if we went by sales alone to define who's iconic, then GTA is more iconic than like 90% of the cast, and yet it's not even on a lot of people's radars.

That's not to say sales don't matter, but please, let's not go back to Volume-1 era of sales being the end-all for discussions.

 

[7NATOR]

No

I don't know which rumour you're referring to

But no

Stop exhuming dead "leaks"

They're dead. Leave them be.

I have good reason to "Exhume" this one, and not really because of the Rumor itself (though it is a factor), but other factors that can be seen ingame, as well as some other theories that might line up with it

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I got to ask

Do you guys think a Certain rumor from the very early days of DLC speculation might have more merit, especially since we know the Company associated with the rumor has 100% been confirmed to have talked to Nintendo about Smash?

Can I take guesses about what that company is?

is it a Japanese or western company?

 

[7NATOR]

Can I take guesses about what that company is?

is it a Japanese or western company?

You can, but I think maybe saying specifically what type of Company it is might give it away

I will say it's a Company that's not represented in the game through Character, Mii costume, or spirits

 

[Louie G.]

I will say it's a Company that's not represented in the game through Character, Mii costume, or spirits

Lmao I hope you’re not trying to allude to Katalina

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Sooooo with New Pokemon Snap coming out pretty quick here...

How would a Pokemon Snap stage go? Like let's imagine that there is some kind of traveling stage based on a Pokemon Snap course and it comes with a Pokemon character of some kind. Which Pokemon would it be?

 

[SharkLord]

Sooooo with New Pokemon Snap coming out pretty quick here...

How would a Pokemon Snap stage go? Like let's imagine that there is some kind of traveling stage based on a Pokemon Snap course and it comes with a Pokemon character of some kind. Which Pokemon would it be?

Perhaps there's a gimmick where the stage settles on a place when a picture is snapped? It would be a neat visual effect, and it would also represent the gameplay pretty well without being too intrusive.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Perhaps there's a gimmick where the stage settles on a place when a picture is snapped? It would be a neat visual effect, and it would also represent the gameplay pretty well without being too intrusive.

So you can take a photo when the stage takes a photo?


Sakurai pops in and says:

"YO DAWG! I heard you like photos, so I put a photo in your photo so that you can look at a photo while you're looking at a photo!"

 

[MooMew64]

Y'all really arguing "iconic" as a debatable factor in here again, huh.

It's nice to know no matter how much the world changes, home will always be the same.

Yeah, if recognizability and sales numbers mattered as the end all be all, we wouldn't have like, 80% of this game's roster and it would all be Mario, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing characters.

The term "iconic" in this fanbase is nothing but a buzz word used by fanbases as a way to prop up their characters above others and nothing more. I personally wouldn't use it as an objective factor in speculation, but you do you.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

If I don’t know who it is then they’re not Iconic so stop talking about this “REIMI” guy. He sounds like a big nerd.

 

[Technomage]

You can, but I think maybe saying specifically what type of Company it is might give it away

I will say it's a Company that's not represented in the game through Character, Mii costume, or spirits

Is the rumor about Crash or Scorpion?

I was also gonna say Ryu Hayabusa, but then I remembered that Koei Tecmo already got spirit representation due to the Age of Calamity event; does that count?

 

[Guynamednelson]

With you bringing up KoF, I'd also like to add that judging games solely by raw sales is going to hurt the ratings of not just unorthodox fan-driven works, but also quarter-munching arcade games

Speaking of KoF and arcade games, SNK might not be counting how many times a bootleg copy of KoF has been played, and they were aplenty, considering SNK blames piracy for their downfall in 2000 enough for the villains of NeoGeo Battle Coliseum to be called WAREZ.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You can, but I think maybe saying specifically what type of Company it is might give it away

I will say it's a Company that's not represented in the game through Character, Mii costume, or spirits

You said they were confirmed to have spoken to Nintendo about Smash tho

idk which company fits both bills

 

[CapitaineCrash]

With you bringing up KoF, I'd also like to add that judging games solely by raw sales is going to hurt the ratings of not just unorthodox fan-driven works, but also quarter-munching arcade games like Space Invaders and free-to-play games like, dare I say it, Fortni-(Burns to ash upon invoking the name of the Cursed Game)

But speaking seriously, while "Sell this game and see how many copies are shipped" is one of the most prominent strategies, it's not the only strategy, and judging games by sales alone is a rather shaky strategy, to say the least. Not to mention games getting warmer reception later on and the extra variable of ports muddying the waters further.

What I'm saying is, while sales can be used as a bit of an indicator for how big a series is, they're just a fraction of a greater whole, and sometimes circumstances (Like piracy, as you mentioned) means that sales are a smaller fraction than normal. Short version being, Sales aren't everything.

This discussion about Touhou and sales remind me of Donchan
Taiko no Tatsujin have a total sales of 10 millions as of 2019, which isn't that small for a japanese rhythm game but it isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. That being said, a lot of the Taiko no tatsujin series popularity are from Japanese arcade. While it's hard to really say how popular the arcade is, I would say it is quite popular considering the amount of crossover they did.

Y'all really arguing "iconic" as a debatable factor in here again, huh.

View attachment 312211

It's nice to know no matter how much the world changes, home will always be the same.

Yeah, if recognizability and sales numbers mattered as the end all be all, we wouldn't have like, 80% of this game's roster and it would all be Mario, Pokemon, and Animal Crossing characters.

The term "iconic" in this fanbase is nothing but a buzz word used by fanbases as a way to prop up their characters above others and nothing more. I personally wouldn't use it as an objective factor in speculation, but you do you.

I mean, to be fair iconicness is important to some extent. Nintendo isn't going to add some random characters just because "it could be fun" or something like that. More popular characters have more chances to get in the game, even if sales doesn't mean everything (and please don't bring that out of context Terry quotes)

 

[Chaosmaster8753]

What other basis is there for a character outside of FP2 besides that shindig with the Australian eShop or whatever sparked that speculation in the first place?

 

[Technomage]

What other basis is there for a character outside of FP2 besides that shindig with the Australian eShop or whatever sparked that speculation in the first place?

I think the "Character Select Screen Limit" theory is another thing keeping that possibility open.

 

[MooMew64]

I mean, to be fair iconicness is important to some extent. Nintendo isn't going to add some random characters just because "it could be fun" or something like that. More popular characters have more chances to get in the game, even if sales doesn't mean everything (and please don't bring that out of context Terry quotes)

The Terry quote isn't really used out of context, it's pretty clear that Sakurai was saying "Hey, you don't need to be some big super star to get in".

Which was already proven years ago with:

Sales data does not equate into Smash eligibility. Truth of the matter is, they add who they want, and we pretend that there's a science to it all because we're bored and like discussing it for the sake of a sense of community. Coming from someone who is a hardcore speculator.

 

[7NATOR]

Lmao I hope you’re not trying to allude to Katalina

Not Specifically her, but you figured it out

I was doing some Smash speculation Analysis, and one thing I actually found out recently was that Cygames, the company, actually did More than 1 Fire Emblem music track

List of SSBU Music (Fire Emblem series) - SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki (ssbwiki.com)

I intially thought they did one Fire Emblem music track for Byleth's DLC Pack. Not only did they do multiple, but more importantly, they actually did a Music track in the base game of Smash Ultimate (Destiny Ablaze)

So when thinking of that and how that one rumor about Katalina (which was paired with Steve from the same leaker), It did raise some eyebrows, especially considering the current situation of the Company and such. Since we know Steve was discussed really early on, and we also know that Cygames did have involvement with Smash in some form during the base game, it was interesting to say the least

Now to be honest, the rumor itself is kind of shaky since Hitagi, the leaker behind these rumors, Kind of flipped flopped at times, and they were wrong about no Atlus character in Smash Ultimate. I will say they probably had some legit info about Samurai Showdown and other info about Granblue, but perhaps their Smash info was shaky, so the rumor isn't really the big reason I Paid attention

Besides the lack of Spirits, Miis, and Characters despite the knowledge that Cygames did 100% talk to Nintendo, There are 2 theories that I currently follow that they fit right under

Tournament Theory

So I've been acknowledging the lack of the 2010's tournament since sometime after Steve came out. It was weird that the 2010's tournament was still missing so long after the other Era tourneys, and it became much more noticeable when it was still missing by the time Sephiroth showed up, since we have 2 characters (Min Min, Steve) who fit the tourney theme, So my thought process is that we would get another 2010's character sometime in the past

Well we got Pyra/Mythra, who originated in the 2010's, yet the 2010's tourney still is lacking, which could imply that yet another 2010's character might be one of the last 2 FP2 characters.

But not only that, but I've also noticed the lack of a Swordfighter tourney. Considering the amount of Swordfighters (for better or worse, depending on who you ask), and with 2 characters in FP2 (Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra) Known for their Sword (With Masumune being Iconic part of Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra being literal Blades), it's absence does feel weird.

Now I will say is that we have probably weeks to go before the next reveal, so one of these 2 tourneys could still show up in some time, though I will say I would think of these 2 tourneys will get priority over a TNT Tournament if they were to come before any of the next 2 reveals. Still I will give it more time for these tour

In any case, A Candidate from Granblue, or Dragalia Lost, would likely have a Sword as a major part of the moveset, and both of these franchises were made in the 2010s, which is why the lack of these tourneys does match up with one of these franchises being represented, especially since there hasn't been Spirit events or anything, especially since there have been great times to have them (Dragalia's 2nd anniversary date)


Vergeben Deconfirm Theory

People don't like this theory for reasons, so I'll make it quick

Vergeben Deconfirm List Theory Part 3.6 (The Extension) - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

In regards to Cygames, the Company wasn't listed on the list at all (neither the OG or Accurate version). Considering the Company was associated with a Popular leak in the early days of Smash Speculation, and the list was happy enough to list of other Japanese Companies like Nippon Ichi and Falcom which were kind of more niche topics in Smash Speculation (at the time, since Falcom has been more prominent in Speculation), I would think Vergeben would have asked about this, or be able to list of the Company on the list

Considering we know that Cygames did talk to Nintendo, In regards to this theory it does raise some Red Flags potentially

Conclusion


In Conclusion, I find the situation surrounding this company to be interesting when taking into account all these variables. Now what I could see is that since Nintendo and Cygames were collabing on Dragalia Lost around the time of Smash Ultimate's release, they may have wanted Cygames to just make some music tracks for Smash and that's that

But whether it went far or not, It's confirmed that there was discussion between the 2 companies regarding Smash, which is what the rumor did say. Cygames is the only Company we know talked to Nintendo 100%, that doesn't have some form of Spirit, Mii, Character content in the game. Maybe it could be because their main properties are mainly Mobile, but we have seen they were willing to have Mobile content, at least in the music department.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Perhaps MOVIE Knuckles can make it into Smash as promo DLC? Regular Knuckles is an Assist, MOVIE Knuckles is DLC hahaha

Set photos of props for Sonic the Hedgehog 2 came out.

Spoiler

 

[Technomage]

Not Specifically her, but you figured it out

I was doing some Smash speculation Analysis, and one thing I actually found out recently was that Cygames, the company, actually did More than 1 Fire Emblem music track

List of SSBU Music (Fire Emblem series) - SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki (ssbwiki.com)

I intially thought they did one Fire Emblem music track for Byleth's DLC Pack. Not only did they do multiple, but more importantly, they actually did a Music track in the base game of Smash Ultimate (Destiny Ablaze)

So when thinking of that and how that one rumor about Katalina (which was paired with Steve from the same leaker), It did raise some eyebrows, especially considering the current situation of the Company and such. Since we know Steve was discussed really early on, and we also know that Cygames did have involvement with Smash in some form during the base game, it was interesting to say the least

Now to be honest, the rumor itself is kind of shaky since Hitagi, the leaker behind these rumors, Kind of flipped flopped at times, and they were wrong about no Atlus character in Smash Ultimate. I will say they probably had some legit info about Samurai Showdown and other info about Granblue, but perhaps their Smash info was shaky, so the rumor isn't really the big reason I Paid attention

Besides the lack of Spirits, Miis, and Characters despite the knowledge that Cygames did 100% talk to Nintendo, There are 2 theories that I currently follow that they fit right under

Tournament Theory

So I've been acknowledging the lack of the 2010's tournament since sometime after Steve came out. It was weird that the 2010's tournament was still missing so long after the other Era tourneys, and it became much more noticeable when it was still missing by the time Sephiroth showed up, since we have 2 characters (Min Min, Steve) who fit the tourney theme, So my thought process is that we would get another 2010's character sometime in the past

Well we got Pyra/Mythra, who originated in the 2010's, yet the 2010's tourney still is lacking, which could imply that yet another 2010's character might be one of the last 2 FP2 characters.

But not only that, but I've also noticed the lack of a Swordfighter tourney. Considering the amount of Swordfighters (for better or worse, depending on who you ask), and with 2 characters in FP2 (Sephiroth and Pyra/Mythra) Known for their Sword (With Masumune being Iconic part of Sephiroth, and Pyra/Mythra being literal Blades), it's absence does feel weird.

Now I will say is that we have probably weeks to go before the next reveal, so one of these 2 tourneys could still show up in some time, though I will say I would think of these 2 tourneys will get priority over a TNT Tournament if they were to come before any of the next 2 reveals. Still I will give it more time for these tour

In any case, A Candidate from Granblue, or Dragalia Lost, would likely have a Sword as a major part of the moveset, and both of these franchises were made in the 2010s, which is why the lack of these tourneys does match up with one of these franchises being represented, especially since there hasn't been Spirit events or anything, especially since there have been great times to have them (Dragalia's 2nd anniversary date)


Vergeben Deconfirm Theory

People don't like this theory for reasons, so I'll make it quick

Vergeben Deconfirm List Theory Part 3.6 (The Extension) - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (gamespot.com)

In regards to Cygames, the Company wasn't listed on the list at all (neither the OG or Accurate version). Considering the Company was associated with a Popular leak in the early days of Smash Speculation, and the list was happy enough to list of other Japanese Companies like Nippon Ichi and Falcom which were kind of more niche topics in Smash Speculation (at the time, since Falcom has been more prominent in Speculation), I would think Vergeben would have asked about this, or be able to list of the Company on the list

Considering we know that Cygames did talk to Nintendo, In regards to this theory it does raise some Red Flags potentially

Conclusion


In Conclusion, I find the situation surrounding this company to be interesting when taking into account all these variables. Now what I could see is that since Nintendo and Cygames were collabing on Dragalia Lost around the time of Smash Ultimate's release, they may have wanted Cygames to just make some music tracks for Smash and that's that

But whether it went far or not, It's confirmed that there was discussion between the 2 companies regarding Smash, which is what the rumor did say. Cygames is the only Company we know talked to Nintendo 100%, that doesn't have some form of Spirit, Mii, Character content in the game. Maybe it could be because their main properties are mainly Mobile, but we have seen they were willing to have Mobile content, at least in the music department.

Interesting theory, I do kinda like the idea of Katalina entering the roster. ^^

With that said, since every CP has some form of uniqueness in their mechanics, what would Katalina's be?

 

[SharkLord]

This discussion about Touhou and sales remind me of Donchan
Taiko no Tatsujin have a total sales of 10 millions as of 2019, which isn't that small for a japanese rhythm game but it isn't that big in the grand scheme of things. That being said, a lot of the Taiko no tatsujin series popularity are from Japanese arcade. While it's hard to really say how popular the arcade is, I would say it is quite popular considering the amount of crossover they did.

That's amusingly fitting, because Taiku no Tatsujin actually has crossed over with Touhou, as I've mentioned before.

And Yakuza

And also Dragon Ball Super

And various Disney movies

Oh yeah, and Jimmy frickign Neutron

If there's anything to be learned from this, it's that all roads lead to Don-Chan