Sk3tchy
Smash Rookie
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I don't think that would really deconfirm other characters from the same series of games, but only the characters themselves.
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
- Thread starter Cyn
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RGFS
Smash Journeyman
There's this awesome concept for Gigas to be a MewTwo echo from a long time ago and I kinda really want that to happen instead of the similar-looking Ninten kid. Sure, it's weird to echo a different series but the concept is so good that I don't care.
What Impa version would you want?
I wonder if they would actually do Galacta Knight with Meta already having such a similar alt. (Tbh they might.)
I kinda prefer Big Boss as he has more importance to the MGS series as a whole. He's the original bad guy of the series and is the main playable character* in plenty of the games. I don't know, maybe you can change my mind though.
Smash 4 Charizard as an echo? Interesting, but I'm not sure if they could sell one move like that even if it comes in a pack.
Bass has too many unique features. Wouldn't Proto Man work better as a Mega Man echo? He'd have a shield reflector with only his first jump as a unique mechanic. If they could implement Bass mechanics as an echo, it would be really sweet though.
Man, this echo pass idea is so cool, I hope they do actually do some echos. It's so interesting. Maybe modding Ultimate can get good enough for fans to do this all one day too.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
This is my excuse to start a conversation about Sash Lilac (Freedom Plant) - who's partly a Dragon.
She's practically my most wanted Indie (yeah, low chance, but still) and part of that is because her Cyclone move would differentiate her fromin very interesting ways. And partly because I really enjoyed Freedom Planet.
Freedom Planet is sorely underrated, and deserves more attention. Though, I've found that developing a moveset for Lilac is a bit tricky, thanks to the more simplistic list of actions in her home game. There's Cyclone, Dragon Boost, Rising Slash... And then the fourth one is left empty. Though, she apparently gets an energy projectile power up in the sequel, so I suppose we could use that.
..Man, Freedom Planet 2 can't come fast enough...
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The way I see it, a character getting a Mii costume rules out that specific character, as opposed to ruling out their entire series/company. It would be odd if every single Zelda character was ruled out because the Ancient Armour from Breath of the Wild became a Mii costume, for example.
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It may not deconfirm them but it casts them as pretty unlikely. Still waiting on a series to not all arrive simultaneously, apart from Mega Man's 4 preexisting costumes. Which still arrived in two allotments, not piecemeal.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
imagine thinking a series that hasn't had a game in 15 years should take precedent over one of nintendo's biggest successes of the modern era just because one is older
SharkLord
Smash Hero
I suppose I should explain the Mii thing, since there's a fair bit of division surrounding it.
It's less that a Mii would directly kill a series by existing, and more that it implies they weren't planned in the first place. All the Miis from the same series as a DLC fighter have been released alongside the fighter. All the Persona Miis came with Joker, all the Minecraft Miis came with Steve, all the Dragon Quest Miis with Hero, etc.
Of course, the fighters don't need the Miis. For example, Byleth didn't come with any Three Houses Miis, and Banjo didn't have any Banjo and Kazooie Miis. However, it should also be noted that Three Houses and B-K didn't get any Miis period. If we had, say, Mumbo Jumbo released with Terry, or Ninjara with Byleth, it would be a different story, because it shows that DLC Miis and fighters can be released separately. But they haven't; They always release alongside the corresponding series/game packs.
"But what about Rex? He didn't come with Pyra!" That may be true, but Rex's Mii was available Day One, long before we had confirmation of FP2, and most likely before FP2 was even close to finalization. The other XC2 Mii, Nia, was in the base game directly. If they had come with an FP2 character, Miis would mean next to nothing, but they didn't. They were available since Ultimate's release, and weren't taken into consideration.
Bottom line, any Miis and fighters in the pass who share a series have been timed together. If the Mii is released with someone unrelated, it implies that there isn't a fighter from that series to time the Miis around.
It's less that a Mii would directly kill a series by existing, and more that it implies they weren't planned in the first place. All the Miis from the same series as a DLC fighter have been released alongside the fighter. All the Persona Miis came with Joker, all the Minecraft Miis came with Steve, all the Dragon Quest Miis with Hero, etc.
Of course, the fighters don't need the Miis. For example, Byleth didn't come with any Three Houses Miis, and Banjo didn't have any Banjo and Kazooie Miis. However, it should also be noted that Three Houses and B-K didn't get any Miis period. If we had, say, Mumbo Jumbo released with Terry, or Ninjara with Byleth, it would be a different story, because it shows that DLC Miis and fighters can be released separately. But they haven't; They always release alongside the corresponding series/game packs.
"But what about Rex? He didn't come with Pyra!" That may be true, but Rex's Mii was available Day One, long before we had confirmation of FP2, and most likely before FP2 was even close to finalization. The other XC2 Mii, Nia, was in the base game directly. If they had come with an FP2 character, Miis would mean next to nothing, but they didn't. They were available since Ultimate's release, and weren't taken into consideration.
Bottom line, any Miis and fighters in the pass who share a series have been timed together. If the Mii is released with someone unrelated, it implies that there isn't a fighter from that series to time the Miis around.
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Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
[/QUOTE]
Sakurai did say on his latest column we'll have to wait a little longer do yes.
UltimateCyborgOverlord
Smash Champion
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On the topic of 4 more Echo Fighters... my choices: Metal Sonic (Sonic echo), Dry Bowser (Bowser Echo), Hilda (Zelda echo), and Gooigi (Luigi Echo)
I know I replied to this already with Amy Rose (still my number 1 choice for these background colors)
But like.... I got another idea.
Birdo!
An Unexpected Character. It would come out of nowhere
But also... a vehicle for the return of the Red Shell Mii Hat!
Which is quite fitting, since the Red Shell is the shell present in SMB2
I know I replied to this already with Amy Rose (still my number 1 choice for these background colors)
But like.... I got another idea.
Birdo!
An Unexpected Character. It would come out of nowhere
But also... a vehicle for the return of the Red Shell Mii Hat!
Which is quite fitting, since the Red Shell is the shell present in SMB2
Technomage
Smash Champion
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My four echo picks are:
Krystal as a Fox echo
Vampire Wario as a Wario echo
Glass Joe as a Little Mac echo
Demise as a Ganondorf echo
UltimateCyborgOverlord
Smash Champion
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I very nearly picked that blonde kid from Super Punch-Out for a Mac echo, though I don't believe they ever gave him a name?
Technomage
Smash Champion
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I heard that dude is also Little Mac.
Nah but it's those I can think of as well. Her Blink Dash maybe?
Kinda think that she could benefit from normals are a bit different from
's. It doesn't sound like Dragon Boost would multi-hit as readily as Spin Dash / Spin Charge does (unless we're talking about the Boost used at FP1's ending, you know, when she ****ing blows up the bad guy with multiple Boosts in a row), Rising Slash sounds like a combo finisher / OoS move, and while Homing Attack eventually snaps to the (nearest) target Cyclone does not need to do so as Lilac can lean back with it. If anything, her having different U-Air (Sonic does an axe kick, decent if historically inconsistent juggling tool), F-Tilt (the Horse kick, used as a keepaway / tech chase) and different Smashes might be a good start.Also:
X-Files theme plays.
cashregister9
Smash Hero
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Xbox themed joycons Let's Gooooo
ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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Mmm, I don't think I would really like that.
I think the key thing missing here is that... in his Mother 1 appearance, he's in that septic tank. And him not being in it really messes with the appeal of the character to me, because where the tank could have black fluid that muddles up our view of him and keeps that air of mystery... if he's outside it, not only is it not really accurate, but... like, when he's in the tank, that incredibly-skinny body brings to mind some kind of living vein or nerve or synapse, or something like that. But outside of it, he just looks... scrawny. Well, maybe you don't need the tank to pull off the look, but he definitely has to have a certain stillness to his animation - doing everything with his mind and basically nothing with his body. I'm never gonna take it seriously if he tries to slap someone with that noodly tail.
Technomage
Smash Champion
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Say, how would Giygas work as a Porky Minch echo (or Porky as a Giygas echo)? They both live in tanks, and I don't think messing with their skeletons are using a brand new one would be as much work as doing the same for other characters.
Maybe both their tanks could even be attached to a spider mech that has both of their abilities?
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Wigglerman
Smash Ace
The more I see people wanting Blaziken as a Cap. Falcon echo the more I question that. Falcon's move set would work 'as well' for Blaziken as it does Ganondorf IMO.
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UltimateCyborgOverlord
Smash Champion
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Honestly, you ask me to have a Captain Falcon echo, I'd have one of the other F-ZERO characters. Blood Falcon and Black Shadow being the obvious picks, but also maybe someone less talked about, like Phoenix
Wigglerman
Smash Ace
I mean, Falcon has SOME moves you could use but 'reskin' but in general not so much. Like Falcon Punch/Kick could be repurposed to some degree. But his idle/run animations and a good chunk of his other attack animations just wouldn't look right with how Blaziken is depicted as a fighter.
I'd agree 'Semi-Clone' status. Or a full on 'glorified' echo like Ken (Who obviously shares some core moves with Ryu but has a slew of his own unique attacks as well. So Blaziken could borrow from Falcon what could work but over half it's kit would ideally be unique)
I'd agree 'Semi-Clone' status. Or a full on 'glorified' echo like Ken (Who obviously shares some core moves with Ryu but has a slew of his own unique attacks as well. So Blaziken could borrow from Falcon what could work but over half it's kit would ideally be unique)
ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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...That wouldn't work at all.
First off, Giygas' tank is spherical with two things jutting out of the sides. It doesn't even have legs. I have to assume that it's levitating, either through those things on the sides or through Giygas's psychic abilities.
Porky's got options for his tanks, including just not being in one, but you can see that none of them are the same shape as Giygas's. M2's comes close, but it's still got legs instead of flying. The best way to make this work would be to use that one, then make Giygas' tank with nothing attached to the leg animation stuff, and then pull a Dark Samus with the animation. And I have no idea how doable any of that even is.
Or you could put them on a spider mech with both the tanks' abilities, I guess, but at that point I may as well bring up problem #2:
I don't think Giygas' tank has any abilities. The only ability I find it likely to possess is the ability to keep Giygas alive while he uses PSI to make your own lamp kill you. I would expect a Giygas moveset to focus near-entirely on Giygas' terrifyingly powerful psychic abilities. That's kind of why he's a threat.
So even if you come up with an original tank design just to have one echo the other, you're still stuck because Giygas having no PSI, or even some PSI in a mostly Porky-derived moveset, would greatly misrepresent the character; and Porky having PSI would greatly misrepresent him.
Pillow
Smash Lord
Hey but it'd be the continuation of the trend of only C. Falcon getting clones from different series.
SpadeOfTheRedScarves
Smash Rookie
Sorry if I sound like an absolute ass here, but what is with people just seemingly shutting off their brains when it comes to discussing Echos? Many Echos that people want make no sense, like Eggman being a Bowser Jr. Echo or the Echo you just described, I just don't get it, it's bugged me since base game speculation and it still bugs me. The only Echos that actually make sense are Octolings, Proto Man and Metal Sonic (Shadow being an Echo wouldn't do him justice as a character before you ask).
...Anyway, how about that CP10 color thing? Reimu maybe?
While I agree for the most part, I'll play Devil's Advocate and point out that as much as Ganondorf could do with a different moveset... ... Him being a much harder-hitting Falcon strangely enough fits the theme of fear: Once Ganondorf gets a hit in (okay, if, but still) the opponent's going to think "**** I took 20 %, better not be grabbe-> **** got hit by his N-Air -> Oh no he hit me offstage again, wait **** I'm at 65 % already? -> **** oh hell I don't wanna be-AAAAH I GOT DORIYAH'D! Damnit I'm dead!".
Which is what any proposed moveset rework should, IMO, replicate. The feeling of fear.
FTR, I'm of the opinion that Ganondorf could keep at least a couple of his moves and be fine. F-Air, D-Air and the Smashes are the primary ones - it's primarily thinking that the Special moves could use a second look if not some changes.
"Show me your moves!"
"I have most of your moves!"
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cashregister9
Smash Hero
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The one that really bothers me is people saying that Rex should be a clone of Pyra/Mythra.
Wigglerman
Smash Ace
This isn't some stance I take only on Blaziken. I have the same feelings for any Echo that doesn't make sense for the suggested character. While Eggman as a BJ clone is SLIGHTLY more workable since Eggman rides, traditionally, in a similar vehicle (in concept, his open topped floaty vehicle from the OG series) and could do some similar things I'd much rather someone like Eggman who has a wide swath of options to choose from for his kit to be regulated to BJ's kit.
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ahemtoday
Smash Ace
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I still maintain that I have no clue what people see in Shadow that can't also be seen in Metal Sonic. Heck, Metal Sonic barely ever spins when he jumps. He spends basically every boss fight with him - which outnumber his playable appearances, especially in prominent games - flying around and doing charge tackles, not doing the sorts of spin jumps you get from Sonic. At least Shadow controlled like Sonic in his debut and in most games thereafter.
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Pillow
Smash Lord
I mean, you could argue that any of the echoes is not doing full justice to the character. Dark Samus doesn't have her phazon stuff, Daisy doesn't have anything from the sports games, and don't get me started on Richter. Shadow is the most logical choice for a Sonic echo because he's popular and can possibly work as an echo, even if his own character is better represented as a unique character.
I agree that there's a limit to the amount of plausible echo fighters we could have, but the list is larger than 3 characters.
UltimateCyborgOverlord
Smash Champion
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When it comes to people arguing against Metal Sonic as a Sonic echo, just play em this clip, it speaks for itself.
You might know everything I'm going to do...
...But that's not going to help you since I know everything you're going to do!
www.youtube.com
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Strange, isn't it?When it comes to people arguing against Metal Sonic as a Sonic echo, just play em this clip, it speaks for itself.
You might know everything I'm going to do...
...But that's not going to help you since I know everything you're going to do!
cothero
Smash Lord
Didn't Sakurai said that was no echo fighters in fighters pass?
At 30:51
At 30:51
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cashregister9
Smash Hero
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Yeah, but Hypotheticals are fun and we're bored.
Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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Echoes are fair game for Individual DLC though I’d think
Pillow
Smash Lord
I believe it was mentioned yes. Echo fighters, if they come at all, would be a separate (cheaper) dlc or as free content tied to another dlc character in the pass. Doesn't hurt to speculate about them anyway.
cothero
Smash Lord
Honestly, i wish they could have added more echos in the base game.
MrMcNuts
Smash Ace
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I don't see Reimu happening at all when indies who are actually iconic like Shovel Knight, Sans and Cuphead couldn't even make the cut yet
SharkLord
Smash Hero
I'd argue that Touhou is iconic, but I will admit that it's really weird about it.
I think the main reason why it's such a divisive topic is because most "traditional" series are mainly driven by their games and judged accordingly, whereas Touhou's pretty much driven by the fans, with ZUN and his official works being the fuel. Touhou's status just doesn't feel like a game series at times, if that makes sense. It's judged by fanworks and osmosis, not raw sales. It's also one of the few notable series that really work like this, and so everyone gets a different impression by looking at it.
I've talked about this earlier before, and I'll bring that one quote back up because I think I described it pretty well back then.
There's also quite a few achievements to keep in mind, not the least of which being A: Showing up alongside the cast of Kirby, Monster Hunter, and Ace Attorney in a Don-Chan game (Which is also on the Switch, mind you), and B: A crossover with Hello Kitty, the one of the most profitable brands out there, second only to Pokemon. Even if you don't classify Touhou as iconic, you still gotta admit that's pretty impressive for some niche bullet hell shooter made by only one guy.
There's probably a bit more than just those two, but it'll take time to look up everything. I can compile a list of anyone's interested is hearing me ramble, though.
MrMcNuts
Smash Ace
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That's nice and all but if it was truly iconic it would still have some competent sales even on official releases. The fact that she's still an enormous who in smash speculation outside of this thread and the fact that the ones I listed have more fame and still didn't make it gives me doubts. Nothing against the touhou fans but alot of them seem to make it bigger than it really was while downplayin other people's most wanteds that are 10 times more iconic
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