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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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N3ON

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If you guys are going to drag on someone for not finding it worthwhile to discuss a character, you could at least add something once they do so as to not prove that person right.
Alright, fine. I suppose I'm the one fearing risks all along.
  • GS's music situation currently is similar to that of base game FFVII: Only having two tracks that were the ones from previous Smashes, plenty of signature songs like Isaac's battle theme and Venus Lighthouse missing.
  • AT seems to be shoddily made (the moves all use different hand models even though they look exactly the same) and don't showcase how Psynergy isn't just summoning giant hands. This could be so Garet can take over as the AT since he's not alt material the same way Felix is.
  • Lowkey nature of later reveals: Even if E3 has to have something bigger, they obviously don't think the final character has to be.
  • The thing that was strange about FF is it only had two songs as a series with a playable character. I agree that GS has a wealth of music, including notable ones like Isaac and Saturos' themes. But it's also not that strange that a series without playable representation or a stage has relatively minimal music.
  • I mean, Isaac's AT has never showcased how psynergy is more than waving a giant hand around. I think if they really didn't care they wouldn't have expanded what the AT could do when they brought it back. Unfortunately if they didn't get to reuse hand assets for Isaac I don't think he would've been as fleshed out as he was, frankly. I just don't think ATs are that high a priority that asset reuse, when possible, is avoided.
  • I agree the last reveal will probably be lower-key, but I think that would only be helpful if there was more of a reason to expect Isaac. Like if there were a new GS game or something.

Sorry my points weren't positive but at least I'm adding to the topic. On the plus side I hear people say this is it for Isaac, bar a new GS, and while that may or may not be true, I don't expect Isaac's popularity to remain where it is now. People are judging the popularity of ATs based on the demand that arose after they were seen to be deconfirmed, but many of them will regain popularity once the cycle resets. And Isaac seems to have worked his way into the rarified niche where the popularity is self-sufficient regardless of having active appearances, like K. Rool and Geno and such.

Alright, time for a hypothetical:

HYWR if this was the newcomer lineup for Ultimate?
Base
  • :ultinkling:
  • :ultsimon:
  • :ultrichter: (Echo)
  • :ultdaisy: (Echo)
  • :ultalph: (Echo)
  • Crash Bandicoot
  • :ultridley:
  • Shadow (Echo)
  • :ultdarksamus: (Echo)
  • :ultkrool:
  • :ultisabelle:
  • :ultken: (Echo)
  • Solgaleo
  • Ashley
Fighters Pass Vol. 1
  • Sakura Shinguji
  • :ulthero:
  • :ultbanjokazooie:
  • :ultpyra:
  • :ult_terry:
Fighters Pass Vol. 2
  • :ultminmin
  • Arthur (Ghosts 'n Goblins)
  • :ultsephiroth:
  • Edelgard
  • Bandana Dee
  • Dr. Eggman
I think I would prefer this roster for who was removed versus who was added.

Though Crash is there, which is nice.
 

3BitSaurus

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WELL. Took long enough, but I finally calculated some of Fighter 10's potential background colors! Of course, keep in mind the standard "this is math" yaddi yadda... (but I'm sure you've heard that plenty of times lol.) Anyways, here's what I got for my minimally extended colors!

View attachment 312090
So... a pink and/or magenta/redish color?

Depending on the shades, I cold see a number of characters fitting this - we'd have to remember that the tone might be lighter or darker than this. So I guess Dante, Reimu, or Kiryu. Maybe ceetain specific characters from Tales or LoL as well.

As someone said before, I do think it also fits Octoling kinda nicely, but I find it hard to see them being our E3 reveal. To say nothing of someone like Sakura.

And now for something completely different: I had another Smash dream, this time with CP10 being another Hero-like situation with Contra's Bill Rizer and Lance Bean... who for some reason shared the slot with Ikari Warriors' Ralf Jones and Clark Still. In the CSS they even went by a singular name like "Commando" or something.
 

Guynamednelson

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Sorry my points weren't positive but at least I'm adding to the topic.
Well yeah, I at least appreciate you doing this. I wasn't expecting people to immediately go "yes, you're right, we are fools for thinking crash ever had a chance and that cinderace was the only viable first party".
I mean, Isaac's AT has never showcased how psynergy is more than waving a giant hand around. I think if they really didn't care they wouldn't have expanded what the AT could do when they brought it back. Unfortunately if they didn't get to reuse hand assets for Isaac I don't think he would've been as fleshed out as he was, frankly. I just don't think ATs are that high a priority that asset reuse, when possible, is avoided.
Mainly my argument on this was that if you're so worried about hard work being removed from the game, you shouldn't be.
but many of them will regain popularity once the cycle resets
Unfortunately that popularity is regained when it's too late. It's no wonder ATs are a permanent resting place for the majority of those characters. Isaac's dependent on theories involving the FP2 characters actually being locked in EARLIER than November 2019.
 

7NATOR

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Personally, in regards to Isaac

He's definitely popular within the Hardcore Smash community, but I'll be honest and say that I doubt they go for him as a DLC Character

DLC and Base roster are 2 different avenues in regards to the choices being made. With the base roster, the Devs can afford to get more risky with the character choices since they also come with the Full game. The DLC on the other hand, will sell mainly on the character merits and such

I find Isaac to be a kind of a risky character to go for, only because his franchise is really dormant. You notice that at least with 1st party, they tend to add in characters from Games or franchises that have shown to have an audience with actual Data and such

Fire Emblem keeps getting DLC Characters because the franchise has been successul
ARMS and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 got DLC Characters because those games were shown to be successful on the Switch

Nintendo doesn't have that type of data in regards to Golden Sun, since Golden Sun has been dormat for like a decade now. So by that extension I don't see Isaac as the easiest character to settle on. His series did have some great sales in the past, but as of now, it's an unknown
 

SharkLord

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Alright, fine. I suppose I'm the one fearing risks all along.
  • GS's music situation currently is similar to that of base game FFVII: Only having two tracks that were the ones from previous Smashes, plenty of signature songs like Isaac's battle theme and Venus Lighthouse missing.
  • AT seems to be shoddily made (the moves all use different hand models even though they look exactly the same) and don't showcase how Psynergy isn't just summoning giant hands. This could be so Garet can take over as the AT since he's not alt material the same way Felix is.
  • Lowkey nature of later reveals: Even if E3 has to have something bigger, they obviously don't think the final character has to be.
Pitching in on this:
  • While Golden Sun does lack many songs, it's not that unusual for just an AT. It would be more eye-raising if Isaac was a fighter, but he's not, so it just seems like any other situation
  • To be fair, there's only so much an AT can really do. I think it was just adding on to Isaac's Brawl AT, which was basically just the most well-known Psynergy, Move. The other hand moves add on to that while keeping a consistent theme.
  • I mean, Isaac could be a big finish if you look at him through the lens of a Banjo-esque fan-favorite. With the increasingly diminishing possibility of a Golden Sun 4/remake, his support is his main draw, and would more than likely be the reason he'd get added. As mentioned before, it's just like Banjo; Not very relevant nowadays, but his popularity is enough to get a big reaction among the dedicated Smash playerbase.
 

SKX31

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...by talking about him?

I’ve been talking about Crash since 2014 for smash for instance, even when he was not in vogue. I am the og Sephiroth supporter on here. Tons of people talk about characters against the grain of the times and sell them. I doubt Adol would be received as well if SharkLord did not write such a compelling case for him. Rie has done a lot of stuff to help Reimu’s case as well. By talking about Isaac and explaining why he’s likely...people will listen to your case. And if they don’t and he gets in, you get a lot of schadenfreude.
****, I've not done a proper Dota 2 write up when I perhaps should've. I know Eldrake's been the primary guy talking about that game, but damn it, I have a ****ing famous-within-Dota-2 Tagalog meme line in my sig. Here we go:

Since Dota (2) has its origins as a WC3 map / mod, it grew out of the WC3 Custom Map ecosystem. Its early days (2002-2006) were extremely chaotic before Dota All-Stars was developed, but already by 2006 it was the most popular custom map, and a lot of other custom maps took cues from Dota All-Stars - thus it became the definitive WC3 Custom map.

Several games arose during the 2000s - early 2010s seeking to solidify the formula. Some like LoL and SMITE would be here to stay. Others like HoN and Infinite Crisis would eventually fall apart. Blizzard was very interested in acquiring the Dota IP, but lost the rights to Valve after Valve offered Dota's main developer - IceFrog - more beneficial terms. This had significant effects on Blizzard down the line - not only through Heroes of the Storm, but also via the controversial clause in WC3 ReForged where Blizzard claimed the rights to new Custom Maps developed in ReForged.

Still, not only did Dota give rise to an entire genre - which its younger sibling LoL would later name "MOBA" - but it and its more famous sibling also helped the rise of several VoIP programs. Discord being a particularily noticeable example - which itself has impacted the Smash community because now a lot of Smash organizations and people interested in maining specific characters rely on Discord. Likewise, Dota 2's infamous rivalry with LoL helped Twitch become what it is today, which has indirectly impacted Smash itself.

If you ever wonder why Fortnite sported a $30 million prize pool for its world championship (2019), the reason is A) Dota 2's world championship - the International - initially sported $1,6 million in 2011, B) Riot one-upped Valve with $2 million in 2012, C) Valve decided to one-up Riot with a Battle Pass-esque Compendium introduced in 2013 (the third International) that functioned kinda like Kickstarter with skins and take back top spot with $2.8 million (and rising every year since). Riot's since used that model too, D) Years later - 2019 - Epic gave Fortnite its $30 million so they could claim Biggest E-Sports prize pool... E) only to see Valve crowdfund their way to $35 million.

Sure, Dota 2 does not have LoL's sheer popularity (due to it being way more complex than LoL, Valve failing somewhat to make it understandable to newcomers and Valve relying on Steam for its marketing) but it has retained a very large playerbase for years - in fact, it and CS GO have been the most played Steam games since 2012-ish. It's immensely impactful in several "non-traditional" countries. Russia, the Phillipines and Peru are particular hotbeds for the game, and Dota (alongside CS GO) are key reasons why Steam became very popular in Russia. Not Half Life, not TF 2, not Portal. Those two.

Dota 2's gotten its own map creator nowadays, which helped spawn another genre - the Auto Chess (which naturally both Valve and Riot have made games in). It feels a bit weird to say that the standalone Auto Chess game itself made its way over to the Switch sooner than Dota did, but it speaks to how far the tree and apples have spread in this case.

Dota 2's also been used in pioneering AI research akin to chess and Go, with OpenAI's team of machine-learned neural networks showcased in 2019. The AI team played two games against the reigning world champions, and managed to win one of them. I should note that said reigning champs repeated their successes in 2019's International, Partly because the champion team is one of the goofiest teams out there.

While Dota's completely and utterly obscure in Japan (which is one of the biggest knocks against it) Japanese corps like Square-Enix and Capcom have shown interest in promoting its upcoming Steam releases through bundles released in Dota 2 (Final Fantasy Type 0 and Okami HD respectively). This is something Nintendo's completely uninterested in so far - my bet is that Steam would have to release on the Switch or future Nintendo consoles. And that's what I suspect is a primary reason for Valve's and Nintendo's lack of interaction: Steam and Nintendo have practically functioned as separate ecosystems.

But if the two start interacting more seriously, I wouldn't count out Dota, since it has a wide ranging impact on the industry itself.

As for Dota's characters, they vary wiildly - Dota has ca 120 characters, in the same ballpark as LoL's 150 - and all characters are balanced around the idea of a team game with some extremely disruptive spells, abilities and what not. There's a reason I've talked about "4 sec AoE stuns" a lot (and I haven't mentioned some of the jankier **** like Global Silence).

While there quite a few characters who are popular enough to be "frontrunners" going into detail here would take a bit more time, so I'll let Eldrake do that. I've leaned towards the game's Lina (who's a living Slayers reference, yes. It would help overcome obscurity in Japan. Another reason is that she'd be relatively simple to implement) and the resident shape-shifting Water Elemental / nuke-level burst annoyance Morphling.

And honestly, I wouldn't mind an AT from this game if Gordon or Heavy appears in a future base game - while I'd obviously prefer a playable character, I'll take what I can get really.

Shout outs to Evil Trapezium for all the Cortez posting too.
Barely anyone else here would know Cortez even exists if not for the frequent posts.
I'm one of the very few that do know - having played 2 andf Future Perfect myself - so seeing him resurface was quite reassuring honestly. It helps that TimeSplitters does have a lot of potential weapons (and not just realistic ones - a lot of sci-fi ones too).
 
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N3ON

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Mainly my argument on this was that if you're so worried about hard work being removed from the game, you shouldn't be.
I think that even if they didn't reuse assets, people are too fixated on some reduplication of efforts in upgrading ATs. A character is going to take the same effort to create whether they were upgraded or completely new to the game. It's not like less effort would be spent bringing in someone totally new.

And yeah I guess it would make the AT redundant... but it's an AT. They're not the most resource-intensive aspect to create in the game, and there are still 58 others. Even if that AT gets switched off when the character is in play... that's little difference than playing on a stage that automatically disables some ATs.

If ATs are ineligible for promotion (which at this point is widely assumed but not necessarily fact), I think the basis for the restriction is completely ideological rather than technical to any degree. The technical hurdles are easily surmounted.

Unfortunately that popularity is regained when it's too late. It's no wonder ATs are a permanent resting place for the majority of those characters. Isaac's dependent on theories involving the FP2 characters actually being locked in EARLIER than November 2019.
I mean yeah it'll be too late for Ultimate, but popularity persisting is the thing that gets most of the fanbase favourites in at all. It wasn't Ridley being popular on the ballot that got him in. Sakurai already knew Ridley was popular, he addressed it earlier. It was Ridley being very popular for like a decade and still doing well on the ballot and Sakurai going "FINE".

For some of these characters it's a marathon, not a sprint. If Isaac lost all popularity the first time he didn't make it we wouldn't have even got to the place where he seemed possible for Ultimate.
 

SNEKeater

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I always found kinda bizarre how the only Golden Sun music consists of.. a mashup of Felix's battle theme and the final boss theme, and the overworld track from Dark Dawn. Not because they're bad songs, but because I'd expect Isaac's battle theme to be among the very small GS representation.

And I'm saying it's kinda weird because I'm pretty sure it's the most iconic/popular battle theme the series has.

In any case, it's a shame the song isn't in Smash because it's still my fave track from Golden Sun. I love the melody.

 
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Guynamednelson

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To be fair, there's only so much an AT can really do
Yes, but their attempt to make him comparable to more complex ATs still makes him stick out as a simple one, not to mention his model is low-quality even for AT standards.
I mean, Isaac could be a big finish if you look at him through the lens of a Banjo-esque fan-favorite
I'm thinking more through the lens of "I have been spoiled by :ultsteve: :ultsephiroth: and cannot fathom any character smaller than them getting in unless it's a Gen 8 Pokemon"
 

SharkLord

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Seriously? Are we still talking about color theory? It's one of the most debunked theories ever.
The whole thing's just messing around with math and laughing about it. Partially just because, partially because we somehow got close to Pyra and Mythra's background somehow. It's not something we're really taking seriously.
 

DarthEnderX

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Alright, time for a hypothetical:

HYWR if this was the newcomer lineup for Ultimate?
Base: So...more Echoes, Solgaleo instead of Incineroar? I'd rather have Decidueye, but those Echoes are good.

DLC1: No Plant, no Byleth? Sakura is a literal who to me and that's still a huge upgrade.

DLC2: Arthur instead of Steve?!

 
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SharkLord

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Yes, but their attempt to make him comparable to more complex ATs still makes him stick out as a simple one, not to mention his model is low-quality even for AT standards.

I'm thinking more through the lens of "I have been spoiled by :ultsteve: :ultsephiroth: and cannot fathom any character smaller than them getting in unless it's a Gen 8 Pokemon"
I don't think ATs are really the highest priority compared to the fighters or stages. They're basically just items but a bit higher, something to get in the way of your opponent and give you an extra boost. Granted, some newer ones like Zero and Alucard are a bit more dynamic, but I'd chalk that up to changing priorities for new ATs and Sakurai not wanting or caring to redo older ones that much. There's also the fact that he skipped Smash 4, so perhaps they just needed more time to remodel everything and it was easier to use his simple Brawl incarnation as a base.

I mean, we did get a smaller character after them; Pyra. And besides, it's the representative of the biggest game every and the archetypal JRPG villain. There isn't much higher we can go anyways, so some smaller or mid-tier characters are perfectly plausible.
 

Pillow

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Unfortunately that popularity is regained when it's too late. It's no wonder ATs are a permanent resting place for the majority of those characters. Isaac's dependent on theories involving the FP2 characters actually being locked in EARLIER than November 2019.
I don’t think the level of renkindled popularity has much to do with Isaac’s chances. The series is very dormant with not much pointing to a revival. If GS makes a big comeback like Crash has done recently and becomes a Nintendo mainstay then his chances will be very good for the next game.
 

Guynamednelson

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then his chances will be very good for the next game.
**** the "There's always next game" argument when Sakurai literally said IT MIGHT BE TEN YEARS AWAY. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS.

And yes, I do know the series is dormant, but Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't fetishize relevancy the same way the speculation community currently does, since the community fetishized it to the point where it took a certain Mini-Direct in March 2020 to believe ARMS had a chance.
so some smaller or mid-tier characters are perfectly plausible.
Of course they are, but the community doesn't want to believe that and wants to think the remaining characters HAVE to be Crash and MC.
 
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osby

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Yes, but their attempt to make him comparable to more complex ATs still makes him stick out as a simple one, not to mention his model is low-quality even for AT standards.

I'm thinking more through the lens of "I have been spoiled by :ultsteve: :ultsephiroth: and cannot fathom any character smaller than them getting in unless it's a Gen 8 Pokemon"
I find it a little funny how you're the only person in this thread who talks about Gen 8 Pokemon the most.

We talk about smaller characters all the time, you just don't want to accept it.
 

Guynamednelson

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We talk about smaller characters all the time, you just don't want to accept it.
I would accept it if smaller first-parties that aren't Ayumi could be talked about as well without the "they're too small" argument. It's either all the niche characters, or none of them, take your pick.
 

Pillow

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**** the "There's always next game" argument when Sakurai literally said IT MIGHT BE TEN YEARS AWAY. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS.

And yes, I do know the series is dormant, but Nintendo/Sakurai doesn't fetishize relevancy the same way the speculation community currently does, since the community fetishized it to the point where it took a certain Mini-Direct in March 2020 to believe ARMS had a chance.

Of course they are, but the community doesn't want to believe that and wants to think the remaining characters HAVE to be Crash and MC.
“There’s always next game” isn’t an argument, it’s a consolation.

I have never understood the notion of caring what other people perceive as likely or unlikely. If you truly believe that Isaac has a shot still then that’s great, but there are very valid reasons why other people don’t share your belief. If the issue is there’s not enough discussion, then that’s just false. All you need to do to garner a discussion is literally mention x character’s name here.
 
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Guynamednelson

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I have never understood the notion of caring what other people perceive as likely or unlikely.
Because I feel like I'm wrong for believing characters that aren't Crash or MC-tier hype without being from a third party have a shot. It's all just jealousy and insecurity.
 

7NATOR

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Because I feel like I'm wrong for believing characters that aren't Crash or MC-tier hype without being from a third party have a shot. It's all just jealousy and insecurity.
In cases like these, sometimes it's okay to be seen as wrong, or the enemy

I've been seen as an enemy for my Shadow posting. you just got to stick to your guns and such. If you think characters like Isaac can get in, then stand behind it, and have the game itself validate you. If you aren't taken seriously now, you could be taken seriously when Isaac gets in.
 

RGFS

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Seriously? Are we still talking about color theory? It's one of the most debunked theories ever.
Fighter Pass 2 literally has 3 characters with a version of green in their background. Two of the greens are teal back to back so the green also has a bit of blue in it too. We've barely seen any real color variety this Pass weirdly. Color theory is pretty much done.

**** the "There's always next game" argument when Sakurai literally said IT MIGHT BE TEN YEARS AWAY. PLEASE REMEMBER THIS.

Of course they are, but the community doesn't want to believe that and wants to think the remaining characters HAVE to be Crash and MC.
Nah, I personally want the remaining two to be whoever and a GTA character, lol.

Also, you gotta chill a bit. Smash is just a fun party game and we're having a discussion on what DLC it's gonna get. It ain't a big deal. Be happy and grateful Issac got a cool assist and spirits. I wish GTA had anything at all. I wouldn't say anything if my favorite series got all the content GS got. So many series I and many others love have literally nothing in Smash despite their notoriety. It is what it is.

Edit: forgot to add the word "have" somehow and just noticed.
 
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DarthEnderX

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I don't really see Reimu being a solo E3 reveal.
I don't see any indie character being a unique character, and if one was, I don't think Reimu would be the first.

...by talking about him?

I’ve been talking about Crash since 2014 for smash for instance, even when he was not in vogue. I am the og Sephiroth supporter on here. Tons of people talk about characters against the grain of the times and sell them. I doubt Adol would be received as well if SharkLord did not write such a compelling case for him. Rie has done a lot of stuff to help Reimu’s case as well. By talking about Isaac and explaining why he’s likely...people will listen to your case. And if they don’t and he gets in, you get a lot of schadenfreude.
Have you guys heard of KUNIO?!
 

Guynamednelson

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Be happy and grateful Issac got a cool assist and spirits
I don't wanna be when Ridley fans weren't grateful they got a boss, K. Rool fans weren't just grateful he still got a trophy and a Mii costume in the most modern-focused Smash game ever, that being 4, and Chrom fans weren't just grateful he still "got his chance" in Robin's FS. "Being grateful" clearly isn't the way when they got their fighters.

Ironically while I say this I would be fine simply for having the option to hear some of GTA's original radio songs in Smash, fighter or not.
 

Merengue

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Ideal Fighter Pass for me

FP1
1.Joker
2.Hero
3.Banjo and Kazooie
4.Terry
5.KOS-MOS(if only the mod which was taken down by Nintendo actually meant something)

FP2
1.Min Min
2.Steve
3.Sephiroth
4.Pyra/Mythra
5.Reimu
6.Porky Minch as final character
 

BlondeLombax

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Also, you gotta chill a bit. Smash is just a fun party game and we're having a discussion on what DLC it's gonna get. It ain't a big deal. Be happy and grateful Issac got a cool assist and spirits. I wish GTA had anything at all. I wouldn't say anything if my favorite series got all the content GS got. So many series I and many others love literally nothing in Smash despite their notoriety. It is what it is.
Well put. My most wanted franchise doesn't have all that much of a chance to begin with, and everyone we've gotten is a huge blast to play, so I'm content with whatever comes next.

Also, I totally thought your PFP was Nogla's GTAV model because of the green shirt. I'm sorry.
 

DarthEnderX

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I don't wanna be when Ridley fans weren't grateful they got a boss, K. Rool fans weren't just grateful he still got a trophy and a Mii costume in the most modern-focused Smash game ever
Yeah, well, not for nothing, but Ridley and K Rool are a lot more important than Isaac.

The ol' "Be a **** until they finally give you something" method won't work with just ANY character.

People could scream about Mike Jones forever and they'll never get anything.
 
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SharkLord

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Of course they are, but the community doesn't want to believe that and wants to think the remaining characters HAVE to be Crash and MC.
You're projecting that idea onto the community again. It can feel like it at times, but this thread isn't an echo chamber of Master Chief and Crash Bandicoot. We've discussed Japan-centric characters like Reimu and Sakura, surprise first-parties like Ayumi and King Boo, other big Western games like League of Legends, heck, we even tried talking about Isaac again.

The problem is that you've got this idea of the thread being solely Master Chief and Crash, and you keep fighting back again something that isn't there. I'd wager you've brought up Crash more than his actual supporters lately. If you want to discuss Isaac, go ahead, but it's going to be hard to get others involved when you keep dragging it back to the alleged Crash/MC loop.
 

Rie Sonomura

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RieSonomura
Switch FC
SW-4976-7649-4666
Ideal Fighter Pass for me

FP1
1.Joker
2.Hero
3.Banjo and Kazooie
4.Terry
5.KOS-MOS(if only the mod which was taken down by Nintendo actually meant something)

FP2
1.Min Min
2.Steve
3.Sephiroth
4.Pyra/Mythra
5.Reimu
6.Porky Minch as final character
Pretty much me, I’d take KOS-MOS over Byleth in a heartbeat. Only thing is I’d personally swap out Porky for either Octoling (1st party) or Ahri (3rd party)
 

N3ON

Gone Exploring
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
21,444
Location
Vancouver
I always found kinda bizarre how the only Golden Sun music consists of.. a mashup of Felix's battle theme and the final boss theme, and the overworld track from Dark Dawn. Not because they're bad songs, but because I'd expect Isaac's battle theme to be among the very small GS representation.

And I'm saying it's kinda weird because I'm pretty sure it's the most iconic/popular battle theme the series has.

In any case, it's a shame the song isn't in Smash because it's still my fave track from Golden Sun. I love the melody.

It is strange. I would imagine it's because one song is a remix, so they let Sakuraba pick what he wanted to do. And the other is from Smash 4, when Dark Dawn was newest, so they just ripped a track from there.

I don't wanna be when Ridley fans weren't grateful they got a boss, K. Rool fans weren't just grateful he still got a trophy and a Mii costume in the most modern-focused Smash game ever, that being 4, and Chrom fans weren't just grateful he still "got his chance" in Robin's FS. "Being grateful" clearly isn't the way when they got their fighters.

Ironically while I say this I would be fine simply for having the option to hear some of GTA's original radio songs in Smash, fighter or not.
I'm grateful he's even in, when last time he was nothing, despite being popular. I'm grateful the popularity amounted to acknowledgement, and a reinstatement. Being grateful doesn't preclude still pushing for more. It's not mutually exclusive.

Isaac got the role he did because of us. It's acknowledging us. GS got the most content out of any non-playable first-party series iirc. It's not ideal, but I'm appreciative they did anything. That doesn't mean I wouldn't still aim for more. Being completely unappreciative just makes you look petulant.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Legend
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
13,140
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
If you want to discuss Isaac, go ahead
I would like to, but I feel like there's going to be too much **** like "dead series" "too niche", "please just be grateful for what you have", "there's always when you're 35", etc.
 

Pillow

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
1,268
Location
Los Angeles
I would like to, but I feel like there's going to be too much **** like "dead series" "too niche", "please just be grateful for what you have", "there's always when you're 35", etc.
GS is a dead series though. Discussion of literally any character here comes with arguments against their chances. We can talk about Isaac endlessly if you keep bringing him up, but it’ll just never be what you want to hear.
 

SharkLord

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
7,688
Location
Pangaea, 250 MYA
I would like to, but I feel like there's going to be too much **** like "dead series" "too niche", "please just be grateful for what you have", "there's always when you're 35", etc.
And at this point, I feel you've constructed a strawman that feeds into your fears. Like half your posts are just complaining about how we can't talk about any risky characters and must worship Crash, instead of actually trying to contribute to any discussions over riskier characters. If you want to talk about risker characters, you have to keep trying. The boards move fast and everyone has something on their mind, so the first couple times or ten, your posts are gonna get lost in the conveyor belt of posts, so you can't just look at it and go "Oh no, I can't talk about riskier characters. It's no use trying." Find some fun little tidbits, find things going for them, capitalize on ideal moments, and again, keep trying. Pessimism won't get you anywhere.
 
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