DK Patch 1.10 Changes

[Brickbox]

Guys lets make sure we keep the complaints about cargo up throw on the down low.

If people start complaining about it just come up with valid excuses so it doesn't get nerfed.
Lol it is awesome now, we got one of the best combo throws in the game name now.

 

[Steelballray]

I hoped the percentage for the kill after the U-toss wasnt that strict.. but I guess a buff is a buff and having the percentage window for it wider would be kinda unfair and less satisfying or something, also the risk for a quicky quick nerf would be much higher. You guys waited a lot, and you totally deserve the buffs. Congrats <3

 

[Man Li Gi]

I know how much we love the Dong, but stop posting videos and what not. Once the casuals catch wind of it, it's possible that DK will become no more once more.

 

[Brickbox]

Seriously, if the you love the kong keep it on the down low.

Also, it would be pretty cool if we had a thread listing what is a true combo and what is not, now that the changes have added lots of combo potential.
Also Cargo down throw to jab works at 0?
Is this inescapable, I feel like its guaranteed on most characters if done frame perfect, this means that we can get big damage if rng allows us to do cargo downthrow->jab-> dtilt trip-> anything.

 

[dahuterschuter]

What do we call the new DK HOOHAH?

 

[Superbat]

DKwill on his stream is calling it the ding dong

 

[Brickbox]

Yeah, Ding Dong is for sure gonna stick

 

[Steelballray]

Yeah, Ding Dong is for sure gonna stick

The best smash moment of 2015: The Ding Dong

 

[itsaxelol]

can we stop with the terrible dong jokes. hes the king of the jungle for christ sake

nice buffs. finally getting some love

 

[Shammonx]

Nah, he still gets destroyed by most characters with spacing tools. He's higher in the mid tier now, but I can't say he's high tier.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

yeah id say B tier i dont think he'll be nerffed like they havent nerfed even high tiers that much besides diddy who was pretty busted and DK is butt tier in japan

 

[Slowchamp]

still wish they would change his down-b and side-b. i would love a down-b buff.

 

[123outerme]

As far as I can tell, on non-fastfallers, cargo Utoss->Uair works from about 0 to 50%, give or take. Given the chance, you could probably kill at like 10% on Delfino with one grab.

 

[Axel311]

Happy for you DK mains, and as Dedede main I'm super jealous. DK needed these buffs, and needs more (or the top tiers need nerfs). Dedede hasn't been buffed since release

Because of these buffs I'm going to put some serious work into my DK. He's gotten a lot better.

 

[Luigi player]

still wish they would change his down-b and side-b. i would love a down-b buff.

DownB with less lag like in Brawl would be VERY welcomed... it's kinda unsafe now. Same with his jabs who don't even connect correctly at lower % against some characters. DK still has many flaws and shortcomings (still have so many things I'd like for DK to change (ftilt bigger hitbox and far less lag on a good landed upB (the ending/landing pose has 30 frames of lag....) would be a dream)), but let's hype the current buffs for now.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I've been camping for the past 5 days and haven't touched a Wii u to test the changes...so question, on the lowered invincibility on his rolls, that's a nerf right? Or can he also act faster out of the roll?

 

[Big O]

I've been camping for the past 5 days and haven't touched a Wii u to test the changes...so question, on the lowered invincibility on his rolls, that's a nerf right? Or can he also act faster out of the roll?

It's a nerf, but everyone's spot dodge and rolls got the same invincibility nerf.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Glad they made the change to cargo upthrow, I knew they didn't mean to indirectly nerf it last time when they buffed its damage. Fsmash buff is welcome, and if one knows how to consistently do a small movement forward before the fsmash comes out It makes the range even longer. The intangibility to it also welcome, definitely remember times it cancelled. Does anyone know how dks new up smash is different in range from what it was in brawl?

 

[G-Guy]

while we call Cargo Up Toss to Uair the Ding Dong, can we call the Cargo up to charged Giant Punch the Expansion Pack?

 

[Slowchamp]

while we call Cargo Up Toss to Uair the Ding Dong, can we call the Cargo up to charged Giant Punch the Expansion Pack?

I'm gravitating more towards "the feature length"

how big is the new cargo up-throw+up-air kill window? i know rage, character, and stage play a role, but it seems to be around 70% without rage on omega stages. an in-depth guide for this would be pretty nice, if anybody wants to put in that work. i havent tested the giant punch with cargo yet, does it actually work reliably? and can it kill?

 

[DomBadZZZ]

ACT to punch isnt as reliable as up air. I dont recommend using it. Also the upsmash hits on our sides now but only tall characters. Fsmash buff is awesome killed someone in tourney today with it in the spot it used to wiff.

 

[Katakiri]

I'd be disappointed to see Cargo up-throw to charged Giant Punch not called the Banana Slamma.

 

[Host Change]

Cargo up-throw to charged giant punch may not work on too many characters but just wait and watch for the airdodge :D Then people get really mad

 

[DaRkJaWs]

ACT to punch isnt as reliable as up air. I dont recommend using it. Also the upsmash hits on our sides now but only tall characters. Fsmash buff is awesome killed someone in tourney today with it in the spot it used to wiff.

Actually u smash hits all but the shortest characters now (pikachu, Kirby, g&w, etc...basically anyone you can't hit with sh back air). Definitely the best buff out of all of them.

 

[Slowchamp]

Actually u smash hits all but the shortest characters now (pikachu, Kirby, g&w, etc...basically anyone you can't hit with sh back air). Definitely the best buff out of all of them.

they still have to be REALLY close, the majority of the arm animation still lacks a hit box.

 

[Span_DK]

What's up guys - speaking of u smashes...
Cargo u-throw -> u-smash
is a quick 0% - 25% in an early grab, leaving space for potential air-dodge read follow ups.

But, the following still seems to be the best use of the new throw range:
Cargo u-throw -> footstool -> falling dair -> dtilt
See article from SQNGQKU with video links showing this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/3fk05g/need_help_verifying_if_this_is_a_legitimate/

In the videos, the string is followed up with jabs...
but I think finishing with a charged f-smash is better and safer.
Cargo u-throw -> footstool -> falling dair -> dtilt -> (force-stand) f-smash

 

[Brickbox]

Hmm I'll have to mess with that, I don't that the footstool is guaranteed, I think they can try to jump out and you will get footstooled? (Not entirely sure so don't take that as fact)
It is for sure a good mix up though and super damaging.

I will do some testing this afternoon.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

yeah seems to me that its definitely not guaranteed, i'll need to try it out tonight to see. yesterday i've been trying to find mixups with dk's new upsmash, if anyone has ideas I'd like to hear them, there must be some strings that can be incorporated with it, I have yet to find one that really stands out atm though.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

We should make a comprehensive list of all the throw combos DK has. I feel this would go a long way into helping the DK community. Then we can name them all, ding dong, banana crammer, expansion pack, etc.

 

[Brickbox]

I was thinking that as well, If we get a good list of what works it will bring down the amount of miss-information going around concerning his throw combos.

Also footstool to dair to dtilt doesn't seem to set up a forced get up, I feel like it is a solid mix up that still does good damage but it is high risk high reward.
High risk high rewards are not that good when we have no risk guaranteed reward.

 

[Imber]

Yo if cargo uthrow uair kills sheik starting around 68-70% without rage how early does it kill WITH rage? This might sound crazy but could DK actually turn this matchups like this around by sandbagging? Before, DK's rage didn't matter that much because none of his strong moves are really fast enough to catch sheik or other safe characters but now all he really needs is a grab. I don't know if DK will be high tier or anything like that but I think this does really help his overall viability.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

it kills about 10% earlier with every stage of rage (50-100-150) so it can kill her around 48% when were at 150% i think its DI dependant though but i'm not sure

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

I wouldn't get our hopes up, DK is good and if he stays the way he is he will stay upper mid tier, but no way a heavy weight will be a top tier character, we are combo food for the likes of the top tiers. Our offense is getting better but once they start up their combos we can't really get out...

but I'm ok with this, all I wanted was for DK to be able to command respect against characters who think they can sleep on him. Good high tier players will still beat us but damn if they have to work a lot harder for it.

I feel that when we start having mid tier tournaments that DK will be at the top of that game.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

Well we can get out of some combos with up-b but i know what you mean. I'd say hes the best heavy easily and mid tier, useful in a good amount of match ups but probably cant win a tourney with just DK.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

This seems to be the best game so far to be a heavy weight wouldn't you guys agree? We are bigger and better than ever. But ya I feel like we kinda out class most of the heavys. DDD seems to be close though from what i hear right? Or are the DDD's full of hot air? ah!.... Nobudy?... Aw... lol

 

[DaRkJaWs]

There's a lot id like to say but I'll say for now that playing with dk alone is viable in tournament, even against the best players in the world. Not only do you have to play optimally, but you have to have the mentality that matches that style. If you just go out and play, and don't have any particular goal in mind for your opponent, or positive mindset about the match, then you will eventually lose. But it's not about being positive per say, it's about knowing what you are doing at all times. I'll share with you all my secrets. With dk You want them to stay away from you but at the same time you don't want them far either. My style revolves around pivot attacks and grabs, jabs, just laying back and charging my punch, a lot of standing or walking and not running, and approaching or feigning an approach with back kicks and occasionally throwing out some headbutts, and using up b as a covers-all-approaches option. for example, I like throwing out some preventive jabs not only to initially keep them back but to bait them into coming in to punish you while you respond with pivot attacks or grabs. One good bait is simply walking close to them and throwing out whiffed jabs or trying once or twice to get jab 1 to grab, only to do a pivot grab or fsmash upon that failing. Eventually they'll see this playstyle and simply decide dk is too dangerous to try to approach and just hang back a little more. The MOMENT you see this happen, or actually, the moment you know this is going to happen you go full tilt approach with sh bair and other moves you can do depending on positioning (but sometimes in fact also jumping backward while back kicking) and once (if) you find yourself in a disadvantageous position because of dks laggy moves start again spamming either jabs or pivot grabs or fsmash depending again on positioning and the speed of the character you're facing. Rinse and repeat. What's the mindset of this kind of playstyle? It's a "rofl, what the **** are you doing on the stage with me, donkey kong? You're approaching me? Really? Do what you want, it's all futile in the end, I'm going to **** you". It's important you have this mindset if one uses this approach and when one uses dk, and don't forget to stand still a lot especially after you did something, it's all about those baits, right into moves like headbutt or pivot fsmash or pivot grab. And FYI, earthquake should only be used sparingly or sometimes out of the blue use it to try to break the opponents shield.

Of course none of that matters if dk doesn't have the tools to win...and Dk does in fact have those tools, many of which I know for a fact you guys don't know about or use, and if you maximize that with the right mindset, then dk is totally viable. I reached my best performance ever a week ago or so and right now am trying to regain it after a 5 day camping trip, before smashcon, to show you guys and the world what dk can do. But the rust is real, I really hope I'm in fighting shape once it rolls around. Because if so, ya'll about to see some tech you've never seen before.

 

[Imber]

In my tests DI didn't ever change whether uair killed or not but it can make it harder to follow up with Uair after cargo uthrow at kill percents. Essentially their 3 options are DI left, right, or no DI, which creates a sort of 50/50 since no DI is ballsy af. If you guess wrong you will miss but if you guess right they will die and it's really that simple. Again this really only matters at kill percents so around 60-80% without rage depending on the character. Before that DI doesn't matter as much.

 

[DomBadZZZ]

There's a lot id like to say but I'll say for now that playing with dk alone is viable in tournament, even against the best players in the world. Not only do you have to play optimally, but you have to have the mentality that matches that style. If you just go out and play, and don't have any particular goal in mind for your opponent, or positive mindset about the match, then you will eventually lose. But it's not about being positive per say, it's about knowing what you are doing at all times. I'll share with you all my secrets. With dk You want them to stay away from you but at the same time you don't want them far either. My style revolves around pivot attacks and grabs, jabs, just laying back and charging my punch, a lot of standing or walking and not running, and approaching or feigning an approach with back kicks and occasionally throwing out some headbutts, and using up b as a covers-all-approaches option. for example, I like throwing out some preventive jabs not only to initially keep them back but to bait them into coming in to punish you while you respond with pivot attacks or grabs. One good bait is simply walking close to them and throwing out whiffed jabs or trying once or twice to get jab 1 to grab, only to do a pivot grab or fsmash upon that failing. Eventually they'll see this playstyle and simply decide dk is too dangerous to try to approach and just hang back a little more. The MOMENT you see this happen, or actually, the moment you know this is going to happen you go full tilt approach with sh bair and other moves you can do depending on positioning (but sometimes in fact also jumping backward while back kicking) and once (if) you find yourself in a disadvantageous position because of dks laggy moves start again spamming either jabs or pivot grabs or fsmash depending again on positioning and the speed of the character you're facing. Rinse and repeat. What's the mindset of this kind of playstyle? It's a "rofl, what the **** are you doing on the stage with me, donkey kong? You're approaching me? Really? Do what you want, it's all futile in the end, I'm going to **** you". It's important you have this mindset if one uses this approach and when one uses dk, and don't forget to stand still a lot especially after you did something, it's all about those baits, right into moves like headbutt or pivot fsmash or pivot grab. And FYI, earthquake should only be used sparingly or sometimes out of the blue use it to try to break the opponents shield.

Of course none of that matters if dk doesn't have the tools to win...and Dk does in fact have those tools, many of which I know for a fact you guys don't know about or use, and if you maximize that with the right mindset, then dk is totally viable. I reached my best performance ever a week ago or so and right now am trying to regain it after a 5 day camping trip, before smashcon, to show you guys and the world what dk can do. But the rust is real, I really hope I'm in fighting shape once it rolls around. Because if so, ya'll about to see some tech you've never seen before.

Do you play online? I'm interested in playing you. Goodluck at smashcon I'll keep an eye out for ya.

 

[Ninj4pikachu]

There's a lot id like to say but I'll say for now that playing with dk alone is viable in tournament, even against the best players in the world. Not only do you have to play optimally, but you have to have the mentality that matches that style. If you just go out and play, and don't have any particular goal in mind for your opponent, or positive mindset about the match, then you will eventually lose. But it's not about being positive per say, it's about knowing what you are doing at all times. I'll share with you all my secrets. With dk You want them to stay away from you but at the same time you don't want them far either. My style revolves around pivot attacks and grabs, jabs, just laying back and charging my punch, a lot of standing or walking and not running, and approaching or feigning an approach with back kicks and occasionally throwing out some headbutts, and using up b as a covers-all-approaches option. for example, I like throwing out some preventive jabs not only to initially keep them back but to bait them into coming in to punish you while you respond with pivot attacks or grabs. One good bait is simply walking close to them and throwing out whiffed jabs or trying once or twice to get jab 1 to grab, only to do a pivot grab or fsmash upon that failing. Eventually they'll see this playstyle and simply decide dk is too dangerous to try to approach and just hang back a little more. The MOMENT you see this happen, or actually, the moment you know this is going to happen you go full tilt approach with sh bair and other moves you can do depending on positioning (but sometimes in fact also jumping backward while back kicking) and once (if) you find yourself in a disadvantageous position because of dks laggy moves start again spamming either jabs or pivot grabs or fsmash depending again on positioning and the speed of the character you're facing. Rinse and repeat. What's the mindset of this kind of playstyle? It's a "rofl, what the **** are you doing on the stage with me, donkey kong? You're approaching me? Really? Do what you want, it's all futile in the end, I'm going to **** you". It's important you have this mindset if one uses this approach and when one uses dk, and don't forget to stand still a lot especially after you did something, it's all about those baits, right into moves like headbutt or pivot fsmash or pivot grab. And FYI, earthquake should only be used sparingly or sometimes out of the blue use it to try to break the opponents shield.

Of course none of that matters if dk doesn't have the tools to win...and Dk does in fact have those tools, many of which I know for a fact you guys don't know about or use, and if you maximize that with the right mindset, then dk is totally viable. I reached my best performance ever a week ago or so and right now am trying to regain it after a 5 day camping trip, before smashcon, to show you guys and the world what dk can do. But the rust is real, I really hope I'm in fighting shape once it rolls around. Because if so, ya'll about to see some tech you've never seen before.

Teach us more of your secrets senpie. I am eger to learn!... I usually use the DSpecial after a down tilt if it trips, it covers all the tech options and gets free damage.

 

[CriticalxMiss]

Great discussion guys, love hearing what everyone is coming up with! Glad DK got some buffs.
Now I know not everyone likes side B because of the lag involved, but something I have noticed is if you put them in the ground at high % you can dbl tap forward, running up smash into kills. You have to be quick, but I have done it a few times now, and only missed once were the person popped out of the ground. Note that the guy in the video was not very good lol, kill happens at 1:25

https://youtu.be/UrIpwokmR8w