• The new bonus episode of the Smash Brothers Documentary Metagame, Godslayer, is now available on Vimeo

  • Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits! Who Will Be The Final Fighter?

Handy Man

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
891
Location
SoCal
Sakurai did state that Dixie was planned for Brawl though, it wasn't just a code thing (although that's pretty heavy evidence too), he admitted it outright, which is pretty rare for scrapped characters (she's the only one in the Forbidden 7 that was talked about by Sakurai openly).
I hate to ask this, but do you have proof that Sakurai has talked about Dixie Kong before? I only found the forbidden seven information, and I haven’t found any articles on Source Gaming where Sakurai has talked about Dixie Kong in Smash.
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
8,227
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
I hate to ask this, but do you have proof that Sakurai has talked about Dixie Kong before? I only found the forbidden seven information, and I haven’t found any articles on Source Gaming where Sakurai has talked about Dixie Kong in Smash.
This is the source that SmashWiki provides.

(If you have Google Chrome it should automatically have a translate option).
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,684
The more I think about it, the more I pin the lack of strong consideration of Dixie and a lot of DKU elements on Nintendo more than Sakurai. I mean yeah, if he had a mega love of the series he might be more inclined to put certain things, but Smash's inconsistency with Donkey Kong related additions does fit with Nintendo's own hit-and-miss treatment of the franchise in the last 20 years. If they really wanted the brand pushed in a popular series like SSB, it would have been just as it could have been something highlighted in Mario Party if they wished.It's easy to ask why it took until the ballot for Sakurai to sense K Rool's popularity, but there were likely people at Nintendo who had even greater awareness of the character as well as the fandom for him, and the company's situation was that they were either uninterested or unable to push for him prior to 2015.

I know this seems like a fairly obvious conclusion, but it's something that's crystallized for me when thinking about how both DK and Metroid have struggled in terms of being showcased at times and how it arguably took until Ultimate for both to actually get some strong momentum in a major spotlight game.
 
Last edited:

Dinoman96

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 22, 2013
Messages
2,754
The more I think about it, the more I pin the lack of strong consideration of Dixie and a lot of DKU elements on Nintendo more than Sakurai. I mean yeah, if he had a mega love of the series he might be more inclined to put certain things, but Smash's inconsistency with Donkey Kong related additions does fit with Nintendo's own hit-and-miss treatment of the franchise in the last 20 years. If they really wanted the brand pushed in a popular series like SSB, it would have been just as it could have been something highlighted in Mario Party if they wished.It's easy to ask why it took until the ballot for Sakurai to sense K Rool's popularity, but there were likely people at Nintendo who had even greater awareness of the character as well as the fandom for him, and the company's situation was that they were either uninterested or unable to push for him prior to 2015.
This is pretty much it. I've said this a million times by now but it's just been nothing but bad circumstances for Dixie every Smash game.

Brawl: She actually WAS planned to be playable as a tag team partner with Diddy, but this got cut because of technical reasons.

Smash 4: Nintendo and Retro basically opted to make DKC Returns a full on reboot or cleanser of the DKC franchise, essentially starting over from scratch with the lone exceptions of Donkey and Diddy, with Cranky, Rambi and Squawks on the side. As Smash 4's first party roster was very much focused on what was new or rejuvenated in the Nintendo world back when it was locked down in early 2012 (with the sole exception of Duck Hunt, the surprise fighter), this was promptly a death sentence for any new DK character this game.

Ultimate: Well, they let the fanbase make their voices heard with the Smash Ballot and everyone voted for K. Rool. And with there only being a very small handful of non-echo characters, there wasn't room for two DK newcomers.
 
Last edited:

Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,931
This is why people can get frustrated with the Mario Party and Kart rosters. Instead of using them to revitalize an inactive character or test the waters for a character's popularity, we get Gray Xenon Gopher Dry Character Only In-Game for Power Star #3 in World 5. They have an insulting large catalog of characters and yet go with generic mooks or invent "new" characters. I cannot for the life of me understand how not only did a Mario power-up in Metal Mario get a personality but how he's very popular in Japan. Then give that aspect to a named character instead, not a palette swap.

I will not understand their reluctance in utilizing their characters more. Not just in using in main series games, but spin-offs. Look Nintendo, Pauline was on hiatus, then you bring her into the main line Mario game and the world didn't end. She is even more popular than before and in spin-ofs, much better than using her spot for Peach variant number 23. Do that with the other characters like Dixie, K Rool, Warioware, Geno, etc.
 
Last edited:

ChronoBound

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 20, 2006
Messages
8,994
Months ago I had promised to make an essay in regards to the Donkey Kong franchise. Unfortunately, what I am about to present is to not up to my own expectations or goals in terms of what I had in mind when I made this idea months ago. Regardless, my hope is that is helps bring about discussion on just what the Donkey Kong franchise is, and its unique history.

Donkey Kong as a franchise is perhaps Nintendo’s oldest. Donkey Kong the arcade title was the one game that put Nintendo on the map as a noted game developer. It was also the origin point for two of the most famous characters in gaming, Mario and Donkey Kong. It is important to note that Mario is the one that actually spun off from Donkey Kong. Donkey Kong as a series, the original arcade trilogy, constantly had a cycling set of protagonists (Mario in the first title, Donkey Kong Jr. in the second one, and Stanley in the third one). In terms of the original DK series (which ranged from 1981 to 1984, which includes not just the original arcade trilogy, but a few spinoffs made by Nintendo themselves such as Donkey Kong Jr. Math, and the Game & Watch remakes and spinoffs which were Donkey Kong Circus and Donkey Kong Hockey), the only common character between all of them was Donkey Kong, and only in a single title (Donkey Kong Circus) was he ever the protagonist (though Donkey Kong could also be a playable character through the multiplayer option in the Game & Watch version of Donkey Kong 3 and as well the Game & Watch spinoff Donkey Kong Hockey).

Despite Donkey Kong being Nintendo’s biggest early hit, the only original Donkey Kong title ever made for the NES/Famicom was the spinoff title, Donkey Kong Jr. Math, which was released very early in the Famicom’s life (all the way back in the console’s launch year of 1983). Donkey Kong as a series went into hiatus after the release of the two Game & Watch spinoffs in 1984. There were plans for a new DK title for the NES entitled “Return of Donkey Kong” but very few details are known about it aside from enigmatic blurbs about it from two issues of Nintendo Power (with the only real detail being that you could play as or control Donkey Kong).

Donkey Kong would not return until 1994, basically a decade after the last DK titles had been released. Here, there would be two new titles for the Donkey Kong franchise, both with radically different ideas on what could be done with the series going into the 90’s. Donkey Kong on the Game Boy (referred to by fans as DK94) is basically a continuation of the original series from the 1980’s, most particularly picking up where the original game left off. It is a massive puzzle platformer adventure, with over 100 levels. I personally regard this title as one of the best titles not only for the Game Boy/GBC, but also one of the very best games in the DK franchise as a whole. It was a masterpiece, but not the game that got Donkey Kong back on the map as a franchise that that was at the forefront of gaming.

The other DK title to release in 1994, was none other than Donkey Kong Country (released in Japan as Super Donkey Kong). This title was historic for a myriad of reasons. For one, it was a title that turned many heads due to its graphics and soundtrack. It was launched at a time when the next generation of consoles (both Sega Saturn and the PlayStation 1 launched at the end of 1994 in Japan), and showed that the SNES still had some muscle left in it that could really be flexed.

Moreover, Donkey Kong Country did something even more important for Nintendo outside Japan, which was the “reclaiming of cool”. If Sonic was made to the be the “Mario killer”, then Donkey Kong Country was the “Sonic killer”. Donkey Kong Country might have been a big factor that made the Nintendo brand cool again. Even the intro for Donkey Kong Country was to nail home that this was not your 1980’s Donkey Kong (with the new DK knocking away a Cranky Kong who was playing the old DK theme on a gramophone).

This new DK series, Donkey Kong Country/Super Donkey Kong, took very little from the original DK series in the 1980s. Aside from DK being able to toss barrels, the only other idea taken from them is a cycling set of protagonists between each game (with DK himself being kidnapped in DKC2 and DKC3 much like he was in Donkey Kong Jr.).

However, even though this was essentially a new series utilizing an old brand, it still massively resonated with people during the mid 1990’s. Donkey Kong Country 1 was one of the Top 5 best selling games for the SNES despite launching pretty late into the console’s life, and both DKC2 and DKC3 were among the Top 10 best selling games for the SNES (DKC3 was either the 10th or 11th best selling SNES title).

DKC as a series though had an unique identity to it that I feel has yet to be replicated in later DK installments past DKC3. Donkey Kong 64, while it was highly successful, was basically a Banjo-Kazooie title with a Donkey Kong skin. After the Rare buyout by Microsoft, the DK series went through the 2000’s with a set of spinoffs and various experimental titles, with the only title actually being developed by Nintendo themselves being the 2004/2005 Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, which itself was also an experimental title (developed with the DK bongo peripheral in mind).

None of these titles had the level of acclaim or commercial success that the Rare developed titles in the 1990s did. In the 2000’s, Retro Studios, a Western studio much like Rare was, was given the DK franchise to develop. This produced two DK titles, Country Returns for the Wii in 2010 and Tropical Freeze for the Wii U in 2014. Country Returns sold very well and got high reviews, but it never reached the heights that the original DKC trilogy saw in terms of influence and cultural power. Tropical Freeze got even more accolades, but it was doomed due to being released on the poorly performing Wii U, and by the time the title was released on the Switch, the game was considered “old news”. Aside from these two titles (and their ports on the 3DS and Switch), nothing else was done with the DK brand during the 2010’s aside from the Mario vs. Donkey Kong subseries (which is basically more a Mario themed subseries than a DK one putting particular focus on the toy Mini-Marios).

However, while both of these titles tried to replicate the original DKC trilogy and were both very well made games, with many saying that Tropical Freeze is a contender for the best sidescrolling platformer ever made, I do not think they managed to capture what made DK able to become a cultural phenomenon again during the 1990’s. In many ways, they were to the DKC trilogy like DK94 was to the arcade games. A fantastic continuation of what was being made “before”, but not something that managed to light a fire in the souls of the market.

I think there are many here that believe that the inclusion of the Kremlings and K. Rool would be a sort of magic bullet in order to bring the Donkey Kong franchise back to its heights it had seen during the latter half of the 1990’s. I think though, what instead should be looked at is how Donkey Kong Country became such a big phenomenon to begin with.

It is important to remember, that the DKC games themselves borrowed very little from the original DK series. Moreover, I think it is important to note that the gap of time from the last major Rare developed DK title (DK64) and today is now more than double the amount of time between DKC and the last DK titles developed by Nintendo in the 1980’s.

Donkey Kong Country took the world by storm because it was two things. It was both a top tier game in terms of audio and visual presentation for the SNES, and in addition had a strong sense of style and coolness about it.

The case in point to this is none other than Diddy Kong and the trajectory this character has faced since Donkey Kong 64. Diddy Kong, since his inception, managed to become among the most popular characters associated with Nintendo, and was seen as “very cool”. These days, Diddy Kong is seen as nothing more than “a cartoon monkey with a baseball cap”. Its not from a lack of exposure, Diddy Kong is perhaps the only DK character aside from DK himself that still has many appearances in Mario spinoff titles.

Diddy Kong is perhaps a symbol for the state of the DK brand as a whole these days. It is merely seen as “Mario in a jungle”. Dixie Kong herself is now merely seen as “girl Diddy” instead of as much more her own character (though Dixie Kong’s problems began with her very long hiatus from 1997 to 2004).

This is controversial to say, but perhaps for Donkey Kong to again be the showstopper it once way, it will need to be to Donkey Kong Country like what Donkey Kong Country was to the original games in the 1980s. That is not saying that it has to jettison the cast to those games like DKC did. Jungle Beat is pretty much a case in point in regards to that. It had a very high graphical fidelity for its time and tried very hard to make DK “cool again”, but it was ignoring there was a very strong love for characters that had been created by Rare, and those were now just as strong a part to the brand as DK himself is.

One of the rumors going around about the new DK title is that it is being developed by younger developers over at Nintendo that have very fond memories of Donkey Kong Country. It would be fascinating to see just what these people come up. Donkey Kong Country was a Western take on a Japanese set of games, and breathed massive new life into a historic franchise.

It will be interesting to see how this new generation of Japanese developers who have nostalgia of Donkey Kong Country interpret just what made that title special to them. DKC was very rare (pun intended) in that it was a Western developed title that had massive success in the Japanese market (the only other title that comes to mind that sold as much as the DKC trilogy did in the Japanese market is Minecraft).

I think an important part for the DK brand to be revitalized is not just for a major DK title to be developed in-house by Nintendo, but for it have its own unique sense of self for today’s world much like Donkey Kong Country did back in 1994.

A game’s art direction can go a very long way in particular. See how Metroid Prime 1 is still seen as visually superior to Metroid Other M despite the latter having a higher polygon count for it and releasing on more powerful hardware. Or how Kirby’s Dream Land 3 and Yoshi’s Island are still remarked upon for their visuals in this day and age despite being over 20 years old.

In particular, I wonder if characters like Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, K. Rool, Funky Kong, and Cranky Kong will be reimagined in this possible new DK title. Rare’s Donkey Kong redesign was not only visually distinctive from the original arcade incarnation to the character, but also the redesign that Miyamoto had made for Donkey Kong 94 (with the only similarity between them being the DK emblem tie they both wear).

I have said years ago that Dixie Kong in particular might be perhaps Rare’s best creation. She is a character whom I believe never truly had their full potential realize. She in many ways is the female Mario, and had her momentum cut off by dropping off the face of the earth after 1997’s Donkey Kong Land 3 and not returning to a DK title until 2004’s Donkey Konga 2. I am not sure whether she will be a part of the this rumored new DK title as she has a very long running history of missing titles she arguably should have shown up in (Diddy Kong Racing, Donkey Kong 64, and Country Returns in particular). It would be interesting to imagine how she might be redesigned by the in-house team at Nintendo. Though on the flip side one can look at how Tiny Kong was redesigned and be dreading this (supposedly the call to redesign Tiny Kong into what she ended up becoming came from Nintendo). Thus a redesign for Dixie Kong could end up something very neat or something for a lack of a better phrase, “kind of disturbing”.

However, this is all assuming much of the cast would even end up getting redesigns to begin with. It could very well be the case that Nintendo sees that there does not have to be anything done with any of the DK characters. Donkey Kong’s only notable difference in Jungle Beat for example was with the way his fur was textured.

It might be the case that a Nintendo developed DK platformer is simply Country Returns but with K. Rool and Kremlings. We might only get DK, Diddy, Cranky, Rambi, K. Rool, and the Kremlings, with Dixie and Funky being omitted for Nintendo’s first in-house DK title since Jungle Beat. Though on the flip side, Dixie and Funky were made a part of the roster to Mario Kart Tour. It will overall be interesting to see what characters will be utilized for this rumored new DK title. My personal hope is that not only are all of the Kongs that were in Tropical Freeze will be brought back alongside K. Rool and the Kremlings, but that we get some classic animal buddies brought back as well, in particular Rattly and Squitter.

I think overall Donkey Kong needs a massive push and overhaul to become the phenomenon it once was. We are now closing in on eight years since the last fully new DK title was released (Tropical Freeze originally released on the Wii U in February 2014). 2022 looks packed with both Splatoon 3 and Breath of the Wild 2 set to release that year. My personal opinion is that the Switch’s successor will release anywhere from late 2023 to early 2025. The window for a new DK title being released for the Switch is thus narrowing.

It could very well be the case that this rumored title might end up being launched for the Switch’s successor instead. Donkey Kong since Donkey Kong Country 1, has been a series about being a technical showcase. Jungle Beat was one of the best looking platformers for the GameCube, and while DK64 technically did not need the Nintendo 64 Expansion Pak to run (it was basically utilized to correct a game crashing glitch quickly), it was the title where the Expansion Pak was packaged with.

It could very well be the case that we might not see this rumored DK title until 2023 at the soonest because it is being planned as a title for the Switch’s successor and is being utilized as a technical showcase for it. Although, it could also be the case that the rumored new DK title is simply Nintendo’s last in-house AAA title for the Switch. Overall, there are many different unknowns about this possible title, and it will mean much going forward for the Donkey Kong franchise.

Donkey Kong is not only one of Nintendo’s oldest franchises (with only the Game & Watch franchise, if you can count that as one, predating it), but also one of gaming’s as a whole. Donkey Kong is an unusual franchises in that it has had various waves were it was one of the biggest and notable series around in particular epochs. Its first being the first half of the 1980’s, and then again during the second half of the 1990’s. Donkey Kong has arguably been running on steam since DK64 (and even that title had a mixed legacy). Country Returns sold well on the Wii, but never made the splash that Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Country did. Tropical Freeze received tremendous accolades, but ended up selling worse than Country Returns did despite later being ported to the Switch.

Donkey Kong is a franchise with a tremendous legacy behind it. It might very well be the case that this rumored DK title might be to the Donkey Kong franchise like Country 1 was to the DK arcade titles. We shall see though. Regardless, Donkey Kong is more than just another platformer franchise. It is arguably the franchise that popularized the platformer genre. DK made the jump from being one of gaming’s most legendary antagonists to one of its most beloved protagonists when Country was released.

I do not think the rumored Nintendo developed DK title will be as a big a departure from Donkey Kong Country, as Donkey Kong Country was to the original arcade Donkey Kong (as I said before Donkey Kong 94 was the more obvious evolution to the original arcade line of titles). I think instead the changes might end up being more stylistic and in terms of presentation. Think more along the lines of how the designs for Sonic characters changed from the Genesis/Mega Drive titles to the Dreamcast titles.

Regardless of what happens, the Donkey Kong franchise now is close to where it was at during the second half of the 1980’s to the first half of the 1990’s, still being referenced in various cameos and even playable spinoff appearances (Donkey Kong made cameos in NES Tetris, F-1 Race, and NES Tournamnet Golf, and DK Jr. was part of Super Mario Kart’s roster and had a cameo in Super Mario All-Stars), but no new wholly new titles to speak of. Since 2014, outside of DK and Diddy, the only new game appearances for other DK character have been K. Rool in Ultimate and Dixie Kong and Funky Kong in Mario Kart Tour.

The Donkey Kong series is not in good shape. Contemporary feelings regarding Diddy Kong these days are pretty much a microcosm as to what the rest of the series is seen as these days, “monkeys and jungle”. There was even a recent Japanese poll in regards to Ultimate’s roster to which Diddy Kong ranked right at the bottom for character popularity. K. Rool had a big push to be in Smash, but hardly any of it has later gone into Dixie Kong, who was the main protagonist of two out of three titles for the DKC trilogy (this is important to bring up because K. Rool experienced a massive boost in requests after Diddy Kong was confirmed for Brawl).

2021 turned out to be another non-event year for the Donkey Kong brand. There are still rumors that a major DK title is in development, but when it ends up having its formal unveil, no one among us can say for sure. The lack of activity in this thread since Nintendo’s June 2021 presentation is probably due to the fact that many were hoping for the new DK title to give the topic some new material to finally talk about, as well as a possible way to which Dixie Kong could plausibly be a part of Pass 2.

Let us hope that the next DK title ends up bringing the franchise back to the heights it saw critically, commercially, and culturally during the 1980s and 1990’s. Donkey Kong was Nintendo’s original breadwinner, and while one direction the series evolved into was the Super Mario series, the big stubborn ape is just as important to that original legacy as the mustachioed overalls wearing hero was. Donkey Kong can easily be a platformer franchise and still be very distinctive from Mario (just as how the DKC series was compared to the Mario games).

Donkey Kong is unique in that it reinvented itself almost completely when it was brought back in the 1990’s. However, since Rare has left, Nintendo has floundered about what to do with the series, initially doing a series of experiments throughout the 2000’s, before finally deciding to retread old (or proven) ground by giving the series to Retro Studios, who ended up making two excellent platformers with the brand. These games though did not end being generation defining titles (though Tropical Freeze is often regarded by many as one of the best sidescrolling platformers ever, especially contemporary titles of its genre).

With the next DK title rumored to be developed in-house by Nintendo, there is the possibility for new life to be breathed into the franchise, and for this game to be to the DK brand like how Breath of the Wild was for Zelda or Awakening was for Fire Emblem, a bold new direction that revitalized the series and took the series sales to the highest that they ever saw. Donkey Kong really needs a title that breathes new life into the series in general.

The final character unveil for Ultimate is likely only weeks away (it could be anywhere from this coming week to the first week of December). I am not sure if support topics such as this one will end up being locked after the final character has been released, but regardless I am glad to have finally gotten this essay out.

As I said at the beginning of this post, this essay is not as ambitious as I had hoped, and I think that I repeated myself a few times (though I might have gotten my point across better as a result).

Overall, Donkey Kong is a very interesting franchise that is far more than “monkeys and jungle”. In Smash, both DK and Diddy sound like monkeys despite both having human voice actors in both the DK series and Mario spinoffs they appears in. Every single DK stage in Smash is also based off a jungle level aside from 75m (which is simply literally a level from the original Donkey Kong). Also, most of the remixes in Smash for the DK series are either of the original arcade theme or the Jungle Hijinx theme. Country 1 still looms large over the public mindset of DK, and that is a game that is over 25 years old. It would be the equivalent of nearly all of the public’s mindset regarding Zelda being A Link To The Past or Super Mario’s simply just Super Mario 64.

I do think regardless of what I end up personally feeling on it (I did not care for the new direction for Fire Emblem personally), that the next major DK could very well be a pivotal title for the series, and could be one that breathes new life and a new major following for it.

This now concludes my Donkey Kong series essay. I hope that those that have read it have gotten something out of it. My main hope for it is that it gave a lot of stuff to think about and discuss which this topic desperately needs in this twilight hour of Ultimate speculation. I do plan to get out a revised version of my Dixie Kong essay, which I wrote two years ago. I have a lot to edit out and a quite a bit more to say for that work.

I know much of what I said might be divisive, but I hope it generates discussion and many different ideas on just what the Donkey Kong series is. Thank you very much for your time and patience for reading this essay in its entirety.

By the way, for those who are curious are curious about my input as to whom the final fighter for Ultimate will be, I did put out a massive analysis a few days ago on just that topic:

I am not sure when I plan to get the revised Dixie Kong essay out, but there are some thing I want to say in it now that I did not two years ago. I look forward to sharing it with this thread, as the new material is meaningful to the Dixie Kong fanbase now and going forward.
 

ZeroJanitor

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
918
Slippi.gg
ZJ#732
NNID
ZeroJanitor
3DS FC
1161-0239-7545
Switch FC
SW-3025-9002-7252
https://www.reddit.com/r/donkeykong/comments/pmd4d3
Someone has apparently been modding Dixie Kong into DKC1! I can't seem to find any other information besides this secondhand Reddit post however (so frankly, I'm not even sure if it's real, but it's a good fake if not).
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
8,227
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated
This should start a trend where Dixie is modded into various games. Although, it will get weird when we get to Kong of Duty and Kongdom Hearts: Dream Drop Dixie.
For some reason, even mods for Smash seem to be incredibly rare. There still isn't even a mod for her in Ultimate nor a lot of Smash fan mod games.
 
Last edited:

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,684
https://www.reddit.com/r/donkeykong/comments/pmd4d3
Someone has apparently been modding Dixie Kong into DKC1! I can't seem to find any other information besides this secondhand Reddit post however (so frankly, I'm not even sure if it's real, but it's a good fake if not).
If there ever was a formal remake of the DKC trilogy with HD graphics and widescreen, playable Dixie in DKC1 and DK himself in 2/3 would be a great bonus.
 

BirthNote

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
2,898
Location
A warrior's grave...
NNID
GeneticDestiny
Well, my suggestions for a DK game that stands apart from the rest could benefit from these elements:

No Jungle Hijinx theme for its reveal trailer. Y'know how it's easy to write off a New Super Mario Bros reveal since they always use the same theme? Same applies here. Imagine every 3D Mario platformer using Ground Theme or every Metroid using Brinstar. Psychologically that tells us we're seeing the same thing but with a new coat of paint. Zelda gets away with that particular theme because they slip it in as a leitmotif to a very dramatic and energetic score. DK is renown for its music, so give the audience a taste of the kind of music that excited us, not makes us think it's more of the same.

Have impressive tech. This is a given, DKC 1-3, Jungle Beat, Returns and Tropical Freeze have impressive tech in them for their time, and in the case of Returns, they used their assets cleverly. Tropical Freeze began to really utilize their 3D environments and the next DK can benefit from pushing things further. Dynamic camera, fore/mid/background interactivity should be just the start, as they expand on Tropical Freeze.

No Jungles. The Jungle environment can't be in the game, and if it is we can't get it until late in the game. Just like Sonic games have too many Green Hill Zone knockoffs, it's important for DK to avoid that routine. DKC2, DKC3, and DKCTF don't start in a jungle. By the time you get to a jungle in DKC2, you're in the Lost World. Juicy Jungle is the 2nd to last island of Tropical Freeze. Jungles are overdone and expected for a game about apes. Surprise audiences by having something besides a jungle as the first few locales.

Make it grittier. This is tough. Gore, blood and guts should be off limits, but the tone and aesthetic should tell us that the world of DK is vibrant and lively....but also harsh. Personally I'd take Jungle Beat's stylish action with violence that matches Tom & Jerry cartoons. Action-Packed platforming with crazy setpieces, keeping Retro's heart pounding sequences but adding a layer of grime when appropriate. The main enemies should have a genuine malice to them no matter how goofy; some more than others of course, but you should be able to sense a malignant flair about them. K. Rool torturing DK in DKC2 was unsettling. The scene was "simple" but it spoke volumes. When you play as a Kong, you have to feel like some sort of badass depending on who you're playing as, so you'll need ferocious enemies. Kremlings, Jungle Beat's enemies and Snowmads are excellent examples. Most of the Tiki Take Tribe are not.

Do what 2D Mario doesn't. The best way to stand out is to do your own thing. DK does this in flying colors, but the new game needs to keep doing that. Keep the immersion, the visual storytelling and level cohesion of Retro's games and add that badass flair that a super strong gorilla can pull off. A game's tone will always show others its identity. Yoshi can be that lighthearted on the surface platformer. 2D Mario can be that well-designed by the numbers installment, and DK can be that adrenaline fueled game that's difficult and rewarding.

Continue to differentiate the Kongs. You wanna be that nimble powerhouse who cracks skulls, leaps gracefully, hits like a truck and makes soundwaves by clapping? DK's your guy. You wanna be that fast popgun toting monkey that zips by with his jetpack? Diddy says hi. You wanna be that 5 limbed chimp who can fly with her hair and hold multiple items/kongs/enemies? Play as Dixie. Wanna grab hard to reach ledges and inflate like a balloon? Lanky's right there. Differentiate and expand on what each Kong can do, but keep things streamlined as well. Whether you can choose between DK, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky, Funky, Lanky or whoever else, make them have distinct and unique gameplay elements.

That's all I got for now.
 

Ridley_Prime

Proteus Geoform
Premium
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
8,534
NNID
AlphaWarDragon87
3DS FC
0774-4845-6886
Switch FC
SW-7888-8563-5773
With the Tiki's, it would've helped if there were different kinds of them as bosses instead of just them hypnotizing random animals. It would've made up for Tiki Tong feeling like a less than inspired Andross esque boss at least, as the Tiki's otherwise still would've left more an impact in the end. The usual criticism was that they were generic or just disliked because they weren't the Kremlings, but if you fought different unique variants of them as bosses (besides Tiki Tong), they could've stood out more and thus perhaps been remembered better, even if we would've still liked the Snowmads more.

But yeah, solid post on how they should shake up the formula, for DKC and any series in general.
 

InASnowBoundLand

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,426

SeashoreWar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 19, 2018
Messages
293
The next two characters for Donkey Kong Racing are here!

From a series that takes inspiration from DK and Banjo, Lucky from Super Lucky's Tale!

And the star of the cancelled Sabreman Stampede, which was originally Donkey Kong Racing, Sabreman!



Two more characters to go!
 
Last edited:

True Blue Warrior

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Messages
9,369
Location
United Kingdom
NNID
TrueBlueSM
3DS FC
2036-7619-4276
Continue to differentiate the Kongs. You wanna be that nimble powerhouse who cracks skulls, leaps gracefully, hits like a truck and makes soundwaves by clapping? DK's your guy. You wanna be that fast popgun toting monkey that zips by with his jetpack? Diddy says hi. You wanna be that 5 limbed chimp who can fly with her hair and hold multiple items/kongs/enemies? Play as Dixie. Wanna grab hard to reach ledges and inflate like a balloon? Lanky's right there. Differentiate and expand on what each Kong can do, but keep things streamlined as well. Whether you can choose between DK, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky, Funky, Lanky or whoever else, make them have distinct and unique gameplay elements.

That's all I got for now.
Lanky seems to be the most liked Kong out of the three introduced in 64.
 

LiveStudioAudience

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2019
Messages
2,684
Lanky benefited from having actual identity. While Tiny and Chunk were essentially Dixie & Kiddy 2.0 (with DK himself already having the big strong powerhouse role to boot) Lanky Could lay claim to genuinely being differentiated from every other Kong with his look and move set. It’s why he still stands out even now.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
2,814
Location
Jinbe Land
It's surprising I haven't posted in this thread yet - while not even close to my most wanted, Dixie's a favourite of mine and the more DK stuff (in general) the better. I'd be happy with Dixie as a semi-clone or even something like Chrom where she's just Diddy with a different up-B. but unique would be preferable.
 
Last edited:

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

Wings of Fire
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
32,876
Location
Boil Hole
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Lanky benefited from having actual identity. While Tiny and Chunk were essentially Dixie & Kiddy 2.0 (with DX himself already having the big strong powerhouse role to boot) Lanky Could lay claim to genuinely being differentiated from every other Kong with his look and move set. It’s why he still stands out even now.
Though to be fair, Chunky was actually a lot more funny than Kiddy, so he still stood out a bit. More or less Lanky and Chunky are basically a split off Kiddy Kong, into two characters, while Tiny is a clear stand-in for Dixie otherwise. Lanky still stood out better than the other two, which helped.

Not ever using them again to make them more fun/interesting didn't help, combined with a game that got needlessly long and the extreme amount of required collection stuff(including more than an actual 100% help) didn't help either. It's a great game in its own right, but hoo boy... There's a reason many don't bother to do more than basically finishing it(and that's even ignoring how there's no checkpoints in the final fight for some godawful reason).
 

InASnowBoundLand

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
1,426
The next two characters for Donkey Kong Racing are here!

From a series that takes inspiration from DK and Banjo, Lucky from Super Lucky's Tale!

And the star of the cancelled Sabreman Stampede, which was originally Donkey Kong Racing, Sabreman!



Two more characters to go!
Hey, nice work! There is something nice seeing Sabreman added given what happened to the Gamecube Donkey Kong Racing. I also think he kind of fits. A human explorer guy.

I haven't played Super Lucky's Tale, but they also seem like a good choice. I think some people who worked on Donkey Kong Country Returns also worked on that game as well, right?

Let me post it tomorrow!
 

Mikegamer0608

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2012
Messages
1,379
Location
Somewhere in the Cosmos.
NNID
Mikegamer0608
I think the thing I like most about the music video is Funky's cameo, he has that look that both says "I'm too stoned to care" and "It'll be OK, DK's on it." - I also love how when DK confronts K. Rool he goes straight for the coconut rather than a punch.
I noticed Cranky was holding a smash invitation letter around 1:50 mark lol
 

Glubbfubb

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2021
Messages
895

BirthNote

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 9, 2009
Messages
2,898
Location
A warrior's grave...
NNID
GeneticDestiny

~ Valkyrie ~

~ Mightier than a 2020 ~
Premium
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
8,962
Location
Marvel Land ~ Eternally Slumbering
NNID
IndyGo98
3DS FC
2793-0906-0731
Switch FC
SW-7670-7999-3483

The point on possible winter-releases is sure intriguing.... imagine if a new DK-title had long gone gold to be prepared for it and the Direct opened with that.

Nevertheless I'd be pretty surprised if this Direct wouldn't have our very final Smash-reveal, but to be quite honest, I rather be seeing our long-awaited DK-title announced in some capacity. At the end, I can't see Dixie feeling right here unless she'd been a bonus character because how much meltdown there would be from everyone else that wanted their long-awaited 3rd Parties that hadn't been chipped off to this very point.

What do you guys think though?

 
Last edited:

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 19, 2020
Messages
970
Location
ZE BATH
So it all ends here.

I may be jumping the gun here, but i find foolish to entertain the idea that we aren't getting the final character revealed in this Direct. I do not think Dixie is the final fighter, nor do i think the final fighter will be interesting to my tastes. I could make a joke at how Nick All Star's Brawl's roster reveals may be more exciting than the last FP char, but after seeing some leaks of that game i can't even say that ironically, DLC confirmation for that game notwithstanding.

It's funny, i have been here for 6 years. For some of you here it's a goddamn eternity, for others it's rookie numbers. I remember being called Speedwagon, i remember the Roy Ryu Leak, i remember the Grinch Hoax, i remember the ESRB drama, i remember everything. I really don't want to make a wall of text, the energy i had back in Smash Speculation is lost. After getting my most wanted ones, most character reveals has been okay at best and a disappointment at worst for me. Smash Ultimate is my favorite Smash game by far, but i must admit whenever i enjoy it, i enjoy it alone. Being demonized for being a Simon main does that to you. Not that i give a crap about Competitive Smash beyond watching some highlight videos so it really doesn't matter that much, i am a loner so it's probably for the best.

I could write something emotional, and reflect on this journey but i can't. Im just happy this ride is finally ending. It may have not ended with a bang, but those highlights in the pre-release days were more than enough, Simon's reveal, K.Rool's hype, Ridley's redemption, and Banjo somehow making it in made me more than happy for newcomers. I have poured 800 hours into Ultimate, and while i have been playing (and replaying) many other games in the meantime, i still have no issue in putting Smash and playing for a few hours each weekend.

It's been a long ride, and I'm more than ready to get off.
 
Top Bottom