Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Dixie should have been the bonus character in the base roster instead of Piranha Plant, tbh. Piranha Plant was pretty forgettable even as a "joke" character, to the point where most forget its on the roster. Should have been Dixie, IMO.

Piranha Plant is the example of a concept-first, character second.

Sakurai really should stop putting "OMG THIS CHARACTER WILL BE SUPER UNEXPECTED" as a priority when choosing characters. Once the joke got old, there really wasn't anything special about him, he was just a generic enemy. At least Wii Fit Trainer and Mr. Game and Watch come from brand new universes, and R.O.B had historical value, PP is just "lmao how random".

 

[BirthNote]

I... genuinely forgot PP was in the game, and that's one of 2 DLC characters I actually have, the other being BK lol

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Granted, I know some that still play the plant (mostly as a secondary) and he has a fun creative moveset, but once you know the matchup, you just camp him and there's not too much he can do to compensate. Same can be said for characters I play though, so whatever.

And while PP seemingly opened the door to generic non-boss enemies, no one really expects them to join a Smash roster, with him being a one-time bonus thing. So yeah, the bonus spot definitely could've gone to Dixie or someone else instead.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Piranha Plant also suffers from being a fighter concept somewhat out of time. It popping up circa 64 or even Melee would have fit the more experimental nature of the early titles when it hadn't quite turned into being an outright showcase for Nintendo's roster. Coming in 2018 though, when there are still characters like Dixie, Bandana Dee, or Impa still missing from the roster, the wacky WTF nature of it just kind of falls flat, and doesn't really leave much impact overall, especially when Steve is arguably a more out there fighter yet feels like he has much more depth in his moveset.

Not to say that PP doesn't have value as a fighter, its just impossible for me not see it and wonder if various other first party characters might have been better fits for that kind of spot.

 

[cybersai]

I assume it was either another retro character like Rob, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt Dog or a wacky character like Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant, and that's why he went with the plant. Granted he could have gone with any other Mario enemy like a Koopa Troopa or a Boo, but that's besides the point.

There was no new retro character in Ultimate so that was a tradition broken and went to Piranha Plant.

 

[Justin Little]

I like Piranha Plant because it fulfills my dream of having Audrey 2 in Smash Bros.

So what's the exact date of DK's 40th next month? I want to write it down on my DK themed calendar and prepare for inevitable disappointment.

 

[Handy Man]

So what's the exact date of DK's 40th next month? I want to write it down on my DK themed calendar and prepare for inevitable disappointment.

July 9th will mark 40 years since the release of the arcade Donkey Kong game.

 

[Justin Little]

July 9th will mark 40 years since the release of the arcade Donkey Kong game.

Oh, that's earlier than I thought. Thanks!

While I don't mind waiting til next year for DK to release, I hope they reveal it much sooner this year.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

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We also plan to make goods. It will be double-sided printing. plans.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I assume it was either another retro character like Rob, Ice Climbers, Duck Hunt Dog or a wacky character like Wii Fit Trainer and Piranha Plant, and that's why he went with the plant. Granted he could have gone with any other Mario enemy like a Koopa Troopa or a Boo, but that's besides the point.

There was no new retro character in Ultimate so that was a tradition broken and went to Piranha Plant.

We don't know the tradition was broken, and that this is the cause of why we got the plant.
We just know we got PP, and didn't get a retro character.

Granted, I don't see how it matters, when Byleth was a character, in the same game where Chrom was a character.
I'd rather have kept PP (which I imagine may have come for a love of Petey), and lost the M4rth for Dixie as a mostly similar Diddy with retooled specials, an extra jump, and unique throws.

I like Piranha Plant because it fulfills my dream of having Audrey 2 in Smash Bros.

So what's the exact date of DK's 40th next month? I want to write it down on my DK themed calendar and prepare for inevitable disappointment.

And Suddenly Seymour, is INDEED standing beside me. Don't have to pretend.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I admit this is somewhat silly reasoning, but I'm recalling how back in Origami King, there was a notable shout out to two other series via the Papier-mâché masks:

Spoiler

At the time many just thought it was a cute nod to Mario's sister series, but with a brand new Metroid game now due for release, we just might see the other half of that cameo come to fruition fairly soon.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Haven't been posting here since before the E3 Direct, I didn't shave the highest expectations for a DK game honestly since I saw the presentation was 'just' 50 minutes. I don't know why, something my intuition caught on.

That being said, I was not disappointed. A new Metroid is coming, which makes two new Metroid games for the Switch. And of course Wario Ware and Advance Wars are back too. This not only gives me hope for Donkey Kong, but for Golden Sun too. There's more they're working on they said. I have a lot of faith in Nintendo at the moment to deliver quality. At the very least, Metroid Dread and the BotW sequel will keep me interested.

Dixie's chances haven't become any slimmer either since this all. I think she would make sense as a final fighter reveal, coupled with a reveal for the new DK game we're all waiting on. But it's probably not the case.

But am pretty sure that Smash Ultimate is gonna be the building block, or main engine for all coming Smash games in the future. Wether Sakurai is the director or not. I wouldn't mind this game being less of a third party crossover giant as Ultimate is however, I was never too big on that anyway. I also hold no bitter feelings towards Kazuya either. It anything I like the addition, cause I feel fighting game characters make for great additions in Smash.

Anyway, I see Dixie as a logical inclusion that will happen eventually, maybe not when most of us are as involved with Smash as we are now. But that's just how life goes. Maybe the best Donkey Kong game ever will release when am over 50 years old? We shouldn't be too bitter over these things, and enjoy whatever we have when we're still here. With everything in life, just be grateful you have it cause no moment is ever promised you know. I'll be 31 within a month and a half, and this retrospective look on things makes me really question why I was always so anxious and nervous about things having to go as I wanted, or what I feel like is best, and now having myself laugh as if I or anyone have any control about anything except how we react to it.

We're a positive and optimistic group of people here with a passion of the things we love. I do hope these qualities are also enjoyed in other aspects in all your lives than gaming alone.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Such a considerate child.

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You know, I kind of thought this guy was role playing as Kiddy Kong himself, but now that we find out he's rp as Kiddy Kong's dad..... the lore deepens.

 

[SeashoreWar]

Is this the new #WrinklyNeverDied movement?

What does Squawks shoot out of his mouth in #DKC2 and #DKC3? Seeds🌰 or Eggs🥚? #DKCVotes

— Dixie Kong for Smash (@DixieforSmash) June 18, 2021

So seeds it is then!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Haven't been posting here since before the E3 Direct, I didn't shave the highest expectations for a DK game honestly since I saw the presentation was 'just' 50 minutes. I don't know why, something my intuition caught on.

That being said, I was not disappointed. A new Metroid is coming, which makes two new Metroid games for the Switch. And of course Wario Ware and Advance Wars are back too. This not only gives me hope for Donkey Kong, but for Golden Sun too. There's more they're working on they said. I have a lot of faith in Nintendo at the moment to deliver quality. At the very least, Metroid Dread and the BotW sequel will keep me interested.

Dixie's chances haven't become any slimmer either since this all. I think she would make sense as a final fighter reveal, coupled with a reveal for the new DK game we're all waiting on. But it's probably not the case.

But am pretty sure that Smash Ultimate is gonna be the building block, or main engine for all coming Smash games in the future. Wether Sakurai is the director or not. I wouldn't mind this game being less of a third party crossover giant as Ultimate is however, I was never too big on that anyway. I also hold no bitter feelings towards Kazuya either. It anything I like the addition, cause I feel fighting game characters make for great additions in Smash.

Anyway, I see Dixie as a logical inclusion that will happen eventually, maybe not when most of us are as involved with Smash as we are now. But that's just how life goes. Maybe the best Donkey Kong game ever will release when am over 50 years old? We shouldn't be too bitter over these things, and enjoy whatever we have when we're still here. With everything in life, just be grateful you have it cause no moment is ever promised you know. I'll be 31 within a month and a half, and this retrospective look on things makes me really question why I was always so anxious and nervous about things having to go as I wanted, or what I feel like is best, and now having myself laugh as if I or anyone have any control about anything except how we react to it.

We're a positive and optimistic group of people here with a passion of the things we love. I do hope these qualities are also enjoyed in other aspects in all your lives than gaming alone.

Even before that concluding point, I have truly seen you evolve into a more peaceful poster on these boards. Congrats!

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even before that concluding point, I have truly seen you evolve into a more peaceful poster on these boards. Congrats!

I found inner peace , and acceptance of a bunch of events that had me react so negatively in the past. I do appreciate this being said however. Maturity is a beautiful thing once you get the hang of it.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I found inner peace , and acceptance of a bunch of events that had me react so negatively in the past. I do appreciate this being said however. Maturity is a beautiful thing once you get the hang of it.

As someone your age, I can acknowledge a similar journey (despite the bluntness of many of my posts).

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I'm so used to seeing people throw around the reboot idea or a future Smash just rebuilding from the ground-up (which to be fair was brought up before Ultimate too), that I've just gotten in the habit of expecting the worst possible scenarios just in case. Logically though, I agree that the future Smashes will more likely use Ultimate as the building blocks whether Sakurai is still directing or not, still reusing assets like the series always has and bringing back as many characters and things as possible. Ultimate's been the most successful Smash yet, so why not? Reboots only usually happen when a series is facing major decline, and even without a reboot, you can still redesign the legacy characters to some extent, like what was done with Link.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I'm so used to seeing people throw around the reboot idea or a future Smash just rebuilding from the ground-up (which to be fair was brought up before Ultimate too), that I've just gotten in the habit of expecting the worst possible scenarios just in case. Logically though, I agree that the future Smashes will more likely use Ultimate as the building blocks whether Sakurai is still directing or not, still reusing assets like the series always has and bringing back as many characters and things as possible. Ultimate's been the most successful Smash yet, so why not? Reboots only usually happen when a series is facing major decline, and even with a reboot, you can redesign some legacy characters to some extent, like what was done with Link.

Reboots often happen when a series is just at its pinnacle- and since the nature of this game was to make it bombarded with everything under the sun, the only two directions that seem viable (feel free to list a third)
A- Keeping the base, but remove a lot of the content, inherently making it inferior
B- Try something new- such as (but not limited to) more in depth fighters and an amazing story mode.

The first option ...sucks.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Like I said, I’ve had so much fulfillment from Ultimate, I wouldn’t be mad if it was my last Smash, and if the series does go in one of those hard reboot type directions I don’t agree with, then I’ll accept it and probably just skip it (particularly if it doesn’t have my main), but won’t take away from others still enjoying it. I got pretty much everything I wanted and waited for with Ultimate, and don’t have to support the next Smash or the one after if it doesn’t give me the same fulfillment, characters or otherwise. I mean if Melee can still be enjoyed and played for decades, so can Ultimate. I’ll be fine either way.

To clarify, I still think most if not all the major 1st parties that took real effort will remain in the next games for all intents and purposes (Ridley included who was a Smash staple before he became playable) as the most likely logical outcome, but preparing myself for any kind of scenario/direction going forward just in case. Again though, will be fine just playing Ultimate when I grow older if nothing else. Life is short.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Like I said, I’ve had so much fulfillment from Ultimate, I wouldn’t be mad if it was my last Smash, and if the series does go in one of those hard reboot type directions I don’t agree with, then I’ll accept it and probably just skip it (particularly if it doesn’t have my main), but won’t take away from others still enjoying it. I got pretty much everything I wanted and waited for with Ultimate, and don’t have to support the next Smash or the one after if it doesn’t give me the same fulfillment, characters or otherwise. I mean if Melee can still be enjoyed and played for decades, so can Ultimate. I’ll be fine either way.

To clarify, I still think most if not all the major 1st parties that took real effort will remain in the next games for all intents and purposes (Ridley included who was a Smash staple before he became playable) as the most likely logical outcome, but preparing myself for any kind of scenario/direction going forward just in case. Again though, will be fine just playing Ultimate when I grow older if nothing else. Life is short.

I don't see most first party staying- not that I can clarify what 'major' means here. I am curious what characters, of the 60ish, you see returning, if we were not to get a reboot.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I don’t have a listed prediction of who all I think will return, nor is it something I care to come up with. Such a thing would be premature at this time.

I know that 3rd party fans/mains know their character may very well not come back too, and I empathize with them as far as that, whether my main happens to return or not. Ultimate will be a one time thing no matter how many fighters remain the next games, but doesn’t mean they can’t still be worthwhile. I hope for more of the same even if it’s not 80+ characters which I realize is not indefinitely sustainable. People hoping for an Ultimate Deluxe or something are the ones setting themselves up for disappointment, methinks.

 

[cybersai]

Reducing the roster of the next Smash to a Brawl sized roster of 35 characters isn't going to go well. You can't cut 60+ characters and expect people to be fine with it. Smash sells based on the roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Obviously, if cuts will happen, it'll be due to Licensing and deadlines. And DLC can change that, but DLC is so far never part of the base game equation, as in both cases, it was decided to be a thing after the base game roster was completed.

Model Swap Fighters absolutely can be removed, but only some. Jigglypuff wouldn't be, but ones like Dr. Mario could bite the dust again(though as of now, probably not). It also depends pretty much who the base is. An Echo will definitely leave if its base is gone. Chrom isn't in a good position, but Roy probably is, which fixes that issue as is. Robin is the only on of the Awakening Trio who is in a good position entirely.

Then you realize that most Model Swap Fighters and Echoes are easy to do, so cutting them is only a case of "did we already meet the deadline, or can we still do them?". Sakurai doesn't even really go into the idea of Semi-clones either, so they're probably in the same position, etc.

But yeah, cuts are inevitable, but it's going not reduce it by much. A reboot is massively unrealistic.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Reducing the roster of the next Smash to a Brawl sized roster of 35 characters isn't going to go well. You can't cut 60+ characters and expect people to be fine with it. Smash sells based on the roster.

People will say that it needs or needed to be done in the name of balance, but Ultimate has been the most balanced Smash by far despite having the biggest roster.

And yeah, a future game with a much smaller roster I don’t see selling over 20 million like Ultimate. Maybe half of that, but come on.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Reducing the roster of the next Smash to a Brawl sized roster of 35 characters isn't going to go well. You can't cut 60+ characters and expect people to be fine with it. Smash sells based on the roster.

Considering most fighting games seem to continue to expand on the combat mechanic... I honestly see the next game really getting into what makes character unique- even more than the current game- and adding more intense mechanics.
Thirty five characters is still a lot when they are each given a complete remake from the ground up.

But yeah, cuts are inevitable, but it's going not reduce it by much. A reboot is massively unrealistic.

So...you see an inferior game as a more feasible option?

Smash sells based on the roster.

Requoting because this is the exact point I am making- it is HIGHLY unlikely that a new Smash could come anywhere near to the level of this roster.
If it can, great- it can be Ultimate and then some. However, to me, THAT is the very unlikely option, logically.
In the scenarios where the game just keeps getting remade, but is the same game... or they actually move it significantly forward... the latter is what comes after the climax.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...How is having a big roster an inferior game again?

No, your previous messages still don't make for a good point to me.

A reboot is not going to help. Ultimate has the biggest roster and still the most balance to date. Even some cuts but still a big roster won't change anything related to having enough time for single player modes. It having a big roster isn't the problem with single player. It's that the modes couldn't really get more interesting anymore. Target Tests legitimately had no way to evolve as is by this point. Smash Run was 3DS-specific and wouldn't flow well anyway. There's way too many characters after Brawl's 39 to justify a normal All-Star Mode like before(requiring it to be Multi Man style), and they simply ran out of time as is for HRC, which came back anyway with no issues.

Brawl already showed having 30+ characters makes the Classic Target Test impossible as is. It's not SSE. They would have to make them based upon the particular character. Generic was actually required to have any kind of balance, and it still sucked. The Angry Birds version sucked slightly less since you could easily get Trophies and Customs, but it wasn't that great either. You could add them to Stage Creator, but... that's it. Race to the Finish was already back and actually quite well made. Nice, simple, workable. Board the Platforms is the same issue as Target Test and was only partially there in Melee by essentially making RTTF similar in how the big stage is designed. But that's cause RTTF is Platforming, not a wade through enemies thing, so it made sense.

There's not that much they can do anyway. A lot of these mini-games were being slowly removed because they couldn't have a better impact. Target Test actively got worse since Brawl by design(again, Angry Birds is kind of better, but only due to having better rewards. It still wasn't good by any means). They can't churn out old modes over and over either. They need to have quality to them. As eh as the generic stuff is, they still have quality to them. Removing the ability to get Trophies easily in Brawl was the biggest issue it had, though. Like, two Target Tests were bad, but no Grab The Trophies was fairly annoying. It's more RNG pools to make, but... a much better idea. They focused too much on Stickers. Ultimate fixed this by combining Stickers, Customs, and Trophies all in one.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Reducing the roster of the next Smash to a Brawl sized roster of 35 characters isn't going to go well. You can't cut 60+ characters and expect people to be fine with it. Smash sells based on the roster.

...How is having a big roster an inferior game again?

No, your previous messages still don't make for a good point to me.

A reboot is not going to help. Ultimate has the biggest roster and still the most balance to date. Even some cuts but still a big roster won't change anything related to having enough time for single player modes. It having a big roster isn't the problem with single player. It's that the modes couldn't really get more interesting anymore. Target Tests legitimately had no way to evolve as is by this point. Smash Run was 3DS-specific and wouldn't flow well anyway. There's way too many characters after Brawl's 39 to justify a normal All-Star Mode like before(requiring it to be Multi Man style), and they simply ran out of time as is for HRC, which came back anyway with no issues.

Brawl already showed having 30+ characters makes the Classic Target Test impossible as is. It's not SSE. They would have to make them based upon the particular character. Generic was actually required to have any kind of balance, and it still sucked. The Angry Birds version sucked slightly less since you could easily get Trophies and Customs, but it wasn't that great either. You could add them to Stage Creator, but... that's it. Race to the Finish was already back and actually quite well made. Nice, simple, workable. Board the Platforms is the same issue as Target Test and was only partially there in Melee by essentially making RTTF similar in how the big stage is designed. But that's cause RTTF is Platforming, not a wade through enemies thing, so it made sense.

There's not that much they can do anyway. A lot of these mini-games were being slowly removed because they couldn't have a better impact. Target Test actively got worse since Brawl by design(again, Angry Birds is kind of better, but only due to having better rewards. It still wasn't good by any means). They can't churn out old modes over and over either. They need to have quality to them. As eh as the generic stuff is, they still have quality to them. Removing the ability to get Trophies easily in Brawl was the biggest issue it had, though. Like, two Target Tests were bad, but no Grab The Trophies was fairly annoying. It's more RNG pools to make, but... a much better idea. They focused too much on Stickers. Ultimate fixed this by combining Stickers, Customs, and Trophies all in one.

It is inferior not for roster size- no matter what, there will have to be many cuts, if for no other reason than that many of the third party characters would not be able to come back (almost definitely). Unless they can keep the same roster and continue adding (again, unlikely), then the next game will not be able to have a lot of the current characters.

So... it would have to cut a significant number of characters. You can argue that deleting 15 and adding a new 15 would be a game on par, but on par is still less than if it is a sequel in this scenario. I do ask- what exactly do you see happening by removing a chunk, just to add a new chunk? How is this not inferior, unless the preference is just to have those characters which appeal to you?

A reboot isn't "restarting from the beginning and making it the same." A reboot is "reimagining the series and, while taking what worked in the inital, building upon it with new eyes, to fit the greater purpose.
Reading reboot does not mean simply cutting the characters back to a small number- it means completely reworking the old characters, and likely adding many new elements to how the game plays. Even if the game can have 50 or 70 characters, it is less than Ultimate, but still too much to be adding bulk to what exists.

The only scenario I can think, to which you are describing, is just to keep adding on to what already exists. That or a reboot are the only viable options that I can see for a sequel (and if you have another, which I have yet to read, please open up my mind to the idea).
Yet, just having all we have now, then adding more, doesn't seem like an option for the next game- if merely because of licensing, since we currently have almost 20 characters (a quarter of the roster, many of which are draws for new fans) is an illogical move. Is this what you dispute?

You brought up quantity- and I agree. The next game will likely improve the quality of gameplay, significantly. When I say this, I do not mean balance- I mean more to the table, both in characters, and IMO, a solid story mode (which was a huge draw in the past, but not done to most fans satisfaction).
The quantity of the roster is unlikely to be matched, but even if it is, will likely take just as many cuts as additions that it makes.

To everyone who feels that the reboot is unlikely- what exactly, very specifically, do you see happening to the roster? When I asked this before, it may have sounded too targeted to a single individual.

 

[Jurae818]

Never mind Dixie's stance in Smash for now, I'm gonna address the DK game rumors first.
To be honest, that was my main hope for E3 after Breath of the Wild 2. Not seeing that title was a downer in itself and it made me realize a similar situation that DK was in on another platform:

A port of an old game on a hot platform. Tropical Freeze was also dropped relatively early in the Switch's lifetime, and if history repeats itself, this is going to be the same song and dance. I really wanted to buy a Switch for a new DKC game, but I brought one to support K. Rool in Ultimate and mainly for BotW2. Heads up; Monster Hunter saved the day the same way it saved my 3DS purchase when Sticker Star was shown.

Back to DKC, I'm not expecting a new DK game period for the Switch. Dixie not showing up is one thing, a new DK game not being in development is another problem altogether. Tropical Freeze will always come off as a fluke, a fluke that Nintendo could easily push as an early port and leave it at that akin to Returns. They didn't even try to call it Donkey Kong Land Returns. Rare would have definitely try to phone that one in, which should tell you how the Japanese-orientated Nintendo feels about DK that isn't related to the character, the non-DKC elements and the DKC brand in general when they feel like dipping their feet and only their feet into it.

Now, if the last character is a safe pick like Kazuya, if it happens to be Dixie, that would be a surprise in its own way; a 1st party that costs nothing to license and a non-hype 3rd party pick. Of course it would be hype in my book but consider that Smash brings damn near every fanbase from all parts of the video game universe with each game and their feelings on our girl is to be expected.

At this point, you're going to have to get real loud and obnoxious if you want DKC to get the big boys treatment it got back in the 90's let alone getting Dixie in Smash. Remember what the Kutthroats did with K. Rool? You'll need that same energy for both the DKC brand and its elements. Settling for scraps is what the haters want you do to, hence why they call Dixie fans greedy for not settling for the character they were attacking before he got confirmed. Always demand more and never compromise.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Never mind Dixie's stance in Smash for now, I'm gonna address the DK game rumors first.
To be honest, that was my main hope for E3 after Breath of the Wild 2. Not seeing that title was a downer in itself and it made me realize a similar situation that DK was in on another platform:

A port of an old game on a hot platform. Tropical Freeze was also dropped relatively early in the Switch's lifetime, and if history repeats itself, this is going to be the same song and dance. I really wanted to buy a Switch for a new DKC game, but I brought one to support K. Rool in Ultimate and mainly for BotW2. Heads up; Monster Hunter saved the day the same way it saved my 3DS purchase when Sticker Star was shown.

Back to DKC, I'm not expecting a new DK game period for the Switch. Dixie not showing up is one thing, a new DK game not being in development is another problem altogether. Tropical Freeze will always come off as a fluke, a fluke that Nintendo could easily push as an early port and leave it at that akin to Returns. They didn't even try to call it Donkey Kong Land Returns. Rare would have definitely try to phone that one in, which should tell you how the Japanese-orientated Nintendo feels about DK that isn't related to the character, the non-DKC elements and the DKC brand in general when they feel like dipping their feet and only their feet into it.

Now, if the last character is a safe pick like Kazuya, if it happens to be Dixie, that would be a surprise in its own way; a 1st party that costs nothing to license and a non-hype 3rd party pick. Of course it would be hype in my book but consider that Smash brings damn near every fanbase from all parts of the video game universe with each game and their feelings on our girl is to be expected.

At this point, you're going to have to get real loud and obnoxious if you want DKC to get the big boys treatment it got back in the 90's let alone getting Dixie in Smash. Remember what the Kutthroats did with K. Rool? You'll need that same energy for both the DKC brand and its elements. Settling for scraps is what the haters want you do to, hence why they call Dixie fans greedy for not settling for the character they were attacking before he got confirmed. Always demand more and never compromise.

How Machiavellian of an approach. Time to take some hostages.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Most aren't going to want to see a bunch of characters cut and sacrificed for say, another ambitious story mode, or some other kind of single player mode that takes a lot of resources. Even if one happened, they wouldn't have everyone in the game in it, considering the DLC characters that would still come after the base game. Even with Brawl, the last minute additions such as Wolf had no presence in SSE, so not everyone was there in the story.

More on topic, if the next Smash is less 3rd party heavy (we've honestly narrowed it down to a lot of iconic 3rd party franchises as it is now, so hard to see Smash going as all out with them again but ya never know), it'll bode well for Dixie, even if there turns out to be a bit more cuts than we would've liked.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Most aren't going to want to see a bunch of characters cut and sacrificed for say, another ambitious story mode, or some other kind of single player mode that takes a lot of resources. Even if one happened, they wouldn't have everyone in the game in it, considering the DLC characters that would still come after the base game. Even with Brawl, the last minute additions such as Wolf had no presence in SSE, so not everyone was there in the story.

To everyone who feels that the reboot is unlikely- what exactly, very specifically, do you see happening to the roster? When I asked this before, it may have sounded too targeted to a single individual.

Please do answer in specificity what you see happening, aside from what you don't see happening.
(Aside from your POV of 'what most people want.')

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Why are you asking us to speculate the future for the sake of it? We're just saying what we would prefer to see; Smash continuing in the same direction it has for awhile. Even without everyone being back, you can still have a lot of the same characters with Ultimate's assets along with some new ones that'll satisfy plenty enough people to still buy.

Smash does sell on its roster though. I don't know why you can't seem to accept that. If you have more a preference for a reboot smaller roster, that's your opinion and I'll respect it, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Realistically I think the only way to re-incorporate more classic single player content with a roster this large is to have a user generated infrastructure to effectively make it. Players creating their own break the targets, board the platforms, spirit battles, and so on could provide a ton of content if the system is in place to allow it. That approach in general could be way to really differentiate a next Smash, especially if they allowed for more customization with Mii character appearances/movesets as well as stage maker to more or less advertise the next SSB as one being made for and by the fanbase.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Why are you asking us to speculate the future for the sake of it? We're just saying what we would prefer to see; Smash continuing in the same direction it has for awhile. Even without everyone being back, you can still have a lot of the same characters with Ultimate's assets along with some new ones that'll satisfy plenty enough people to still buy.

Smash does sell on its roster though. I don't know why you can't seem to accept that. If you have more a preference for a reboot smaller roster, that's your opinion and I'll respect it, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because your vision sounds half assed, to be perfectly frank.
I called it inferior and your claim is 'no.' Okay, so then, what roster? Show me what you would consider both realistic and even on par, much less superior. If people want a game for roster, Ultimate is the go to game. It can be resold continually, as well. We can still buy Street Fighter 2.

I do accept that Smash sells on the roster, in many ways- which is why anything will be inferior to the one we have now. You tell me you cannot see a reboot, yet cannot claim what it is that you do see.

Anyway, this is pointless, because there isn't a complete argument opposing the reboot statement, just vague ideas that don't have cohesion.

 

[cybersai]

All the single player modes were reduced, world of light is just glorified spirit battles with a board. They're never going to focus on single player again.

Either way the only roster cuts I could see is some echoes and maybe if some third party licensing falls through, but even then I don't see them cutting tons of characters for no reason. Dixie has a chance as long as the roster is never reduced to 30ish characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Never mind Dixie's stance in Smash for now, I'm gonna address the DK game rumors first.
To be honest, that was my main hope for E3 after Breath of the Wild 2. Not seeing that title was a downer in itself and it made me realize a similar situation that DK was in on another platform:

A port of an old game on a hot platform. Tropical Freeze was also dropped relatively early in the Switch's lifetime, and if history repeats itself, this is going to be the same song and dance. I really wanted to buy a Switch for a new DKC game, but I brought one to support K. Rool in Ultimate and mainly for BotW2. Heads up; Monster Hunter saved the day the same way it saved my 3DS purchase when Sticker Star was shown.

Back to DKC, I'm not expecting a new DK game period for the Switch. Dixie not showing up is one thing, a new DK game not being in development is another problem altogether. Tropical Freeze will always come off as a fluke, a fluke that Nintendo could easily push as an early port and leave it at that akin to Returns. They didn't even try to call it Donkey Kong Land Returns. Rare would have definitely try to phone that one in, which should tell you how the Japanese-orientated Nintendo feels about DK that isn't related to the character, the non-DKC elements and the DKC brand in general when they feel like dipping their feet and only their feet into it.

Now, if the last character is a safe pick like Kazuya, if it happens to be Dixie, that would be a surprise in its own way; a 1st party that costs nothing to license and a non-hype 3rd party pick. Of course it would be hype in my book but consider that Smash brings damn near every fanbase from all parts of the video game universe with each game and their feelings on our girl is to be expected.

At this point, you're going to have to get real loud and obnoxious if you want DKC to get the big boys treatment it got back in the 90's let alone getting Dixie in Smash. Remember what the Kutthroats did with K. Rool? You'll need that same energy for both the DKC brand and its elements. Settling for scraps is what the haters want you do to, hence why they call Dixie fans greedy for not settling for the character they were attacking before he got confirmed. Always demand more and never compromise.

I respect your notion, but aren't you at least a little optimistic about Donkey Kong seeing that series as dormant as Wario Ware and Advance Wars are getting new games ? Metroid is even getting a new game, and it's not even Prime 4. That one is also coming.

I think you're slightly too pessimistic my friend. DKC tops Metroid, Wario and Advance Wars, combined. There's no good reason why they shouldn't make a game at this point. Reliable resources have said it's coming, I'd choose to trust it. Donkey Kong is a big namesake worthy of a presentation of it's own. See how Metroid Dread was announced, and will even release this year? I expect a similar situation for Donkey Kong to happen soon.

But yes, the outcry could be louder. I agree fully.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

With the preorder numbers Dread has made so far and it being on the Switch, there's no reason it shouldn't make at least a few million, breaking series records out of previous games. The first Prime making over two million was still impressive though considering it was on the Gamecube, a much smaller installbase. With the mistimed announcement of Prime 4, which the development restart as well as covid didn't help with, I'm surprisingly more optimistic for Metroid succeeding again than I have in awhile.

And yeah, Dread as a sequel to Fusion aside, is great to see other things back like Advance Wars. The GBA libarary finally getting a legacy here. Was also pleasantly surprised to see Cruis'N USA on the Switch. Loved it on the 64 back in the day.

Because your vision sounds half assed, to be perfectly frank.
I called it inferior and your claim is 'no.' Okay, so then, what roster? Show me what you would consider both realistic and even on par, much less superior. If people want a game for roster, Ultimate is the go to game. It can be resold continually, as well. We can still buy Street Fighter 2.

I do accept that Smash sells on the roster, in many ways- which is why anything will be inferior to the one we have now. You tell me you cannot see a reboot, yet cannot claim what it is that you do see.

Anyway, this is pointless, because there isn't a complete argument opposing the reboot statement, just vague ideas that don't have cohesion.

You're starting to get ad hominem here. It's not cool that you demand we shown a complete vision when you haven't done so yourself.

No Smash has ever been resold or been available on another platform (not on virtual console, nada), and I don't think that'll change with Ultimate. Nintendo doesn't want any previous games like Melee which still has a scene for example, to take away from the sales of the current and future Smash titles.

I haven't seen any cohesion from you on the idea of a reboot either; just tossing around random small concepts. I'll respect whatever decision is made by Sakurai or whoever does the next Smash, even if it doesn't interest me enough to buy and I'll just stick to Ultimate in which case, but I'm glad you're not one of the people behind the wheel.

 

[Jurae818]

The reason I feel this way goes back to that same post - DKC is largely western, keyword DKC. Advance Wars and WarioWare are Japanese or created by a Japanese source and while Advance Wars is definitely a shocker, it still was made by a Japanese studio, said studio being consistent with their releases in that series prior to its respite. Donkey Kong in general hasn't had a consistent developer and in the span of a decade, only two new games, said games being ported at least once. That's what bothers me - those two games did well, Returns even outselling a mainline Zelda title. Yet here we are in the dark. Some of my cynicism derives from the DKU forums, but there was a post that Sean made that came to pass when Returns and Tropical Freeze released without the Kremlings. Now that DK got two games, the series is more or less done according to some boneheads who are unable to muster a creative bone in their body.

Keep in mind this was when Metroid was still in its dire state and people were crying about Retro becoming the Donkey Kong Company just because they refused to remain the Metroid Prime Company (And they got their wish with Prime 4, it better be good). I generally don't buy ports, even if they have new material. Wind Waker HD was the only time I did so and that was only because it came with the Wii U I brought as a bundle. Metroid Prime (Keyword Prime) is also a western IP and Retro has been consistent with its releases. Metroid in general isn't popular in Japan, but it's still Japanese in origin. DK lost a developer (Rare), had a developer that didn't get why DKC was popular (Nintendo Tokyo) and had both the original and re-release flop twice and a secondary developer that developed games that would accentuate a mainline title (Paon) that lacked said mainline title. With Retro developing two titles in a row, you had people screeching about the DK series taking their developer away from Metroid and the Federation Force debacle did no favors for them, making their frustrations magnified.

Going back to Sean's post, people see DK as mostly fine and that's the problem. Smash is one thing, but a series needs to be able to stand on its own two feet without Smash's publicity. Dixie was mostly fine thanks to Tropical Freeze, but by Ultimate, her absence from the game did her no favors. And now in 2021, that truancy grows by the second. K. Rool's reception is great, but it also goes back to what I said - since K. Rool is 'back' and he's technically still AWOL - there isn't any need for anything else from DK, at least in the context of Smash. There are also arguments that due to the Wii U's stigma, Tropical Freeze DX is just as good as a new DK title and the quota has already been filled. This irritates me the most. What was the point of buying a Switch if all they're going to do is port older games?

Some say pessimism, I say realistic. I've been optimistic for too long and I find it better to be critical and cautious than to blindly think all is good and all will be good. I'm not saying you guys can't be that way, but for me, I've been burned too much in life to where I don't want that pain to return again.

But on a lighter note, there is room for both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool and Dixie's inclusion doesn't take away from a 3rd party the same way that K. Rool wasn't taking a spot from a one-off character that wishes they could be part of a recurring multi-million dollar selling series. I actually hope Dixie is the last 'underwhelming' reveal. It'd serve both as a reminder that this is still a Nintendo crossover while also giving DK just a little more care and attention. Plus, a new stage that breaks from the jungle archtype and a varied catalog of music.

Edit: I want to revise a statement I made: DKC being western does make for somewhat of a culture shock with Nintendo, but Paon, Camelot and Namco had no issue with using DKC's elements, Camelot wanting to do a DK64 sequel even. So it's not that Japan can't make a DKC, they have with Paon mainly making those handheld titles and Barrel Blast, it's that Nintendo themselves seem to lean on their Japanese audience (Which I can't blame them for) while the western side depends on whether or not they want to dabble in on it.

It's a matter of seeing if a Japanese developer can do a full-fledged DKC game with the DKC spirit intact, and Nintendo may not be the developer for that job.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Here's my take.

I don't think we're necessarily going to have the explosion of a DK sub series like we did circa 97-2008, however I do think another game is coming quicker than many realize both because there's enough people at Nintendo whom have an investment in Donkey Kong as a property and because quite frankly there's likely more money to be made in DK than in Advance Wars or Metroid, and those have just gotten fairly big games announced.

Its fantastic that Dread is apparently doing strong pre-order business and given the Switch's momentum I'm confident it will do some great numbers at release. But Donkey Kong as a property (particularly the Country variety) has almost always done better than Metroid in terms of sales, and the former has rarely struggled in Japan like the latter has; more than anyone, Nintendo is aware of that. Throw in stuff like the DK section of Super Nintendo World, and there's every reason for the company to strengthen the brand sooner rather than later.

I'm as frustrated as anyone that its been such a long period for new DK content, however given Nintendo's profitable but sensible strategy with Switch releases? There is a logic to doing a port of Tropical Freeze first to maximize profits from a Wii U game (that underperformed due to the console's status), and then later doing a full blown new game that they don't have to rush to market because TF filled the void for a lot people. I think that's what's happened here and that Nintendo can and will use a new DK game to plug any perceived hardware gap in the next 12 months. Maybe that'll involve something significant for Dixie or maybe it won't, but there is financial gain to be had in Donkey Kong titles, and everything in the past four years demonstrates Nintendo knows how to capitalize on such opportunities.