Discussion thread for the 2024 USA election

[CannonStreak]

This is the thread for the 2024 USA election. It was previously something else that was related to the election, but now it is this. Feel free to discuss anything about the election itself in the United States here.

Personally, I am worried because I think there is the possibility of Donald Trump winning unfairly. I have a feeling he will try to cheat like he did with having Russia interfere with the next election like with 2016 (and 2020), or worse yet, he will try to find a new way to cheat in the election that authorities might not be ready for. Furthermore, while there are smart people that exist in the USA, I do not really trust the people of the United States to make the right decision in this election, if just most of but not all of them and if for some silly reason. That said, I am not too worried about him winning fairly or what happens if he wins, but I don't really want Donald J. Trump to win the next USA election and I am worried he might cheat to win it. I know he has many cases against him now, but still, those take time, and what if they do not finish before the election and he wins?

I mean, I just hope he does not win and many people in the USA end up being smart enough not to vote for him. I still have my doubts, though.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

It’s going to be a **** show regardless. I’m stocking up on supplies and defense gear just in case things goes south.

 

[CannonStreak]

It’s going to be a **** show regardless. I’m stocking up on supplies and defense gear just in case things goes south.

Well, you do have a point there. In fact, I would personally love to at least watch the **** show, myself, and see what chaos results from it. That, at least, might be fun.

EDIT: By which, I mean what goes on in the election, not in places like these.

 

[Nah]

tbh we're screwed no matter what happens

It's almost certainly going to be Trump v Biden again, and in that scenario the outcomes are:
1) Trump wins, and that's not a good thing
2) Trump doesn't win, but then conservatives do something that will make Jan 6th look like a children's playdate by comparison
3) Biden wins (which is not a good thing) but conservatives do not do anything significant enough to overturn the election

Even if somehow one or both of them don't get the nomination, all the other people most likely to get the nominations will also be awful choices.

 

[Alicorn]

Trump isn't going to win, there are more people who hate him than like him. He is also an insurrectionist so he shouldn't be on the ballot in the first place. Trump is barred the same way anyone who is under 35 and a foreign born citizen.

 

[Sucumbio]

My worry right now is scotus ruling in Trump's favor. He may be an insurrectionist but he was not found guilty of insurrection and that is a problem because these ballot removals are hinging on the fact that he was.

 

[CannonStreak]

My worry right now is scotus ruling in Trump's favor. He may be an insurrectionist but he was not found guilty of insurrection and that is a problem because these ballot removals are hinging on the fact that he was.

Yeah, I am worried about that, too, actually.

 

[MasterCheef]

What I am trying to say is that I think there is the possibility of Donald Trump winning unfairly. I have a feeling he will try to cheat like he did with having Russia interfere with the next election like with 2016 (and 2020), or worse yet, he will try to find a new way to cheat in the election that authorities might not be ready for. Furthermore, while there are smart people that exist in the USA, I do not really trust the people of the United States to make the right decision in this election, if just most of but not all of them and if for some silly reason. That said, I am not too worried about him winning fairly or what happens if he wins, but I don't really want Donald J. Trump to win the next USA election and I am worried he might cheat to win it. I know he has many cases against him now, but still, those take time, and what if they do not finish before the election and he wins?

I mean, I just hope he does not win and many people in the USA end up being smart enough not to vote for him. I still have my doubts, though.

What do you all think? What do you all have to say about this, if you have anything to say?

The Ignorance in this post is quite incredible.
Hillary Stole the Democratic nomination election from Bernie Sanders.
The amount of unpaid essentially free advertising by the left stream media would have cost anyone else literally hundreds of billions to over 1 trillion dollars ,
for both the 2016 & 2020 elections
There is no way a basement dwelling non campaigning major nominee won the election.
There is huge evidence of Election fraud in 2020 for JB.
JB was basically a CCP spy before the election with how much he has gotten paid by the CCP

 

[CannonStreak]

The Ignorance in this post is quite incredible.
Hillary Stole the Democratic nomination election from Bernie Sanders.
The amount of unpaid essentially free advertising by the left stream media would have cost anyone else literally hundreds of billions to over 1 trillion dollars ,
for both the 2016 & 2020 elections
There is no way a basement dwelling non campaigning major nominee won the election.
There is huge evidence of Election fraud in 2020 for JB.
JB was basically a CCP spy before the election with how much he has gotten paid by the CCP

After last time and knowing who you are, I am not falling for any of this.

You are once again, falling for Trump’s lies, as well as for the lies of many of the republicans. I don’t see how you can be relied on here due to that.

 

[MasterCheef]

After last time and knowing who you are, I am not falling for any of this.

You are once again, falling for Trump’s lies, as well as for the lies of many of the republicans. I don’t see how you can be relied on here due to that

RINOs are the designated & very dedicated political losers of the USA

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

I'm not American, but my advice to y'all is two-pronged:

1. Vote! It's not my place to tell you who to vote for, but your vote does matter. Don't let the fear of everything going on around you stop you from doing that. At the end of the day - things won't get better unless people make them better, and one of the best ways to help that happen is with your vote.
2. Keep safe, and don't do anything stupid! I know this probably goes without saying for y'all, but if **** hits the fan, try and keep out of the way of it if you can - and if not, try and bunker down. Don't take the opportunity to go crazy or something, because it'll only go badly for you.

Otherwise... I'll admit things don't look good over there. Keep yourselves safe and informed. It counts, I promise.

 

[Perkilator]

After witnessing the events that are continuing to unfold in Gaza, I just wish we could live in a world that isn’t ruled by heartless, decrepit warmongers.

 

[Oracle Link]

There isnt a thread for it here so im quickly trying to calm you for the rise of the AFD In germany!
Like yeah that party suck and is pretty heavy Right tro extreme Right BUT Its like the only party who didnt get the oppurtunity to **** up as soon as they get in they will **** up! And People will vote for any other party!
NO Germany will almost certainly not be nazis for the next 20-30 Years!
After wards who knows! But No Germany is currently no danger to you guys! You would bulldoze us!

 

[Alicorn]

There isnt a thread for it here so im quickly trying to calm you for the rise of the AFD In germany!
Like yeah that party suck and is pretty heavy Right tro extreme Right BUT Its like the only party who didnt get the oppurtunity to ** up as soon as they get in they will ** up! And People will vote for any other party!
NO Germany will almost certainly not be nazis for the next 20-30 Years!
After wards who knows! But No Germany is currently no danger to you guys! You would bulldoze us!

The clown with the flame thrower hasn't gotten on stage yet so he isn't dangerous

 

[CannonStreak]

You know, after looking on a social media site called Threads, and seeing how many people support Biden and oppose Trump on there, I have a pretty good feeling that this election will go to the blue. (The Democrat party, that is) Sure, what I saw may still be from a not so big number of people, but it is still a good sign. Plus, I have seen news that Latino lawmakers in Pennsylvania and something called the Latino Victory Fund have endorsed Biden, and Trump is not as strong with the population of the USA compared to Biden it seems.

And Trump has been having legal troubles and owes 464 million dollars now. It looks like things aren't going well for Trump, so if he wins, the only logical explanation is that he cheated.

 

[Perkilator]

After witnessing the events that are continuing to unfold in Gaza, I just wish we could live in a world that isn’t ruled by heartless, decrepit warmongers.

After thinking about this some more, I feel like the younger generation needs to stage a revolt against what the world has conditioned us to believe or else nothing’s going to change.

 

[Alicorn]

I have to agree what's going on in Gaza has me enraged. I have never seen President so subserviently to a foreign leader. The more I heard about Gaza and the protest the more I feel Biden just does not care.

 

[MasterCheef]

Trump isn't going to win, there are more people who hate him than like him. He is also an insurrectionist so he shouldn't be on the ballot in the first place. Trump is barred the same way anyone who is under 35 and a foreign born citizen.

.
.
I am quite interested to know how you can be soo certain 45 was behind the supposed insurrection ; when we don't even know of all the 3 letter agencies whjch had treasonous agents there planning to cause violence & destruction , how many there even were ?

 

[Alicorn]

I speak of the wounded and the dying, bought by the hands of someone whom I believed was merciful and you MasterCheef bring up this?

 

[MasterCheef]

I speak of the wounded and the dying, bought by the hands of someone whom I believed was merciful and you MasterCheef bring up this?

.
Yes because it is Justice to find out who the real perpetrators are & then have them be brought to judgement

 

[Alicorn]

You are missing the point. I am talking about a current event that has major impact on the 2024 election. You are talking about nothing and I'm not saying that to sound cold hearted. You are talking about something that has nothing to do with the present. But it would be cruel of me to leave your question unanswered so I will answer it.

Trump is an insurrectionist because the Senators who were there said the GOP did not convict Trump because they were afraid for their lives both in the physical and political sense. They all knew he was guilty but refused to preform their constitutional duty.

Second its well known that those agencies you are talking about are staffed by the administration in power. This means that those agencies couldn't turn against Trump because they were hand picked by Trump. Trump is infamous for being picky about who he associates himself with. Trump would not let just anyone in his inner circle.

 

[Nah]

Alicorn you’re surprised at how Biden has been handling Gaza?

 

[Alicorn]

Sadly no, but I wanted to have hope that I would be wrong, I wanted to keep an open mind and give the elderly statesmen a chance.

 

[CannonStreak]

I have to agree what's going on in Gaza has me enraged. I have never seen President so subserviently to a foreign leader. The more I heard about Gaza and the protest the more I feel Biden just does not care.

Odd, I thought Biden was against what Israel's leader was doing in Gaza. I also thought he warned that person on a phone call, and that he was not sending Israel weapons because of what was happening over there.

I am aware that does not mean he is doing something about it much, but that is not what I have heard or have been told.

EDIT: Now, I am aware that there is going to be shipment and aid to Israel from the USA, or is likely to happen, but from what I read, it is apparent that Biden did not want to do that. It was the House republicans who are trying to force that to happen by overriding a pause in sending such aid to Israel. With that said, it was probably more of the House of Congress rather than Biden wanting to do that, and I think the majority of the House (again, the republicans) might be more subservient to Israel than Biden is.

Here are some things that could explain it more.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/4658304-sunday-shows-preview-bidens-threat-to-halt-weapons-to-israel-sparks-gop-outrage/

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4669080-house-passes-bill-undo-bidens-weapons-freeze-to-israel/

Either way, I will admit one thing: I do wish all this carnage against the Palestinians would stop.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Genocide Joe is most certainly just as guilty as anyone in politics. You need only look at the official position being genocide is self-defense and Israel has a right to self-defense (genocide). It's just that he's terrified of his base splitting over Michigan Arabs being outraged over their kinsman being slaughtered and young voters being outraged over everything.

Like, most of the world period is opposed to this genocide and he still can't bring himself to call it a genocide.

 

[Nah]

Odd, I thought Biden was against what Israel's leader was doing in Gaza. I also thought he warned that person on a phone call, and that he was not sending Israel weapons because of what was happening over there.

I am aware that does not mean he is doing something about it much, but that is not what I have heard or have been told.

EDIT: Now, I am aware that there is going to be shipment and aid to Israel from the USA, or is likely to happen, but from what I read, it is apparent that Biden did not want to do that. It was the House republicans who are trying to force that to happen by overriding a pause in sending such aid to Israel. With that said, it was probably more of the House of Congress rather than Biden wanting to do that, and I think the majority of the House (again, the republicans) might be more subservient to Israel than Biden is.

Here are some things that could explain it more.

https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/4658304-sunday-shows-preview-bidens-threat-to-halt-weapons-to-israel-sparks-gop-outrage/

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4669080-house-passes-bill-undo-bidens-weapons-freeze-to-israel/

Either way, I will admit one thing: I do wish all this carnage against the Palestinians would stop.

nah he's not opposed to it at all

The suspension of weapons to Israel is not a full-on suspension of weapons shipments, but rather a conditional and temporary pause on one specific weapon (large bombs)--Israel is still getting most of the military aid and intelligence support the US provides it, and Israel was already well-supplied anyway.

The US and Israel overestimated how much Oct 7 was going to let them get away with, so all of the "opposition" Biden has had to anything Israel has been doing since Oct 7 has entirely been PR stunts in order to try to preserve America's self-proclaimed image as the ultimate good guy of the world, as well as try to retain voters in an election year, since it's obvious that Gaza is giving people yet another reason not to vote for him this November. It's all empty words and meaningless gestures and stuff that is far too little, far too late. If the US really cared about the obvious genocide Israel is committing in Gaza, it would be doing a lot more about it, and it does have the power to do so, yet it chooses not to.

Something to keep in mind is that Israel has for pretty much its whole life enjoyed very strong bipartisan support from the US government, and that's not changed one bit. And as (the blue flavor of) American establishment incarnate, Biden was never going to deviate from that. There was never any reason to believe that the U.S., which has been happily supporting Israel's long campaign of discrimination and murder of Palestinians for decades, when the U.S.'s entire history is just one unending chain of oppression, genocide, and imperialism, was ever going to have a moment where Israel went too far for it and have enough of a conscience to try and stop it. Netanyahu knows that, no matter what Israel does, the US will always support it, so it's easy for him to act tough and be all like "Israel will do this alone if we have to!".

The media just likes to overstate Biden's words and gestures (and make it seem that the Democrats are divided on the matter when really it's only a handful of voices that have any serious opposition to the genocide in Gaza) for political reasons--either to try to prop up the idea that, no, Biden/the US isn't condoning genocide as well as basically prepare Netanyahu as a scapegoat if necessary (despite the fact that the problem stems from far more than just Netanyahu), or to portray him as weak and giving into the "radical far left" and abandoning such an important ally (an important ally for American imperialism anyway).

 

[CannonStreak]

nah he's not opposed to it at all

The suspension of weapons to Israel is not a full-on suspension of weapons shipments, but rather a conditional and temporary pause on one specific weapon (large bombs)--Israel is still getting most of the military aid and intelligence support the US provides it, and Israel was already well-supplied anyway.

The US and Israel overestimated how much Oct 7 was going to let them get away with, so all of the "opposition" Biden has had to anything Israel has been doing since Oct 7 has entirely been PR stunts in order to try to preserve America's self-proclaimed image as the ultimate good guy of the world, as well as try to retain voters in an election year, since it's obvious that Gaza is giving people yet another reason not to vote for him this November. It's all empty words and meaningless gestures and stuff that is far too little, far too late. If the US really cared about the obvious genocide Israel is committing in Gaza, it would be doing a lot more about it, and it does have the power to do so, yet it chooses not to.

Something to keep in mind is that Israel has for pretty much its whole life enjoyed very strong bipartisan support from the US government, and that's not changed one bit. And as (the blue flavor of) American establishment incarnate, Biden was never going to deviate from that. There was never any reason to believe that the U.S., which has been happily supporting Israel's long campaign of discrimination and murder of Palestinians for decades, when the U.S.'s entire history is just one unending chain of oppression, genocide, and imperialism, was ever going to have a moment where Israel went too far for it and have enough of a conscience to try and stop it. Netanyahu knows that, no matter what Israel does, the US will always support it, so it's easy for him to act tough and be all like "Israel will do this alone if we have to!".

The media just likes to overstate Biden's words and gestures (and make it seem that the Democrats are divided on the matter when really it's only a handful of voices that have any serious opposition to the genocide in Gaza) for political reasons--either to try to prop up the idea that, no, Biden/the US isn't condoning genocide as well as basically prepare Netanyahu as a scapegoat if necessary (despite the fact that the problem stems from far more than just Netanyahu), or to portray him as weak and giving into the "radical far left" and abandoning such an important ally (an important ally for American imperialism anyway).

And Biden's phone call to Netanyahu to warn him was all for nothing,or was nothing? Plus, do you have proof that that his opposition is PR, all aside from this October 7 thing? What happened in October 7 only does so much, and does not cover or deal with everything Biden thinks on something like this. To me, that is like saying a news source is untrustworthy and biased even though they tell the truth.

Plus, if Biden supports Israel's actions, which I doubt he does, and supports Israel's genocide in Gaza. how do you explain this?

U.S. Begins Construction on Temporary Pier to Deliver Humanitarian Aid to Gaza

Once the pier is completed, it will initially facilitate the delivery of an estimated 90 truckloads of international aid into Gaza and scale to up to 150 truckloads once fully operational.

www.defense.gov

He has been trying to make an aid to deliver aid to people in Gaza, which would probably not happen if Biden was supporting Israel's actions. Also, just because Israel enjoys strong support from the USA does not mean the US can oppose some things they do. Plus, I think you are generalizing the media and what they say about Biden here. Not all news media tell lies, you know. In fact, I think you are just being too untrustworthy of media to the point that you think all of the media can't be trusted. Not all news media is like, say, Fox News, which has a history of being a not-so-good news source.

Plus, just because Israel may be an important ally does not mean the US will not condone what they do and abandon them at the same time. You act like there is no in-between here in regards to the US and Biden supporting Israel or not. It seems you are underestimating the US and Biden here, like you are saying they can either just support Israel or not. It does not have to work that way.

I am not saying Biden is the best here or that he has no flaws, but I do not think his actions are really being understood here, and I think his actions are being dismissed for the wrong reasons. Besides, the unending chain of "oppression, genocide and imperialism" thing, even if that were fully true, you do not seem to realize that there have been good events in the USA, too, like civil rights movements and other changes and good things. I think you are just focusing on the bad things of the USA, plus, the USA is not the only one guilty of those things, too.

 

[Nah]

And Biden's phone call to Netanyahu to warn him was all for nothing,or was nothing? Plus, do you have proof that that his opposition is PR, all aside from this October 7 thing? What happened in October 7 only does so much, and does not cover or deal with everything Biden thinks on something like this. To me, that is like saying a news source is untrustworthy and biased even though they tell the truth.

I mean, look at it this way: this is very obviously genocide, Israel has never been very subtle about it. And since it is genocide, one of the worst crimes humanity can commit against itself, why hold anything back, why not go all in on condemning it? It's not for a lack of ability to do much about it, as the US is fully capable of putting real pressure on Israel. It can withhold all military aid to Israel, and since the US is Israel's biggest supplier of arms, that would really hurt its ability to wage war. The US could refuse to collaborate with Israeli intelligence agencies, which would have some degree of impact on Israel's war machine. The US could stop vetoing nearly every goddamn UN resolution that wants to do something about what's been happening in Gaza. American media could be taking a stance against the obvious genocide. The US could've been delivering real aid to Palestinians and forcing Israel to accept it.

And yet, we see none of that happening. The US still provides ample support to Israel, it vetoes **** all the time in the UN, and most media organizations are spending their time painting the college protests as inherently antisemitic and that the protests are calling for a second Holocaust, mindlessly repeating the tired old lines about how "Israel has a right to defend itself". The US withdrew its part of of funding from the main relief agency in that region the moment Israel brought up still unsubstantiated claims that UNRWA participated in Hamas' Oct 7 attack.

The US is not doing everything it can to help stop the genocide, and so the only logical conclusion is that it condones the genocide. It's not something you get to be gray about, you're either for it or against it.

Plus, if Biden supports Israel's actions, which I doubt he does, and supports Israel's genocide in Gaza. how do you explain this?

U.S. Begins Construction on Temporary Pier to Deliver Humanitarian Aid to Gaza

Once the pier is completed, it will initially facilitate the delivery of an estimated 90 truckloads of international aid into Gaza and scale to up to 150 truckloads once fully operational.

www.defense.gov

He has been trying to make an aid to deliver aid to people in Gaza, which would probably not happen if Biden was supporting Israel's actions. Also, just because Israel enjoys strong support from the USA does not mean the US can oppose some things they do.

Like I said before, it's too little, too late. Construction of a single pier several months after the start of the war when Gaza is and has been facing starvation and a general lack of basic necessities as a direct result of Israeli military action does not constitute meaningful attempts at dealing with the problem. Nevermind that once the aid makes it to the pier, it still has to make its way to people across Gaza, where Israelis might just attack the trucks and/or people trying to get aid anyway ( 1 2 3 ).

Plus, I think you are generalizing the media and what they say about Biden here. Not all news media tell lies, you know. In fact, I think you are just being too untrustworthy of media to the point that you think all of the media can't be trusted. Not all news media is like, say, Fox News, which has a history of being a not-so-good news source.

Sure, maybe not all the time, but most still lie or twist the truth enough that everyone should not take them at face value. Some are also just more subtle about their biases--ones like Fox News are not subtle about it and that's why it's one of the poster children for biased American news. It's always good to be a little wary and skeptical of any media organization, lest they become propaganda machines instead of journalism institutions. Which, if we're going to bring up the US Civil Rights movement, to quote one of its prominent figures:
"The media’s the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power."
"If you are not careful, the newspaper will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing oppressing."

Plus, just because Israel may be an important ally does not mean the US will not condone what they do and abandon them at the same time. You act like there is no in-between here in regards to the US and Biden supporting Israel or not. It seems you are underestimating the US and Biden here, like you are saying they can either just support Israel or not. It does not have to work that way.

I am not saying Biden is the best here or that he has no flaws, but I do not think his actions are really being understood here, and I think his actions are being dismissed for the wrong reasons. Besides, the unending chain of "oppression, genocide and imperialism" thing, even if that were fully true, you do not seem to realize that there have been good events in the USA, too, like civil rights movements and other changes and good things. I think you are just focusing on the bad things of the USA, plus, the USA is not the only one guilty of those things, too.

I have what is a rather unpopular view of both the USA and the world in general. Most people want to believe that the system is generally fine and that at most we just need to push it back on track when necessary, that when the system breaks you just have to fix it. I, however, don't think that the system is inherently good, and that it's not broken or needs to get back on track, but really that it is working as intended and what we see today is the inevitable result of such a system.
The world could be such a better place than it is now, yet it's not, in part because most people still refuse to even entertain the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with how human civilization has operated. And you cannot begin to fix a problem if you do not even acknowledge that their is a problem or what the problem truly is in the first place.
A lot of the "progress" made over time has not truly been progress, just things that grant the illusion that progress has been made, the oppression becoming more subtle and more manipulative. The things that could be considered baby steps of progress are under constant threat of being undone, like how we lost Roe v Wade a couple of years ago.

and yes, I am aware that the US is hardly the only ****ed up place on the planet

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean, look at it this way: this is very obviously genocide, Israel has never been very subtle about it. And since it is genocide, one of the worst crimes humanity can commit against itself, why hold anything back, why not go all in on condemning it? It's not for a lack of ability to do much about it, as the US is fully capable of putting real pressure on Israel. It can withhold all military aid to Israel, and since the US is Israel's biggest supplier of arms, that would really hurt its ability to wage war. The US could refuse to collaborate with Israeli intelligence agencies, which would have some degree of impact on Israel's war machine. The US could stop vetoing nearly every goddamn UN resolution that wants to do something about what's been happening in Gaza. American media could be taking a stance against the obvious genocide. The US could've been delivering real aid to Palestinians and forcing Israel to accept it.

And yet, we see none of that happening. The US still provides ample support to Israel, it vetoes **** all the time in the UN, and most media organizations are spending their time painting the college protests as inherently antisemitic and that the protests are calling for a second Holocaust, mindlessly repeating the tired old lines about how "Israel has a right to defend itself". The US withdrew its part of of funding from the main relief agency in that region the moment Israel brought up still unsubstantiated claims that UNRWA participated in Hamas' Oct 7 attack.

The US is not doing everything it can to help stop the genocide, and so the only logical conclusion is that it condones the genocide. It's not something you get to be gray about, you're either for it or against it.


Like I said before, it's too little, too late. Construction of a single pier several months after the start of the war when Gaza is and has been facing starvation and a general lack of basic necessities as a direct result of Israeli military action does not constitute meaningful attempts at dealing with the problem. Nevermind that once the aid makes it to the pier, it still has to make its way to people across Gaza, where Israelis might just attack the trucks and/or people trying to get aid anyway ( 1 2 3 ).


Sure, maybe not all the time, but most still lie or twist the truth enough that everyone should not take them at face value. Some are also just more subtle about their biases--ones like Fox News are not subtle about it and that's why it's one of the poster children for biased American news. It's always good to be a little wary and skeptical of any media organization, lest they become propaganda machines instead of journalism institutions. Which, if we're going to bring up the US Civil Rights movement, to quote one of its prominent figures:
"The media’s the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that’s power."
"If you are not careful, the newspaper will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing oppressing."


I have what is a rather unpopular view of both the USA and the world in general. Most people want to believe that the system is generally fine and that at most we just need to push it back on track when necessary, that when the system breaks you just have to fix it. I, however, don't think that the system is inherently good, and that it's not broken or needs to get back on track, but really that it is working as intended and what we see today is the inevitable result of such a system.
The world could be such a better place than it is now, yet it's not, in part because most people still refuse to even entertain the idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with how human civilization has operated. And you cannot begin to fix a problem if you do not even acknowledge that their is a problem or what the problem truly is in the first place.
A lot of the "progress" made over time has not truly been progress, just things that grant the illusion that progress has been made, the oppression becoming more subtle and more manipulative. The things that could be considered baby steps of progress are under constant threat of being undone, like how we lost Roe v Wade a couple of years ago.

and yes, I am aware that the US is hardly the only ****ed up place on the planet

Well, I must admit, you do have some good points here. That said, I wish to say...

Well, as said when I was talking to someone else through PM, this situation is a lot more complicated than it may seem. I mean, even if Biden truly did not support Israel's actions, he is the leader of a country (the USA) that has only one ally in the Middle East, that country being Israel. That said, support or not, it is not like the USA under any president could effectively turn on and completely disavow and disown Israel because of the aforementioned reason about being its ally.

Not many people seem to see that this is not simple, and needless to say, that does not make things any better. Still, the USA is still in a hard place with Israel as of now. Either way, even if this while thing, complex or simple, is not good, I do hope you can see the complexity of this situation, and I think you can as you seem to be the kind of guy who can.

Obviously, the United States is not perfect, or anywhere close to that, and this situation, I say, is not an easy one for presidents like Biden, not that I am defending him, I am just making a point. As said by the person I spoke to through PM, Biden is trying to be sympathetic to those in Gaza while showing solidarity to those who are Jewish in the US. That is no easy job, and I can see Biden lose supporters who are from or support Gaza or are Jewish, maybe a lot, given how hard this is.

I am not trying to change your stance on Biden here, for I am just saying this is a complex situation, and while I would like to say or even wish it were simpler, it is not. And I am aware that Biden has his flaws, which may likely not help in a situation like this.

By the way, if I may ask, even though you don't have to answer, are you from the USA or another location outside the USA? You can refrain from saying which country you are from if you'd like.

 

[Nah]

By the way, if I may ask, even though you don't have to answer, are you from the USA or another location outside the USA? You can refrain from saying which country you are from if you'd like.

I am from the United States yes. Been here my whole life and have never been to another country before.

 

[Sucumbio]

Right now I'm unable to understand President Biden, as if he's missing his bottom lip. It's getting a bit repetitive seeing him like this and wondering when he's gonna fall out on stage. He needs help or at least subtitles.

 

[CannonStreak]

I just thought of something in regards to the Israel thing. It might sound a bit antisemitic, but trust me when I say this is not even supposed to be antisemitic by intention and all.

That said, I understand Biden is losing supporters that are Jewish, as you may have said? I understand this is a complex situation, and there may be more to the story than I, myself know, but those Jewish supporters Biden is losing; they are ceasing to support him because of what is happening in Israel and Gaza. That said, I am not going to generalize the Jews here, but I am going to be talking about the actions of Israel here, especially under the rule of their leader, who has been doing what might as well be called genocide. Here, the country of Israel (but not all the Jews) are doing what is genocide on Gaza, not the other way around, all because of Hamas.

I am not saying Gaza is fully innocent, with Hamas and all, but many people who had nothing to do with Hamas' actions are being killed by the country that is supposed to be attacking just Hamas. Whether Biden is opposed to this or not, I don't think the Jewish people who are in America and are not supporting Biden any longer are siding with the right country here, the one whose actions Biden is opposed to. It is not like Biden is being antisemitic towards Jews by wishing genocide on them or anything like that, at all, and I believe he is doing the best that he can here. But I think the Jewish people in America are leaving Biden for the wrong reasons.

Like I said, there may be more to the story I don't know, but this is my current view here.

I know not all Jews in America are leaving Biden in terms of supporting him, to clarify, I was just focusing on the ones who did stop supporting him.

Also, at this point, Israel is doing much worse than Hamas did so far.

It's a funny thing; Jews were a victim of the genocide that was the Holocaust, yet now, the Jewish country, Israel is doing genocide on the people that are Palestinians. Sure, those two acts of genocide might not be wholly comparable and are not exactly the same thing, but it is funny how Jews are siding with Israel even though they are doing genocidal acts, nonetheless, is it not?

 

[Alicorn]

I feel Biden's selfish choice to continue to send aid to Israel despite knowing full well what Israel is doing will haunt the US and centrist democrats for a long time. The entire appeal of the centrist Democrat is to appear as the rational position between the two extremes, But we are seeing that centrist Democrats are very extreme in their position of supporting Israel to the point of going against common sense. The genocide in Gaza and the naked sneering colonist attitude of the Israel government really shatters the mirror that the Democrats painstakingly pieced together.

I feel someone who isn't well verse in international politics would know what's going on in Gaza is wrong.

Biden has the power to stop this but like many politicians of his irk he only thinks only about his election and getting reelected.

I really hope this one track way of thinking goes the way of the dodo.

I feel America is a victim of a generation who doesn't really understand how politics works in the current day because they are stuck in outdated ways of thinking.

Keep in mind Biden and Nancy were active in politics when Ronald Reagan swept the country back in the 1980s. The wave that was the Reagan Revolution shook Democrats to their cores forcing the party to adopt more right wing positions.

I will be watching the debate but I have a feeling a lot of people feel it will be a repeat of 2020.

 

[CannonStreak]

I’m sorry, but I have to say, what is going on between the US and Israel is more complicated than it seems.

I am sure Biden is not supporting Israel’s actions fully at least, but thing is, Israel is the US’s only ally in the Middle East, meaning they can’t do things like sever the ties it has to Israel or turn on it altogether. Plus, I have seen the US under Biden try to support Gaza as well. It is not like they are isolating or ignoring Gaza in all this. Like I said, this is a complex situation.

Still, while politicians can be disliked, it is not like Trump would be better with the Israel thing given the type of person he is, and it is not like he is better for the country overall.

That said, you can’t just not support a presidential candidate or even president for one reason, and while whatever happens may affect the US, and as bad as it is, Israel’s actions in Gaza, even while big, is still a separate thing mainly to what happens to the American people inside the US, as there are more things that affect US citizens than an overseas war. I don’t think what is happening overseas, again, as bad as it is, can’t have much impact as other things in American politics and to the American people.

What I am trying to say is while you are free to not like Biden if you want, you can’t just use an overseas war…ALONE, as a reason to not vote for a guy or not hope he gets re-elected, especially since so much is as stake since the Republican nominee is Trump, who would be worse for this country than Biden by many times, and what Trump is planning if he gets re-elected is not good.

Aside from those of other parties, we don’t have much in terms of who gets to be president to choose from, and while what is going on in Israel and Gaza is bad, it is still a complicated situation for the US, and since it is not as big of thing as other political things for the people in the US, I don’t think what happens in Gaza alone, unless combined with other bad reasons a president does, will be important enough to determine who one picks as president, been though it is still a factor, but other things must be considered, too.

EDIT: Plus, that aside, I don't think it is fair to hold Biden, president of the United States, responsible for what happens in another part of the world that mainly involves two countries that neither one he is able to control. He can only do the best that he can, since he is not the one responsible for killing those in Gaza here. I think it is irrational to hold Biden responsible for what is happening over there, and many more people, like those in the house and senate, were involved in making the bill that gives Israel aid, happen. I also don't think it is fair to hold Biden as the single responsible person involved in this aid just because he is president when the United States is more complicated than the word of a person who is president.

 

[Alicorn]

Trump isn't winning the election. Anyone who thinks Trump has a chance to beat Biden wasn't paying attention to how Trump won in 2016. There was low voter turn out, voter suppression and most importantly the Candidate never held office, any office so voters assumed Trump would take a different path. The naiveté of 2016 is not there. Trump is no longer a dark horse candidate. We have better insight than we did back then.

You also have to consider the conviction that Trump got. The felony is an anvil around his neck and its one of many to come. If a voter is willing to overlook the amount of legal troubles Trump is in its safe to assume that the voter wasn't going to vote for Biden from the outset. Not that it matters because Trump's base is shrinking and they are not enough to get him to the finish line. If the American people are dumb enough to overlook 9 years of coverage that would have sunk any other politician's career then we frankly deserve Trump again and any punches that comes from his new administration we should take with open arms.

America has to care what happens outside its borders. We got this way because there are many of us that still cling to the rather anti-sematic belief that Israel is the only safe place for the Jewish people. Its not and my jar hit the floor when I heard Biden say that Israel was the only safe place for them or god forbid "The only Democracy in the middle east" We are treating Israel as if its a US colony. Heck not even Puerto Rico gets that kind of aid from the US Government.


What is going on in Gaza is hurting the US on the world stage. How are we suppose to stand up to China or Russia when we have this medal of shame around our necks? It will take decades to wash off this stench if not a century.

 

[CannonStreak]

Trump isn't winning the election. Anyone who thinks Trump has a chance to beat Biden wasn't paying attention to how Trump won in 2016. There was low voter turn out, voter suppression and most importantly the Candidate never held office, any office so voters assumed Trump would take a different path. The naiveté of 2016 is not there. Trump is no longer a dark horse candidate. We have better insight than we did back then.

You also have to consider the conviction that Trump got. The felony is an anvil around his neck and its one of many to come. If a voter is willing to overlook the amount of legal troubles Trump is in its safe to assume that the voter wasn't going to vote for Biden from the outset. Not that it matters because Trump's base is shrinking and they are not enough to get him to the finish line. If the American people are dumb enough to overlook 9 years of coverage that would have sunk any other politician's career then we frankly deserve Trump again and any punches that comes from his new administration we should take with open arms.

America has to care what happens outside its borders. We got this way because there are many of us that still cling to the rather anti-sematic belief that Israel is the only safe place for the Jewish people. Its not and my jar hit the floor when I heard Biden say that Israel was the only safe place for them or god forbid "The only Democracy in the middle east" We are treating Israel as if its a US colony. Heck not even Puerto Rico gets that kind of aid from the US Government.


What is going on in Gaza is hurting the US on the world stage. How are we suppose to stand up to China or Russia when we have this medal of shame around our necks? It will take decades to wash off this stench if not a century.

I appreciate what you said about Trump. Now, with that said, I do understand that the United States does have to care about international affairs. After all, I did not say that Israel was the least thing to worry about. In fact, I meant far from it, it is important. I just thought that there are other things to consider, but we will count those as irrelevant now for probably already clear reasons.

I honestly don't know what you want Biden to do, since he can't control Israel's actions after all. About the aid thing to Israel, though, was that not including Ukraine and another country? Either way, many more people were involved in the bill that either supported those countries or just Israel. Too many to name, of course, BUT the house and senate passed the bill before Biden signed it. I don't know if you are saying something like this, but it is not right or fair to say Biden was wholly responsible for one bill alone.

Plus, as I said, the situation is more complicated than you think, since Israel, as said before, Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is an ally of the United States. Of course, that does not mean even the USA should support the country's actions, but the USA can't just full-on disown them and sever their alliance, either. I mean, the Middle East, without Israel is an ally, is not going to go easy on or be welcoming to the United States, since the United States has a lot of hate from the other countries in that area. Whatever the case, this is not a simple situation to solve or get out of.

Think whatever you want to think, Alicorn, you are free to do so. However, I don't believe Biden supports Israel completely as you implied, and that some of what you said about him and Israel is exaggerated. I also don't think it is fair to blame him for things going on in another country that he has little to no control of.

I will say this though; I do like Biden, but he is old. For that reason, if it were up to me, I would have chosen someone other than him to run against Trump in 2020.

 

[Nah]

I'm kinda only touching on these two parts because I think that what I've said in the past more or less covers the rest, but

I am sure Biden is not supporting Israel’s actions fully at least, but thing is, Israel is the US’s only ally in the Middle East, meaning they can’t do things like sever the ties it has to Israel or turn on it altogether.

That said, you can’t just not support a presidential candidate or even president for one reason, and while whatever happens may affect the US, and as bad as it is, Israel’s actions in Gaza, even while big, is still a separate thing mainly to what happens to the American people inside the US, as there are more things that affect US citizens than an overseas war. I don’t think what is happening overseas, again, as bad as it is, can’t have much impact as other things in American politics and to the American people.

Why bother having an ally if said ally has been committing genocide and apartheid for decades? What could really be the possible redeeming feature that makes it tolerable? Why is a Middle East ally so important?

And while maybe it doesn't directly affect Americans in the same way it does the people living in Israel and Gaza, there's still the matter of the increase in both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia the US has seen since Oct 7. More than that, if the country's government is so willing to support a genocide, what do you think that implies about what they're willing to do to those of us here in the U.S.?

Trump isn't winning the election. Anyone who thinks Trump has a chance to beat Biden wasn't paying attention to how Trump won in 2016. There was low voter turn out, voter suppression and most importantly the Candidate never held office, any office so voters assumed Trump would take a different path. The naiveté of 2016 is not there. Trump is no longer a dark horse candidate. We have better insight than we did back then.

I think it's a bit dangerous to be confident in the idea that Trump absolutely cannot ever again get a second term. While yes, he's given people over the past several years reason to not vote for him, so has Biden, who didn't exactly win in 2020 because he was such a stellar candidate.

And regardless, there's still very much the chance that, in the event Trump does not win, it's not unlikely that we'll see a repeat of Jan 6th, except probably worse this time. Fascists didn't write Project 2025 just so they could not implement it.

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm kinda only touching on these two parts because I think that what I've said in the past more or less covers the rest, but

Why bother having an ally if said ally has been committing genocide and apartheid for decades? What could really be the possible redeeming feature that makes it tolerable? Why is a Middle East ally so important?

And while maybe it doesn't directly affect Americans in the same way it does the people living in Israel and Gaza, there's still the matter of the increase in both anti-Semitism and Islamophobia the US has seen since Oct 7. More than that, if the country's government is so willing to support a genocide, what do you think that implies about what they're willing to do to those of us here in the U.S.?

And how do you "know" they are supporting a genocide? Because of an aid bill? As I said before, the USA, under Biden, has been trying to help those in Gaza too, and from what I have read, Biden is more so against what Israel is doing. It may be hard to help Gaza now since that pier where support comes in is damaged by rough seas, but still; you cannot call that supporting genocide, can you not? The problem is, though, that there are many involved with the US government, from congress (Senate and House) to the Oval Office. People have different opinions, and republicans (but not limited to republicans) have criticized Biden and his stance about Israel's current actions. With so much difference in opinions, it should be hard to take one person into account for everything. Not to mention, handling Israel in a situation like this is not an easy, simple thing for the US because of the alliance thing.

As for the ally thing, remember how Biden had to rebuild things, alliance wise, with other countries after he won the 2020 election after Trump's term? We don't want the US to be isolated and not have allies at all to help us when help is needed, and since as I said, the rest of the Middle East is basically non-friendly towards the USA, Israel is the only one that sticks out out of all countries that is willing to be an ally of the United States. Basically, it is good to have allies anywhere you can, and it is hard to let go of Israel since no one else is there in the Middle East to go to for when the US needs help. It is not going to be easy for the USA to let go of the alliance with Israel, that is why it is complicated. It is like how friends have one another's backs.

As for the Anti-Semitism and Islamophobia, people are just being stupid. I doubt they have looked into the whole thing and I am sure that what they see in all this is surface level. That is what mostly the people of the United States (that may include some of the government, too) are doing, and unlike the government, the people do not have much control over things, let alone much knowledge. They just generalize instead of realizing who to really blame. I don't think many people are being reasonable as they should be, and they may come to their own, incorrect conclusions. If anything, the people are just being as bad as Israel killing those in Gaza.

But many people are doing that on their own accord, not because Israel made them do it. Even the US government did not make them do it, so you can't blame others like the US government for what people do on their own.

 

[Alicorn]

If Biden really wanted to help Gazans he would condition the aid and demand Israel end the block aid. Israelis have said that Biden has a lot of power at the table he just refuses to use it. This lack of forcefulness is what's emboldening the Israelis to carry out their plans in Gaza. The Israeli prime minister was so arrogant that he stated on live tv that he only wants "Some" of the hostages back. Reinforcing that the hostages were never the goal. It wasn't until Biden called him out did the Israeli prime minister walk back his controversial comments. Showing that Biden does have weight to throw around at the negotiating table.

The Middle east isn't friendly towards the US because we spent 20 years conducting wars in the region both of which were based on a misguided lie. The lie was so bad that even those who supported the invasion of Iraq like the host of Morning Joe later called the war stupid and it being a bad idea.

Nah is right. What is the point of allying ourselves with a country that is pretty much Apartheid South Africa 2.0?

The reports are so bad coming out of Gaza it would make you cry. Like seriously its unreal how brutal Israel is being over there.

 

[CannonStreak]

What kind of power is Biden supposed to have over a nation whose leader and actions he can't control? Plus, I am sure the rest of the Middle East has hated the United States from long before, from 9/11, that attack on the US Embassy in Iran, plus more. I don't think wars based on a lie (does anyone have a source for that?) are the only reason for the Middle East hating the US. I am sure the hate was long before any wars happened. Plus, in the case of the Iraqi war, that was done by a republican president named George Bush, and Biden had nothing to do with that.

I am starting to feel you are really exaggerating things, Alicorn. Even if Biden did try to stop the aid block from Israel, Israel would have to do some cooperation, as Biden does not have control over Israel's leader. Plus, Biden does not have as much power as you are saying, as he can only do so much.