Social Disciples of Dark Samus

[Diem]

but she's not human either. There isn't a woman inside that armor

But she is a being that is partially made from Samus's DNA. Which is why Dark Samus is referred to as "she," instead of "it" like Metroid Prime was. She's not entirely human, but biologically, she's female.

 

[Aetheri]

but she's not human either. There isn't a woman inside that armor

You don't have to be a human woman to be female...

Dark Samus is genetically female because of Samus's DNA hence the female pronouns.

 

[Shog]

I also thought all Metroids are female because they all can reproduce without male specimen (Parthenogenesis)
Since Metroid Prime is both, Metroid and (female) Samus, it makes the most sense to consider it female.

 

[slamallama]

but she's not human either. There isn't a woman inside that armor

Some people argue that it's an 'it' because it's basically the Metroid Prime possessing the Phazon Suit (unless Metroids are all female) Other people argue she has Samus' DNA too, making her female.

I just say 'she' cause it's less confusing.

 

[Diem]

I also thought all Metroids are female because they all can reproduce without male specimen (Parthenogenesis)
Since Metroid Prime is both, Metroid and (female) Samus, it makes the most sense to consider it female.

Well, animals are often referred to as "it", so if Metroid Prime/other Metroids are referred to as such, that would make sense. But Dark Samus is more than that, being a much more intelligent being composed of Samus's DNA as well, so she's referred to as, well "she".

Some people argue that it's an 'it' because it's basically the Metroid Prime possessing the Phazon Suit (unless Metroids are all female) Other people argue she has Samus' DNA too, making her female.

I just say 'she' cause it's less confusing.

It shouldn't even be an argument. Every single piece of official information refers to Dark Samus as "she" or "her". The only time she was ever referred to as "it" was on the Smash Blog, but that was later corrected back to "she" and "her".

There is no evidence or reason to call her "it". Dark Samus is not Metroid Prime just jammed into the Phazon Suit. It's a completely new, reborn entity. Hence the pronoun difference.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Dunno if anyone else has already pointed this out, but look at the 3:50 mark on this video:

Now check a look at this (specifically around the 0:40 mark):

 

[meleebrawler]

Dunno if anyone else has already pointed this out, but look at the 3:50 mark on this video:

Now check a look at this (specifically around the 0:40 mark):

I've heard people say they miss the toes, but that claw is more than enough.

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Dark Samus's alt colors are pretty amazing.

 

[Sin Slash]

With more gameplay out of Dark Samus, do we know more as to how different she is from Samus? Aside from the animations, or course.

 

[Aetheri]

With more gameplay out of Dark Samus, do we know more as to how different she is from Samus? Aside from the animations, or course.

Aside from animations and different rolls she's got electric properties on her phazon attacks (except bombs and missiles which are still fire) which means slightly more stun on those attacks, which could mean slightly better combo potential on moves like fair and charge shot.

Not much else is different.

Not sure about her atrributes but from what I heard she's statistically the same as Samus.

 

[Crystanium]

I think the golden Dark Samus is based after Mogenar.

 

[IsmaR]

My initial thought was that the gold/blue visor was supposed to be Golden Torizo.

 

[Crystanium]

My initial thought was that the gold/blue visor was supposed to be Golden Torizo.

I thought the same thing after I thought of Mogenar, but as I said in the Talk page for "Alternate costume (SSBU)" at SmashWiki, it's probably unlikely, since Golden Torizo didn't make an appearance in the Metroid Prime trilogy.

It's good to see you again, IsmaR! I hope we can play some matches for SSBU like we did in SSBB.

 

[Diem]

I think it might also be a counterpart to Ridley's gold color scheme. So for some reason, both the Metroid villains get gold color schemes. Ridley got one because of his statue in Super Metroid, but I guess Dark Samus got one... just to fit in?

I'd love to see it in action so we can get a better idea of it. Golden Ridley actually looks shiny, like they even gave him a different shader or something. Gold Dark Samus might look ugly in-game.

 

[slamallama]

I think the golden Dark Samus is based after Mogenar.

Could be, though Mogenar's color scheme in turn seems to be based off the general color scheme of the Leviathan interiors

I think it might also be a counterpart to Ridley's gold color scheme. So for some reason, both the Metroid villains get gold color schemes. Ridley got one because of his statue in Super Metroid, but I guess Dark Samus got one... just to fit in?

I'd love to see it in action so we can get a better idea of it. Golden Ridley actually looks shiny, like they even gave him a different shader or something. Gold Dark Samus might look ugly in-game.

There are lots of fighters who have gold alts that don't correspond to anything in their games, it could simply be for variety

 

[Crystanium]

Could be, though Mogenar's color scheme in turn seems to be based off the general color scheme of the Leviathan interiors

I don't see it.

 

[slamallama]

I don't see it.

It's a really subdued, pale goldish color with orange and blue Phazon highlighting it

 

[Garo]

Some Dark Samus 1v1 gameplay:

You can see her 3rd victory pose at 8:37.

Regarding the alts, if you assume there to be some sort of theming, I'd think the yellow one would be in reference to the X-parasite. Few others bring to mind some of the hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters, but the quality isn't the best and I'm colourblind so maybe I'm just seeing it wrong.
E: Another 1v1 with perhaps a more favourable matchup:

 

[meleebrawler]

Some Dark Samus 1v1 gameplay:

You can see her 3rd victory pose at 8:37.

Regarding the alts, if you assume there to be some sort of theming, I'd think the yellow one would be in reference to the X-parasite. Few others bring to mind some of the hunters from Metroid Prime Hunters, but the quality isn't the best and I'm colourblind so maybe I'm just seeing it wrong.
E: Another 1v1 with perhaps a more favourable matchup:

Wow, look at her pummel, she pretty much clobbers them in the face.

 

[Izanagi97]

Aside from animations and different rolls she's got electric properties on her phazon attacks (except bombs and missiles which are still fire) which means slightly more stun on those attacks, which could mean slightly better combo potential on moves like fair and charge shot.

Not much else is different.

Not sure about her atrributes but from what I heard she's statistically the same as Samus.

Most I could tell is that her projectiles seem to inflict more damage than Samus's (could just be the 1v1 multiplier, but I don't know if meter disables it)

 

[Varia31]

So that's all three victory animations, and no cackle. Oh well... One neat detail that someone in the comments pointed out was that you could see her eyes glowing inside the visor when the camera freezes on her head.

 

[slamallama]

So that's all three victory animations, and no cackle. Oh well... One neat detail that someone in the comments pointed out was that you could see her eyes glowing inside the visor when the camera freezes on her head.

We've still only seen two of her taunts. There is hope for the cackle!

 

[meleebrawler]

We've still only seen two of her taunts. There is hope for the cackle!

The chances seem pretty low, considering this Dark Samus seems based much more on her appearance in Corruption than in Echoes, and she is much less prone to laughing in that game.

Still, maybe one of her taunts actually has the laugh without the typical motion and no one has heard it yet. It is pretty tough to notice amidst a bunch of noise.

 

[Aetheri]

We've still only seen two of her taunts. There is hope for the cackle!

Technically we have seen 3 taunts from her, although it's possible two are the same taunt with different animations depending on which way she's facing.

There's her spin (as seen in my signature, from her smash website character trailer)

Her straight stance (when her and Ridley tag team Samus in her trailer)

And her crouch when the Samuses compare Super missiles, once again this could be a variant of her second taunt since she grabs her arm cannon in both taunts, but at the same time that could also be all of her taunts that we've seen.

 

[Crystanium]

I'd love to see it in action so we can get a better idea of it. Golden Ridley actually looks shiny, like they even gave him a different shader or something. Gold Dark Samus might look ugly in-game.

It turns out golden Dark Samus looks gorgeous. Too bad that nemo player wasn't doing too well. One thing that's been noticeable is that after Dark Samus uses Screw Attack, she kind of bounces off the ground once she lands. This seems like it's going to be a disadvantage.

 

[Pikmin-ism42]

Some Dark Samus 1v1 gameplay:

You can see her 3rd victory pose at 8:37.

I might be reaching here, but could that victory pose possibly be a reference to this?

Spoiler

 

[Diem]

Y'know, in her 3rd victory pose that's above, there is a cackle in the video or something. I can't tall if it's from Dark Samus or some crazy person at the event, though.

I've heard people say they miss the toes, but that claw is more than enough.

While it would be nice to have her Prime 2 design as well, I have to say I'm kind of glad it's not here for now. We've already had some of the goth fetishists taking the character in disturbing directions, we don't need the legion of foot fetishists to show up, too. They've got Corrin, they don't need Dark Samus.

The chances seem pretty low, considering this Dark Samus seems based much more on her appearance in Corruption than in Echoes, and she is much less prone to laughing in that game.

Still, maybe one of her taunts actually has the laugh without the typical motion and no one has heard it yet. It is pretty tough to notice amidst a bunch of noise.

This was my fear as well. Since she's very much based on only one of her appearances, elements from the other appearance are neglected. That's probably why she doesn't ever materialize from Phazon particles like she does all the time in Prime 2, but instead has that weird portal entrance. It's possible no one on the dev team played Prime 2 or bothered to look up footage of it and just went with the most recent appearance.

Though her "portal" entrance and some of her effects having black tendrils are reminiscent of the Ing from Prime 2. Either that's what's going on, or it's a coincidence and the team just went with "dark" effects that ended up bearing a resemblance.

But yes, we don't have any clear audio of things yet, so there's always a chance. If we don't get it, though, it's not going to be the end of the world. We'll have a mod for it in due time.

It turns out golden Dark Samus looks gorgeous. Too bad that nemo player wasn't doing too well. One thing that's been noticeable is that after Dark Samus uses Screw Attack, she kind of bounces off the ground once she lands. This seems like it's going to be a disadvantage.

Yeah, saw that last night, but was too busy to mention it. It was hard to tell, due to the footage being recorded offscreen, but I really noticed it in the victory screen. So glad that it looks nice, like Ridley's. I'll definitely be using it as one of my choice alternative colors. The fact that her visor and other parts remain blue to make it more of a definite gold version, as opposed to changing those to yellow or something, makes it so much nicer. Video games have trained me to like the gold versions of things (James Bond, Animal Crossing, etc.).

I was afraid it'd look garish, like Samus in Other M.

I think that bounce is just part of the animation. Pretty sure it won't be any more advantageous or disadvantageous as Samus's, much like the roll and other animations.

 

[Crystanium]

Yeah, saw that last night, but was too busy to mention it. It was hard to tell, due to the footage being recorded offscreen, but I really noticed it in the victory screen. So glad that it looks nice, like Ridley's. I'll definitely be using it as one of my choice alternative colors. The fact that her visor and other parts remain blue to make it more of a definite gold version, as opposed to changing those to yellow or something, makes it so much nicer. Video games have trained me to like the gold versions of things (James Bond, Animal Crossing, etc.).

I was afraid it'd look garish, like Samus in Other M.

I think that bounce is just part of the animation. Pretty sure it won't be any more advantageous or disadvantageous as Samus's, much like the roll and other animations.

Yeah. Yellow lighting would probably make the distinction difficult to notice, since gold is a shade of yellow. I'd say that color is the golden standard. My brother tells me not to worry about what color other people may use and to just enjoy whatever color I prefer. I suppose I just want to separate myself from what's common.

 

[Diem]

GUESS WHAT: Nintendo's having a "Nintendo Switch Holiday Experience" event starting this Saturday at 11 different malls around the country. One of them is right by where I live--it even had a Summer of Play event last year. So I'll go there and try out Dark Samus, for sure.

I'd like to go and compare her to Samus, so we can finally get some form of data, but I don't know how to do that effectively in a 4-player game under pressure. Any suggestions?

Yeah. Yellow lighting would probably make the distinction difficult to notice, since gold is a shade of yellow. I'd say that color is the golden standard. My brother tells me not to worry about what color other people may use and to just enjoy whatever color I prefer. I suppose I just want to separate myself from what's common.

Even if there were no alt colors I'd be happy with just the default. When you finally get the character you desperately want, things like alt colors don't matter nearly as much.

Since everyone else seems enamored with all the other alt colors, but I'm not, it's not something I'm worrying about personally. I mostly only play with friends and family, anyways, and none of them care about the characters I do, so it works out.

 

[meleebrawler]

Here's a thought: what if Metroid Prime was a boss in World Of Light? Gamexplain has noticed a huge crater in the south, imagine if that was the Impact Crater? And once Prime is beaten, a Phazon Suit spirit floats by and it absorbs it to become Dark Samus again, whereupon you either fight or recruit her.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I'm just hoping Dark Samus will be at least mid tier. Would suck after this long wait, for her not to even be that viable. I'd like to be able to main her, but there seems to be a negative air around Samus and Dark Samus in Ultimate.

 

[7 or 7]

Dark Samus's alt colors are pretty amazing.

View attachment 176204

The gold one is glorious

 

[Syntherios]

Yeah, that Direct was a bloodbath. One we should've seen coming, really, but... Shadow? Shadow didn't make it as an Echo Fighter? But Dark Samus did? What world am I living in? Was there a glitch with my ballot entry where it somehow split into thousands of dark echo entries and tricked Sakurai into thinking there's greater demand for the character than there actually is?

I managed to take a screengrab of the "Who are you most excited for?" poll in the huge general discussion thread right before they changed it:

Dark Samus is in dead last. Shadow would probably be way more popular than Chrom or Daisy. Yet somehow he's still an Assist Trophy. AND we got Ridley, too.

That poll was a depressing joke. The most powerful villain in the Metroid universe beaten out by a Peach color swap and some dog secretary thing.

 

[ChronoBound]

That poll was a depressing joke. The most powerful villain in the Metroid universe beaten out by a Peach color swap and some dog secretary thing.

If it means anything, Dark Samus usually does far better on polls where it is just the echoes. Lots of Ridley and K. Rool fans love her, and think she is the coolest of the echoes, even alongside other "cool" echoes like Richter and Ken.

 

[Diem]

Here's a thought: what if Metroid Prime was a boss in World Of Light? Gamexplain has noticed a huge crater in the south, imagine if that was the Impact Crater? And once Prime is beaten, a Phazon Suit spirit floats by and it absorbs it to become Dark Samus again, whereupon you either fight or recruit her.

Huh, that'd actually be really awesome. Metroid Prime would also work really well as a boss in a Smash game. Impact Crater is actually somewhat reasonable, since the first Metroid Prime game is really the only one Nintendo seems to acknowledge very concretely (outside of Dark Samus, of course), and Metroid probably would have an area on the map. Though I'd be surprised if that area wasn't some part of Zebes, since 3 or 4 of the Metroid games take place there for one reason or another.

I doubt Dark Samus would get any pomp or flair to her recruitment in Spirits, at least not any more than any other fighter. But hey, Sakurai told us to use our imagination.

I'm just hoping Dark Samus will be at least mid tier. Would suck after this long wait, for her not to even be that viable. I'd like to be able to main her, but there seems to be a negative air around Samus and Dark Samus in Ultimate.

From the way things look, Samus (and by extension Dark Samus) are still at the bottom of the barrel. It's bizarre that Samus has been one of the most consistently troubled fighters since the series began, yet they've never adjusted her moveset or anything to make her better. Hopefully, since this game is taking balancing even more seriously than Smash 4, we'll get some good buffs down the line.

Meanwhile, one of my brother's mains, Pikachu, seems to be the best character in the game, and his other characters, Simon and Mewtwo, are seemingly top tier as well. This is gonna be an uphill battle.

That poll was a depressing joke. The most powerful villain in the Metroid universe beaten out by a Peach color swap and some dog secretary thing.

Eh, I enjoy it. It means that those of us who go out and play Dark Samus will be more unique, rather than being characters a bunch of people will play for one reason or another.

I feel kind of bad for the Bayonetta and Cloud fans who were elated to have their characters in Smash, only for them to be way too good, so they're both constantly played and hated by a lot of players due to their balancing. Imagine the heartbreak for some people who voted for Bayonetta in the ballot, got their wish, and now the hate's gotten so bad that she's getting booed at tournaments and during the E3 Direct when she was spotlighted.

So if Dark Samus isn't very popular and isn't outstanding competitively, cool. That means I can play her and it'll stand out, and when I see other people play her, I'll know that those people know what's up. Or at least they think she's just cool after having just been introduced to the character, which is also a win.

If it means anything, Dark Samus usually does far better on polls where it is just the echoes. Lots of Ridley and K. Rool fans love her, and think she is the coolest of the echoes, even alongside other "cool" echoes like Richter and Ken.

Yeah, I was actually surprised by how well-received Dark Samus has been, even in her announcement. I was worried that Metroid's lack of overall popularity would make people dislike that it got another character, but because Dark Samus's appearance and aesthetics in this game were done so damn well, everyone seems to like the character. Rather than people going "Who the hell is this, why isn't this Impa" or something, everyone is seemingly impressed by Dark Samus and there's been no issues.

A worry of mine, especially leading up to the Direct last week, was that once the roster was confirmed and people started looking inward to complain about the characters they don't like because they took a spot that another character could've taken, as always happens, Dark Samus would be one of the first to get complained about, given that Metroid already got Ridley, Metroid isn't a hugely commercially successful series, and she's from two games from over a decade ago that have mostly faded from public consciousness.

Thankfully, Piranha Plant came in and became the lightning rod of hate for everyone, overshadowing even Incineroar's appearance, so I haven't seen anyone bemoan Dark Samus yet.

 

[meleebrawler]

From the way things look, Samus (and by extension Dark Samus) are still at the bottom of the barrel. It's bizarre that Samus has been one of the most consistently troubled fighters since the series began, yet they've never adjusted her moveset or anything to make her better. Hopefully, since this game is taking balancing even more seriously than Smash 4, we'll get some good buffs down the line.

Meanwhile, one of my brother's mains, Pikachu, seems to be the best character in the game, and his other characters, Simon and Mewtwo, are seemingly top tier as well. This is gonna be an uphill battle.

Well, if you think the word of those who forget she can charge in the air (or even use it at all), beieve Dark Samus has a vastly superior roll just because of an animation change or think dash attack combos are still the way to go are to be taken seriously...

It only takes one solid performance to prove that a character isn't fundamentally flawed: . And from what I can see, this Samus is edging ever closer to being like that one, whether through direct changes (contact bombs, more useful missiles) or indirect (weaker airdodges make landing Charge Shots easier).

 

[Aetheri]

As awesome as it would be for Metroid Prime to be a WOL boss, I'm actually banking on Kraid being a boss in the game since he's got a shiny new model to go with the return of Brinstar Depths. To this day Kraid's only 3D appearances have been in Smash (and Nintendoland but I hardly count a giant robot that resembles Kraid to actually be Kraid), so putting him more in the spotlight can give him some wider recognition. (I also wonder if he'll make an appearance in MP4?)

A Kraid boss fight to go with unlocking Ridley in the game would be awesome. I doubt there'll be many series that get more than one boss outside of Mario/Pokemon/Zelda. I know Metroid technically had two bosses in SSE but that was mainly because of how popular Ridley was rather than the series.

 

[TheKingOfEvil2014]

That poll was a depressing joke. The most powerful villain in the Metroid universe beaten out by a Peach color swap and some dog secretary thing.

I'm sure that more people would've voted for Dark Samus if Ridley hadn't been in the poll. I see many people unfamiliar with the character say she looks cool, so I guess Ridley's presence just overshadowed her. I myself voted for Ridley.

As awesome as it would be for Metroid Prime to be a WOL boss, I'm actually banking on Kraid being a boss in the game since he's got a shiny new model to go with the return of Brinstar Depths. To this day Kraid's only 3D appearances have been in Smash (and Nintendoland but I hardly count a giant robot that resembles Kraid to actually be Kraid), so putting him more in the spotlight can give him some wider recognition. (I also wonder if he'll make an appearance in MP4?)

A Kraid boss fight to go with unlocking Ridley in the game would be awesome. I doubt there'll be many series that get more than one boss outside of Mario/Pokemon/Zelda. I know Metroid technically had two bosses in SSE but that was mainly because of how popular Ridley was rather than the series.

I would really love Kraid as a boss. I was bummed a bit when I heard he was scrapped from the first Prime. A 3D Kraid battle would've been awesome.

 

[CardiganBoy]

I think we are selling ourselves too short, don't forget Sakurai mentioned that Dark Samus was a highly requested character.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I'll admit, even if I can't main Dark Samus competitively due to the low tier status, and potentially campy playstyle, at least there are some characters that I've been looking at that look a lot better than they used to. Even if all that fails, I know my will be solid, sure, but I'd love to represent the one character on my most wanted list that I advocated for and actually DID make it into this game.