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Dirtiest Player in the Game - Wario Social Thread

TheReflexWonder

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That's not what I was talking about. It's that thing where you can do a recovery move or a jump and it takes you right to the ledge.



I disagree. Anyone can combo off the edge, and "just staying away from the edge" isn't as simple as you make it sound, especially on stages like BF and YS. If you can force an SD at a low percentage, it should take more skill to do so than doing a basic recovery.



Even then, the things they took out that wouldn't have conflicted with Melee heavily outweighs the things that they left in. I'm just going to leave this here, because I've been on these forums long enough to know that this would turn into a "list literally everything or you lose" situation very fast.



Oh, yeah, Snake, and also...

The other ones that didn't have theirs weakened didn't have good recoveries in the first place.



There are two major problems with this argument. The first is that you are completely ignoring the difference in reward between gimping and recovering. Recovering is getting back on the stage, in this case at a low percentage where you would not normally be KO'd, whereas gimping is forcing a SD at a low percentage. Forgive me if I'm crazy for thinking that the former is way less rewarding than the latter. The second is that you are implying that whoever is losing deserves to lose immediately. If this is true, then why isn't Smash like fencing or MvC where you lose on the first hit? Why aren't we playing at 300% handicaps?



You are completely wrong about Ultra's and people really need to stop with the whole "if the loser isn't a hobo then the game is giving them too much" mentality, but I won't go into the former for fear of total derailment and I already went into the latter.



Those are nice, but most of those are very minor and don't even come close to making up for what they took out. I'd rather have a shield destroyer than a slow-*** ***, I'd rather be able to hold them for longer and possibly get a gimp setup (that I would have to skillfully edgeguard to earn) than be able to throw behind me, and I would definitely rather be able to not die at 40% than have a stupid elbow charge that isn't even close to as effective. The little frame buffs are cool and I like those, but they're worthless without what makes Wario good in the first place.



Then why did they do it? They claimed that they were "answering the prayers" of people who wanted him to use his Wario Land moves, but I can't entirely believe that they're that scrubby. Why would they take away the defensive aerial parts of a character that was designed to be in a defensive aerial game? No idea.
Oh, ledgesnap. Yeah, ledgesnapping isn't a thing because it takes away the precision necessary with sweetspotting the ledge. If you aim your recovery well, you won't need a ledgesnap. The area you can grab the ledge is large enough to avoid grounded retaliation if you aim well. You can't normally grab the ledge when your back is facing it, but, at the very least, Wario can do it during his helpless fall animation.

Some characters aren't as efficient as others, just like some characters aren't as efficient at comboing vertically, just like some characters aren't as efficient at using platforms for comboing and tech chasing. Everyone is different.

What does it matter? They were using Melee as a basis, and many of the Melee-related mechanics don't actively give the middle finger to Brawl--Of course it's going to have a lot of Melee stuff.

Mario got his Down-B recovery from Melee improved. Luigi can store his Melee Forward-B, allowing him to recover with incredible ease. Ganondorf got his Down-B jump recovery from Melee back but doesn't automatically suicide when he Forward-Bs someone, and he still gets the uppercut on a whiffed Up-B. Falcon's Up-B has a bigger range where he can grab the ledge, he gets his Down-B jump recovery from Melee, and Forward-B lets him grab the ledge now. ROB's Up-B is much more unpredictable and doesn't allow him to avoid all combat by flying under the stage. Charizard's jumps go higher. Lucario's Up-B can hit people. There are plenty of useful and improved recoveries in this game.

It's the game's place to say where you are in a more advantaged or disadvantaged position, so I can't say whether or not recovery should be easy or not. However, all I'm saying is that people should see results for putting in effort.

Gaining a desperation move for getting the snot beat out of you is just questionable balance. It's not necessarily that the winning player should gain better options than the losing player, but, why not just leave it alone or give both characters that move from the start?

P:M Wario's D-Air functions well as a combo-starter, especially when we throw footstooling into the mix. Wario Land wouldn't be the same without a Ground Pound (though that totally could've been his new Down-B), so it was added to the mix. Brawl Chomp is a mediocre move that doesn't really set up for anything, whereas P:M's Chomp regularly deals 13 damage and sets up for tech chasing pretty well. The frame buffs just aid in his new playstyle. We have different (though seemingly less effective) frame traps now. We're still good at edgeguarding. Our recovery isn't atrocious. You're really blowing his negatives out of proportion.

It's difficult to design an aerial character with Melee physics without making them centralize around a single tactic. Look at Jigglypuff--Wall of Pain, insta-kill Rest, able to stuff aerials with her own moves. They're not just out to ruin Wario's viability because he was a good character in Brawl.
 

Dr. R.O.Botnik

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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I don't really feel like arguing and I think you guys get the point of what I'm saying, so I'll try changing the subject.

How about that new Wario game they announced at E3?

Oh wait...:sadsheep:
 

Labernash

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Wario Land 3 vs. 4... thought?

I think I'm a three guy. Liked the exploration of the overworld and revisiting new areas of old worlds, plus the skill progression was pretty fun.

Initially hated 4's time limit stuff but warmed up to it a bit.
It's close, but I like 3 a bit betterr than 4. My Wario Land games in order:
1. Wario Land 2
2. Wario Land 3/Wario Land: Shake It
3. Wario Land 4
4. Wario Land

But, my all time favorite Wario game might be Wario World. Just sort, though. As Far as WarioWare, I like Touched a lot. DIY is pretty cool too. But I always go for Yellow/Purple overalls in Smash. I've always LOVED Wario. Mario Kart, Mario Party, Mario Tennis, etc. When I was little, I used the Wario Colored Mario in Smash 64 and Melee.



I'm soooo pumped for this. I interested in why they called it Game & Wario, and not WarioWare. They may implement some Mr. Game and Watch. He had a cameo in the menus of WarioWare touched, maybe they make him Co-star, or something like that.


LOOOOVING the activity in the Social!!
 

xzx

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G&W = Game & Watch; Game & Wario.

Yeah, I hope G&W will have a role in this game.
 

CRODD

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Nov 24, 2011
Messages
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Wario Land 3 vs. 4... thought?

I think I'm a three guy. Liked the exploration of the overworld and revisiting new areas of old worlds, plus the skill progression was pretty fun.

Initially hated 4's time limit stuff but warmed up to it a bit.
3 is the reason why I like wario and use him as my second. :)
 

Labernash

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Looked into it, and when Bowser is spamming his UpB input during our chaingrab, it's like, three times harder than Falco. After Seibrik tips, I was doing Falco's pretty consistently, and Bowser's all the way through, unless he was up-b'ing.

Also, grab release to Bowsercide is true.
 

Sensei Seibrik

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Looked into it, and when Bowser is spamming his UpB input during our chaingrab, it's like, three times harder than Falco. After Seibrik tips, I was doing Falco's pretty consistently, and Bowser's all the way through, unless he was up-b'ing.

Also, grab release to Bowsercide is true.

again, if his ONLY option is up-b

predict it, take ur free re-grab wen its done, or ur free kill at kill % with fsmash or fart
 

Jebu-95

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Project M Wario sucks, he doesn't even have his bike and tires...
What kind of Wario is that :(
 

Tesh

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Huh? they took away his items? Didn't Brawl + do the same to ZSS? I guess with all that hitstun, those items get pretty broken right?
 

TheReflexWonder

Wonderful!
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Huh? they took away his items? Didn't Brawl + do the same to ZSS? I guess with all that hitstun, those items get pretty broken right?
His Forward-B is now a Wario Land-esque shoulder charge, so, no bike.
 

Tesh

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I've never been huge on the Wario games, but isn't that what his forward smash already is?
 

TheReflexWonder

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They changed his F-Smash to a goofy-looking Ganondorf F-Tilt, pretty much. It's not as good.
 

DMG

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Wario's worse off in Project M. Not by a ton himself, but other characters around him fit better in the Melee realm. Some changes I like, others I am not a fan of. His fall speed is a bit too fast imo. His Dair is kinda weird too, would have preferred it being something else. His dash grab is also a bit slow because he goes through that fake side B motion and then grabs.

He's not as good at getting in, and with his range still pretty low it's kinda frustrating.
 

Strawhat64

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Wario's worse off in Project M. Not by a ton himself, but other characters around him fit better in the Melee realm. Some changes I like, others I am not a fan of. His fall speed is a bit too fast imo. His Dair is kinda weird too, would have preferred it being something else. His dash grab is also a bit slow because he goes through that fake side B motion and then grabs.

He's not as good at getting in, and with his range still pretty low it's kinda frustrating.

I do like warios bair and he still has his fair though. But there nothing wrong with his dair as you can spike with it. I seen hungry box spike people with dair and he's really good at it.
...

I still want his bike back...
 

xzx

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"When ground released, both Ness and Lucas suffer from 40 frames of lag rather than the normal 30. This gives any opponent 10 frames to do almost anything they want to them. Since Bowser and Donkey Kong (when using his cargo release) only suffer 20 frames of lag after releasing an opponent, they have 20 frames to attack Ness or Lucas during their release."

"Wario, who is known for having serious grab release issues, experiences the lag of most characters during his ground release. His air release, however, does not send him any horizontal distance at all, leaving him extremely vulnerable for 20 frames in front of the opponent. This causes him to be the prime target for many grab release combos, and possibly even infinites for those who can force him to jump break."

"Well known grab releases are Marth's grab release 0-death on Ness and Lucas, Zero Suit Samus' infinite on Squirtle, and Yoshi's infinite on Wario."

A moment of silence for our brothers in the suffering grab-release zone... =( ;( ;/ ='( ;'( x'( x'/
 

TheReflexWonder

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As an aside, I think Squirtle and Charizard might have a grab-release infinite on Wario at the edge, and Squirtle's would be very applicable due to hydrograbbing.
 

xzx

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As an aside, I think Squirtle and Charizard might have a grab-release infinite on Wario at the edge, and Squirtle's would be very applicable due to hydrograbbing.
If Wario has lost his DJ, ROB can infinite grab him. This works only if Wario has no ground below him.
 

xzx

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Tomorrow there is a Brawl tournament called 2HOT (in Norway) and it is going to have a live stream. Warios that will play are going to be me, Jebu and Woxen, but the latters maybe use other characters too. I will use 100% Wario so please watch if you want! =)

twitch.tv/crimsonchild

I will be back at Sunday night so please discuss ZSS until then. Wish me good luck and have a nice day! =)
 

Labernash

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You're my favorite Wario in general, SnackAttack. <3 Have you been to tourneys lately?

Also, hope you're doing good, Croi! Wreck shop plz
 

Lord Chair

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Got 3rd in teams in France, 13th in singles because Anoer is a ****** and kept grabbing my jump startup (completely unintentionally). Took a game off Deimos though and bodied Okals (though you guys probably don't know them).

I wish I lived in NY. I want to play this game more often but if I have to take 7h bus rides to Paris for that it's just really hard.

Note: Paris sucks ****, never go there unless you want to pay 5 euro for a beer.
 
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