Diego Nooooooo 5: Tournament Edition - September 7th, 2013 - Glen Ellyn, IL

[Oro?!]

I will be streaming PM again. Everyone bring setups so we can finish quickly and do crews!

Awwww yeah. Any chance we can record AND stream? Preferably decent recording quality?

Might be going to this, my ivysaur needs revenge on that ZSS oro

That Ivy is too legit. I see you taking it to M2K.

 

[Kirk]

Xsplit does do a local recording, and it is higher quality. Id have to mess around with the settings...cause you can stream and record with different presets.

 

[Strong Badam]

Still waiting on SCSYN5 vids ;~;

 

[HoChiMinhTrail]

Ill be there. I need good a team mate. (Melee/brawl/pm) i play all 3 well and all 3 way better in teams.
IM TRYNA BRING HOME THE BACON.

let us reunite the dream team

 

[ORLY]

lol i'm trying to get a ride to this

but jeff is off in poker land where the cell phone towers are made of gumdrops

 

[Kirk]

Bump hype! See you guys there.

 

[SKEET SHADY]

Won't be able to make this after all, next time chi town

 

[B.W.]

I'll be there between like 1 and 2. Setup and all of course.

 

[Scythe]

remember to bring a setup!

 

[Oro?!]

Diego NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Scythe]

: (((((((((((((((((

 

[metroid1117]

What were the top 8 for PM?

 

[Scythe]

i'll post a results thread later when i get to work

 

[Rat]

Top 8
1) DSF
2) Oro?!
3) Vro /
4) Arty /
5) Kirk
5) Scythe
7) Rat
7) ?BW?


DIEGO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Go DSF and Oro! Good work guys!

Guess fox really is OP...

 

[Zwarm]

Who let that Arty guy into top 5? He's so bad

Oro too

Diego won this in my heart <3 Sorry I couldn't make it guys, I'll be at the one a month from now hopefully, I changed my work schedule

 

[B.W.]

.

Top 8
1) DSF
2) Oro?!
3) Vro /
4) Arty /
5) Kirk
5) Scythe
7) Rat
7) ?BW?


DIEGO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Nah, not me. I didn't even make it out of Pools. Both pools were pretty damn hard this time around.

I'm not sure who got the other 7th spot though.

 

[Scythe]

norm is the other spot as bowser

edit: here's my fancy results thread

http://smashboards.com/threads/and-...ake-kittens-2-glen-ellyn-il-april-6th.335523/

 

[metroid1117]

Hey, so I probably won't be able to go to one of these until the weekend of the 26th-28th, but I had some questions:

1) Will the next one be on the 20th as planned by the biweekly schedule?

2) What do you guys think of the current stagelist? I didn't go to the last one, but assuming it's the same as the one we used at SMYM, then I agree with the main point (but not all points) that Vro made in this thread; I think there are too many stages that have redundant properties in terms of KO boundaries or size. Does anyone else feel this way? If so, would anyone be against trimming down the stagelist or increasing the number of bans to 4? The second option may sound extreme, but considering how we currently have 18 stages available to counterpick from (7 neutrals and 11 counterpicks), taking 8 out of the equation still leaves 10 stages, which is plenty for a best-of-5 set even with DSR.

 

[Scythe]

1. i don't know lol, kirk and I need to talk about it
2. I feel that alot of these stages are perfectly legal and can be in tournaments but that there are way too many stages now and it should probably be cut down. Stage banning takes too damn long. my 2 cents and I totally didn't read your whole paragraph too lazy

 

[Oro?!]

More VIABLE stages is always better. The problem occurs when multiple stages that are exploitable fit the same criteria. Like facing Bowser and Yoshi's/Metal Cavern/FoD/WarioWare all being on. Even with 3 total bans, you cannot eliminate every small stage. I like that Metal Cavern is at least slightly different with layout AND BLASTZONES (best part), but too many stages do the same thing. Never heard anyone complain about Battlefield.

 

[B.W.]

I just hate Castle Siege. I've also never seen anyone go there in tournament.

I also don't care for Yoshi's Island (Brawl). Mostly because, as far as I can tell, the "rice patties" are random and the randomness does very much effect matches sometimes.

 

[ORLY]

just turn on all the stages and start playing like men

be a smash bro not a smash ho

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Legalize Rainbow Cruise!!!

 

[Kirk]

Adding a ban is doable, and leaving the current stagelist as it is.

Out of the first page, there are 20 stages. We've chosen to ban two of them: Halberd(small ceiling and not so infrequent stage hazards) and SSE Jungle(OH GOD WHY). This leaves us with 18 stages to play with.

With four bans per person, that leaves 10 total stages that could be played in a set, still plenty to choose from with DSR in effect.

Example scenario: "I want to be all up in yo grill" vs. "Keep da fuq away"

"fuq away" bans yoshis story, warioware, metal cavern, and fountain of dreams...because "yo grill" works best with smaller stages to limit "fuq away"s ability to keep him out.

"yo grill" bans final destination, rumble falls, dreamland, and smashville. These stages are a determinate to "yo grill" as he cannot get all up in "fuq away"s grill on flat stages and larger arenas.

This leaves 10 stages...

Battlefield (neutral)
PS2 (neutral)
Yoshis Island (highish ceiling)
PS1 (transformation)
Green Hill Zone (flat)
Skyloft (big arena)
Skyworld (smallish)
Castle Siege (transformation small/flat)
Norfair (hot hot hot)
Draculas Castle (castlevania!)

There's something for everyone here. "Yo grill" can go to skyworld or battlefield to get all up in "fuq away"s grill, and "fuq away" can go to skyloft or green hill zone to zone out "yo grill" from performing his namesake.

It's a crude example, but you get the idea. Let me know what you guys think.

On the tournament date, I'm only hesistant on the 20th because we've had a lot of tournaments in a row as of late(IMDB this weekend) and we could use a break. This would be based on your guys' interest, so you need to speak your mind. I'll run it whenever, so let me know!

Also, for future reference...please show up on time. Going forward, I don't care if I have to run a 3 person RR or cancel an event. If people don't want to be serious about punctuality, I'll stop hosting tournaments. It's a detriment to a lot of people, TOs especially if things don't start and finish in a timely manner if we have to delay things past what is on the schedule.

No. Johns.

DIEGO NNNOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[B.W.]

**** PS1 and Castle Siege, but I'll deal with whatever stagelist is chosen really.

If you're hesitant on the 20th maybe call for another smashfest instead. The idea of monthly tournaments with smashfests on Saturdays was a good one imo. With that you got your practice days that gets everyone ready for the big tournament.

 

[metroid1117]

I think some stages should be removed to be honest (I agree with BW, PS1 is pretty redundant with PS2 and has questionable edges while Castle Siege has a portion where the whole stage rotates), but 4 bans would be the easiest solution. However, it will make keeping track of bans harder.

Personally I'd want you guys to make the next one on the 27th, but that's just because I won't be able to go to the 20th and if it continues to be a biweekly, I won't be able to go to one until May 4th >.>.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Also, for future reference...please show up on time. Going forward, I don't care if I have to run a 3 person RR or cancel an event. If people don't want to be serious about punctuality, I'll stop hosting tournaments. It's a detriment to a lot of people, TOs especially if things don't start and finish in a timely manner if we have to delay things past what is on the schedule.

Yeah I've been kinda concerned about this. The main reason I havent been entering singles is because I want to leave by 5-6, but I show up at 2 and doubles still hasnt started...

 

[Rat]

What i'd like to see with stages.

1) A Stage Rotation
2) Inclusion of some custom stages. - seems unlikely. The TO would have to set the SD cards before the tournament.


Stage Rotation
Instead of having 18 stages, have say 8. Each tournament you change which stages are legal. Also Subdivide the Rotation: Maybe 3 Neutrals, 5 CPs. Maybe 5 neutrals, 3 CPs? Who knows!

Examples:
Pancake Mittens 12 "Balanced Verson"
Strike: Smashville, PS2, Battlefield
CP: Yoshi's Story, FD, Dreamland, Yoshi's Island, FoD

Pancake Mittens 13 "Bowser Version"
Neutral: Yoshi's Story, Wario Ware, Metal Cavern
CP: FoD, Battlefield, Green hill zone, Skyworld

Pancake Mittens 14 "Amazing Version"
Neutral: Hyrule Castle, Rainbow Cruise, FD
CP: Saffron City, PS 1, Lylatt


Maybe have those who've lost set which stages are legal next time? Aka "**** the bowser version" says the FoxPlayer#261. I'll set FD and Rumble Falls to Neutral.
Maybe that's a bad idea.

Maybe it's players choose which stages will be rotated out and have a set list of which ones will be rotated in. (I like this.)

 

[B.W.]

By custom stages, do you mean downloadables? That'd be difficult probably, but if Kirk wanted to do it I'd be happy to help set the SD cards (adding a new icon to the stage select screen and all when available).

I kind of like the idea of a rotation, though maybe it should be less drastic if a rotation.

 

[Rat]

yeah less drastic would definitely be better.

Idk, I wouldn't mind striking from Hyrule Castle, Rainbow Cruise, and Battlefield.

 

[B.W.]

No one is gonna wanna play Hyrule Castle if they've played it before. So campy.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Hyrule Castle is the 64 stage right?

 

[Oro?!]

Yeah the 64 one.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I love that stage, and rainbow cruise. That stagelist has my vote!

 

[Kirk]

We've been discussing a new possibility for a stage list and counterpicking process. We would be using a group style, where each person would get to ban 1 group for the set. See below:

Group 1
Final Destination
Battlefield
Metal Cavern
Skyloft

Group 2
Smashville
Fountain of Dreams
Green Hill Zone
Dracula's Castle

Group 3
Pokemon Stadium 2
Dreamland
Skyworld
Castle Siege

Group 4
Yoshi's Story
Yoshi's Island
Rumble Falls
Norfair

From Mr. Barnick himself:

There are several purposes of trying this new experimental stagelist. One is to narrow down the total amount of stages that are playable per set. There are too many stages to sort through at the moment and this aims to solve this issue. WarioWare and PS1 have been removed due to polarization and redundancy respectively. In each of the four groups of stages, there is a neutral and a mixed representation of large/small/different stages. The goal of this is to keep the fundamental ideas of counterpicking in tact, while still being able to remove a large quantity of stages that you might not enjoy. In the old ruleset, being able to all but remove every possible good stage from your opponent neglected the intent that a counterpick provides.

Let us know what you guys think.

 

[metroid1117]

I like the idea of group banning, but I don't like how the stages were grouped; I understand that the intent was to keep a "neutral and a mixed representation of large/small/different stages," but in that case, I would prefer the traditional banning system because that grants flexibility. For example, if I were to play against a Fox user with Ike, I would want to ban stages with low KO ceilings and wide stages where he can camp. If I ban group 4, which eliminates Yoshi's Island and Rumble Falls, he/she might ban Group 1 to avoid getting chain grabbed on FD. However, that leaves all the stages in Groups 2 and 3 intact, giving my opponent the opportunity to counterpick Skyworld, PS2, and Dracula's; this places a lot of importance on Game 1. Also, group 4 contains stages that I typically would not ban against Fox, such as Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Story. With the way the stages are grouped, I feel like this is a more inflexible version of what we seemed to be leaning towards in Kirk's previous post, which was the current stage list with 4 bans instead of 3. Since we're getting the same number of bans anyway, I personally like just banning 4 stages, since it grants more flexibility while banning the same number of stages and keeping it simpler on the logistics side (less of a need to print out stagelists).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Why not go back to the groupings from FC? I thought those were relatively fair.

 

[Rat]

Oracle I see you lurking our thread.

How would you group stages?

 

[Scythe]

Why not go back to the groupings from FC? I thought those were relatively fair.

this is what we were originally working on but then kyle doesn't like it stating- What would be the point of the counterpicking process if someone could just ban all the stages you would normally counterpick with? or something like that. Better if he says it himself.