Q&A Diddy's Q&A + Competitive Development - ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Blue Mage]

I think you have to hold shield from the beginning of side b all the way until you pull out your popgun.

If we're thinking of the same tech.

 

[Dre89]

I think you have to hold shield from the beginning of side b all the way until you pull out your popgun.

If we're thinking of the same tech.

We know how to do it. I'm just looking for confirmation that's all.

 

[Blue Mage]

We know how to do it. I'm just looking for confirmation that's all.

Oh sorry, my bad.

But I can confirm it still works. I used it quite a lot in my matches today.

 

[Dre89]

Oh sorry, my bad.

But I can confirm it still works. I used it quite a lot in my matches today.

Were you able to cancel the popgun? My mate said he could still get the b reverse momentum, but he couldn't cancel the popgun anymore.

 

[Blue Mage]

Were you able to cancel the popgun? My mate said he could still get the b reverse momentum, but he couldn't cancel the popgun anymore.

Yeah, I was able to cancel it.

 

[Dre89]

Yeah, I was able to cancel it.

That's interesting, I'm kind of confused now. Thanks for testing.

 

[comp666]

any tips for when to release the jetpack when recovering? I try to hold it for as long as I can but sometimes I hold it for too long and just kill myself. How do u know when ur about to go too low out of bounds?

Maybe you can count the # of sec from the time the red circle around you shows up?

 

[Dre89]

Yeah, I was able to cancel it.

Sorry to bother you again, but is your console connected to the internet. My friend suspects a ninja patch, so if you weren't connected to the net in that time it may explain why you can still do it. If you were connected then I dunno.

Edit- I just did it, but I could only get it once. I'm pretty sure something has changed. Doing the exact input as before results in him b-reversing the popgun but not cancelling it. I think they must have ninja patched it or something. It's definitely changed. It's now borderline impossible to do when before it was incredibly easy.

 

[Blue Mage]

Sorry to bother you again, but is your console connected to the internet. My friend suspects a ninja patch, so if you weren't connected to the net in that time it may explain why you can still do it. If you were connected then I dunno.

Edit- I just did it, but I could only get it once. I'm pretty sure something has changed. Doing the exact input as before results in him b-reversing the popgun but not cancelling it. I think they must have ninja patched it or something. It's definitely changed. It's now borderline impossible to do when before it was incredibly easy.

Are you absolutely 100% sure you're doing the inputs correctly? My Wii U is always connected to the internet, so if there was a ninja patch I would have noticed it as well. I'm still able to popgun cancel just fine.

 

[Dre89]

Are you absolutely 100% sure you're doing the inputs correctly? My Wii U is always connected to the internet, so if there was a ninja patch I would have noticed it as well. I'm still able to popgun cancel just fine.

Pretty sure, because the inputs weren't hard before. I'm getting the same result as my mate, b reversing the popgun without the cancel. He hasn't changed his inputs. What used to get him the cancel now just gets him the b reverse without the cancel.

I've gotten it twice out of dozens of 'correct' attempts (when it ends up b reversing without cancelling).

Are you able to get it 100% of the time or is it just a rare one off?

 

[Blue Mage]

Pretty sure, because the inputs weren't hard before. I'm getting the same result as my mate, b reversing the popgun without the cancel. He hasn't changed his inputs. What used to get him the cancel now just gets him the b reverse without the cancel.

I've gotten it twice out of dozens of 'correct' attempts (when it ends up b reversing without cancelling).

Are you able to get it 100% of the time or is it just a rare one off?

I won't lie when I say I'm not 100% consistent with it. I may get them about 80% of the time or so.

I don't know if this is some sort of placebo effect, but after reading about you and your friend having trouble with it, suddenly I'm starting to have some trouble with it as well. What is going on?

I promise you I wasn't having trouble a couple days ago against my friends, or yesterday even.

 

[divade]

any tips for when to release the jetpack when recovering? I try to hold it for as long as I can but sometimes I hold it for too long and just kill myself. How do u know when ur about to go too low out of bounds?

Maybe you can count the # of sec from the time the red circle around you shows up?

It's really just getting a feel for it, sometimes you can get hit and you'll fall at a different speed, so counting won't always be reliable. I'd do a little testing on FD and just let your self die a few times to get a feel for the kill zone, then practice recovering, (i've played him enough that I know that once a pull my pack out at a certain depth, i know what my limit will be, and while i never give up on it (i've been surprised), I don't hold my breathe for it.)

also, you can smash flip to walled stages and jump up from nearly any depth if you need general recovery help.

 

[divade]

I'm considering switching to A-sticking, but I'm wondering how much of loss not being able to smash-toss nanas with the C-stick would be. It feels like a bigger loss than it would be in Brawl, because in this game you pretty much always throw nanas directly at someone rather than use them for zoning.

I don't miss it, quick side tilts are damn useful.

Need some tips

- What uses Diddy's Banana have in game
- Is his Nair good
- What are his main edge guarding options
Thanks in advance

I Banana revese when opponents are recovering, not a great chance to hit but it adds pressure, also Side-B bannana reverse instead of popgun cancel is interesting.
I use nair as the typical "get off me" move and then for maximum gimp range.
[QUOTE="MintChipper"[/QUOTE]
a few quick ones i can think of
D-tilt can combo it self, or combo to Side-tilt.
a couple bairs

 

[Dre89]

I won't lie when I say I'm not 100% consistent with it. I may get them about 80% of the time or so.

I don't know if this is some sort of placebo effect, but after reading about you and your friend having trouble with it, suddenly I'm starting to have some trouble with it as well. What is going on?

I'm really perplexed by the whole situation. I know I'm doing the same inputs as my mate because I'm getting he same result, which is b reversing without cancelling it. But that's the inputs he's always done and he used to nail it every single time, until one day he couldn't do it anymore. He insists it's been removed. It's not like it was a hard tech, so I doubt we could just be missing it everytime.

You sideb in the air, hold shield, then b reverse popgun. It wasn't hard. I don't know why it won't cancel anymore.

 

[Teran]

Hey guys, was just wondering if there's a comprehensive dthrow uair kill % chart. I mean, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist, and I don't mind testing/writing it all up myself and stuff, but would be kinda nice if I didn't have to do that.

 

[Dre89]

Hey guys, was just wondering if there's a comprehensive dthrow uair kill % chart. I mean, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist, and I don't mind testing/writing it all up myself and stuff, but would be kinda nice if I didn't have to do that.

Depends on what you mean. Hoo Ha is DIable as low as 30%, possibly lower. It''s just that it requires perfect DI and you have to do it quickly because the dthrow animation is fast.

 

[Dooms]

Hey guys, was just wondering if there's a comprehensive dthrow uair kill % chart. I mean, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist, and I don't mind testing/writing it all up myself and stuff, but would be kinda nice if I didn't have to do that.

I thought this would be difficult to create because of how DI dependent it is.

@ TSM ZeRo My understanding of trip sapling is the following. You may have more experience, so feel free to correct anything I state.

Trip sapling doesn't have too big of a hitbox/radius/whatever you wanna call it. It's small enough to where it shouldn't be a problem unless you're trying to dash grab him or you're falling/being pressured into it. Also, his follow ups out of the trip are pretty mediocre unless he sets up hardcore for **** like setting the sapling under a platform and fsmashing you after you trip. He could probably zone you out with it, but if he's not in a space where you can't Uair him OoS without tripping, the amount of stuff he can get off of that trip is pretty minimal.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

A flowchart like this is SUPER hard cause of rage. Rage affects starting at low percents even...

Hey guys, was just wondering if there's a comprehensive dthrow uair kill % chart. I mean, I'd be surprised if one didn't exist, and I don't mind testing/writing it all up myself and stuff, but would be kinda nice if I didn't have to do that.

 

[Teran]

Depends on what you mean. Hoo Ha is DIable as low as 30%, possibly lower. It''s just that it requires perfect DI and you have to do it quickly because the dthrow animation is fast.

Yeah I know it's DI'able and rage dependent, but generally you'd hope to dthrow them the moment you grab them.

Anyway that's not the point, really I'm more concerned with a kill % chart, it helps a lot knowing when certain moves will kill.

Speaking of DI though, a chart of %s where different hoo hahs (uair/fair/dair etc) are guaranteed and when/how they're technically DI'able would be cool.

Again if nobody's thought to do this I could do it all but yeah just asking

 

[Drippy]

How do I properly use Diddy Kong's Up B? When I use it to recover, it sometimes explodes even though I could've swore I hit the ledge and there are times when I run right into the bottom of the stage to see if it explodes but it just sweet spots and I hang on the ledge. Also sometimes why do I cling to the wall when I use side B instead of hanging onto the ledge.

 

[#SWEGFEG]

I like to dthrow then dairy when at 50 percent do it at the edge and spike them if you missed jump then u air or sair them

 

[Geoberos]

any tips for when to release the jetpack when recovering? I try to hold it for as long as I can but sometimes I hold it for too long and just kill myself. How do u know when ur about to go too low out of bounds?

Maybe you can count the # of sec from the time the red circle around you shows up?

There's a visual cue that helps when to release. When you see Diddy vibrating a bit more violently it's an OK indication that you should be able to have enough distance to make it back to the ledge. However if you're off screen, I'd say it takes about 2~3 seconds before the vibration cue.

How do I properly use Diddy Kong's Up B? When I use it to recover, it sometimes explodes even though I could've swore I hit the ledge and there are times when I run right into the bottom of the stage to see if it explodes but it just sweet spots and I hang on the ledge. Also sometimes why do I cling to the wall when I use side B instead of hanging onto the ledge.

I haven't delve deep into the threads yet, but as far as personal experience, going directly for the ledge anywhere past a 45 degree angle would result in an SD rather than a ledge snap.

As for wall cling, try letting go of the control stick after the flip since holding toward he stage could result in the cling.

Side note that an uncharged rocketbarrel goes a lot further horizontally. Uncharged rocketbarrel vertical is my bad brawl habit.

==

As for the Popgun Cancel, I just do the basics with them. Nothing fancy with wavebounces or reversals. Cancel the animation before the popgun shakes out of control into grabs or cancels into a banana throw (and if the opponent shields, go for a grab, but if he spotdodges out of shield then I ****ed myself over).

 

[Drippy]

There's a visual cue that helps when to release. When you see Diddy vibrating a bit more violently it's an OK indication that you should be able to have enough distance to make it back to the ledge. However if you're off screen, I'd say it takes about 2~3 seconds before the vibration cue.


I haven't delve deep into the threads yet, but as far as personal experience, going directly for the ledge anywhere past a 45 degree angle would result in an SD rather than a ledge snap.

As for wall cling, try letting go of the control stick after the flip since holding toward he stage could result in the cling.

Side note that an uncharged rocketbarrel goes a lot further horizontally. Uncharged rocketbarrel vertical is my bad brawl habit.

==

As for the Popgun Cancel, I just do the basics with them. Nothing fancy with wavebounces or reversals. Cancel the animation before the popgun shakes out of control into grabs or cancels into a banana throw (and if the opponent shields, go for a grab, but if he spotdodges out of shield then I ****ed myself over).

Ahh alright, thanks a lot! I'll keep that in mind while recovering :D

 

[Benzerade]

Anyone have any tips for the optimal time to use Dtilt mixups? I usually find that characters with fast jabs (especially fast fallers) like Falcon, Sheik, and Sonic can immediately mash out jabs right after a Dtilt.

Also, any recovery tips? I find that I'll aim my recovery to the ledge, only to hit the ledge, blow up my barrels and cause me to plummet to my death. Most of the time it happens when I try to recover at an upwards diagonal angle. It's especially hard for me to aim it when I'm online and it's getting really laggy.

a good time to use d-tilt is when your both really close to each other for some reason. Just roll behind then and do 2 d-tilts into grab or if at kill percents to d-tilt to up air or f-air

 

[Benzerade]

How do I DI Diddys down throw properly? Been having trouble figuring it out.

if your still wondering, at 0 percent, di away from him so he doesnt get 3 up airs. at mid percents, youll eaither get hit with up air or fair ( if you di away) so youll want to get y u air so it stales. di so that you end up directly above him. good diddys will still hityou with fair though. at kill percents, di away so you dont get hit bu up air which kills earlier than fair.

 

[Dre89]

if your still wondering, at 0 percent, di away from him so he doesnt get 3 up airs. at mid percents, youll eaither get hit with up air or fair ( if you di away) so youll want to get y u air so it stales. di so that you end up directly above him. good diddys will still hityou with fair though. at kill percents, di away so you dont get hit bu up air which kills earlier than fair.

After around 30% DIing diagonally up and behind him will mean he can only hit you with a fair if you do it perfectly

 

[Dre89]

So I've been fooling around with autocancelling and I think I've found a few applications for nair. These are probably all known, but it's good to get them on a later page so they're more accessible.

Nair doesn't get much use because it's outclassed by falling uair in most situations, but it has uses when landing with it. Unlike uair, nair ACs when you cancel the animation by landing with i it. This means at lower percents, landing nair is better for setting up juggles and frame traps than landing uair because it has no lag. Whilst uair has a hitbox behind it, it can't hit smaller characters like Pika when they're on the ground with the back hitbox, but nair can.

Landing with nair could be useful when the opponent has an item in hand. This is because you land commitment -free with an aerial hitbox around you to catch thrown items. A lot of the time people will try punish your landings with item tosses, so this could be a nice counter to that.

This needs to be tested, but when approaching a shield fast falling a nair into a buffered dtilt may beat out OOS options or shieldpoke due to being lagless and the nature of dtilt's hitbox (and your lowered hurtbox). It'd be cool if someone could test this with a friend.

Also, if you land with dair before the hitbox comes out it will AC. You can do this by dairing at the apex of a shorthop or lower and fast falling. This could be a cheezy bait because peope will see the startup of the dair animation and assume you'll have landing lag, allowing to go into a buffered dtilt or a pivot grab or something. The pre-hitbox frames also catch nanas.

That's all I got for now. Pretty niche stuff and probably already known but I figured it's better than nothing and could get discussion going.

 

[Robin1613]

With the imminent nerf coming, what do you guys think will be hit the hardest?

My bets on Uair having more startup probably 8 frames.

I finally won't feel guilty for using my main now haha.

 

[Dooms]

I'm honestly guessing that Uair will kill later. Maybe more end lag. I'm also guessing that fair will have more end lag as well, or won't be auto-cancelable anymore. Fsmash will probably kill later, too.

Super good write up.

From what I've been noticing, another match up that changes heavily is Villager. He essentially can zone you out with his tripping down B, and it can be hard to get past it.

Have any insight on that?

Hey, did you figure this out?

I switched my co-main with Diddy from Duck Hunt to Villager, and I have a few more thoughts on this matchup because of that (coming from both sides), but considering that custom Villager is kind of popular now, I'd like to hear your thoughts if you have any.

My updated thoughts are the following:

- Villager will beat you in the air on a straight horizontal and vertical axis. Up air and sling shot will ruin most of your aerial approaches. This is the same with Normal Villager of course, but it's definitely important to note in the custom villager matchup as you will generally be forced into the air in this matchup assuming that the trip sapling is placed/played around correctly. If you can get a read and punish something with a falling fair at a diagonal, go for it. However, be aware of the timing of pushy lloid if you're fighting against it, as if you run into it while using fair, you will lose the trade regardless of if you hit him or not. If you're fighting regular lloid, you should win the trade if Lloid hits you, so it's generally worth it.

- Learn the amount of space trip sapling takes up. It's not a very big tripbox in all honesty. Be aware of where it is placed at all times. Learn what trip sapling placements are good for Villager and what trip sapling placements are bad for Villager. Placing the sapling near the ledge is always preferred by Villager, but Villagers may also go for things like putting the sapling under a platform for bowling ball pressure or closer to the middle and just play around the sapling with slingshots, nair, ftilt, jab, and turnips. Rolling around the sapling and into Villager will always lead to bad news (especially at lower percents where OoS Nair can push you into trip sapling and give Villager a free combo on you) UNLESS you're aware of the start up time of Pushy Lloid and are rolling around a trip sapling to grab him during that start up OR he's using Pushy Lloid in the air, predicting you to jump and approach him. You have to be spaced correctly to punish grounded Pushy Lloyd. If you're not spaced correctly, it will either hit you or your shield and he can easily grab you or push you into the trip sapling with jab/ftilt shielded or otherwise. Punish any Villager that spaces incorrectly around the trip sapling as well (if they stand too close to it), as your uair/fair should be able to hit any Villager standing really close to it if spaced correctly. You do NOT want to be in the space between the sapling and Villager if the sapling is placed near the ledge. He will force you into shield by going off stage with slingshots/nair/turnips, push you into the sapling, and then hit you away. It's a lose lose scenario unless you get a hard read on him while he's playing off stage.

- I said previously regarding hardy sticky pikmin that when Olimar doesn't have all three pikmin out, you should go ham and make him hate his life. I say the same about trip sapling. Trip sapling stays for around 18 seconds, and right before it disappears, the trip box goes away. There is about 1-2 second(s) where Villager can not place another trip sapling (he will use watering can if he tries). Learn this timing. Embrace this timing. This is where you will get your huge percentage on Villager. If you camp him out until those 18 seconds are nearly up, you will be able to get a grab -> aerial combo on him, which will put him in a position where he has to approach you (which is very difficult for Villager against Diddy).

- If you run into trip sapling, do NOT roll into Villager. EVER. Roll away or get up normally/get up attack if you're feeling edgy or you have a read. The most Villager can get out of you rolling away is a run up nair, fair/bair, dair, or dash attack. MAYBE an up smash if he's close to you when you trip and predicts you tripping. Rolling into him (or if read correctly, getting up/get up attacking) can give him access to his whole arsenal of moves... Which includes pushing you back into the trip sapling with jab/ftilt... Not worth.

- If Villager is forced to recover lower with his exploding balloons, use your banana to pop one. He will be forced to explode his other balloon to get back to the ledge. He can only grab the ledge after the apex of his balloons exploding, so that should be a free punish once you get used to the timing.

- Do not try to spike Villager near the stage. If he sees you going for any falling aerial, he can force his balloons to explode if timed well. If your placement is off, this could mean you getting stage spiked. Trust me, you will not get a spike consistently against Villager, stage spike or dair. Save your banana to pop a balloon, because considering how pocket works, you won't have much more use for it in this matchup unless he pockets a peanut and keeps it for some odd reason, and a follow up from forcing him to recover low is way better of an outcome for you. If he's further away from the stage, you could get something out of it depending on both of your percents.

All I have. Would like more insight from players that are way better than me.

-------

Also at everyone, what are your thoughts on Up-b 2 being used in place of Up-b 1 post-nerf? I've been using it as an OoS punish if someone tries to go for a dash attack on shield or something, from banana trip, as a spot dodge punish, and as an air dodge punishing tool and the more I use it, the more I feel that it is one of our best killing tools when rage adds up. The fact that it has the hitbox all the way through the recovery (although it may be weaker the further the recovery goes) and that it covers the same amount of distance as regular up-b although with not as much horizontal potential (but still enough in my opinion unless you're recovering from like a corner blast zone) makes me feel that it's not that much worse of a recovery.

I personally think the biggest selling point for it is that it's almost guaranteed off of any banana trip you can get a grab off of. It also punishes any spot dodge the opponent may try to do after you throw the banana. It's definitely worth having, and post-nerf (because I doubt this will be nerfed), it may be a tool we have to rely on as Diddy players.

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Doubt this matters since the patch is coming soon, but Diddy's FC Dair can lead into Uair and fair and later percents. It also seems to be a disjoint since it can hit marth below battlefield's middle platforms.

 

[Kantrip]

Hey guys, so I've been messing around with JCIT (Jump Cancelled Item Toss) and it's actually crazy how far we slide from it. The only difference between it and glide tossing in brawl is that we can't do it out of shield, and I guess it's a bit more technically demanding to do it in some directions.

My question is: Is it possible to JCIT out of a dash? I've been trying to stop dashing and then input it to maintain momentum but it seems like I either do a dash toss or I just stop and throw it normally. I've been able to JCIT out of a foxtrot and out of the initial dash animation, but if I'm already running I can't seem to do it.

If it's not possible to JCIT when running, would it be optimal to just foxtrot everywhere instead to keep that spacing option open?

EDIT: Okay I tried testing it by trying to JCIT in the opposite direction that I was running/foxtrotting and unless I'm completely messing up the input it seems like it's only possible to JCIT out of foxtrot. Using this as a movement option will make banana->fsmash setups a lot easier imo.

 

[Odeclas]

How do people kill with Diddy now that upair is booty? The only way I've been killing people is with the rare spike, or a glide toss banana into fsmash.

 

[InBOUNDHD]

Kill options that diddy has now:
uptilt
dtilt to rar bair
dtilt to upsmash
jct banana to fsmash
jct banana to upsmash
upthrow to upair (the precent at which this setup kills varies for each character)

Thats about all I can remember.

 

[W.A.C.]

Forward air can still kill at decent percentages (130-150%) if you jump off stages and your opponent isn't heavy. Back air is a much better kill move now though. Ledge trump > back air also just as good as ever as a kill option. Diddy Kong just has to work way harder to get kills now. Down throw > down air off stage can also kill, along with down throw > down air > up air. Though I haven't tested either of those down throw > down air options on an actual person post patch, so you results may vary. I recommend everyone not so great at landing a down air kill to practice way more regularly to get those kills. It's easily's Diddy Kong's best kill option off stage.

 

[W.A.C.]

Edit: Goddammit, why isn't there a delete button?

 

[InBOUNDHD]

might wanna edit this, u posted twice

 

[MoosyDoosy]

How do people kill with Diddy now that upair is booty? The only way I've been killing people is with the rare spike, or a glide toss banana into fsmash.

Monkey Flip works well. Only need to get to ~160 and not ~200. Otherwise I get kill set ups with banana edge guards and Fsmash.

 

[busken]

How should you manage banana's playing Diddy Kong. When is the right time to spawn a banana in neutral?

 

[Dustydog96]

How do i beat jigglypuff as diddy? i'm being abused by her air game

 

[InBOUNDHD]

When is the right time to spawn a banana in neutral?

Usually when you have enough space so that your opponent cannot punish. Getting the opponent offstage is a great time to setup your banana, as well as using b reverse banana pluck as you recover with side b.