Diddy's Placement on the Tier List v6

[Ingulit]

If you haven't seen it yet, the Tier List v6 has been released:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=306431

On it, Diddy has been placed #2, taking the spot that has until now been controlled by Snake. Not only that, but judging from the data, Diddy's #2 spot was nearly a unanimous decision. So, what do you think?

1) Did you see this coming?
2) What do you think has made Diddy appear to be a "better" character than Snake as of late?
3) Do you think Diddy is better than Snake?
4) Do you agree with Diddy's new placement overall?

 

[z00ted]

1) Yes, I "saw" it coming.

2) More people playing the character at top level and (for the most part) higher tournament results.

3) No

4) No

He's third, but will stay second.

 

[-Googs]

i think with peanuts diddy iz number one but when he runs out he goes back to four

Can we save the trolling for the social thread, please?

 

[T-block]

Fun fact: Diddy was 11th on the first tier list. He's come a long way, huh?

I think Snake in theory has a lot of weaknesses, but in practice, players make mistakes, and Snake punishes mistakes better than any other character in the game, allowing him to remain second. As players continue to improve, we approach that "theory" metagame, which will see Snake fall.

So yeah, I do agree with Diddy over Snake.

 

[Player-1]

Diddy being above Snake makes no sense in my mind at all.

 

[Sails]

Diddy being above Snake makes no sense in my mind at all.

Agreed. 10agrees

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

After playing Snake so long it makes sense in my eyes. Guys Snake has stopped deserving the 2nd spot since like Version 4..lol

 

[Player-1]

maybe you just suck with snake


Not really, Snake has had better results than Diddy, not to mention his MUs are better, at least according to the BBR MU chart

 

[T-block]

How much should the MU chart translate to tier placements though? Diddy has a much more even spread... the number of characters he beats solidly (+2/+3) is fewer than Snake, but when a lot of those characters are below average, how much should that count? Diddy actually has a much spread when you look at the top tiers, which is the most relevant part of the metagame.

 

[Player-1]

it's not THAT much more spread out than Snake's

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Why do you think I main D3 now?

I will agree that Snake has had better results (at least on a more recent scale) and honestly "eh" at the BBR MU chart. Its inaccurate in many ways imo.

But like if you look at MUs as far as the Top 8:

Metaknight: Diddy does better (in a metagame dominated by MK it has some weight) here. Snake loses now that MKs know what to do.
Snake: Well Snake goes even with Snake....lol Beats Diddy.
Diddy: Diddy goes even with Diddy...Snake wins here.
Falco: Even on both fronts.
ICs: Honestly I feel like most ICs don't play the Snake MU correctly. And according to this Diddy wins here.
Marth: Diddy wins here. Snake loses.
Pikachu: Even on both fronts.
Wario: Beats Diddy but goes even with Snake.

I mean if you go off of this alone its debatable who has the edge here. Not losing to MK goes a LONG way. lol

(oh my statements were used going off the MU chart..as said earlier..dont agree with everything)

 

[Player-1]

diddy does about the same as snake if the MK knows the MU, just lookat M2k, atomask, anti, etc. It's just not as known as the snake MU yet. Snake beats ICs harder. Snake goes about even with Marth, Diddy beats Pikachu and Pikachu beats Snake. And results should hold more weight than theoretical MUs

 

[-Googs]

ic's/diddy is even or ic's +1 if they actually know what do..

desynched iceblock+banathrow is a guaranteed grab if it hits, so frustrating.

 

[Player-1]

it's definitely not in ICs favor...

 

[Tin Man]

Diddy loses to Luigi & Peach lol. Snake has no Mid tier losses. when you say matchup chart, I looked at that and was like "this n** snake still got dis.

Also there were other reasons lol, but I can say how I feel about Snake > Diddy if someone really wants to kno.

 

[Vega4]

Diddy loses to Luigi & Peach lol. Snake has no Mid tier losses. when you say matchup chart, I looked at that and was like "this n** snake still got dis.

Also there were other reasons lol, but I can say how I feel about Snake > Diddy if someone really wants to kno.

I don't know why the match up chart has that thing about Peach and Luigi beating Diddy.
Yes, I know that Peach can avoid naners with her air game, but Fairs, Peanuts and jumpin' monkey flip and monkey flip kicks can destroy her air game... and when she is in the air, close to you, you just have too many options to avoid her dair>dair>... combos....
And Luigi... I know that Luigi's weird trip make hard to do naner combos, but you can rack up damage anyway, and Luigi shouldn't even touch you if you know the match up...

 

[z00ted]

Peach and Luigi do not beat Diddy Kong.

 

[Kantrip]

And Wario is even. The matchup thread Sails has been coordinating in these boards is going to be more accurate when it's finished than the BBR matchup chart. I don't think Diddy deserves second either, but he got it because other players aren't training with items enough.

 

[Player-1]

Luigi beats Diddy, but barely. 55-45.

 

[T-block]

Luigi does not beat Diddy lol

 

[Kantrip]

Naw it's Diddy's Advantage. Luigi has a really hard time approaching because getting hit by something puts him back at square one. His sliding can help us more than him.

 

[Player-1]

he definitely does. Used to play BigLou like at every tournament before he started using Diddy, I know what I'm talking about.

 

[DFEAR]

luigi with a lead beats diddy. lol

but yea ive faced biglou as well man and i have to say that its like 51-49 luigi's favor

 

[Ussi]

I think if bizkit, fatal, and razer show Snake ain't done yet... Snake can get 2 back.

I still think Snake is #2 just because of his heavy weight, clutch utilt, and nades. Diddy has a more gimpable recovery and is mid-weight..

Still its a close call, so long as they are next to each other its fine.

 

[DFEAR]

snake should be 4th or 5th imo

 

[Dekar173]

Diddy's not second Brawl players just refuse to adapt.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Metaknight: Diddy does better (in a metagame dominated by MK it has some weight) here. Snake loses now that MKs know what to do.
Snake: Well Snake goes even with Snake....lol Beats Diddy.
Diddy: Diddy goes even with Diddy...Snake wins here.
Falco: Even on both fronts.
ICs: Honestly I feel like most ICs don't play the Snake MU correctly. And according to this Diddy wins here.
Marth: Diddy wins here. Snake loses.
Pikachu: Even on both fronts.
Wario: Beats Diddy but goes even with Snake.

Are you serious? MK is the direct source for the majority of Diddy Kong's losses - Snake on the other hand has better results in the MK match-up now than ever before. MK has *never* managed to keep Snake down except maybe for the MLG season [where it still was between individual players only]. Snake does as good vs MK as Diddy does at WORST.
Diddy Kong does absolutely not better vs ICs than Snake. Again at the very best for Diddy Kong they do about the same but that'd mean you're being generous enough to say that ICs are +1 for Snake and +1 for Diddy. But I know there are people who think that it's +2 for Snake and 0 for Diddy, which frankly is a lot closer to the truth. And Wario doesn't really beat Diddy - I feel like he's 0 against both Snake and Diddy overall.

At this point I'd definitely say that Snake is better than Diddy Kong although he's still 3rd.

I also strongly disagree with T-Block's point - Snake doesn't do worse once people start doing better like they should in theory. There is a LOT more to Snake than just punishing the mistakes the other players make.
There's also a reason people tend to make more mistakes against Snake than most other characters.

Diddy beats both Luigi and Peach +1

Edit: I find it increasingly hard to see Falco vs Diddy as even though. The more I look at this match-up the more it seems to be +1 for Diddy.

 

[Vega4]

Luigi beats Diddy, but barely. 55-45.

Yeah, and so do Sheik and Pokemon Trainer... Just because it's hard for you doesn' mean that is hard for Diddy. Probably that was the same that happen when I said that Falco was hard for Diddy and a lot of Diddy mains said I was wrong...

Seriously, in last year Diddy got better resoults than Snake in important tournaments. And now only consistent Snake in serious tournaments is Razer. Ally is now a MK main, he barely uses Snake vs hards opponents... And Fatal is good, but in USA there are at least 5 Diddy main at Fatal level...

 

[Player-1]

what? When did I say sheik was 55-45 their favor? I never said that ws my logic, stop putting words in my mouth. I know the luigi MU, what Luigi's have you played that are top level? Because there are only 2 good ones which are Boss and BigLou, if you're not playing them then I highly doubt you know the MU very well. And you are wrong about Falco, we even had a top level Falco player come in and tell you you were wrong.

edit: And Snake and Diddy have had about the same results. Even recently Snake has been putting more work in than Diddy by a good bit.

 

[Kuro~]

I think snake and diddy is back and forth between who is the larger threat at the point in the metagame.

Ppl don't "fear" snake as much as they used to atm. They feel comfortable. Which is reflected in the tier list.

Imo snake could be second or diddy. It's a hard choice. In the end though, i'd have to go with snake more than likely.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And Fatal is good, but in USA there are at least 5 Diddy main at Fatal level...

 

[Player-1]

LMAO, didn't even see that part of his post. Vega for biggest moron next to Jebus.

 

[Player-3]

diddy deserves #1 imo

popgun is too op

 

[Vega4]

LMAO, didn't even see that part of his post. Vega for biggest moron next to Jebus.

I said that because I think that you and others Diddys are at least in that level, but I didn't know that you have such a low self-steem, and all you do is insult once and again...

 

[Player-1]

I don't have low self esteem, I'm the best. Of course I'm on Fatal's level and actually above it since I'm the best, but I don't think there are 4 other Diddys on his level. Also, "all I do is insult" is wrong since I made a well thought out post before that one that you didn't even mention.

 

[Ingulit]

Keep your personal arguments to PMs and please discuss the matter at hand.

 

[Anthon1996]

I though Diddy was gonna be tied with Snake at best. They both have epic stage control with their projectiles, and they have very good comboing abilities. Diddy does have a superior air game and, most importantly, a better match-up against MK.

 

[ADHD]

P1's post have no tone to them, and it bothers the hell out of me. I've come to only one conclusion--he has no soul.



Ally stopped using Snake as much, so he probably dropped a spot bc of that. Diddy is a very good char, but it's so hard to use him at a top level all the freakin time. It takes so much practice.

 

[DFEAR]

it takes so much patience*

 

[Player-3]

p1 doesn't have a soul


it's legitimetly true