Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #2~ Captain Olimar

[DFEAR]

Discuss Captain Olimar and Pikmin. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:
​

 

[Player-1]

Isn't it Character #2?

 

[DFEAR]

lol sorry xD

 

[ice_cream_man]

Use uptilt or nair to get pikmin off you

 

[Player-1]

IMO, this is one of Diddy's worst matchups.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:

About equal I say, Olimar's aerials are strong most of the time (depending on the pikmin), his Uair is ****, and his nair can be comboed into a lot of things even at high percentages, but Diddy beats them all in terms of range I think.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:

Diddy's ground game gets nerfed in this matchup because of the pikmin being able to block the bananas. Olimar is one of the best, if not the best, characters at camping. Once Diddy starts getting some momentum it can be hard for the Olimar player to escape. His smashes come out FAST. I like to do Diddy's multi hit jab (the tail thing) a lot because Olimars like to spotdodge smash attack when you're close to them.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:

Grabs: When approaching I've recently found out that it works very well to monkey flip over to him and then use the midair jump before I touch the ground and they usually try to grab why I punish with a FF Fair.

Side-b: Just don't let him camp you, you need to fairly aggressive in this matchup, but at the same time playing cautiously. Peanuts and bananas can collide with Pikmin and I like using Nair to get the pikmin off.

Usmash/Dsmash: Once I'm at a good killing percentage, I'll usually start camping the Olimar for 2 reasons. 1. They'll want the kill and usually approach you and 2. Once your around 140 or 150, it doesn't really matter if they start camping so you get damage because you're already past the usual kill range for Olimar.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:

Bananas: This is an obvious one, you always want to utilize bananas. Just know that Diddy's bananas go through Olimar's pikmin when he tries to grab you, but clashes with his pikmin with everything else.

Peanuts: They clash with thrown pikmin.

Side-b Variations: Make SURE you're varying your approaches with this or you WILL get punished for it. Side-b grab, side-b kick, side-b cancel, side-b > midair jump, side-b kick cancel, etc. Also, you can DHGR > Footstool Olimar.

Dtilt/Jabs: They're Diddy's fastest ground game moves besides thrown bananas. You need to be fast against Olimar when dealing with his smashes

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:

My strategies are already stated.

Overall Character Ratio:
60:40 Olimar's advantage

 

[ADHD]

55:45 in diddy's advantage i'll edit this and explain later. I have never lost to an olimar and that's one of my randomly really good matchups.

 

[Bellioes]

Heres my opinion of the MU from fighting my bros Olimar
Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:

In general, I believe Diddys is better. He has more range and and priority,. His Fair is especially good in this match. Also, Bairs OOS for blocked smashes.Though I watch out for that Uair (especially when yellow is next) and his Nair combos to Usmash (for kills) and grabs even at high percents.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:

Olimars ground game is beastly. His Pikmin can be annoying since they block bananas but with two bananas but once you gain momentum as P-1 said, its very difficult for them to stop it. Just keep up the pressure. If they block a banana, instant throw it back at them if their far and Fair catch it they try to get close. And his grab range is broken and he has some damaging grab combos too (Dthrow to Fari/Usmash/Uair, Fthrow to regrabs)

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:

Usmash: Try not to be above Olimar. If you get too close, you might get hit by a falling Nair to Usmash so watch out. Expect this outve a Dthrow if you have 0% (I dont think you can escape)
Uair: Just dont be predictible when in the air. Do not try to out prioritize it, it will always beat Diddys aerials; use bananas to fall past him safely if you have one.
Uthrow (Purple)/Bthrow (Blue): Just be on your guard for these pikimin at higher percents so you can DI correctly/avoid the grab altogether.
Dsmash: Fast and deadly. Learn to read when the Olimar likes to pull this out so you PS it.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:

Fair- Nice move altogether. Outprioritizes most of his moves and kills thrown pikmin. Great for edgeguarding.
Fsmash- I actually like this move in this match up cause of its nice duration and how good it is at close quarters. Puts nice pressure on Oli, especially when hes on the ledge (beats his aerials and if he ADs to shield, hell get pushed back to the ledge so he cant shieldgrab you)
Peanuts- good for camping and edgeguarding.
Grab- I like to grab a lot in this match up. keeps the momentum going since you can easily follow up and prevents him and helps you to get him offstage.
Side-B- Mix this into your approachs to get through his pikmin and go on the offensive. The kick will kill any pikmin in your way so it great at prenatrating that wall. But as P-1 said, use both variations; if they start shielding the kick, do the grab variation. Keep them on their toes and dont let them camp again once you get through.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:

Just get throw his wall of smashes, pivot grabs, and side B while taking minimal damage (I listed some good moves above) Once your through, keep up the pressure and do NOT let up. You can not let him go back to camping. Also, get him offstage and edgeguard with bananas, peanuts, and Fair so that he hes below the stage. Remember that below the stage, his recovery is easily gimped.

Overall Character Ratio:

I believe this matchup is 5:5 on neutrals and your CPs (Frigate and RC) and 45:55 on his (Luigis, Norfair) This match up is not easy but is definitely winnable. You just need to play a little more patiently and hold the fire back until you get through his pikmin.

 

[Ingulit]

I want to say 55:45 Olimar really, really badly. Almost everyone in my crew plays Olimar :x I'll edit in my detailed info in a bit, but the main things to abuse are the fact that Pikmin can be killed mid-attack (even Smashes) or mid-Grab if you time attacks right, and even if you are about to get Grabbed you can attack Olimar (or throw a Banana) before his Pikmin reaches you to stop the Grab. Olimar has NO Grab Armor, which you need to abuse because that's half of his momentum-stopping game. I'll admit, doing all of the above is HARD... but possible.

Peanuts stop his thrown Pikmin, as already stated, and more importantly his Pikmin stop your Bananas, making getting to him very difficult. Once you do, however, if you can blow him away from his Pikmin, unless they Whistle in mid-air they won't be able to attack you with normal Pikmin moves.

Try to force Olimar above you through Banana placement and pressuring; it's one if his weaker situations.

You need to stay out of not just Grab range, but PIVOT GRAB range; it's HUGE. This is especially important while falling, because Olimar can abuse the heck out of Diddy's poor horizontal aerial speed.

Learn the trajectory of Olimar's F-Smashed Pikmin as they go off the stage; this is a common edgeguard you'll see and it will nerf your barrels if you can't avoid them.

Attack when he plucks, but be very careful; a good Olimar can cancel his pluck into an immediate F-Smash or U-Smash, so you need to stay out of range of those moves even if he's getting new Pikmin.

F-Air is an incredibly important move in this match-up. It stays out for a long time, will kill Pikmin he is using to attack, and has great range in the air (and is hard to intercept on the ground if you're approaching him diagonally). This is a great way to punish Short-Hopped Pikmin throws or other times Olimar decides to go airborne.

Dash Attack and N-Air kill Pikmin, but the former is telegraphed and, on small stages, will likely put you into range of his Grab. N-Air is just plain laggy unless you use it close to the ground to cancel it.

If Olimar grabs a Banana, expect him to camp you with Pikmin throws to mix-up when he throws the Banana; do NOT fall for this! Just rush him with F-Air or Dash Attack and take the few Pikmin latches, for he can't use any of his really long-range moves like this. Attack quickly, such that if he throws the Banana you'll catch it with your attack.

More stuff later if I can remember why I lose so much vs. DanGR, other than basic skill difference. As always, please correct me if I'm wrong with any of this.

 

[Dyyne]

I play a good diddy very often, so I know the matchup very well....but I'm terrible at explaining it, so I won't be writing too much lawl. Oli's biggest issue here is priority. Many of diddy's attacks just tear through the pikmin, even purples. Fair, dsmash, dash attack, and many more. They just kill the pikmin and hit oli, as was stated above.

Pikmin getting in the way of bananas is really not as bad as it sounds, imo. Just don't throw the bananas blindly and it isn't THAT bad of a problem. It may get annoying, but just play smart. And don't let oli get them. Keep in mind that it will probably be annoying to the olimar as well. Oli has to play especially defensive until an opening appears, which can be very tough against diddy.

Oli's roll is ****, so if you trip him, you can **** pretty hard.

Diddy's throws can gimp him pretty well.

I think that this comes out to either 50:50 or 55:45 diddy. Very fun matchup.

 

[DFEAR]

must agree with the above post. i play against a very good olimar and the matchup is quite bothersome no doubt but it is winnable.

i understand where olimar can be a real pain in the *** ya know. pikmin block and suppress dash attack combos WITH time enough for olimar to actually add a smash attack in there while ur in the middle of dash attacking his wall of pikmin. dash attack only when he is either in the middle of plucking pikmin or sh/jumping (this will result in the dash attack sending him forward enough to combo with a fair)

bananas are to be used excessively here as a projectile and spacing tool and not so much as pressure tool since well pikmin cancel out the throws. Just glide toss backwards forward throw and if he shields the banana go in for a grab do not try to catch/shield bounce the banana as it will most likely result in olimar doing a powerful upsmash or a fair . olimar excels in punishing in this matter.

when olimar is using a smash attack its basically olimar throwing a wall at you that can attack, its unpunishable even if you block the smash and Oos'ing a glide toss banana at him will only accomplish hitting that pikmin which wont die and he will punish u back by doing the same exact smash :\. ways to get around that is simply sh banana throws, sh instant throws and mindgaming/baiting the smash of course.

olimar can rack damage fast do not let him sideb you (pikmin attach) just upsmash/uptilt or upair/nair to get them all out.

gimp asap. fthrow/bthrow him off stage and fair/bair him all day. and simply grab the ledge and keep punishing. olimar has one of the fewest recovering options in this game its very sad, exploit it lol.

Punish superarmor (down b) with a double hit fsmash :3 he cant block both hits.

his grab range is broken and goes through our dash attack. grabs can kill (purple and blue pikmin)

in the air olimar has upair and nair, upair is where he twirls his pikmin above him and it racks HEAVY damage you must DI this away as much as you can. his nair is where olimar spins himself and it sets him up for a free smash attack/"combo" like an upsmash which is most common.

his trip animation is also long, destroy him for his rolls and go all out whenever he trips.

when he walks/dashes his pikmin forcably go behind him leaving his front side exposed, when he jumps he is exposed entirely.

i have yet to lose to a olimar player. diddy has too many options against olimar.

oh you can apply pressure tactics but beware of his wall lol

btw olimar is too beast in camping. lets the better judgement of one player win this matchup o.o

 

[Advent Lee]

Apparently I don't know anything about this match up, so all the help you guys are giving is extremely useful to me especially since I got rocked pretty hard by an Olimar player last tourny. But now I think I know what to do, good players always learn to adjust pretty quickly.

The way I see it is Olimar is like a fortress with peasants inside. Get through the fortress and **** the peasants lolz. I still wanna hear Wyatts analysis on this match up since I know he plays a good Olimar. And does anyone have any experience against BlackWaltz??



-L-

 

[TreK]

woah, all these walls of text are legit :o

I do know how to fight decent olimars, but i've never met one that really was a threat so I'll take notes and try to remember this when I'll need it. Really helpful, I can't say it enough :o

 

[DFEAR]

:3 lee and i went to zero ping today and wreckd the same olimar player that 2-stockd him in tourney ={P

 

[Advent Lee]

:3 lee and i went to zero ping today and wreckd the same olimar player that 2-stockd him in tourney ={P

Yea, thanks to some advice people gave I definitely was ****** today lolz. I even remember someone saying that I should stop comboing because its not brawl +

One match up down, only 99 more to go.



-EEL-

 

[DFEAR]

37 characters lee, 37 >_>.

and lol fair 4 times in a row was too good.

 

[Le_THieN]

I'm very much with Wyatt on this one. I went back to the drawing board after clinching a heart-attack-inducing last hit against Black Waltz at CoT4, and determined that there were quite a few things in this match-up that you can exploit in your favor.

Olimar's basic strategies are pretty linear: use Pikmin Throw to force your approach, and then grab or attack accordingly. For as good, frustrating and generally reliable these tactics are, they are also fairly two-dimensional and simple to exploit with proper harassment and baiting from mid-range. A mix-up of running perfect shields, glide-tossing, Monkey Kicks, and feint aerial approaches to grabs are actually quite effective in managing the mayhem of this match-up.

A lot of his attacks often blend together during the heat of the match, as Pikmin are thrown or being retracted or running back to Olimar. It's pretty imperative that you are able to distinguish between a grab, a F-smash and a Pikmin Throw; smart Olimars will only be resorting to specific moves in specific situations, anyway. This will be important because if you're relying on your vision to identify these moves, you also need to quickly respond accordingly and determine if and how you are to punish Olimar's cool-down (since the majority of his ground attacks are generally quick to begin with).

If you can contain Pikmin, minimize damage and constantly interrupt Olimar's ground control, the rest of the match-up becomes considerably less frustrating. Olimar cuts through the air with somewhat fast horizontal movement, but his aerial DI is very stiff overall; once he commits to a direction, he is generally going to stay on that trajectory. Olimar is very easy to harass with a torrent of smashed and non-smashed banana peel pulls and varied peanut arcs. If none of these successfully set you up for a spike or edge-hog of some sort, you should at least be able to force Olimar to commit to the use of Pikmin Chain. Here, his aerial DI becomes even more horrendous, and you can pretty much leave a banana peel or two for him to slip on stage upon landing, or punish his cool-down with a ledge-hopped F-air.

Also, Olimar's options dramatically diminish if he is being juggled or trapped on a platform. Once you pop him up in the air, it is not unreasonable nor impossible to keep him up there.

Everything I have mentioned are all common strategic strands that I have observed not only in my own match-up experience, but videos by both Gness and ADHD. I wasn't able to find a recorded match between Wyatt and BlackWaltz (I just saw him do his damage against BW on live stream at APEX), but here are a couple of video examples of how to manage this match-up:

• Zori (Olimar) vs. Gness (Diddy)
• Bwamp (Olimar) vs. Le THieN (Diddy)

The tempo of both matches are vastly different, but the strategic applications are basically identical.

In the very least, I believe this to be an even match-up.

 

[Count]

**** I love those writeups

My only advice is although MFK goes through the pikmin and seems very good in this matchup at first, be wary because if it is predicted the momentum can be quickly reversed.

 

[Gnes]

NO COUNT IS WRONG!!!

USE MFK Forever..its strong...Its fast...it has god priority...and your opponent will just freeze when they see it.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

NO COUNT IS WRONG!!!

USE MFK Forever..its strong...Its fast...it has god priority...and your opponent will just freeze when they see it.

Its like chuck norris....

 

[DFEAR]

more info please =3

though favor is going for adv diddy

 

[AlAxe]

those videos were very helpful. I think it's Diddy's advantage because of how easy it is to gimp Olimar.

400th post FTW!!!!!!

 

[Ingulit]

Why in God's name did you put this as Diddy's advantage?! It's Olimar 55-45 or even, but absolutely NOT Diddy 55-45! Olimar shuts down Diddy's Banana game in ways no other character can, and while it CAN be worked around, Olimar has the tools to come right back. This is even; I don't think anyone in this thread said it was Diddy's advantage >.>

And lol to whoever said it's easy to gimp Olimar. Play some good ones pl0x

 

[Dyyne]

The best tool Diddy has to gimp olimar is his grab. Once you get oli off the stage, you don't even really need to be aggresive offstage, just don't let him get ON the stage. Oli is floaty enough that he can't really fastfall onto the stage, so just watch him and grab him again when he's landing. If he rolls, chase and grab, his roll sucks. If he does a nair while landing, just shield it and grab before he gets a smash off. There's not much Oli can do while on the edge. You do not want olimar to be able to get any kind of stage control, then it becomes a bit more in his advantage. That's why it may seem extremely hard at first, but just be patient.
Try to stay away from stages with platforms.

It's possible that I'll have matches of me vs a diddy up within the next week, but if they are not up by then, they won't be up for at least 3 weeks.

 

[fource]

50-50
I only played a little today, but we both agreed the match-up is 50-50. I'll ask him to come post on the boards tomorrow. I'm tired though so I won't elaborate now.

 

[ADHD]

Okay, this is how you beat olimar. Two bananas right next to you, olimar is in front of you with pikmin. Throw banana #1 with the c-stick, throw banana #2 with the c-stick. Z-catch banana #1, throw with c-stick. Z catch banana #2, throw with c-stick. Repeat! Don't glidetoss into grab range. That is all! I could be biased but I actually think diddy has the advantage on olimar maybe, although it could also be me just being a better player than all the current olimars out there.

 

[Le_THieN]

Ingulit, I can definitely see glimmers of how Diddy can have the advantage over Olimar, especially in the not-too-distant future. Right now, I think it's even, but I think Olimar has a great deal less wiggle room to cultivate his meta-game against Diddy in to keep up with his exploit tactics sometime down the road.

 

[Dyyne]

Okay, this is how you beat olimar. Two bananas right next to you, olimar is in front of you with pikmin. Throw banana #1 with the c-stick, throw banana #2 with the c-stick. Z-catch banana #1, throw with c-stick. Z catch banana #2, throw with c-stick. Repeat! Don't glidetoss into grab range. That is all! I could be biased but I actually think diddy has the advantage on olimar maybe, although it could also be me just being a better player than all the current olimars out there.

This works really well, you'll be throwing faster than oli will be able to stop them, not to mention that he'll be almost stuck where he is and you'll be free to move if you choose so. If he shields, glidetoss in for a grab, if he rolls, same thing. If he keeps fsmashing, you'll get to him eventually.

 

[Skadorski]

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other: I think Diddy has the speed but Olimar has the range. I think Olimar would have the advantage, especially if Diddy is above Olimar, his Uair is beast.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other: I honestly think Diddy would win pretty easily if Olimar didn't have Fsmash and Usmash to kill approaches. Naners are good (like always) and can stop Olimar from spamming and gives a good approach option.


Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them: FMash kills most of your appoaches and isn't a bad damage move. It (may) stop your bananas (I don't know but i would imagine it would) because it hits the pikmin but it ends the attack, So a glide toss into it should be good to counter it. UMASH: *sigh* This move is amazing

Spoiler

ly annoying

and like no startup lag. Umm...don't go above him? Pikmin Throw: Hit the pikmin off or jump.


Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup: Dtilt, bananas, Fair, Dash Attack, Dsmash, Fsmash, Bananas.

Spoiler

lol

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup: Use The Peanut gun out of range of Pikmin Throw and when he approaches L cancel it and glide toss a naner.


Overall Character Ratio: 55-45 Diddy's advantage IMO

​

This is from PERSONAL EXPERIANCE meaning that what works with me against my friend who mains Olimar may not be even close to what the pros do.

Spoiler

It isn't Fsmash or Usmash anymore, it is now FMash and UMash.

Also I didn't do grab with Olimar because I don't know how to counter yet >.>

 

[Weruop]

i Hate this matchup. i played a serious friendly set with Nanerz and it went 1-2. i really didnt know what to do. i just played while trying to be really aware of the bananas. i think maybe its 45 55. im gunna go learn this matchup now lol

 

[iDeo]

I say this matchup is 50:50 because both characters have an almost egual advantage over the other.

Olimar can rack up an easy 50 dmg. on Diddy or any character at low percentage with a simple D-throw-->Usmash-->Uair---Uair. Also can use the Pikmin for blocking nanaz; those to alone can lead Diddy players to mental frustration. The only thing that's troubling for Olimar players in his recovery.

Meanwhile Diddy can use the nanaz for combo purposes as any1 who played or plays Diddy Kong should know, which can rack equal or more dmg. The monkey flip kick is cool for getting pass Pikmin, but for those who know that all Oli has to do is whistle-->Dsmash or any other kill move can see that that also poses a problem for Diddy b/c he's light and Oli can kill (depending on the pikmin.

 

[Weruop]

d throw to up smash is hard cuz usually when u DO grab diddy, theres a banana right in front of u, so u can initiate ur dash before the upsmash. an upair i can hit with about half of the time but if i hit 2 upairs on a diddy then chances are they arent even very good which shouldnt be relevant to matchup info. with comboing olimar can get about 20damage with d throw fair and same with up smash. upair adds it up to about 35 depending on pikmin

i didnt quite understand ur last paragraph :/ lol

 

[ADHD]

Btw if olimar has a bananana and is camping vegetables just run up to him and running shield or glide toss if you have banana then grab. He's safe to approach if he has a naner in his hand because he can't grab you.

 

[chimpact]

That's so smart! I never thought of that <_<

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

PT boards are talking about you in a MU.

I posted a link in your Advancing Diddy's metagame <_<.

 

[Lazee]

Lol wyatt rich told me he almost beat u in crews and the only reason u won is because he started with 2 stocks and u still had 3 and u were getting wrecked.any truth to this?
I played rich brown yesterday for like 3 hours and finally got the match up down,but its an uphill battle,especially when he has one of your bananas and camps with pikmin.

U have to reallly reallly focus on olimar and not the pikmin because so many of his moves look the same.when olimar is in the air throwin **** at you,glide toss a banana in his landing lag,punish with throws offstage,they have to try so hard to recover your guarenteed free damage,fasfalling a fair off stage after the throw got me pretty easy gimps.
Olimars tend to recover high because of their risk of being gimped,so if you pay attention and read recoveries spiking is relatively easy in this mu. Oh and one thing that's very important is you cant follow up banana with dash attack when its shielded,you .WILL get grabbed,wait for the trip,then follow up.patient aggresiveness is key to winning this match.
60:40 olimar

 

[ADHD]

^^^^ He would have only taken one stock off, but the stupid part is I tripped when I was going to edgehog his up b ^_^. Then he got an upsmash a few moments later. Either way, I go even with rich brown. Our matches could go either way but I didn't get to play him in a set

 

[RichBrown]

^You wouldn't have edgeguarded me, I threw a purple pikmin right where you were going, when you tripped I was confused at first because I thought the purple hit you straight down somehow, but then I realized you tripped. Regardless, the purple would have hit you and you wouldn't have edgeguarded me We still need to play a real set though, and I'm disappointed we weren't able to play more

Personally I think Olimar is better equipped to handle bananas than Diddy. So that's kinda what I go for, banana control. I'll leave it at that, since I don't want the Diddy mains all up in my secrets

Olimar: The King of Healthy Food

 

[Le_THieN]

LOL.

I call bull****. Olimar ain't ****.

 

[ADHD]

Our mods spam LOL.

Diddy already has the stage advantage over olimar. Lets say with the striking system the first match is played on battlefield (which I gaurantee it most likely will) and olimar wins. He only has halberd to go to after that (ban YI it's much worse than any other place vs olimar.) You can take him to smashville and win, and then win on halberd. This has happened to me multiple times actually. I guess I just suck randomly against olimars on the first round, bc it's not just battlefield. I love halberd vs olimar, and he has no other good cp.

 

[Lazee]

Lol le thien never thinks diddy has bad matchups ^^