Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #16~ Toon Link

[DFEAR]

Discuss 2d meets 3d. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:
​

 

[SRTM]

One of my mains... TL is very annoying. Fight spam with spam and set-up lots of banana combos. He's very light though, so try to get those kills in early.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

I have trouble with this match-up. The TLs I play rarely stay on the ground and jumps everywhere, spamming aerials and spacing zairs. It's really annoying.

 

[Rockan]

I think it should be even because there is nothing that really makes it an advantage for toon link or diddy

 

[DUB]

I think it should be even because there is nothing that really makes it an advantage for toon link or diddy

Great Post.

 

[andilex]

Great Post.

power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything and dont get spiked

 

[DFEAR]

honestly just have stage control, place bananas where TL would soon land or hit himwith a banana to land a confirmed hit with a fair/upair/bair.

bait bomb throws, instant throw them back, dont eat bairs or zairs, powershield arrows and boomerang and fsmash and zair.

at 0% dont be surprised by TL's dsmash knockback, di that mofo.

dont open urself to be footstooled midair, as footstool=dair.

just be cautious and approach only when TL is tripped or in lag. i say matchup is in our favor

 

[chimpact]

power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything power shield everything and dont get spiked

you're....... kinda annoying

Bombs stop bananas and go through them so watch out for that.
You can SDI the first hit of his fsmash to go behind him and punish with dsmash.
Last thing is try not to glidetoss out of shield to punish him, only regular throw the banana. Glidetoss takes more frames and you can usually punish the trip with a grab or dash attack if he isnt too far away.

 

[DFEAR]

try not to glidetoss out of shield to punish him, only regular throw the banana.

cant you backwards OoS GT to be safe?

 

[MxT]

I have trouble with this match-up. The TLs I play rarely stay on the ground and jumps everywhere, spamming aerials and spacing zairs. It's really annoying.

So true.

 

[jc_off_the_heezay]

I agree with a lot said here. But if your in range doesn't our monkey flip go threw arrows and boomerang as I heard? Just hump that mofo. Take momentum onto your side or they'll just projectile spam.

 

[Xionix]

agggrrroooooo

 

[Hobs]

I agree with a lot said here. But if your in range doesn't our monkey flip go threw arrows and boomerang as I heard? Just hump that mofo. Take momentum onto your side or they'll just projectile spam.

I'm pretty sure it's the kick that has priority, so you can't just go for humps.

 

[Vlade]

I have trouble with this match-up. The TLs I play rarely stay on the ground and jumps everywhere, spamming aerials and spacing zairs. It's really annoying.

Try using short hop fairs for punishing toon link's excessive jumping. A huge majority of toon link's attacks are short hopped so you want to capitalise on that as much as possible.

 

[DFEAR]

doesn't our monkey flip KICKgo threw arrows and boomerang as I heard?

it can go through arrows yes but sometimes i get hit with the boomerang :\ really depends on the timing

 

[FelixTrix]

I think praxis already said this, but to you diddy kong mains who weren't there, diddy has a dash attack-grab combo on toon link's shield. He can't do anything because his grab takes too long to come out. if he doesn't shield, he gets hit, and if he shields, he gets grab. just something that works fairly well vs. TL

 

[DFEAR]

toonlink doesnt have any oos stuff? thought his bair was oos o.o also if you hit his shield cant he just jump oos?

 

[Praxis]

Well, he CAN spotdodge before it, he just can't Shieldgrab or do anything OOS. His grab is too slow, Diddy can dash attack his shield, end the dash attack lag and grab TL before TL can shieldgrab.

TL *can* spotdodge out of it, but Diddy has *plenty* of options to cover that. So it's a guessing game (is he going to spotdodge or shieldgrab?) but it's a guessing game in which Diddy has the better options and frame advantage.

And TL usually is not going to spotdodge. It's a bad idea in general. As a result, you get a lot of free grabs out of dash attacking his shield.

So TL should really do his best not to get his shield dash attack'd, because his shield isn't safe to it. Which affects his spacing a bit.

 

[Corrupted]

frame 3 nair gg
grab works too but timing is kinda tight

 

[WindMajor]

This matchup is momentum based. Control the stage, or be controlled. TL is usually in the air, so it's slightly difficult to make him trip. It's no where near impossible though. Just stay away from the bombs, and the projectile spam.

It's a fun matchup.

 

[Heavy Metal KiLLeR]

I think it is even.

Toon Link have a very nice air game and diddy can't make us trip so easily. TL can jump and spamm bombs, TL can jump and throw the boomerang, and of course, TL got nice aerials.
TL generally likes to jump and spamm xD

Diddy Kong can put a pressure game on TL if he can't keep the spacing, and like praxis said, dash atack is good and Toon can't punish it so easily (ok, we have nair and bair oos). We can't garb diddy too much, he's fast...

TL can catch the bananas with nair easily, so you diddys should be carefull...
The zair outranges diddy, and can be a nice spacing weapon. And we can use it while holding a banana =D

Diddy will have trouble to kill, and Toon Link too. Gimp is pretty even too, altought TL have the boomerang to make diddy have bad times off the stage.

 

[Ghnaschnakoff]

Could barrel cancelling come in handy at all in this MU?

I played a fairly good TL at the last tourney I went to and just powershielded everything waiting for him to land and just GT > dash attack combo or grab.

Also, peanuts help a bit aswell. lol

 

[Kaptain Kong]

barrel canceling is pretty unreliable so i wouldn't think so, also tl is in the air alot where barrels are less likely to hit anyway

 

[DFEAR]

more posts. but its lookin even to me...

 

[Pho]

Be slightly worried if Toon Link has a banana. Zair -> banana toss regardless if it's blocked or not will lead to a grab or an upsmash for a kill if the banana hits. Place bananas forcing Toon Link to come in close, and land a dash attack to start your momentum.

 

[dvon21]

I think it is even.



Diddy Kong can put a pressure game on TL if he can't keep the spacing, and like praxis said, dash atack is good and Toon can't punish it so easily (ok, we have nair and bair oos). We can't garb diddy too much, he's fast...

IMO, the pressure game in this matchup is key, obviously camping is very hard against a good TL spammer. My favourite way to get pressure going is either to space correctly with banana placement (waiting for the TL to land), while powershielding neverending projectiles then waiting for the mistake to punish with a DA/grab. Or run powershield and Oos GT. If he shields it then DA to grab works well and even to mixup the game a SH fair which will keep you spaced.

I like to do mutliple dtilt to grab or SH fair often I always get punished.. the TL I play will DI down shield get pushed back out of range and then tether grab me.

What uses could we find for diddy`s dtilt in this matchup?

 

[dvon21]

Diddy will have trouble to kill, and Toon Link too. Gimp is pretty even too, altought TL have the boomerang to make diddy have bad times off the stage.

I don't know if gimping is even.. TL has a crazy 1hit KO gimp tech with his dsmash you can DI it so you just have to be weary of it.

Taken from the TL thread:

Similar to the last one. Toon will Full hop Bomb pull on the way up, fast fall an Invincibomb then hit the opponent with the First hit of D-smash and have the second hit of D-smash interrupted by the explosion of the bomb.

 

[Ingulit]

I don't know if gimping is even.. TL has a crazy 1hit KO gimp tech with his dsmash you can DI it so you just have to be weary of it.

Taken from the TL thread:

Has anyone actually used that in a tournament yet? I was thinking about it the other day, but I don't hear about anyone actually using it

Regardless, I thought Diddy was one of the characters that can get back after getting hit by that... right?

Spoiler

Avoid double posting if you can; you can edit your first post instead

 

[dvon21]

Well, lately my friend has been maining TL and he's pulling them off but nope i don't think i've ever seen it in a tourney.. and according to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dI_GS3u0gE we have a 55% rate of survival. Better than most but still leaves us vulnerable

 

[DFEAR]

Well, lately my friend has been maining TL and he's pulling them off but nope i don't think i've ever seen it in a tourney.. and according to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dI_GS3u0gE we have a 55% rate of survival. Better than most but still leaves us vulnerable

we can side-b>charged b reversal> up onto the stage. versatile and mixable recoveries

we can survive if not read

 

[Ingulit]

Well, lately my friend has been maining TL and he's pulling them off but nope i don't think i've ever seen it in a tourney.. and according to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dI_GS3u0gE we have a 55% rate of survival. Better than most but still leaves us vulnerable

They underestimate Diddy's recovery, badly. We have options even if we get hit by this.

I seriously want to see a tournament match where someone has used it now

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other: TL's airials can wreck you. Your fair is really the only thing that might compete with his friggen hitboxes. I wouldn't even try to compete with him in the air unless he's in hitstun. That back air is gonna combo you a couple times so stay away. Dair will bounce on shield so don't get out early, his uair will ruin you if you don't watch for it and his forward air is fairly good. look out. Throw that fair out there.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other: Your tilts can space him I believe. His sword doesn't go very far on the ground (Aside from fsmash.) He's gonna spam the crap outta you. In between his bombs arrows and boomerang it's REALLY difficult to get any banana game going. His projectiles win. Hands down. Hold on to a banana and wait for him to land, because he's going to spend a lot of time in the air.

Moves to avoid and how to avoid them: Zair can space you a lot when you try to approach. He will also try c-stick dash attack into dsmash. For the zair just don't be hasty with your airial and ground approach. Have a banana ready to help cover your approach. Stay away from the bair because he can combo with it. That shouldn't be terribly hard though. just be cautious. BOMBS. Bombs will set up combos and TL will destroy you with em if you aren't careful. Perfect sheild if you can for those bombs. Air dodge catch them if you can when he's in the air. And be wary of distraction projectiles. Some will just set you up for the next.

Moves to Utilize: Fair is the only airial you should probably be using. Tilts on the ground.

Personal Strategies: This is a tough one. A really tough one. Use those bananas and peanuts when he's off the stage alot, just to put a few extra points of damage while he's recovering. Most likely you won't get a spike in there because of his hitboxes.. Keep him grounded by jumping and throwing your bananas. Be ready to throw bananas above you in case of tl's dair. Beware while you recover!

Overall Character Ratio: 60:40 in TL's favor. Maybe 65:35 in tl's favor.

 

[Grizzer]

about the video, they really didnt make the best of diddy's recovery, it seems as though we have pretty much more than 70% chance :D we can easily go over the ledge and maybe even use sideB (he probably didnt use it because it would mean he could get spiked)

 

[Ingulit]

about the video, they really didnt make the best of diddy's recovery, it seems as though we have pretty much more than 70% chance :D we can easily go over the ledge and maybe even use sideB (he probably didnt use it because it would mean he could get spiked)

If you read the thread, you'd know he didn't use Side-B because he thought he couldn't Up-B afterward. They SERIOUSLY misjudged Diddy's recovery; getting hit by that tech would put us in a bad place, but we should be able to make it back at least 90% of the time, if not always.

 

[Iofsauron]

Yes, Toon Link is a very annoying character mostly for the aerial game. However, Diddy does have his good air game too.

Ground game, I think its pretty even there too. Toon Link can spam projectiles and is good on ground, but Diddy can lay a beating on TL if he is using the advantage of his bananas.

Both can be hit fairly enough with their moves, if their smart. Id give it neutral, 50-50

 

[Count]

Ick, who decided this is even? I'm not saying its not but I don't know much about the matchup and I've always considered it at least slightly in toon link's favor.