Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #14~ Pickachu

[DFEAR]

Discuss Small, Yellow and Mean with a dose of Cute. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:
​

 

[ADHD]

Like, you just do stuff and it works. I don't know, SOMETHING relative to Diddy Kong.

 

[rvkevin]

Throw bananas, DI out of Dsmash, don't get hit by lightning, shield electric shocks. That's about it.

 

[Conti]

Do this...

Like, you just do stuff and it works. I don't know, SOMETHING relative to Diddy Kong.

and this....

Throw bananas, DI out of Usmash, don't get hit by lightning, shield electric shocks. That's about it.

And please dont forget... That Dammm D-Smash... Sucks you in like a wormhole...

 

[Kenrawr]

I agree with everything said so far.

The OP's pickture misspelled pikachu l:<

Spoiler

if it's an inside joke I'm sorry ;-;

 

[The Sìrén]

Lol.

Adhd Ftw.

 

[Ingulit]

I'm seriously losing faith in the Diddy boards being a community willing and wanting to participate in intelligent conversation.

Let me edit in my take on Pikachu later. I've been waiting for this thread.

 

[Conti]

I'm seriously losing faith in the Diddy boards being a community willing and wanting to participate in intelligent conversation.

Let me edit in my take on Pikachu later. I've been waiting for this thread.

im not too intelligent on this matchup sorry

 

[jc_off_the_heezay]

Will edit for my input later.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Like, you just do stuff and it works. I don't know, SOMETHING relative to Diddy Kong.

Quite literally, listen to ^that^ guy....

As a fairly good pikachu who've faced some decent-to-good diddy's in my area and OoS, if both players are at the top of their game, you just do stuff and it works or fails.

Most of the time, I've beaten pretty much all the diddy's i've faced--that or have always put up a really good fight with Diddy sweating bullets. At the same time, I can't really come up with a clear-cut reason of "How" i did it. If i lost, they just did stuff that i didn't guess right. If i won, i just did stuff they didn't guess right. Nothing in particular stands out to me in this matchup.

Diddy is just so versatile, that just about anyone good can play however the crap they wanted and do well--that would mean a pikachu-counter for EACH single playstyles. You guys can like banana glide-toss 8 different ways and easily choose NOT to glidetoss. You can choose to pick up bananas and use them or just keep them on the floor and zone. Some can just plain **** without much bananas against some players.

I am doing this thing in the pikachu boards called, "LDPK's (me) battle diary" which is this spiel of what goes on through my head when i am in battle. So... i don't know if it helps at all... but i'll just transcribe what i think during a Diddy Fight:

3, 2, 1, GO!

I rush foward and grab/short hop f-air/u-air anticipating Diddy is pulling out his nanners. If he doesn't start pulling out nanners, I stop out of the range of d-tilt/f-tilt/jab and pull up my shield and proceed with OoS stuff if Diddy is closing in or start mindgaming with close range t-jolts. 1) If they are the type to go under the t-jolts, I'll start full hopping retreating jolts and do more autocancelled d-airs and run>shieldgrab mindgames. 2) if they are the type to full hop straight up f-air me and my jolt, then i'll add some f-air/u-air/thunder mindgames to my full-hop advancing t-jolt. 3) If they are the powershielding type, more autocanceled d-airs come out and grab mindgames and d-tilts for zoning--possibly add some shieldpoking f-airs. If they foward b, depending on my spacing i'd spotdodge, rising n-air, shield>u-smash, or just do thunder (most of the time when diddy kong is offstage).

If Diddy has nanners, then my job is to not get hit by any of them (my lil' bro plays samus and Toon Link quite well, so my projectile dodging/catching skills are going to be required). I'd use double jump more (mostly retreating) > t-jolt more cuz that'll allow me to pull out an attack before i hit the ground (f-air>grab>juggle mindgames) or QaC to a different landing spot if Diddy tries to snipe my landing with nanners. If a Diddy throws a nanner at me, I'd mostly shield>rising (retreating) n-air--that way if the Diddy is even a little bit off in his spacing, his f-air will either miss me, his grab will get n-aired in the face, I will have his banana, regardless i won't get more than 25% damage cuz i don't get nanner combo'ed. I'd freely take aerials if i must if it means i don't get early nanner combo'ed to kill or something.

When Diddy has nanners, i just try to read where he's throwing them. If he retreats with mindgames and glidetosses i'll just spam more t-jolts hoping for missed powershields and residual shieldpoke damage or start QaC'ing towards Diddy AFTER the instant he throws the nanner. If he aggressively throws it (foward glide-toss/normal throw/sh throw), I'd attempt to rush>shield>immediate rising N-air or autocancelled d-air or f-air depending on where the nanner lands. If he throws down during any of his foward glide-tosses, it's a tossup of whether i should try attempting to n-air out of shield and retreat (set up camp) or advance or just grab on the spot.

What i do when nanners are on the floor. I take them while covering myself up with an aerial at the same time and throw them straight up continuously (if i can afford to pick nanners up), or jump z-drop them/glidetoss them OoS if Diddy is close ranged, or just get near them and bank (if 2 are near me) and do residual t-jolt/f-smash/d-smash/othermove damage if they are noob and carelessly try to pick them up. The reason i throw the nanners up is only because the nanners are not going to dissappear as fast (so you'll need to wait longer or just come after me if you want nanners back) and as they are falling i have at least some zoning control (plus if Diddy tries to recatch them mid-air, Pika's u-air is his fastest aerial and preferred juggling move).

Offstage, it depends on whether diddy has used his side-b or not yet. If he hasn't i'd just meet him eye-level and use thunder and space it so that thunder's invincibility will hit you or the rod will hit me out of your side-b grab version after you've grabbed me (I'll take the lesser amount of damage and can still sweetspot the ledge before Diddy). Another option if the diddy has a nanner is to advance offstage REAL LOW (so that diddy's d-air will kill himself if done) and do a wall of thunder>QA sweetspot>more walls of thunder/edgeguard. There are some other options i'd do but those are the more common things i'd try first (just me personally...).

Those are all the things that i go through my mind in the middle of combat that are "Diddy-specific." There's a buttload more trap setups/mindgames/priority/jab-cancel-crap stuff that are just common in all matchups that'd I'd also watch out for, but won't go into detail as much cuz the good players should know what to do from there.

Literally, Diddy is just too versatile to type up any definitive counter/strategy in one post. Mix up your recovery. Just do crap, let crap happen, and avoid crap.

I hope this helps even a lil bit.

*disclaimer: LDPK (me) plays pika well, but does not represent the normal pika... lol. You agree that LDPK is waived from all responsibility for damages, losses, and embarrassment that You may experience because you've listened to him. lol. ^_^

 

[bmaster77]

you spelled pikachu wrong lol

 

[Ingulit]

you spelled pikachu wrong lol

I give up. All the Diddy boards are good for anymore is peanut jokes. ****

EDIT: On a more serious note, I need to get the Pikachu main I used to play all the time to play Brawl again so I can remember how this match-up works for me. Cam, if you're reading this, start playing again! rawr

 

[Pika_Cam]

I give up. All the Diddy boards are good for anymore is peanut jokes. ****

EDIT: On a more serious note, I need to get the Pikachu main I used to play all the time to play Brawl again so I can remember how this match-up works for me. Cam, if you're reading this, start playing again! rawr

Come to Auburn then. I'll play you. I'm just not playing in tournaments anymore.

I would like to hear a serious discussion from the Diddys about this matchup. I think a lot of the top Diddy players take it for granted that the mid level players know how to win it.

 

[Gnes]

Like, you just do stuff and it works. I don't know, SOMETHING relative to Diddy Kong.

This is expected...since u hardly ever give legit advice. Ill put my cents in later.

Lol.

Adhd Ftw.

Dont feed stupidity.

I'm seriously losing faith in the Diddy boards being a community willing and wanting to participate in intelligent conversation.

Let me edit in my take on Pikachu later. I've been waiting for this thread.

Hanson's been gone a long time son. I wonder who's the mod that's suppose to watch us, im feeling risky

 

[Count]

I will weigh in on this matchup soon the MW has quite a few pikas and I've played anther a handful of times. Its definitely our advantage. Night-night for now!

 

[jc_off_the_heezay]

I will weigh in on this matchup soon the MW has quite a few pikas and I've played anther a handful of times. Its definitely our advantage. Night-night for now!

You should really play Anther also speak to him about the matc-up maybe he can help.

 

[Kaptain Kong]

You should really play Anther also speak to him about the matc-up maybe he can help.

anther is crazy with pika, especially with the uair-footstool to QAC and jab lock stuff

 

[Pika_Cam]

No love for pikachu anymore? I was hoping to see more of a consensus on this matchup soon. Pikachus are calling it 55:45 for Diddy and the last I saw on here called it 65:35 I believe. That's a pretty big difference in opinion.

 

[DFEAR]

from playing ESAM (csam lol) in tourney id say the matchup is even or slightly in diddy's favor. just dont make careless mistakes with either his or your projectiles. you "could" barrel cancel the jolts but its high risk- low reward so it is not worth it, its just easier power shielding the jolts and approach when safe. dont be careless with ur recovery, a sour pikachu nair can actually gimp u. in beginning %'s pickachu can "cg" u into a upsmash into an air tech chase, i guess just be cautious. Smash di any pikachu move that would u send u directly above him, you could eat a nasty air combo or worse a thunder kill, again just dont be stupid. diddy is very versatile in this matchup, so many mixups hence why i kinda lean towards diddy's favor. i seriously think you just have to be cautious with this matchup.

this needs more serious posts.

 

[TreK]

I beat Blad's Pikachu yesterday, **** pika has to play really gay to have a chance in this matchup, it's stupid =O

 

[DUB]

I beat Blad's Pikachu yesterday, **** pika has to play really gay to have a chance in this matchup, it's stupid =O

I'm going to try Pika as my secondary. How do I get to France to see your Diddy?

So my first real time playing Pika yesterday, I have a couple little things.

As a true Diddy main I picked Pikachu in training mode and went straight to FD. I ordered 2 naners and began playing with them. Pikachu can single dribble and double naners. The toss is not as far as Diddys but it still provides decent enough movement for a GT. That's the GT you use for dribbling. If you time it (very early in the roll I think) Pikachu has a long glide toss.

 

[Dekar173]

DI out of Dsmash (rotate your directional stick in quarter circles up, and mash the c-stick up, you'll pop out after taking about 3-5%)

Usmash is a killer, as is nair (unfortunately for Pikas, they tend to stale their nair, leaving that out of the mix )

fsmash is very easy to avoid, not to mention it must be sweetspotted (the part closest to Pika's face) in order to have kill power.

Dtilt can trip.

Jab is pretty useless against you (assuming you have a naner in hand) and can almost always be retaliated against.

9 times out of 10 your Diddy hump/kick will go over him. Pikachu is gay.

You can not SHfair a grounded pikachu. It goes right over him.

QaC is most easily interrupted by Diddy Kick, which at worst will either miss or trade hits (you take 1-2, he takes 9-13, good trade )

His trip animation is FOREVER. Seriously, naner locking a pika across the stage is extremely easy to do, even if you're not glidetossing.

Bair can be DI'd out of.

His glidetoss is good, but also difficult for him to space properly, because if he has spaced it properly, odds are you have enough time to *insert option here* on reaction, plus other players tend to be **** predictable with our naners XD

Tjolt will gimp you if he catches your barrels offstage, as has been stated be careful when recovering.

When Pikachu is hit by his own thunder, he has invincibility frames, so be careful about punishing his downB, if at all. Sometimes it's better to just recollect yourself instead of going for the punish.

Most pikachus have a pattern to their QaC, so if you can watch your opponent while he's playing someone else and study it, good, if not then try and learn it midgame

Things to watch out for:

Tjolt spam (powershield, SH > naner is really good for punishing the camp)
fthrow > usmash (unavoidable at low percents, don't get grabbed!)
thunder (slowwwww BUT if he uses it and you're above him, it comes out faster than you'd think)
Autocanceled dairs, second hit dairs (it has a hitbox when it hits the stage)
fair (DI out!)
dsmash (DI out!)
bair (again, DI out)
dair (shield it, fair can beat it while trading sometimes, bair always beats it if spaced properly)

Things we can do:

naner locking made even easier
his sideB can be beaten out by bair, or sometimes spaced into a dair (while he's recovering)
Diddy Kick the QaC
Diddy Kick through Tjolt spam
hardcore punishment on jabs
DI out of dsmash > punish
fair eats through tjolt/his aerials
QaC has LAG at the end of his QaC spamming (once he touches the ground and stays there) ABUSE IT!



Good luck

 

[TreK]

How do we must DI the fair ?

Oh, and jab 1 clanks with tjolts and it's really, really easy to time, use and abuse it when you don't have a banana or want some room

 

[Kaptain Kong]

How do we must DI the fair ?

Oh, and jab 1 clanks with tjolts and it's really, really easy to time, use and abuse it when you don't have a banana or want some room

Up and away works for me

if you jab, the clank will send you back a couple steps so make sure you walk towards pika between the bolts

 

[Pika_Cam]

A couple of things to add, but overall Dekar is spot on.

The dsmash can be DIed out of, but you really can't punish it after getting out. If anything, the pikachu could tech chase you out of it, especially considering we rarely face opponents who don't DI out. Honestly, I don't even consider it a kill move. Pikachus will sometimes do dsmash before you land to catch you in it and give you much less time to get out.

Thunder is very deadly if you hit at the base or up top near the cloud. Pikachu has some combos that string into thunder, so watch out. My personal favorite is FF fair > utilt > thunder. If you do get hit up, my best advice is to get as far away to the left or right as possible with DI and get as low as you can too. This makes it much harder to hit with and most Pikachus will either miss or back off if you DI properly. Be careful with the side b recovery because a Pikachu could easily catch you with thunder if he predicts it.

Speaking of FF fair, just shield FF fair and grab Pikachu out of it. Getting hit by a FF fair leads into several painful combos. For instance:

FF fair > utilt (yes, it can be DIed, but it usually isn't)
FF fair > grab
FF fair > dtilt
FF fair > downsmash

If you learn to deal with FF fair, then you learn to deal with a lot of Pikachu's comboing.

Oh yeah, and don't get grabbed. It has been said, but I just wanted to reemphasize it. Grab can also lead to combos.

EDIT:

"Most pikachus have a pattern to their QaC, so if you can watch your opponent while he's playing someone else and study it, good, if not then try and learn it midgame "

Sadly, this is true. As much as we try to throw people off, we're still human. We fall into patterns of approaching with QAC or just places we will go. There's a limited number of places Pikachu can go with QAC considering that he has to touch the ground again. QAC is more for mindgames and approaching than anything. It doesn't do that much damage when it hits and it's easy to punish Pikachu for doing it =(

 

[win_ftw]

the di for the downsmash dekar described, (1/4 circles with directions, up with c) is fantastic. before i knew about the 1/4 circle part i just held to the side pika was facing when he used the move, and i got out like, maybe a few % after the 1/4 way thing. if youre not really that confident with your stick skill yet, the quarter circle motion can be kinda weird to get used to. practice it, but you can use the other one as well.

it went from being my worst enemy to not a big deal.


uhhh.... the only other really hard thing is pikas gimping with jolts and nair, but i dont really have much advice besides stay up above the stage for recovery. (with respect to tunder as well. O.o)


60:40 diddy, imo, didys short list of advantages being those silly nanerz and the low weight of pika helping diddys killing power stuffs.


spike over-b moar, if theyre noobish enough to use it.

my question: peanut gun, good/bad in this MU??

 

[Ingulit]

spike over-b moar, if theyre noobish enough to use it.

my question: peanut gun, good/bad in this MU??

Side-B is pretty essential to Pika's recovery, so it's not that they're "noobish" when they use it... they do because they have to. Good for us, if we can time our spike (and not get hit due to our lack of disjoints ><).

The Popgun is stopped entirely by TJolts, and Pikachu has so many long-lasting multi-hit moves that they don't have to time an attack as well as most and they'll still bust your Nuts. Skull Bash goes right though them, and Quick Attack breaks them mid-omgI'maline-ness (I don't know what that state is called). You CAN Popgun them out of the initial frames of a QA or during the postlag, but good luck with that (you have better options most of the time anyway).

 

[Pika_Cam]

Side-B is pretty essential to Pika's recovery, so it's not that they're "noobish" when they use it... they do because they have to. Good for us, if we can time our spike (and not get hit due to our lack of disjoints ><).

He speaks the truth, and side b is safer than quick attack sometimes because if you miss the ledge with skull bash, you can still quick attack.

 

[win_ftw]

you both right, my apologies for the 'N' word.

i play against two pikas mainly, one is great and one is decent, and the decent one side-b's really high a lot.

thus, noob.

and thanks for the peanut stuff, i was trying to use it for a while, but im stopping it nao.

 

[DUB]

Couple Things:

Pikachu's Grounded Item Toss Frame Data: ( Straight from the lovely Pikachu Boards)

Foward Toss(Ground
Start up: 1-11
throw 12
Cooldown: 13-28

Back Toss (Ground)
Start up: 1-13
throw 14
Cooldown: 15-28

Down Toss (Ground)
Start up: 1-7
throw 8
Cooldown: 9-21

Up Toss (Ground)
Start up: 1-14
throw 15
Cooldown: 16-28

As you can see, not too speedy.

---

If you don't know about it yet I will save you the embarrassment. Pikachu's D-tilt Will Lock against a wall for an good/gay amount of damage.

 

[DFEAR]

Pikachu's D-tilt Will Lock against a wall for an good/gay amount of damage.

can it combo to uptilt/upsmash/thunder? no chance of teching? o.o ughhhh delfino gonna suck

 

[Nitrix]

This is kinda like the Game and Watch matchup. Its all about starting the combo and then using their trip animation to wreck them