Diddy Kong's Barrels of Matchups~ Character #1~ MetaKnight

[DFEAR]

Okay, im redoing ALL AND EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER MATCH-UP SO THE INDEX THREAD IS UP-TO-DATE!!! /caps

To start things off

Discuss Metaknight. Input as MUCH info as needed + the following.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Overall Character Ratio:
​

 

[white peachy]

Even matchup on Neutrals. Slight to moderate disadvantage on most counter pick stages (except PS1 which is probably even). MK is beast in the air, better than diddy. Diddy has a slight advantage on the ground. Strategy...if they try to dair camp you, camp them back and space and uthrown banana underneath them and follow with an aerial. Diddy hump release if you get it offstage. Umm, metaknight has like 5 or so moves you need to avoid but I think everyone knows what they are lmao. Up angle your shield against tornado. He can gimp you if you're not smart everytime you're offstage, and sometimes even if you are smart, he can still gimp you because of his insane edguarding.

 

[Underload]

45-55 Metaknight. 40-60 at the worst.

There's absolutely no way it's even. Metaknight can render bananas useless by either taking over one of your bananas, or staying in the air where naners won't do anything at all besides deal ~7% damage. Diddy has to either be great at punishing MK whenever he hits the ground, or play to MK's rules and meet him in the air, where Diddy will promptly get tornado'd or be punished.

Stages shouldn't come into discussion in a matchup thread, in the end it skewers the results because characters function differently on every stage.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other: Metaknight wins.
Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other: Diddy Kong wins against an inexperienced Metaknight.
Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them: Metaknight can stay in the air and dair / nado camp till the cows come home. Diddy can bait Metaknight to the ground. This requires great banana control and punishing skills.
Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup: Peanuts and his quickest aerials.
Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup: Although stages shouldn't make a difference, just be good at seeing playstyles and counterpicking accordingly.
Overall Character Ratio: 45:55 to 40:60 Metaknight.

Spoiler

Please don't make matchups look even or in Diddy's favor just so you can make him look better. Be rational :/

 

[Player-1]

In my opinion, the matchup is 55:45 in MK's favor. I believe he's an even matchup on FD and SV, and then 55:45 on BF and YI. Out of the starter stages through counter pick stages on the SBR rule set, I believe them all to be 55:45 except Brinstar, Japes, Rainbow Cruise, and Frigate, which I believe to be 60:40 in MK's favor. Although I haven't ever played the stage competitively, I think Pirate Ship has potential to be a 50:50 simpy because of the water prevents you from being gimped, but on the other hand you can take a **** load of damage because of it.

If MK starts to Dair camp you, then start shooting peanuts, and be ready to shield if he tornados, remember to move your shield around so that it doesn't shield poke you. Your Utilt and Usmash also beat the Dair when he's above you. If you have a banana in hand, then either keep it and wait for the nado, then punish the nado with an OoS GT, or you can just throw it up and control his aerial movement.

The key problem I see in this matchup is how well MK can gimp you, you get gimped when you're trying to recover or you take a lot of damage. Usually, when i face any good MK player, it's either I get gimpe and lose or I don't get gimped and I win.To avoid being gimped by MK you want to use your side-b as far up as you can and then start DIing towards the stage and avoid all of MK's attacks with air dodges or your midair jump if you have it left, or if you're near the very edge of the blast zone then you can use then, but if you're recovering when you're on level of the stage or below then you usually want to ignore your side-b and just go for the up-b to the stage.

Now MK can't use the bananas to his advantage very well, but he can get a hold of them a lot better with his Fair, Nair, and dash attack, but as long as you have the other banana with you then you have the advantage.

In this matchup, you usually ALWAYS want to have at least one banana under your control. Having a banana in your hand puts you on an even playing field in terms of speed with just about every move MK has, and since you have the range advantage since you have a banana in your hand, you can just about punish every grounded attack MK has.

plus you can DHGR >foostool MK, which means 100-0 in Diddy's favor.

Edit:@Underload, you've got it wrong, a Diddy who knows how to deal with an MK who relies on dair camping get destroyed, it's simple, just force them to the ground with lunch, and then punish once he's on the ground.

 

[Underload]

Edit:@Underload, you've got it wrong, a Diddy who knows how to deal with an MK who relies on dair camping get destroyed, it's simple, just force them to the ground with lunch, and then punish once he's on the ground.

Okay. You're probably more experienced than me, so I believe you.

 

[fource]

I'm going to cover the areas mentioned up top and hopefully it will cover the match-up entirely.

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Meta Knight has superior air game simply for the fact that none of his aerials clash. Therefore Meta Knight only needs his sword to hit any part of Diddy's body. So if we try to Fair we have to hit Meta Knight's body while he needs to lightly graze our toes.
However, this does not mean that Diddy's aerials are obsolete. Diddy air game is still very fast so both Fair and Bair are amazing in this match-up. You must make sure to use them on the stage though.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
THIS IS THE KEY TO WINNING THE MATCH-UP! With adequate perfect stage control Diddy will have a significantly higher chance of winning this match. The way I've thought of this lately is this; visually divide a stage into five (5) equal parts, of those five parts, Diddy should almost always be within the three (3) center pieces. I think it is okay for Diddy to "ride" the lines holding pieces one and two and four and five together as long as he is planning on moving toward the center.

This is wear passive aggressive play comes in. Do NOT run in ready to throw all of your bananas away. Instead, wait for Meta Knight to draw out a couple moves, then move in to punish. If both of your bananas get power shielded then you will most likely be taken away from your bananas making it exponentially harder to maintain your stage control.
(I'm not saying aggressive play is not right, because we have all seen NL and some others do it successfully, I just personally prefer passive aggressive play)

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Tornado. In all honesty, a lot of Meta Knights do not understand how much this move hurts Diddy. If we were as big as D3, it would basically be equally bad. In my opinion this is the reason why Diddy should ALWAYS have both bananas out and both ready to use. If you do not have bananas though, FTilt stops tornado.

Fsmash: DO NOT RUN TOWARD A CHARGING FSMASH! YOU WILL GET HIT! Same goes if the Meta Knight begins to stutter step backward FSmash continuously (*glares at Affinity*). Even if you power shield the hit, you'll be hit by a DSmash or a grab. Meta Knight's FSmash is the 2nd most luring attack, you will want to run toward it. Just pluck bananas or throw the one your already have in your hand.

Recovering. I've realized this has become significantly harder as the meta game has expanded. If the Meta Knight hovers under the stage while you're charging your barrels, get ready to be gimped. Diddy's barrels act like Snake's Cypher in the sense that if Meta Knight shuttle loops it, Diddy is basically done while Meta Knight can shuttle loop again (granted he takes 22 damage instead of about 3, Diddy loses a stock which is more significant) Neutral air can also do this but it's harder to hit with. Mix up your recovery distances and try to aim toward the middle of the stage instead of the ledges if Meta Knight does this. You'll be punished but it's better than a stock loss.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Glide tossing forward and backward are good. On stage Meta Knight will apply a lot of pressure so dribble to FSmash/DSmash works beautifully. I've been using USmash a lot OoS lately but I think BAir OoS is better. Although USmash deals 4-6 more damage it's easier to punish. Grabs and pummeling works great in this match up too. Do not get trigger happy with DSmash, it's good but has a LOT of lag after it and it will start to get punished.

DTilt is really, really good...it's probably Diddy's fastest ground move and helps with spacing A LOT. If you hit him at low percents you can DTilt two to three times then either run away and pluck bananas or possibly charge him and dash grab if the Meta Knight is holding shield. At higher percents the DTilt will send him flying so you can regroup or continue to apply pressure.

What I said earlier I will confirm, if you do not have a banana in hard. Your OoS option should be to take to the air. USmash and DSmash are both becoming more and more obsolete OoS unless you are trying to mix it up. If you do have a banana in hand glide tossing is very reliable for the most part. Even if it get's power shielded you have options after that. If you do not want to glide toss, then jumping and throwing the banana down into a FAir has been pretty successful for me. If they are that close though, my preference is dribble to FSmash.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Passive Aggressive Play. Control the stage and don't go for normally easy gimps. Always have two bananas on the stage. Most of my personal strategies are mentioned above.

Overall Character Ratio:
55-45 Meta Knight's favor

 

[DFEAR]

BUMP, would like to hear at least 2-3 more peoples opinions before deciding the matchup and moving on to the next character, btw posts like 4rce would be super helpful towards this matchup thread.

 

[Ninja Edd]

This match is EVEN 50/50. Diddy wins 55/45 on FD, smashville, yoshi's island and 50/50 on lylat and BF.

PS1 and Frigate is even, it just depends on the stage. If PS1 is neutral Diddy wins but once its changes i would say it would go to Meta just because Diddy's banana game changes. On Frigate Meta wins at the starting part but once it flips its your stage just camp the middle with bananas and you shouldnt have a problem, it just becomes another neutral for you. RC and Brinstar are probaly 60/40 in Meta's favor so just ban one (most likely RC). Delfino and Halberd are 55/45 Meta, and Castle Siege is even, Meta wins the 1st part and 2nd when statues are up and Diddy wins the 2nd with no statues and 3rd, he also wins durning the changing of the stage. All other stages are ban or should be so i didnt include dumb stages like JJ and Norfair.

There's no need to explain why each of them win on these stages it should be obvious. Also like i said this match is EVEN and if you think otherwise you probaly suck at this game. Im not great at this game either, but i have a brain and i also live in the region with the 2 best Diddys (and almost every other character).
Both NinjaLink and ADHD should have beaten M2K the last time they played, but NL gets his barrels blow up when he is clearly on the stage and ADHD just runs off the stage like a moron so he gets gimped multiple times, but still almost wins.

Diddy should also be 4th on the tier list above Falco( the top 4 go even with each other) and he has potenial to be the best in the game. We still havent figured a way to land the single nanaer lock and thats just like an auto spike and probaly kill if you do it right plus there's probaly a bunch of things no one as figured out yet either. So just win on a neutral, lose on there CP but if your good you'll win, then CP to your stage and win.

This match is 50/50 and you think Meta is broken gtfo Diddy is, he can trip you whenever he wants, I say ban Diddy over Meta lol

 

[Player-1]

Also like i said this match is EVEN and if you think otherwise you probaly suck at this game.



This match is 50/50 and you think Meta is broken gtfo Diddy is, he can trip you whenever he wants, I say ban Diddy over Meta lol

your whole post made me laugh, particularly these 2 quotes.

 

[Ninja Edd]

your whole post made me laugh, particularly these 2 quotes.

LOL its so true though, people need to stop whining about this game and just learn matchups. I would love to fight only Meta's in tourneys since i find it to be even and plus its just a fun *** match up. Also no ones opinion (including myself) really matter except ADHD, NL, M2K and other top Meta's. Maybe AZ and le_thien as well but ADHD and NL are better (and they also live by me so it will help me if i need advice).

Also a quote from Wes after losing to ADHD (or close enough) "Seriously, it makes no sense, he throws a banana at my face and i trip, do you want me to throw banana at your head, cause you'll probaly trip, man this **** makes no sense." lol

 

[AvaricePanda]

BUMP, would like to hear at least 2-3 more peoples opinions before deciding the matchup and moving on to the next character, btw posts like 4rce would be super helpful towards this matchup thread.

Shouldn't these be weekly discussions? We haven't gotten to hear like any debate and no MK mainers have came into this thread, we've just been seeing a couple of points.

@Ninja Edd: Saying "this matchup is even and if you don't think so you probably suck," doesn't help at all, because:

-You aren't defending your point on why it's even.
-You aren't helping Diddy's actually learn the matchup.

Matchup numbers shouldn't matter much anyway, given that they're subjective numbers not based on anything strictly factual, and people interpret different things in the matchup to be more weighty than others. Some Diddy's believe that MK's gimp game is really detrimental to the matchup, while other Diddy's believe that his gimp game is really avoidable. Different opinions=different numbers.

But that isn't even the point. The point of a matchup thread isn't to figure out the number, the point is to help Diddy's get better at the matchup. The matchup number is a nice thing to know, but it's pointless if the character doesn't know how to play the matchup.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

To start, Ninja Edd you are a f****ing idiot.


Now that we got that out of the way.....

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:

It is obvious that metaknight wins in the air. With precision timing and spacing it is possible for diddy to sneak in some uairs and fairs (during shuttle loops is a good time), but it is an uphill battle. Diddy's aerials are just too slow to pose any threat to an airborne mk.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:

Try to always have a naner in hand. This gives you the ability to punish. Look to punish after mk misses dmashes or ftilts. Dash attack -> utilt/uair/fair combos fairly well against metaknight. Diddy is more than capable of taking mk on the ground, in fact it is probable in diddy's favor.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:

The typical metaknight will use all of their jumps will dair'ing, then tornado. Try to save as much shield as you can, and then aim the shield up during the tornado. Then glide toss out of shield to punish.

It is also very important to avoid getting gimped. Don't aim for the ledge unless you are sure you can get to it. After getting hit off stage I like to pull a naner then use my jump to catch it. Then I have something to hit metaknight with while recovering, or if he stays on the stage I can ledge hop and hit him with it. Keep on mind the dhgr->footstool if you happen to latch on to mk while recovering.


Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:

Glide tosses for punishment.
Dash attack combos.
Peanuts on air campy metaknights.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:

Camp. Even though metaknight has five jumps, he has to land eventually. Look to punish with naners. Don't get over ambitious and try to attack when it isn't safe. Metaknight makes you pay.

Keep a naner in hand at all times.

Overall Character Ratio:
55-45 metaknight

 

[Player-1]

LOL its so true though, people need to stop whining about this game and just learn matchups. I would love to fight only Meta's in tourneys since i find it to be even and plus its just a fun *** match up. Also no ones opinion (including myself) really matter except ADHD, NL, M2K and other top Meta's. Maybe AZ and le_thien as well but ADHD and NL are better (and they also live by me so it will help me if i need advice).

Also a quote from Wes after losing to ADHD (or close enough) "Seriously, it makes no sense, he throws a banana at my face and i trip, do you want me to throw banana at your head, cause you'll probaly trip, man this **** makes no sense." lol

yeah, I guess you didn't understand what I was saying, I wasn't laughing because it was funny, I was laughing at you for making such a pointless and irrelevant post.

 

[Ninja Edd]

@AvaricePanda: i shiouldnt have to defend my point because people keep saying the same stuff over and over plus im not about to right a guide when im only an average player in. I only said the general stage ratio since im probaly going to say the same thing everyone knows already

@ The Sauce Boss: you make me laugh, this is a perfect example why i refused to post on the boards for over a year and a half.

Like i said none of us are winning tourneys all the time so you should just listen to the top players since they know what there doing i already listed the 4 there probaly are a few more as well

Also Avarice, since you said i didnt help with this match up, a thing i see no one mentioned. If you have a banana in hand and tornado comes instead of just shielding all the time you could just Z-drop the banana and he will get hit out of it, this helps if you have little or no shield though shielding then punshining after with a combo is more damage. This also helps if your stuck in the tornado because Meta's that know what they're doing and even if they dont, Diddy gets ***** by it since its hard to get out of so just try to z-drop the banana. This actually works but really only for the starting of the tornado.

@player 1: I know what you meant, your another explain of people who have no say dont you just play online? And arent very good either?

Wyatt please help me, I cant take these people anymore.

 

[Ingulit]

Also Avarice, since you said i didnt help with this match up, a thing i see no one mentioned. If you have a banana in hand and tornado comes instead of just shielding all the time you could just Z-drop the banana and he will get hit out of it, this helps if you have little or no shield though shielding then punshining after with a combo is more damage. This also helps if your stuck in the tornado because Meta's that know what they're doing and even if they dont, Diddy gets ***** by it since its hard to get out of so just try to z-drop the banana. This actually works but really only for the starting of the tornado.

Are you actually recommending that a Diddy player should purposefully try to get ABOVE a Meta Knight entirely on purpose?

...Lord (but seriously, NEVER try to attack, approach, or do anything from above. Two-frame U-Air really hurts, as well as the rest of his plethora of juggling moves)

I agree with what's been said, angle the shield and punish. The better Meta Knights I play will tornado as soon as I have thrown my Banana and miss, such that I don't have a reliable way of stopping their approach. If they DO try to approach you with Tornado while you have one, throw it to stop them but be prepared for another right after. Otherwise, just pray you have enough shield left. F-Tilt and Diddy Hump DO work, but I've always considered them risky considering the spacing needed and the speed Meta Knight can close in on that spacing.

 

[Le_THieN]

Don't be a bunch of pricks to each other, guys. Be nice.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

@AvaricePanda: i shiouldnt have to defend my point because people keep saying the same stuff over and over plus im not about to right a guide when im only an average player in. I only said the general stage ratio since im probaly going to say the same thing everyone knows already

@ The Sauce Boss: you make me laugh, this is a perfect example why i refused to post on the boards for over a year and a half.

Like i said none of us are winning tourneys all the time so you should just listen to the top players since they know what there doing i already listed the 4 there probaly are a few more as well

Also Avarice, since you said i didnt help with this match up, a thing i see no one mentioned. If you have a banana in hand and tornado comes instead of just shielding all the time you could just Z-drop the banana and he will get hit out of it, this helps if you have little or no shield though shielding then punshining after with a combo is more damage. This also helps if your stuck in the tornado because Meta's that know what they're doing and even if they dont, Diddy gets ***** by it since its hard to get out of so just try to z-drop the banana. This actually works but really only for the starting of the tornado.

@player 1: I know what you meant, your another explain of people who have no say dont you just play online? And arent very good either?

Wyatt please help me, I cant these people anymore.

You only think the top players' opinions matters, and the very worst thing is you don't even think you're own opinion matters. To me this is the mark of a very ignorant person.

Don't assume our skill levels. You have no clue how good me or anyone else is. Just because you haven't read about us on the internet doesn't make us any less of player. Incidentally, yesterday I went to a tournament and I believe I got top 10 out of about 50. Yes, I didn't win, but it is a respectable placing. People were complimenting me all day and telling me how much I have improved. I've been to more tournaments than I can remember to count and I am more than qualified to post an intelligent opinion on the metaknight match-up.

I am glad you didn't post for a year. You most likely would have just said stupid **** and got flamed like you are now.

 

[Le_THieN]

CHILL PLZ

seriously

 

[Ninja Edd]

Are you actually recommending that a Diddy player should purposefully try to get ABOVE a Meta Knight entirely on purpose?

...Lord (but seriously, NEVER try to attack, approach, or do anything from above. Two-frame U-Air really hurts, as well as the rest of his plethora of juggling moves)

I agree with what's been said, angle the shield and punish. The better Meta Knights I play will tornado as soon as I have thrown my Banana and miss, such that I don't have a reliable way of stopping their approach. If they DO try to approach you with Tornado while you have one, throw it to stop them but be prepared for another right after. Otherwise, just pray you have enough shield left. F-Tilt and Diddy Hump DO work, but I've always considered them risky considering the spacing needed and the speed Meta Knight can close in on that spacing.

No, i didnt mean from above. Just next to them, for when they start the torando z-droping is quicker then throwing a banana(mainly if your not on the ground falling back down or just short hopped and if the meta spaced his tornado so a banana throw couldnt hit), also if you didnt see what i said when you get caught in it Z-dropping works to but just for the start of it.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

chill

Alright, I've said all I wanted to anyway.

Back on the match-up I think the consensus is 55-45 mk favor.

 

[Ninja Edd]

You only think the top players' opinions matters, and the very worst thing is you don't even think you're own opinion matters. To me this is the mark of a very ignorant person.

Don't assume our skill levels. You have no clue how good me or anyone else is. Just because you haven't read about us on the internet doesn't make us any less of player. Incidentally, yesterday I went to a tournament and I believe I got top 10 out of about 50. Yes, I didn't win, but it is a respectable placing. People were complimenting me all day and telling me how much I have improved. I've been to more tournaments than I can remember to count and I am more than qualified to post an intelligent opinion on the metaknight match-up.

I am glad you didn't post for a year. You most likely would have just said stupid **** and got flamed like you are now.

First of all i never said anything about you, you called me a ****ing idiot first remember?

And at this tourney who did you beat and what pros were there or top players by you? Not trying to start **** but having no pros there means it was a almost an all scrub tourney. I also said you didnt suck, the 2 posts player 1 posted were me just joking around. Its true that everyone opinion does matter, all i meant was were you going to listen ADHD and AZ or to people you never really heard of.

@ Le Thien: sorry, some people dont understand jokes and certain things but ill chill too

 

[Le_THieN]

Losing my mod status would be worth banning both of you right now. Don't think I actually care about this position.

I'm also on the cusp of locking this thread entirely.

 

[Player-1]

@player 1: I know what you meant, your another explain of people who have no say dont you just play online? And arent very good either?

lol, just because you can't make any post that mean something doesn't mean you have to start flaming me, I can't even understand what you're saying in your first sentence because you grammar is horrendous. Saying 'Diddy beats MK on these stages, and anyone who thinks otherwise sucks' with no other information isn't a very good post at all, and you're pretty much just spamming the boards, please go back to browsing the forums rather than posting, it'll make everybody's life better.

oh and an FYI, I haven't ever placed below top 5 in an offline tournament =).

so back on topic my opinion on the matchup again:

In my opinion, the matchup is 55:45 in MK's favor. I believe he's an even matchup on FD and SV, and then 55:45 on BF and YI. Out of the starter stages through counter pick stages on the SBR rule set, I believe them all to be 55:45 except Brinstar, Japes, Rainbow Cruise, and Frigate, which I believe to be 60:40 in MK's favor. Although I haven't ever played the stage competitively, I think Pirate Ship has potential to be a 50:50 simpy because of the water prevents you from being gimped, but on the other hand you can take a **** load of damage because of it.

If MK starts to Dair camp you, then start shooting peanuts, and be ready to shield if he tornados, remember to move your shield around so that it doesn't shield poke you. Your Utilt and Usmash also beat the Dair when he's above you. If you have a banana in hand, then either keep it and wait for the nado, then punish the nado with an OoS GT, or you can just throw it up and control his aerial movement.

The key problem I see in this matchup is how well MK can gimp you, you get gimped when you're trying to recover or you take a lot of damage. Usually, when i face any good MK player, it's either I get gimpe and lose or I don't get gimped and I win.To avoid being gimped by MK you want to use your side-b as far up as you can and then start DIing towards the stage and avoid all of MK's attacks with air dodges or your midair jump if you have it left, or if you're near the very edge of the blast zone then you can use then, but if you're recovering when you're on level of the stage or below then you usually want to ignore your side-b and just go for the up-b to the stage.

Now MK can't use the bananas to his advantage very well, but he can get a hold of them a lot better with his Fair, Nair, and dash attack, but as long as you have the other banana with you then you have the advantage.

In this matchup, you usually ALWAYS want to have at least one banana under your control. Having a banana in your hand puts you on an even playing field in terms of speed with just about every move MK has, and since you have the range advantage since you have a banana in your hand, you can just about punish every grounded attack MK has.

plus you can DHGR >foostool MK, which means 100-0 in Diddy's favor.

Edit:@Underload, you've got it wrong, a Diddy who knows how to deal with an MK who relies on dair camping get destroyed, it's simple, just force them to the ground with lunch, and then punish once he's on the ground.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Ninja Edd for the record the tournament had anther, lain, judge, panda, noj, omniswell and other good Michigan players I doubt you've heard of, but are still very good. Michigan is known for having a lot of good players.

 

[Ninja Edd]

Losing my mod status would be worth banning both of you right now. Don't think I actually care about this position.

I'm also on the cusp of locking this thread entirely.

Na dont lock the thread, we both said we would chill. This match up is going to be 55/45 probaly since the majority, well just not me see it as this.

@ the sauce boss: yeah i saw MI afterwards and nice btw. I think MI or midwest is probaly 2nd or 3rd best region after NJ/NY and Cali, but you guys are getting m2k and Ally soon, so you'll be the best then.

 

[Ingulit]

CHILL PLZ

seriously

k

Both Characters Air Game Against Each Other:
Meta Knight hurts in the air. Like, a lot. He has range, speed, and very little lag; all we have going for us is the decent range of our F-Air for spacing, but even that can be relatively easily intercepted. B-Air is good for a quick "OMG GET AWAY" move if you're right on top of them, and U-Air can be used as a surprise move from below (most Meta Knights wouldn't think a Diddy would chase them in the air... but with good reason). D-Air will not hit. I'm almost 100% sure, unless you manage a Single Banana Lock or something. As for N-Air, well, his is the same thing only better and a kill move. Meta Knight can juggle you to no end with a flurry of U-Airs and Tornados and blow you to the side with a D-Air, and his F-Air and B-Air are quick damage dealers that aid a lot with gimping. Did I mention gimping? Oh yeah, Meta Knight is really good at gimping. You HAVE to mix up your recovery to hope to get back; as people have said, aiming for the stage and not the ledge with Up-B is a good idea, and some people like to Side-B AWAY from the stage and then Up-B back (so that the Meta Knight can't chase them as well). Overall, though... Good luck. Meta Knight's favor.

Both Characters Ground Game Against Each Other:
This is a mixed bag in my opinion. Diddy's Bananas are some of the most effective tools for punishing Meta Knight, but you have to be nearly perfect in your spacing and timing. If he perfect-sheilds and you try to chase, you'll eat a D-Smash before the Banana lands to trip him again. His Dash Attack is great at picking up Bananas, as are plenty of his other moves, and he has a Glide Toss that will cover most of the stage (which can be good or bad, really). His Dash Attack will also go through your shield, so learn how to punish when the foe is behind you. Our Dash Attack is a great way to rack up damage and start combos, but he can OoS Shuttle Loop through it or just Shield Grab if he has the timing down. If you manage to shield one of his D-Smashes, ROLL AWAY! He can D-Smash again before you can do just about anything. The name of the game against Meta Knight is to wait for him to use a mis-spaced move and then hit him with a Banana and go from there. If you are good at punishing, this can be in Diddy's favor.

Moves To Avoid and HOW to avoid them:
Tornado. You can throw a Banana to stop it, but he will likely just start another one again since the Banana won't make him trip (he's in the air). You can F-Tilt or Diddy Hump him out of it, but that takes INCREDIBLE spacing, which is all the more difficult due to the speed at which Meta can cover ground in the Tornado. Just about the only thing you can do if you can't follow up the Banana hits or are out of spacing range is to angle your shield and punish the after-lag, so you need to get used to telling if he'll land in front of, behind, or farther away from you after it's done.

U-Air. This move is avoided simply by not being above Meta Knight, though if you are, very well-timed Air Dodges can get you back to the ground (if they aren't baiting you in the first place). A Side-B can gain you some horizontal distance, which should help as well.

D-Smash. Just stay out of his range for this move, and if he gets close enough to use it, ROLL AWAY. You practically cannot punish this move if he's up close, so don't even try. Side-Stepping won't help much either; Shield and roll away.

N-Air and D-Air. These will be the moves gimping you off the side of the stage; just remember that the sword, as disjointed as it is, is still attached to Meta Knight, so if you avoid Meta's body as you are recovering you'll have an easier time of getting back.

Diddy's Moves to Utilize In The Matchup:
Bananas. Bananas help you punish his moves and keep him from landing where he wants to land. They'll stop sliding Grabs and Dash Attacks if they are behind you, and they'll limit approaching options if they are in front of you. Banana control is VITAL to have a chance in this match. Always have one out; if you don't have one, knock them away with a decent knockback move or with a grab and pull one immediately. Just pulling one randomly will get you punished by his speed.

Personal Strategies To Help With Matchup:
Camp, to a degree. Use Peanuts and Bananas to bring Meta Knight back to the ground and proceed with the beatings form there. Wait for him to miss an attack, and then punish as fast as you can. Once you're out of range to hit with another move in a combo, RUN AWAY. Meta Knight will just punish you if you try to chase him without a Banana.

Stay in the middle of the stage. I can't begin to describe how vital it is that you don't get knocked off the side. It's almost worse to recover against a good Meta Knight than it is a good Marth.

Overall Character Ratio:
I'm on the side for 60:40 Meta Knight; if you're off the stage, that's a stock. His D-Smash will blow you out there too quickly, and from there it's almost a game of luck getting back. Your ground game rivals his, though, if you can control your Bananas; just make sure you're on a flat stage or you're in trouble.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this, or if I don't know something I should. This is all from my experience, which isn't terribly much.

 

[Le_THieN]

@ Ingulit: The only ground move Meta Knight has that is considered safe against Diddy's shield is D-tilt, and even a perfect-shielded D-tilt can be punished if you react fast enough. Glide-tossing is the most reliable thing to do OOS if you have a banana peel, but I have also gotten off dash grabs, D-smashes, D-tilts, jabs, and even the painfully slow F-smash. It all just depends on which side you shield the attack on, as well as how much you get respaced by the shield-stun knock-back.

 

[Gnes]

THEIN LAYING DOWN THE LAW!!!!!

Hmmm after bypassing some of the flaming....D-tilt and F-tilt(not the last hit) are pretty safe moves for meta against diddy. Also I like to UpB out of tornado but usually tornado is a pretty easy move to DI out of. And for the record it is not faster to Z-drop a naner onto a tornadoing meta however there is more applications out of Z dropping a naner. Your choice. Dojo doesnt even use tornado >.>

 

[AvaricePanda]

Overall Character Ratio:
If you're off the stage, that's a stock. His D-Smash will blow you out there too quickly, and from there it's almost a game of luck getting back.

I'm going to have to disagree with the whole "offstage, Diddy's screwed," thing.

Offstage in general, Diddy isn't screwed. Close to and below the stage, Diddy's pretty screwed. Trying to use your rocket barrels right next to the stage or right below the ledge leads to an easy gimp for MK. However, there are ways to circumvent this.

-When a kill move hits and you DI up, you want to use your Monkey Flip when you're well over the stage and DI towards the stage, so you aren't forced to use your monkey barrels.

-If you're around the same level as the ledge, charge your barrels and arc over the ledge. There's a quote by AlphaZealot that I want to find and link somewhere around these boards; he essentially says that when you still have your barrels on you, there's delay after you get hit, but when they disappear while in Up+B and you get hit, then you can immediately barrel again, avoiding a gimp. Arcing over the ledge does this.

-If you're really close to the stage (like you're caught under the lip of FD, or you fell off the ledge, jumped but couldn't get the ledge again, or something), you might want to side-B away from the stage and charge UpB, then arc over the ledge. This is kind of situational though, because there aren't many times where you're close to the stage but can't recover normally by just jumping or flipping over.

-While MKs air game is really good, his horizontal air movement isn't fast unless he's gliding.

 

[fource]

This is ridiculous. There are more comments insulting each other than there is discussion toward this match-up. I've heard Diddy mains say and seen Diddy mains post about how much they dislike this match-up and yet when it's time to help each other improve on it, we go off topic. Please pull it together, the lack of maturity is irritating.

Please do not close this topic or end the discussion yet. I would really like to wait to see what the Meta Knight mains have to say.

Also, I added a little bit to my last summary after playing with Affinity for a couple more hours last night.

 

[btb]

I hope its not too late to ask this, but I wanted to know your guys thoughts on what stage to ban against a MK, Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise, please share your thoughts too and why you think this.

 

[Player-1]

I hope its not too late to ask this, but I wanted to know your guys thoughts on what stage to ban against a MK, Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise, please share your thoughts too and why you think this.

Norfair>Brinstar>Rainbow Cruise IMO, but we have a stage discussion also for this.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

Norfair>Brinstar>Rainbow Cruise IMO

I second this opinion.

 

[Affinity]

I hope its not too late to ask this, but I wanted to know your guys thoughts on what stage to ban against a MK, Brinstar or Rainbow Cruise, please share your thoughts too and why you think this.

ALWAYS ban Rainbow Cruise against Meta Knights.

 

[Gnes]

ALWAYS ban Rainbow Cruise against Meta Knights so we can go to our many other bazillion cps to **** u.

fixed for love

 

[Player-1]

ALWAYS Rainbow Cruise against Meta Knights.

Rainbow Cruise is too sexy to be banned.

 

[Coyn3Masta]

Rainbow Cruise is too sexy to be banned.

^ this
ban nofair >_>

 

[AvaricePanda]

Definitely ban Mansion first, if it's even legal.

Tornado ***** on the stage. Period. If you don't have the top floor destroyed, he can tornado you under the first floor ceiling and essentially keep you there. If you attempt to DI out or tech the ceiling, he just chases you can keeps you there. Granted, landing a tornado on Diddy is pretty difficult in comparison to other characters, but when he lands it that's a very good chunk of percent.

In this matchup, one thing I value a lot is space, and Mansion is a stage that chokes you up on that. Granted, the tricks you can do on the stage help in other matchups, although MKs already huge advantage on this stage doesn't help you. He can effectively pressure you into bad situations and punish you for trying to pluck bananas in said situations. The whole tornado thing, as already mentioned, is not fun.

MK can camp outside by the ledge, facing the center of the stage. The pillar he stands behind will stop your bananas, making you unable to trip him. Then what? Basically, your two options are to go around and approach from top, or break the pillar on top, then break the pillar on the bottom, then attack. The second is pretty bad; you can just get uaired through the floor, or the MK could jump and fair through the pillar. And the first is bad, because you're jumping down straight above MK, meaning that he can easily juggle you from this position.


IMO, ban Mansion>Brinstar>Norfair>RC.

 

[Bellioes]

Also, he can Utilt lock if you miss the tech forcing you to SDI out but you still take a hefty hunk of damage (like 20-30%)
Im gonna agree with Avarice here and say ban Mansion first if its legal. If not, Id probably ban Norfair, then Brinstar, then RC.

 

[Player-1]

Definitely ban Mansion first, if it's even legal.

Tornado ***** on the stage. Period. If you don't have the top floor destroyed, he can tornado you under the first floor ceiling and essentially keep you there. If you attempt to DI out or tech the ceiling, he just chases you can keeps you there. Granted, landing a tornado on Diddy is pretty difficult in comparison to other characters, but when he lands it that's a very good chunk of percent.

In this matchup, one thing I value a lot is space, and Mansion is a stage that chokes you up on that. Granted, the tricks you can do on the stage help in other matchups, although MKs already huge advantage on this stage doesn't help you. He can effectively pressure you into bad situations and punish you for trying to pluck bananas in said situations. The whole tornado thing, as already mentioned, is not fun.

MK can camp outside by the ledge, facing the center of the stage. The pillar he stands behind will stop your bananas, making you unable to trip him. Then what? Basically, your two options are to go around and approach from top, or break the pillar on top, then break the pillar on the bottom, then attack. The second is pretty bad; you can just get uaired through the floor, or the MK could jump and fair through the pillar. And the first is bad, because you're jumping down straight above MK, meaning that he can easily juggle you from this position.


IMO, ban Mansion>Brinstar>Norfair>RC.

Mansion isn't nearly as bad as you're putting it...