Diddy Kong MU's

[Arcalyth]

Diddy's bananas would defeat Zelda's Teledash,

you can wavedash over bananas to pick them up, which makes this false

 

[Badwolf]

So what are Diddy's good MU?

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Everything and nothing. No joke.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

you can wavedash over bananas to pick them up, which makes this false

Oh true! Derp. I are knowledgeable about smash. Okay, well the peanut gun is at a good angle for canceling dins.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Ya think.

10yathinks

 

[AbstractLogic]

Real talk I think Disqo is on to something. The more i learn matchups with the Kong, the more it reminds me of brawl. He doesn't particularly dominate anyone or get bodied by anyone but instead more or less has the tools to compete with the entire cast. Of course he has some struggles or certain edges in MU but nothing beyond like a +/- .5 imo

 

[kiw1]

ok here we go my awesome matchup chart

good :]
neutral
bad
super bad :[ (at least i think so, maybe i just suck at it xd)

i dont know some so i keep some of them out.

Fox
Falco :]
Wolf :]
Wario or
Mario
Luigi ?
Peach :] (peanuts bro)
Captian falcon
Ganon :]
Lucario ? maybe
Jigglypuff :]
Squirtle :[ (or its maybe , i really think diddy is limited here)
charizard :]
Pit
Marth - :] ?
Ike -
Ness - :]
D3 - :]
ROB - maybe
snake i guess


about the rest i have no idea

 

[Praxis]

I'm a natural at Diddy because he's heavy on Brawl logic (oddly, I also feel like Mewtwo comes natural to me) and I am coming from Brawl. I understand banana spacing very well and I actually cringe a lot watching some of the videos in the video thread because people just...play him like a Melee character.

Conversely, I'm sure if I uploaded videos people would be cringing because I miss basic Melee stuff. Things like crouch cancelling don't even figure in to my game logic, and I struggle with edgeguarding to a degree because I play like I'm juggling people offstage, not gimping.

Kiw1, what makes you put Diddy for an advantage against Marth?

Why do you feel Diddy has an advantage on Falco? This matchup feels pretty even to me.

I feel like I agree with an even matchup with Fox, which is nice.

I'm interested in learning more about the Fox, Pit, and Lucario matchups.


Discussion time!


Fox

I don't need a ton of help on this one, just a few basic questions.

This is coming from my Melee inexperience. I actually feel like Diddy works well against Fox. I control his space and he can't move at his normal high speed because of my projectiles. Peanuts are remarkably effective as they can knock him offstage surprisingly easy and edgeguard him well and bananas just reduce his options enough that he suddenly becomes manageable.

However, I'm actually struggling with edgeguarding him. His up-B seems to have a much larger hurtbox than it does in Brawl, and it's quite difficult to sweetspot dair in the center of it, and nair frequently trades. I know very little about edgeguarding in Melee- Brawl is very different because of how sweetspots work, so I bet there's some very simple edgeguards I'm missing (for example, it is unnatural for me to dtilt people from the ledge with Marth, because in Brawl they would snap to the ledge from below).

Basically:

How do you normally handle Fox when he's preparing to up-B back to the stage?

Are there any basic tricks you have to mess up Fox bread and butter tactics?


Pit

I go back and forth pretty evenly with our local Pit, but I honestly have no idea what I'm doing. Any tips for this matchup in general?

Lucario

I don't know what to do when he starts hitting my shield. My Brawl reflexes tell me to grab, but PM's higher shieldstun says no.

 

[kiw1]

the thing is that falco has a big problems with glidetossbanana out of shield, i mean after the laser hits you always hit a banana (if he's somehow in range). even if he tries to approach diddy's glidetoss just gets out of it really easy and you get a ton of grabs against falco this way, after that you almost always get a upsmash from techchasing or i just get em offstage (upsmash links into upair-> bair or whatever, sometimes its even possible to upsmash again if they dont sdi).

what you want to do is get falco offstage really soon and cover his side-b options with nanas and/or d-tilts. the gun works pretty well as well.

with fox's up-b you sometimes have to trade, depending on the situation its almost ALWAYS the best decision to get to the edge, refresh your invincibility and get a bair on fox, if he's recovering high you crouch next to the edge and they're mostly afraid if they know your d-tilt hitbox (i never got to test it actually because they're all too scared), so your main goal is to keep them offstage until you get a real safe hit on him. sometimes when im lazy i just dashattack offstage and then try to hit an up-b, this works out great against many characters btw. im not really a fan of dair since it gets you in a much vulnerable position.

sooo pit against diddy is WEIRD, i actually played this weekend a couple of friendlies with armada + a tournament set.

overall: be careful about his stupid reflection thing (its actually not stupid but i dont like it ) what i tried to do against armada is whenever he tried to arrowcamp me, i did an side-b with the hitbox so the hit would neutralize the arrow and i could hit pit, this way armada tried to camp much less and i could get bananas out, the trick here is to throw peanuts out if he's really far away and ONLY use bananas when he's midrange so he can barely react and turn them against you. i never got to edgeguard armada so what i did is just shooting peanuts to keep im offstage and if it was possible i edgehogged him.

lucario vs diddy is hard, i only played it a bit but diddy seems to kind of struggle against him

for marth: you can combo him pretty easy, your nanas give you just way too much control. marth cant really do much with the bananes if he gets them so thats pretty good for you as well. this matchup is all about expirience imo, just throw bananas at the marth and grab him if you get close to him, irc you can get a couple of things out of the d-throw. also you can get him offstage and annoy him with projectiles there.

 

[Praxis]

the thing is that falco has a big problems with glidetossbanana out of shield, i mean after the laser hits you always hit a banana (if he's somehow in range). even if he tries to approach diddy's glidetoss just gets out of it really easy and you get a ton of grabs against falco this way, after that you almost always get a upsmash from techchasing or i just get em offstage (upsmash links into upair-> bair or whatever, sometimes its even possible to upsmash again if they dont sdi).

Wait what? Shouldn't a good Falco be hitting the ground right after his laser comes out? I don't see how you could punish a laser with banana OOS. Banana OOS doesn't even combo in to grab if they tech the banana hit.

I'm genuinely curious how this works?

Upsmash links in to uair? Isn't usmash's cooldown too low? I don't use it a lot because of Brawl's usmash speed and ease of SDI.

what you want to do is get falco offstage really soon and cover his side-b options with nanas and/or d-tilts. the gun works pretty well as well.

Does Dtilt work if he's aiming for the ledge?

for marth: you can combo him pretty easy, your nanas give you just way too much control. marth cant really do much with the bananes if he gets them so thats pretty good for you as well. this matchup is all about expirience imo, just throw bananas at the marth and grab him if you get close to him, irc you can get a couple of things out of the d-throw. also you can get him offstage and annoy him with projectiles there.

I'm afraid this is about lack of experience on Marth's part though. Assuming no changes from Brawl, Marth has an amazing glide toss, but it only works with his backwards roll. Since P:M retains reverse aerial rush, you should be able to pivot in to a reverse glide toss at any time. That combined with his grab means Marth is a banana-wielding monster.

The problem is that all the P:M Marth players are Melee players and have no idea that they can glide toss the bananas in to a ridiculous grab.

 

[AbstractLogic]

Marth is definitely at a disadvantage in this matchup. With a banana in hand, Marth literally has no safe approach. Diddy gimps him much easier than vice versa, and at the worst, Diddy can peanut camp. I've played several Marths in tourney and have consistently done well just by reacting to anything they commit to.

Falco I feel is similar to fox where it's a neutral matchup. Falco has the amazing lockdown game, but Diddy punishes just as hard and has a way to control the stage along with a bit better mobility. His gimp game on Falco is also super great so you should be going for earlier kills.

I think Diddy is actually one of Lucario's worst matchups due to his awesome OoS game and ability to stuff approaches (which is where Lucario struggles mostly) I play with Lucario's verrrrrry regularly so I feel very confident in this matchup. Charging a barrel offstage can usually cover his recovery options as well.

Btw @ K kiw1 Good stuff at BEAST. Your Diddy is completely on the right track imo.

 

[Praxis]

I'll need to get some videos online.

Marth is definitely at a disadvantage in this matchup. With a banana in hand, Marth literally has no safe approach. Diddy gimps him much easier than vice versa, and at the worst, Diddy can peanut camp. I've played several Marths in tourney and have consistently done well just by reacting to anything they commit to.

I like this...very Brawl style.

I've had good experiences gimping Falco.

I think Diddy is actually one of Lucario's worst matchups due to his awesome OoS game and ability to stuff approaches (which is where Lucario struggles mostly) I play with Lucario's verrrrrry regularly so I feel very confident in this matchup. Charging a barrel offstage can usually cover his recovery options as well.

Interesting. I know this is just inexperience, I'm used to Brawl's shieldstun so Lucario's on hit cancels confuse me doubly. How do you react OOS when Lucario is going at you with jabs and tilts?

More importantly, can you explain your thought process with the barrel charge offstage? I wasn't sure how to edgeguard Lucario but I haven't really done much at all with offstage barrels as an edgeguard. Isn't that very risky? A trade can drop you in to the bad position. How are you using the barrels?

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Wow. Just like. Wow. I wanna post but I mean. Wow.

 

[SpiderMad]

I don't know If I can trust you guy's statements towards good Fox and Falcos

 

[Praxis]

Wow. Just like. Wow. I wanna post but I mean. Wow.

At which part? Please do.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Well first off, I don't want us to be the people on the boards that just post anything as law because it works in our area/region. I've had the privilege and honor of playing in 3 different and very strong regions and tho I still lack plenty of exp in certain areas and am still trying hard to figure out things in other areas, I want you guys to take the things I say as well as possible. If you disagree with advice, before posting why it won't work, please evaluate your own ability to put aside your own knowledge and attempt to adapt to someone else's, as I try to do with you.

Secondly, I bless the rains down in Africa.

OKAY. Let's talk advantages. This means that we have options available to us that beat the other characters. This is always true for diddy, because we control bananas more in a match. We decide when to pull them out, when to throw them, when to ignore them, everything. How well you play with a banana on the stage will always dictate a match, unless you are just dominating without a banana, in which case, its irrelevant because of the skill gap/match progression.

Diddy is a fast faller. He has fast faller combos and followups like all the others, HOWEVER, in exchange for a multi use tech chase option item thing, diddy is limited to a certain extent in his combo game. That means after you get a nasty combo and there is no advantageous situation or you don't have a sure fire read, gimp, or a low risk high reward option, YOU SHOULD BE PULLING A BANANA OR BANANAS AND SPAMMIMG PEANUTS OR GETTING READY TO OPTIMIZE A POSITIONAL ADVANTAGE/STAGE CONTROL.

A couple of characters handle this pressure better than others, and pressure us in return, but this doesn't put the MU at a disadvantage, in fact, I think this should amplify diddys potential to be at 50-50 with his worst matchups.

I will now make a second post for character specific stuff.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Vs pit: kiw1 is right on. Peanuts will create pressure and open up oppurtunitys. Bananas are best used here at midrange or far away as a bait or pressure mixup. Nair will keep you safe if you're fearing the aerial approaches, and bair walls will keep you safe-ish at midrange. Converting off a bair hit should be second nature to you, so stay alert when you confirm a hit. At all costs, do not get grabbed. And I mean don't. At all this. This means combo hell for us, and we struggle vs arrows offstage. Going out against pit offstage is more of a risk than a reward and can actually get us killed instead. Throw a fair, get back on stage ASAP and get positional advantage. Backwards down throw glidetoss will also stuff a lot of approaches as well.

Vs lucario- if he hits your shield, you're better of staying in shield. If its a good cario, they might still get their grab in between, but keeping damage to the minimum is optimal. Besides, the focus of this MU should be to always pester lucario with bananas. His neutral game is subpar, and his lack of ranged moves means close range is always where he will go, so naturally you should be throwing everything you can as much as possible.

Vs fox- upsmash whenever possible. Upthrow can lead to a fair, at higher percents however, dthrow is a better choice for potential followups. SideB when you can, make sure you followup. Also, our SideB does indeed grab Firefox. Get wrecked furry.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Also, in regards to barrel charging, if you can safely charge and aim to hit them from underneath, barrels can be the answer to a lot of recoveries

 

[Praxis]

Vs pit: kiw1 is right on. Peanuts will create pressure and open up oppurtunitys. Bananas are best used here at midrange or far away as a bait or pressure mixup. Nair will keep you safe if you're fearing the aerial approaches, and bair walls will keep you safe-ish at midrange. Converting off a bair hit should be second nature to you, so stay alert when you confirm a hit. At all costs, do not get grabbed. And I mean don't. At all this. This means combo hell for us, and we struggle vs arrows offstage. Going out against pit offstage is more of a risk than a reward and can actually get us killed instead. Throw a fair, get back on stage ASAP and get positional advantage. Backwards down throw glidetoss will also stuff a lot of approaches as well.

Vs lucario- if he hits your shield, you're better of staying in shield. If its a good cario, they might still get their grab in between, but keeping damage to the minimum is optimal. Besides, the focus of this MU should be to always pester lucario with bananas. His neutral game is subpar, and his lack of ranged moves means close range is always where he will go, so naturally you should be throwing everything you can as much as possible.

Vs fox- upsmash whenever possible. Upthrow can lead to a fair, at higher percents however, dthrow is a better choice for potential followups.

What does the upsmash get you? It seems...risky, especially as usmash should

SideB when you can, make sure you followup. Also, our SideB does indeed grab Firefox. Get wrecked furry.

Wait wait, really? Does that mean that it is a viable edgeguard to run off stage and side-B back while Fox is up-Bing?

 

[AbstractLogic]

The only thing I would like to add to dealing with Lucario/Spacie/Lucas/Whatever shield pressure is that if they are on point with it, you should basically always buffer a roll. Don't be predictable with it, but about 95% of the time, it is a solid option due to the fact that unless the opponent gets a hard read, you are out of the danger and there is a reset. As far as OoS options you should look at if you see the opening, banana toss OoS is usually the superior option.

EDIT: Side-B Kick usually beats Firefox, whereas the grab can work however it requires a strict-ish timing. Your safest (not necessarily best or most rewarding) is to down tilt or time a down smash if they miss a sweetspot.

I don't proclaim to be a guru in the spacie matchup as I am still learning it myself. I actually ended up geting timed out by a Fox in tourney this last weekend so I definitely still have much to learn, however I have certainly played very competent fox players in tourney and can say that the matchup generally favors who punishes who harder. The "evenness" in the MU comes from both characters having good movement and a strong neutral game with very hard punishes on each other. Where fox has some slight edges in movement and quick kills Diddy makes up with far easier and arguably more potent 0-death style punishes.

 

[AbstractLogic]

What does the upsmash get you? It seems...risky, especially as usmash should

Go into training mode against a spacie and see what kinds of rewards one or even multiple up smashes net you.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

^ exactly that.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

^ exactly that.

I'm making a chart and I can only find one video on the Bowser Diddy MU. I want your opinions, but I don't want, "Every MU is good for Diddy."
I want:
Insert MU
Then the reason why.

It'll help me a lot in the long run. The video I watched was Gimpy vs. Bladewise. Bladewise lost horribly, but I don't really know why. It seemed like it was in his favor. Actually it looked like the only reason Gimpy won was because of Bowser's kill power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGrDufQoO-c

 

[Praxis]

Yeah Washington! Keep in mind that this video (Bladewise vs Gimpyfish) is PM 2.5. Diddy got buffed in each update I believe. 3.0 was a definite buff.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Yeah Washington! Keep in mind that this video (Bladewise vs Gimpyfish) is PM 2.5. Diddy got buffed in each update I believe. 3.0 was a definite buff.

In what ways? (I'm feeling REALLY happy because someone told me how to circumvent a glitch with Zelda's up b)

 

[Praxis]

In what ways? (I'm feeling REALLY happy because someone told me how to circumvent a glitch with Zelda's up b)

Lots of little subtle stuff that overall made him a good character. I actually wasn't going to stick with Diddy after 2.6 because he had too many issues, with no good killing setups and his banana game just being uninteresting compared to Brawl (they took out banana tripping on hit in earlier versions and just made it kick you back at a low angle that usually caused a groundbounce).

From 2.5 to 3, His shield got bigger, his jab combos better, his dtilt got more knockback, his nair got better, his uair got a better angle, a lot of his multi-hit moves are actually useful (upsmash and dash attack no longer kick you out easily before the final hit), fair got more knockback, dair came out faster, uthrow got a better combo angle, up-B came out faster, side-B got more useful, thrown bananas started tripping again, ftilt got longer, wavelanding peanuts got easier, and fsmash got its Brawl range back.


Diddy didn't get any huge buffs, but he got a lot of his little issues cleaned up and became a much better character than before. 3.0 Diddy is a better character than 2.5 Diddy.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Lots of little subtle stuff that overall made him a good character. I actually wasn't going to stick with Diddy after 2.6 because he had too many issues, with no good killing setups and his banana game just being uninteresting compared to Brawl (they took out banana tripping on hit in earlier versions and just made it kick you back at a low angle that usually caused a groundbounce).

From 2.5 to 3, His shield got bigger, his jab combos better, his dtilt got more knockback, his nair got better, his uair got a better angle, a lot of his multi-hit moves are actually useful (upsmash and dash attack no longer kick you out easily before the final hit), fair got more knockback, dair came out faster, uthrow got a better combo angle, up-B came out faster, side-B got more useful, thrown bananas started tripping again, ftilt got longer, wavelanding peanuts got easier, and fsmash got its Brawl range back.


Diddy didn't get any huge buffs, but he got a lot of his little issues cleaned up and became a much better character than before. 3.0 Diddy is a better character than 2.5 Diddy.

So what would the MU be?

 

[Praxis]

Someone else might have to tell you, I've never played a PM Bowser Sorry to not be that helpful in that regard, I was just explaining why that video might not be representative, as a friendly between two guys who play each other all the time using an older, weaker version of Diddy.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Someone else might have to tell you, I've never played a PM Bowser Sorry to not be that helpful in that regard, I was just explaining why that video might not be representative, as a friendly between two guys who play each other all the time using an older, weaker version of Diddy.

True, I appreciate your help anyway though. I think that Diddy has the advantage here.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Diddy wins vs bowser only if you keep bowser guessing and in his shield as much as possible. Our SideB combos on bowser are phenomenal and we can rely very heavily on landing them very much. Usually bowsers will look for the upb oos. So pester bowser repeatedly with bananas and peanuts and nairs and he will definitely shield more, because he's looking for the upb oos. You should be baiting shield every time bowser is on the ground. Our dthrow on bowser does wonders for us so abuse that as much as possible. If bowser is recovering, charge barrels. If he's attempting to sweetspot from just below the ledge, our barrels will spike him even if you're still onstage, but requires timing. Otherwise, just hit him from underneath and follow if necessary afterwards. Also, our half to full charged barrels will trade with bowsers downB. Yes. Yes. It will trade.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

Diddy wins vs bowser only if you keep bowser guessing and in his shield as much as possible. Our SideB combos on bowser are phenomenal and we can rely very heavily on landing them very much. Usually bowsers will look for the upb oos. So pester bowser repeatedly with bananas and peanuts and nairs and he will definitely shield more, because he's looking for the upb oos. You should be baiting shield every time bowser is on the ground. Our dthrow on bowser does wonders for us so abuse that as much as possible. If bowser is recovering, charge barrels. If he's attempting to sweetspot from just below the ledge, our barrels will spike him even if you're still onstage, but requires timing. Otherwise, just hit him from underneath and follow if necessary afterwards. Also, our half to full charged barrels will trade with bowsers downB. Yes. Yes. It will trade.

So a counter or hard counter? I personally say hard counter. But you guys main him not me.

 

[Praxis]

Diddy wins vs bowser only if you keep bowser guessing and in his shield as much as possible. Our SideB combos on bowser are phenomenal and we can rely very heavily on landing them very much. Usually bowsers will look for the upb oos. So pester bowser repeatedly with bananas and peanuts and nairs and he will definitely shield more, because he's looking for the upb oos. You should be baiting shield every time bowser is on the ground. Our dthrow on bowser does wonders for us so abuse that as much as possible. If bowser is recovering, charge barrels. If he's attempting to sweetspot from just below the ledge, our barrels will spike him even if you're still onstage, but requires timing. Otherwise, just hit him from underneath and follow if necessary afterwards. Also, our half to full charged barrels will trade with bowsers downB. Yes. Yes. It will trade.

A few questions having never played this matchup.

Can't Bowser up-B our side-B first? Or will we still grab through it? I'm assuming it has startup invincibility like Brawl.

Will a grounded Bowser up-B trip or pass over bananas on the ground?

 

[DarkStarStorm]

It trips, I'm not sure about the side-b. But it trips. Actually if he uses up-b, then you could just activate the hitbox of the side-b and start an Uair string.

A few questions having never played this matchup.

Can't Bowser up-B our side-B first? Or will we still grab through it? I'm assuming it has startup invincibility like Brawl.

Will a grounded Bowser up-B trip or pass over bananas on the ground?

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

UpB can hit our sideB first correct. If this happens repeatedly to you then you'll need to start going for grabs and baiting the upB.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

UpB can hit our sideB first correct. If this happens repeatedly to you then you'll need to start going for grabs and baiting the upB.

A few questions having never played this matchup.

Can't Bowser up-B our side-B first? Or will we still grab through it? I'm assuming it has startup invincibility like Brawl.

Will a grounded Bowser up-B trip or pass over bananas on the ground?

Thank you guys for your help, I'm putting Diddy down as a hard counter? Yeah, a hard counter to Bowser, is that right?
PLEASE reply, and don't worry, you'll be seeing more of me. After I'm done with Bowser I'll be moving on to Captain Falcon, and I'll see you again briefly. Then after Captain Falcon I will be spending a lot of time with you as we work through his MUs.
Thanks,
PalPlays

 

[DLA]

As someone whose roommate is considered the best Bowser and one of the best PM players (Kirk), I can say that Diddy is definitely not a hard counter for Bowser. I'd say it's even or slightly in Diddy's favor. Everything DiSQO says is true, but unfortunately up B does ruin a lot of stuff for us, especially if the Bowser has quick reactions. If you try to side B mixup Bowser's shield, he can Up B OoS and beat both of your options. Most of Diddy's other approaches are really unsafe against Bowser because of his crouching armor mechanics. Our fall speed is unfortunate in this MU and makes it very easy for Bowser to combo us to death. Camping is the best option, especially on big stages (which are by far Diddy's best bet), but Bowser's Fair is still pretty ridiculous and will disintegrate peanuts, and clash with bananas which sends them straight up and makes them unusable to you for a while. And if you're on a small stage like Yoshi's, forget about it--you gotta just try to avoid the Fairs and try to get Bowser offstage and gimp him.

In all fairness, Kirk hasn't really been playing much at all since 3.0 came out, and I've improved a lot since then results-wise, so the MU may be a bit better than I remember it. I still feel comfortable in my knowledge of it though.

 

[DarkStarStorm]

As someone whose roommate is considered the best Bowser and one of the best PM players (Kirk), I can say that Diddy is definitely not a hard counter for Bowser. I'd say it's even or slightly in Diddy's favor. Everything DiSQO says is true, but unfortunately up B does ruin a lot of stuff for us, especially if the Bowser has quick reactions. If you try to side B mixup Bowser's shield, he can Up B OoS and beat both of your options. Most of Diddy's other approaches are really unsafe against Bowser because of his crouching armor mechanics. Our fall speed is unfortunate in this MU and makes it very easy for Bowser to combo us to death. Camping is the best option, especially on big stages (which are by far Diddy's best bet), but Bowser's Fair is still pretty ridiculous and will disintegrate peanuts, and clash with bananas which sends them straight up and makes them unusable to you for a while. And if you're on a small stage like Yoshi's, forget about it--you gotta just try to avoid the Fairs and try to get Bowser offstage and gimp him.

In all fairness, Kirk hasn't really been playing much at all since 3.0 came out, and I've improved a lot since then results-wise, so the MU may be a bit better than I remember it. I still feel comfortable in my knowledge of it though.

I've seen GimpyFish the best Bowser in the world have trouble with Diddy and that Diddy didn't use all of his options. I think that the MU is a counter, based on what you and BuNNY said. Advantage but not a big one nor a small one.

 

[DLA]

GimpyFish the best Bowser in the world

The man knows his Bowser and his Chipotle burritos, but I don't think he's quite as good as Kirk, who won The Big House 3, and just about every local he enters. Just my opinion though.

Also I feel that this MU is very stage-dependent. The less room Diddy has to work with, the closer to even--or even Bowser's advantage--it becomes.

 

[Praxis]

Hey, I remember dairing you. Good times. Nice 'dorf.

What DLA writes seems in line with what I'd expect for the up-B.

 

[DiSQO_BuNNY]

Diddy also has the option of SideB while holding the banana. Its very possible to keep bowser guessing and scared, then react when bowser starts to play pro actively. The smaller the stage, the harder it is for diddy. Not a hard counter, slight advantage