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Diddy Kong MU's

pyrofox13

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I'm not sure if there's already one of these or not. Regardless the title says it all.

:phone:
 

pyrofox13

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Let's start with another new character, Ivysaur.

I'm new to Diddy so I don't know that much about him. I'm sure that all of his MU's involve spacing with the Popgun and using the bananas as an approach and for spacing. That's all I know.

:phone:
 

SpiderMad

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I think multi-hit moves like F-smash/Up-smash might be good at beating counter attacks like Marth's Down-b, like the one part triggers the counter but then the next part knocks him out of his own counter attack.
 

`dazrin

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I think it may be a better option to discuss match ups against Melee top tiers first rather than discussing a MU between two completely new characters like Diddy and Ivysaur. More people are likely to have knowledge on the former, rather than the latter.

Just my two cents.
 

ELI-mination

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I feel like Diddy can do some really awesome stuff against spacies (like most characters). Making sure that at least one banana is almost always out really begins to limit spacies' approach options. And if they're at 0%, you can do uthrow -> regrab -> uthrow -> 3 consecutive usmashes -> nair a bunch of times -> fair, up-b, or dair for the kill... assuming you follow their DI well they usually get killed from that.
I also feel like the safety of up-b out of shield with Diddy is greatly overrated, particularly against spacies. Because you can't get away from them enough if they shield it for them not to be able to chase you down. I feel that those who feel Diddy's up-b is too safe are simply not playing against players that have enough Diddy experience to know how to punish it properly.

I also feel like Marth may be one of Diddy worst matchups because Diddy is a fast faller. So Marth can do a lot of his combos that he has on spacies on Diddy as well, except Diddy has no shine or uthrow->uair like Fox for example. It seems that bananas should be Diddy's main tool against Marth. Lots and lots of potassium.
 

pyrofox13

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Yeah darzin makes a good point. In thar case let's start off with a character that everybody's used, falco.

Honestly this MU I feel is okay. Diddy has falco beat projectile wise, but falcos lasers are still good against, not just Diddy, but everybody. Chain grabbing can be done right away and if they DI I like to try and follow up with a F-air. F-air is always good against falco. I use as an edgeguard move just like everybody else. Attacking falcos recovery is always the best edgeguarding option. Bananas are good as usual. Try to keep falco around a grounded banana because it helps trust me.

:phone:
 

jalued

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Diddy v Falco: The matchup is relatively even because both characters can combo the other (and diddy can chaingrab) and stage control can go back and forth. Nana's are a god send for edgeguarding falco, but diddy has some issues recovering against falco as well due to his sweetspotting mechanic and that sideB can be shut down via lasers.

Nanas also allow diddy to control a portion of the stage and escape from falco's pressure. In melee falco could cover pretty much every option with lasers but nanas allow diddy some room to breath and makes it tricky for the falco to techchase.

Wolf is completely the opposite because of his wavelanding lasers, which nulify diddy's nanas. Thankfully falco doesnt have such options for picking up nanas (and wavedashing over them costs precious frames). Because of this diddy can keep control of his nanas as long as he doesnt over extend.
 

SpiderMad

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I think Fox does better than Falco for Up-smash/Up-air seeming to work great on Diddy, but I'm not certain.

I really think Wolf does the worst between all of them though (I think this for probably every MU lol), even though yeah his lasers allow him to the same stuff Diddy can with his bananas. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=87G-nPP4Njo#t=41s

Here you can watch a lot of Vro (Diddy) vs Rat (Wolf)
http://www.twitch.tv/mattdotzeb/b/374632769 at like 3:51:36 P:M starts


Maybe Rat needed to do exactly what you said and use more laser stuff (which he says he's all about) but like I said Idk. Too bad I suck with the Offline AD and Tvs at tournaments that don't use Component cables so if ppl want to play me at my best they need to come to my house O_O.

For the amount of Diddy Vro played so far it seems like he's catching up fast with a lot of the stuff I'm doing like at 4:04:13 He does the bair wall thing I spam a lot, and ton of other stuff like that.

Then he's got things that might be worth stealing like at 4:05:02 he side-bs into the wall (which can lead to an SD if you don't get the right Up-b angle) but instead he Walljumps after it and seems to immediately do a reverse banana pull after it which seemed to shift his momentum perfectly for a sweet-spotting up-b. There's only a few more specifics and concepts I see that I don't already use (He knows the up-b is good for a lot of stuff, he likes ledge grab drop to Up-b so it's invincible THOUGH the grounded Up-b is also invincible but it won't hit below the ledge like his method does). Then there's stuff that aren't necessarily new to me but I can analyze his method towards, like with edge-guarding so far his common tactic is to just pull two bananas towards the ledge and then go from there with yadayada and mix it up with yadayada.

The few of the biggest things I seem to notice he doesn't do that I do is using a lot of dash attack off platforms (it's really good unless the opponent knows to spam hitboxes in those areas, but it's super surprising at the beginning of a match if it's like DL or BF so maybe he's saving it for tourney) and then also it seems he's waveland grabbing the bananas off platforms and then throwing them after he slides off instead of just AGT'ing them straight off the platform (he might of done it once or something idk), but this isn't even close to game breaking or anything so yeah it's not like he needs to use it more http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FdgVaZEaalE#t=238s.

Lastly another thing we both lack is using some of the subtle Brawl tactics, like sometimes just spamming grounded peanut gun is the best option for edge guarding. Basic simple stupid stuff sometimes is the best option, that's the part of the character I fear might be the best.
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Sadly, SpiderMad is right, brawl tactics make a lot of diddys seemingly "bad matchups" SOOOOO EASIER. I'm serious. I don't think I'll EVER have an issue with space animals. Any of them. I don't get wave shined or up smashed by fox, I don't worry about recovering against falco, I don't consider wolf with a banana a threat. None of em.
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Regarding earlier posts, fsmash and up smash will not beat out counter. Counter will almost always win trades.

This MU thread should focus, if people even read it or play diddy anymore, on the MUs that diddy struggles with.
I also kinda wanna say, since I came from brawl, that everyone who didn't play diddy on brawl should get used to running away and baiting for safe approaches, options, and LOTS of mixups. This will GREATLY improve your matches vs spacies, combo heavy chars, and anyone else who usually wrecks with strong finishers like bowser.
Its stupid and gay and campy I know. But would you rather lose Cuz you wanted to get in, or win because you played patient enough to **** em up when you do get it?
I like not losing.
 

Oracle

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Disqo I'm not sure if running away is good with diddy or if you just happen to be really good at it. Just something to consider
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Combo vids are awesome Spidey. Tourney wins are awesome too. Dont get the two mixed up. Alternatively, I'm not saying that running away is how this character should be played all day everyday. What I am saying, however, is that not approaching, forcing baits, and not taking larger risks than needed are all very strong options diddy benefits GREATLY from. He has just as good a run in offense game as others, but in my personal experience, going in from the get go without a prior plan or knowledge of your opponent can get you in a disadvantage really quick, and that's what I don't want happening to you, or any other diddy
 

Lex Jewthor

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Any advice against new Ivysaur? Prolly not much matchup experience out there yet for 2.6, but a guy I play with plays him and while I beat him 90% of the time before, because of how bad Ivy was, it's hard to even take stocks now.

Specifically, I'm having trouble getting in on back air zoning and razor leaf spam, and his Nair interrupting my... everything. low, weak Nair -> grab used to work like a charm, but how he can Nair out of it into uptilt launch for free. I'm using glide tossed bananas to try to block the leaf and get him out of the animation, but it's so safe now.

Additionally, I'm having a lot of trouble putting shield pressure on him even with two bananas. Nair out of shield seems to trump anything I have at close range, and immediately puts pressure on MY shield.
 

AbstractLogic

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It looks like even in the melee style metagame, Diddy will always be banned from playing on Final Destination. Nanners are still too good.
 

Nausicaa

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Playing as MK vs Diddy is super fun.
The Diddy liked it too...
We did it a lot, and it might be one of the funnest match-ups in the game. Mostly, just because of how silly and mixed up some of the close-proximity action can be. So fun.
 

DMG

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Being able to swat Diddy banana's is a huge thing. If you want the character to be really silly, change it back.

MU wise idk how he handles Marth Sheik or Fox.
 

AbstractLogic

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Being able to swat Diddy banana's is a huge thing. If you want the character to be really silly, change it back.

MU wise idk how he handles Marth Sheik or Fox.
Diddy Sheik is a matchup I'm trying to figure out right now. I'm coming to this game from brawl with no serious melee experience so It's style a new thing to me. This is one of the characters that definitely has potential to gimp Diddy so mix up your options when getting back to the stage. Sheik just like Diddy has an amazing ground game. With no banana on the field I would say sheik is better at controlling the stage, however with bananas it goes in Diddys favor. If sheik ever gets a banana in hand be very careful. Practice instant throwing and catching thrown items to help this. Diddy has some potential for some nasty combos if you can land an U-tilt, U-Smash or Nair however sheik still has her bread and butter combos from melee. Slightly larger stages help for double banana shenanigans however with small stages unless you have TIGHT control over those nanners I would recommend keeping one out at a time.

I would like to hear Arcalyth's advice on this exact matchup being someone that plays both characters
 

Arcalyth

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lol i don't know how to fight sheik

and i'm really bad at this game don't ask me for advice :)
 

Gifts

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You can crouch cancel all of Sheik's moves (except grab obviously) until about 35-40%. She can have a hard time getting back to the stage so throw her off whenever possible. With banana's out it makes her getting back onto the stage even more of a nightmare especailly if you utilize your peanut gun. You need to recover high against Sheik. Any form of low recovery means Diddy is probably going to either get gimped by needle's or eating a d smash if you aren't spot on with your up b. I think Sheik can safely run off and bair diddy's up b and recover safely (not 100% sure.) The key in this match up is to really not get grabbed. If you limit how many grabs a sheik player gets on you it really increases your chances on doing well.

Coming from a Sheik player who is picking up Diddy. :)
 

AbstractLogic

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Btw to help you out Lex fighting Ivysaur shouldn't be that hard if you keep razor leaf in check with the popgun and realize that with a banana you have a faster and longer range option than her. I would suggest on not overcommitting against Ivysaur or you will eat free punishes. Stick to simple grab followups: It's free damage. Honestly just use lots of bananas on the ground an limit her tech options.
 

MisterNipNips

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Anyone have tips against metaknight matchups? I'm having trouble against the character. Once he gets in, its hard to get him out. Not sure what to do :(
 

AbstractLogic

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Anyone have tips against metaknight matchups? I'm having trouble against the character. Once he gets in, its hard to get him out. Not sure what to do :(
Shoot lots of peanuts. His recovery is pretty free if you spam the nuts and nanners. Use tons of nairs to get combos in the neutral. He has the tools to gimp you so be careful.
 

GuruKid

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Lots of peanuts and bananas, primarily because of his inability to outright swat them away unless he Dash Attacks. You'll want to abuse that aspect and limit his space by shooting peanuts and keeping nanners in key spots or on-hand. I finding this to be a general rule against many characters but keeping a banana nearby between you and meta is good at negating many of his ground approaches (especially grab). He's also at a good weight for followups from Dthrow, and cc dtilt and dsmash are great to punish many of his easily-cc'able attacks like Dair, Fair Ftilt, Dtilt.

As when playing most other FF'ers or semi-FF'ers if you're getting d-thrown DI down and away; this is the only DI to escape the otherwise-guaranteed IDC followup at low-to-medium percents. Meta can still predict your tech option though and hit you with an IDC or regrab if you're predictable with your tech directions, so always try to mix em up.
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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If the mk is in the air a lot, its just as effective to throw the banana up at him just to eff him up where he thinks he'll be safe.
 

Soft Serve

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I'd really enjoy tips on the Peach matchup. I have problems against peach in melee too, just because it takes so long to adjust to the different pace game that peach forces you to play. How do I deal with peach as diddy? I feel like she can just float over bananas and ignore popgun ala how she can deal with falco's lasers. I feel like I need to be aggro and prevent excess turnip grabbing, while still keeping a safe distance and not getting put through the blender.

What strategies should I stick too? stages to lean towards? I don't want FD because then she can just float around and I don't have platforms to control vertical space with. I'd rather not loose that, we have enough peaches in AZ for me to learn to NOT jump into a peach on a platform if I'm not punishing a d-smash.
 

AbstractLogic

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I'd really enjoy tips on the Peach matchup. I have problems against peach in melee too, just because it takes so long to adjust to the different pace game that peach forces you to play. How do I deal with peach as diddy? I feel like she can just float over bananas and ignore popgun ala how she can deal with falco's lasers. I feel like I need to be aggro and prevent excess turnip grabbing, while still keeping a safe distance and not getting put through the blender.

What strategies should I stick too? stages to lean towards? I don't want FD because then she can just float around and I don't have platforms to control vertical space with. I'd rather not loose that, we have enough peaches in AZ for me to learn to NOT jump into a peach on a platform if I'm not punishing a d-smash.
Not to toot my own horn, but one of my main practice partners G-Rabbit plays a very competent peach and I feel as if I'm pretty solid at the matchup. Peach is hella safe and has ridiculous priority (in all fairness so does the monkey). However the matchup can be summarized as intelligently being agressive. Peach punishes poorly spaced aggressive play VERY HARD. IT may help to camp her a bit out and try to get the feel for things, but Diddy can definitely go in if done right. Use lots of air peanuts/nanners and Fairs. On the other hand though, peach does have the tools to edgeguard Diddy well so be careful offstage.

Here are some sets that may help you in this matchup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqJxVo3XPOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9--sqMKBSRY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YFNszWhixc

If you'd like specifics as far as what to do in certain scenarios feel free to ask man.
 

Alexander Duprey

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So I just recently starting picking up diddy and he is a ton of fun. I don't really know how his matchups go or what stages he excels at, I mainly play him cause he is super fun and solid as of 3.0.

I entered a PM tourney this weekend and got knocked into losers first round by a Pit player. First game was close on smashville, last stock, last hit, but I lost, then I CP to Lylat, mostly because I'm a lucario main that stage is gdlk for him, also I like janking people out since no one likes lylat. My idea backfired and he just glided in between my nanas and the platforms making it hard to hit confirm on him. I thought the angled short platforms would provide awesome DA combos and mixups, I was right and wrong at the same time.

Does anyone else have Pit experience? How does the match up go? I feel like I could probably beat that pit player given the chance tho.
 

Soft Serve

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I have zero pit experience so ill let other people chime in on this. However i think id cp to fd so pit doesnt get platforms to menuver around you, or dream land so his killing power gets reduced.
 

Alexander Duprey

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I have zero pit experience so ill let other people chime in on this. However i think id cp to fd so pit doesnt get platforms to menuver around you, or dream land so his killing power gets reduced.
That sounds right, I'll keep that in mind next time. I was able to not die to UpB which was good, and dreamland would probably make that neigh impossible.
 

Toomad

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Diddy vs. Squirtle?

My main practise partner is maining squirtle atm. We both just recently picked up PM after playing melee a lot. Anyone have any insight into this match up so far? Here's what I've gathered:
-Grounded bananas aren't very useful, Squirtle's side B goes straight through them and knocks them to platforms.
-Pop-gun is also not that great at controlling space as it tends to arc over squirtle when he's moving in a dash (he's hella low to the ground).
-Shield-grabbing Squirtle's side B is an option but it's very hard to time, it's actually better if you're facing away from him, then he'll hit and sort of get popped up and over your shield into your grab.
-Hydro-planed up-smashes or running up-smash by squirtle is a bad move if you're grounded, easy shield grab.
-Spacing with b-air is difficult as even a SHFFL'd b-air comes out high relative to squirtle, SHFFL'd nair seems to cover a lot of his approach options but can be difficult to time.

Like I say, we're both noobs so no idea about this match up yet really. What do you guys think?
 

DMG

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If Squirtle Side B's your shield, you should try Bair, Nair, or Uair OOS to punish him. Once he pops up, there's a brief window that he can't do anything and it makes him vulnerable against OOS options that cover near the character very well
 

DarkStarStorm

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Zelda v Diddy is a MU I don't think I've ever faced/seen. What do you guys think of this one?
I feel that they would both control the stage really well. Diddy's bananas would defeat Zelda's Teledash, but her aerial moves would beat his, and her setups for dins would give some free edgeguards. But he being quicker than her would give him the advantage.
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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Diddy vs squirtle- pivot grab squirts sideB and get used to the idea of 'hit and run'. OOS bair/ nair all the time, then sideB/ double jump if you whiff and reset situation. Always pull bananas and have them available for when squirts not armoring through them.

Diddy vs pit- backwards glidetoss dthrow bananas will cover your ass vs pits approaches. Likewise, peanut to banana onslaught will cover your ass when you approach. Pit will combo the **** out of us, so your object is to never get grabbed. Keep pit in a comfortable mid range bubble. If he starts to leave that bubble, your approaches should be multi option covering ones, Cuz you'll get wrecked if you whiff something risky. Never over commit.

Diddy vs zelda- same as pit. Never over commit, never too aggressive. Always expect naryus or a lightning kick to break combos.
 

DarkStarStorm

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Diddy vs squirtle- pivot grab squirts sideB and get used to the idea of 'hit and run'. OOS bair/ nair all the time, then sideB/ double jump if you whiff and reset situation. Always pull bananas and have them available for when squirts not armoring through them.

Diddy vs pit- backwards glidetoss dthrow bananas will cover your *** vs pits approaches. Likewise, peanut to banana onslaught will cover your *** when you approach. Pit will combo the **** out of us, so your object is to never get grabbed. Keep pit in a comfortable mid range bubble. If he starts to leave that bubble, your approaches should be multi option covering ones, Cuz you'll get wrecked if you whiff something risky. Never over commit.

Diddy vs zelda- same as pit. Never over commit, never too aggressive. Always expect naryus or a lightning kick to break combos.
Not to disagree but aggressive is the only thing you need to be with Zelda, if you aren't then that means she can get dins out.
 

DMG

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Aggressive once you land a hit maybe

Approach Zelda? What are you trying to do, let her win?
 

DiSQO_BuNNY

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^ exactly. Dins aren't a problem unless they're used in edge guarding or traps/combos. Otherwise, Zelda leaves herself wide open while she's in the throw animation. Zelda thrives in defense and coverts extremely well when she gets the slightest bit of momentum. Diddy has to force mistakes and openings, but not by being aggressive and just jumping in whenever he sees fit. If that worked on you, that means you can't handle aggressive play, not that the MU is dependant on it.
 
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