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Diddy in 3.5 (Diddy Ain't Dead)
- Thread starter ThatGuyYouMightKnow
- Start date
Fsmash is easy to CC at any percent, so it's not a good Kill move unless you only hit with the last hit while they are in an animation.
to get kills we need to do tech Chace down smashes, gimps/edge guarding , fairs at much higher percents, and catching them with bad DI. The bad DI thing is why I think uair is the best aerial to end combos with. Often they will think it's going to be like a falcon uair so they combo DI and hit with the strong hit.
to get kills we need to do tech Chace down smashes, gimps/edge guarding , fairs at much higher percents, and catching them with bad DI. The bad DI thing is why I think uair is the best aerial to end combos with. Often they will think it's going to be like a falcon uair so they combo DI and hit with the strong hit.
I feel like Diddy's kill moves get way more hate than they deserve. 3.0 fair killed way earlier than it should have been, and it's still an effective kill move now, albeit at higher percents. I've only ever used f-smash for hard reads and banana punishes, I've never had any of the DI or CC issues that people are always complaining about. I have nothing redeeming to say about u-throw. D-throw isn't really a kill setup anymore, so I feel like most of our on-stage kills come from banana tech chases. Given how good those can be, I think it's fair that we don't also have any easy kill set ups. Also on the topic of bananas, you'll want to use them when edge guarding now. Their knock back in the air is considerable, and being able to consistently AGT them is going to be very important to our edge guarding.
Overall, I think that we need to focus less on outright killing with smashes, and more on putting our opponents off stage (Diddy can still do that thanks to forward and back throw), covering options while they recover, and racking up damage in the process. While Diddy definitely needs his opponent to be at a higher percent to KO than in 3.0, I haven't felt like that percent was terribly difficult to tack on.
Overall, I think that we need to focus less on outright killing with smashes, and more on putting our opponents off stage (Diddy can still do that thanks to forward and back throw), covering options while they recover, and racking up damage in the process. While Diddy definitely needs his opponent to be at a higher percent to KO than in 3.0, I haven't felt like that percent was terribly difficult to tack on.
I agree edge guarding is going to be important, intercepting recoveries with bananas will be a top way to get kills.
Last night I killed a kirby at like 125 with a banana, caught his kedge jump with it and he didn't di, killed straight off the side. Catching jumps and stoping up bs with banana tosses will be really important to securing off stage stocks now, imo.
Initial hit up air has a much better angle than fair does, with a better hitbox, I think it's the better combo ender in most situations
Last night I killed a kirby at like 125 with a banana, caught his kedge jump with it and he didn't di, killed straight off the side. Catching jumps and stoping up bs with banana tosses will be really important to securing off stage stocks now, imo.
Initial hit up air has a much better angle than fair does, with a better hitbox, I think it's the better combo ender in most situations
I've really been favoring up air, now that you mention it. I liken it to the way Falcon carries people off stage with him. And speaking of bananas and ledges, I'm also a fan of shooting peanuts so that their angle takes them just past the ledge and knocks people off when they invincibility has run out. I've had a few people panic and do a few unsafe recoveries that were easy to punish.
FlamingForce
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 390
Reverse fair can mess ppl up pretty bad if they intend to DI the fair up and in.
TimeMuffinPhD
PhD in time travel and muffins.
Yo guys, was wondering what you think about the Diddy Marth matchup in 3.5? Was considering picking him up as a secondary for Marth, but wasn't sure if it was worth it.
Really mixed opinions
in 3.02 it varied on the person you asked, anywhere from 65/35 in diddys favor to 60/40 in Marth's
I think it's pretty even now. Used to think diddy lost, then I looked at it differently . Not an easy MU but diddys nuetral is strong enough to make up for losing a stock off one grab, he's one the few characters that can easily punish dtilts in neutral.
3.5 air hit bananas turns edge guarding marth from a chore/reading mix ups and punishing landing lag to just one option. Grab banana, jump above ledge, when he gets near it zdrop/dthrow and grab ledge. Regrab and repeat or hit them as necessary.
Edit: diddy does comparably the same vs marth as wolf does, but you trade some kill potential and hitboxes for a better neutral game projeectile. I wouldn't change to a secondary for marth, wolf does fine, 60/40 at worst. You'll do better just playing it with you best character than counterpicking
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Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
45-55 Marth, similar mobility... I think DDK's punish game is slightly worse than Marth's. I think we actually have slightly worse Marth syndrome than Marth does, since I think because of our combination of weight and fall speed we're really susceptable to combos.
I really love FD, DL and like SV vs Marth since all of them give me room to run around and get punishes. It's a bit harder to get the rinse and repeat edgeguards like we do vs Sheik, but the concept feels similar.
It feels a bit annoying trying to kill some characters, but I think I might just work some more footstools into my game to finish some stocks.
I really love FD, DL and like SV vs Marth since all of them give me room to run around and get punishes. It's a bit harder to get the rinse and repeat edgeguards like we do vs Sheik, but the concept feels similar.
It feels a bit annoying trying to kill some characters, but I think I might just work some more footstools into my game to finish some stocks.
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Venom_909
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2014
- Messages
- 160
Over the next month ill get more info on mus from playing all the people in socal. After a 4 hour training session with RCizzle i think i decided to main diddy > wolf. I was doing some really really cool stuff and kinda want to push Diddys game especially after the nerf when people wanna say hes not as good.
semi proof of concept of something I theory crafted in like, 2.6, and what me and hashtag tried to develop before he quit mid 3.0, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP3HDK1a2Ng
Nothing frame perfect or really optimized in this video, but a lot of frame traps if the z-drops are frame perfect, good reAGTs can only be rolled out of, etc. Although with shield DI its possible to just make the bananas miss all togeather. Similar things coming soon.
Nothing frame perfect or really optimized in this video, but a lot of frame traps if the z-drops are frame perfect, good reAGTs can only be rolled out of, etc. Although with shield DI its possible to just make the bananas miss all togeather. Similar things coming soon.
Oh was wondering, since GuruKid moved on to MK, who is heading the Diddy balancing? Is it DLA still, or are you doing it, or is it a joint effort from most of the backroom?
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
It and MK has been a joint effort. I would say there isn't a character where there is one or two people only who are working on them. Why, what's up?
Just wondering, honestly.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
I almost gave up on Diddy Kong before this tournament. Instead I beat Kels for the first time in months. Been labbing a lot harder since then so I can catch back up. Diddy ain't dead.
Damn good ****
So what do you think about the falco mu? I think of all the spacies it's the most manageable.
When was the last time Kels went fox vs you? I don't think fox is innately worse than the other spacies, but fox+counterplay feels much worse than the other spacies. Running shine approaches are no difficult to deal with when put in well.
I'm iffy on wolf, I think it's worse than falco on paper, but easier than fox because of slightly slower run speed+slightly worse approach aerials. I only have a few games worth of exp vs other wolfs, neon, and he us a significantly better player than me so I could be over reacting. Joe said wolf/diddy was even ish but I don't think chillin does the counterplay as well as he could. Smashgod's play in the diddy mu really scares me. Smashgod and okami know the diddy MU the best I've seen from fox's side.
I think fox, samus and peach are the only characters diddy really struggles with. Wolf/sonic potentially.
Shff homing missle cancel makes it impossible to recover vs samus.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
Kels always kind of alternated between Fox and Falco against me, though towards the end of 3.02 he was going mostly Falco. He's a really campy player and he's the best Melee player in the state (or maybe the region) so once he learned the Diddy MU, I was in trouble. He pretty much just shut me down with lasers and camped on platforms when he had the lead. His Fox gave me a hard time too. He's just a really good player--he could probably do more in the counterplay department too. As far as Wolf goes, it was his easiest spacie MU for sure in 3.02. I fought Rat and Scythe a ton, and towards the end of 3.02 I was winning almost every time. I can't say much about the MU in 3.5 since I haven't gotten to play much of it, but it seems a lot worse now that we don't have Usmash shenanigans. I'm really not prepared to make any sweeping MU statements in this update honestly, I still feel like there's a lot for me to learn.
Diddy is love, diddy is life 
Dandizzle
Smash Journeyman
Bro did you seriously take my pic? Fight me IRL
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Samurai Jack
Smash Rookie
The change of Diddy from 3.02 to to 3.5 made me real sad. Made him unplayable for me really. I depended on the cartwheel carry. Glad new meta is out though. Maybe I'll pick him up again.
DLA
"Their anguish was my nourishment."
His dash attack is still good. It starts combos if you get a late hit with it. 3.02 dash attack was super cheesy and I'm glad it's gone honestly.
DaVe^
Smash Rookie
some new tech that I wasn't aware of until an E2C tournament a few months ago.
Don't know the exact frame info/timing but if you land an AGT/GT and are close enough you can instantly side-b command grab and its guaranteed before they tech the ground. I can usually tech chase off of or start up some kind of weird mind game/side-b situations.
Don't know the exact frame info/timing but if you land an AGT/GT and are close enough you can instantly side-b command grab and its guaranteed before they tech the ground. I can usually tech chase off of or start up some kind of weird mind game/side-b situations.
GoodMorningWood
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2014
- Messages
- 19
Diddy is still fun as hell to play.
Temkin
BUSTER
I went to a tournament this weekend and was playing diddy and I just kept hearing from behind me "look who is playing smash 4" and "diddy ain't good" and a lot of trash talk about him. Can't believe diddy gets so much hate from what happened in 3.02 and smash 4.
Temkin
BUSTER
Wow diddy boards are dead. Did everyone really drop him after 3.02.
Just no one talks. Even in the skype group no one responds to questions lol. Everyone else seems content with just hoarding info and not colabing on optimizing things or even grouping for a MU chart
Temkin
BUSTER
Well I don't mind posting stuff here. It helps the meta game I think. I would personally would like to find some info from people who have been playing him longer than I have.