Diddy in 3.5 (Diddy Ain't Dead)

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

The changes:

Spoiler

-SINGLE banana only. Downb does nothing but the animation if it's tried again.
-Bananas that hit airborne now hit like mini-shines ala 2.6 bananas (hit diagonally down and away from you)
-Peanuts travel in a straighter arc (nerf AND buff, mainly a buff in reality, instant AGTing a peanut still works)
-SideB gained a lot of recovery. I mean a LOT, of recovery, even if you kick.
-SideB grab smack either has less knockback or a lower trajectory, Diddy is much closer to the ground after he smacks. Instant uair still works on most chars, wavelanding still works, but most of the time double jump + aerial will not work.
-UpB can't be charged as long (seems about halved in charge time), goes a bit shorter in distance, and gained a good amount of landing lag. Barrel misfires now no longer hit UNTIL EXPLODING OVER TIME (however, they seem to track much better now, and stay on the stage for a very long time now)
-Fair deals more knockback, but the trajectory was fixed up, so it doesn't kill nearly as fast but it still hits hard when it needs to. This was killing at around 100% for me, normally.
-Uthrow is no longer a kill throw and gained more recovery, but knocks at a much lower angle/knockback was lowered, so chaingrabs at mid percents are possible and followups off uthrow are somewhat viable due to how low the enemy ends up
-Dthrow seemed unchanged...
-Aesthetic changes

Had a nice session talking with Seagull last night and we both believe this Diddy is actually either still really good, or even BETTER than before. Peanuts are less of an antiair but they still cover options greatly, and now covers ground options better. Naners are nerfed, but they're minishines again in the air, and they KILL. (I killed Peach at around 150% with a banana in the air, literally, not even a gimp, midstage. Possibly bad DI, but regardless, it killed). SideB grab is nerfed and buffed, missing it is just more easily punished now.

The only things that I really feel are ****ing me up are sideB's recovery (holy****long) and less deep kong in general. Otherwise, I like this Diddy better than 3.0 Diddy.

Discuss.

 

[DMG]

The 1 banana change is still notable, since it gives the opponent more leeway in how they respond. Certain choices like swatting bananas might not have been as smart with 2 around, or a banana on the ground to limit options etc. A decent example would be someone like Captain Falcon: he can maybe Nair plane or deal with 1 banana at a time, but it gets to be a real hassle with 2 of them out + possibly peanuts in the fray.

The mini-shine aspect is a buff and nerf, and a lot of other stuff seems like tradeoffs, but 1 nana limit takes off a lot of pressure on the other person and probably leaves him worse overall than prior patch. Couple of chars will probably be able to "fly" at Diddy with SH aerials that linger and be much safer than before, or have swatting tilts be more useful.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

1 banana isn't as big a deal as people will think, but yeah it's a great nerf. Falcon still has peanuts to deal with, which were his main gripe before; he literally could not approach you if you at least had one banana and a popgun. He still can't approach with a SH, especially if you just SH peanut.

Seriously though, sideb recovery is insane.

 

[Pluid]

RIP in Peace, second nanner. You will be miss.

But I've been fiddling around with Diddy and so far I like his changes, I feel like he's gonna be around Mid-Tier or Upper Mid Tier.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

I realize now I missed a lot of changes in the first post because I actually wrote up what I knew myself derp

 

[Juushichi]

The 1 banana change is still notable, since it gives the opponent more leeway in how they respond. Certain choices like swatting bananas might not have been as smart with 2 around, or a banana on the ground to limit options etc. A decent example would be someone like Captain Falcon: he can maybe Nair plane or deal with 1 banana at a time, but it gets to be a real hassle with 2 of them out + possibly peanuts in the fray.

The mini-shine aspect is a buff and nerf, and a lot of other stuff seems like tradeoffs, but 1 nana limit takes off a lot of pressure on the other person and probably leaves him worse overall than prior patch. Couple of chars will probably be able to "fly" at Diddy with SH aerials that linger and be much safer than before, or have swatting tilts be more useful.

it's okay... diddy's movement is still... bananas.

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

it's okay... diddy's movement is still... bananas.

*hurls banana peel at your post*

 

[Soft Serve]

I thought he was supposed to get nerfed? Like all I see are 1 banana, up b nerf, and side b is more of a comitment. Auto trip on down throw toss also gone (imo one of his bigger nerfs)
and then boom nair hugely buffed as a combo tool, air hit bananas are crazy stupid again, he's still diddy.

For reals, I thought he was getting actually nerfed, this is sick

 

[Praxis]

I thought he was supposed to get nerfed? Like all I see are 1 banana, up b nerf, and side b is more of a comitment. Auto trip on down throw toss also gone (imo one of his bigger nerfs)
and then boom nair hugely buffed as a combo tool, air hit bananas are crazy stupid again, he's still diddy.

For reals, I thought he was getting actually nerfed, this is sick

Are you all nuts?

They made all of his moves easier to SDI. Usmash, Fsmash, RIP.

They nerfed Fsmash knockback.

They nerfed fair angle.

They nerfed recovery a lot.

They nerfed utilt.

They nerfed side B.

They nerfed dash attack by a lot (it's 2.5 DA except no banana pickup)

They nerfed banana game badly. Only one banana means that if your opponent takes it, your ability to control the neutral is gone or reversed. If the opponent knows how to handle naners you're screwed.


How is Diddy NOT way way worse in every respect?

 

[Soft Serve]

The nerfed him but I was expecting much harder hits
they normalized SDI on his smashes but removed multiple frames they had to potentially do it.

I was expecting him to get massacred, all they did was add comitment to his kit

 

[Praxis]

First they came to nerf the Ivysaurs, and I did not speak out— Because I was not an Ivysaur.

Then they came to nerf the Sonics, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Sonic.

Then they came to nerf the Mewtwos, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Mewtwo.

Then they came to nerf the Diddies—and there was no one left to speak for me.

 

[Baky]

How is Diddy NOT way way worse in every respect?

Jeez I'm scared to play later today...

As long as he is a fun, goofy, unorthodox, tricky character that he's always been in this game. I'll be fine.

Like seriously, getting reads and baiting opponents with PM diddy is the most satisfying thing in all of smash games. So I suppose even if he's nerfed a bunch, as long as he is still the trickster- I'll stick by him.

 

[Hella Vetica]

Does dash attack offstage hold any applications anymore? I can't seem to find uses for it.

 

[Baky]

Yeah I kinda don't like that it sends you flying off stage but without the added utility. Why would they continue to allow you to go offstage with the move? You're begging to be gimpped if you dash attack your opponent at low percent near the ledge.

I like the new dash attack personally but I think the aforementioned aspect of it is a nerf for no reason. No way that could be intentional.

 

[fraggle]

i never played brawl but from what it seems besides GT naners diddy now doesnt have a solid approach. Thats the biggest thing to me....now you have to play him in the neutral like super buff brawl diddy...which kinda sucks. im sure other people have different opinions but now it just seems like the optimal thing to do would just be camp and try and shoot peanuts...then when you get a hit its a 4 string combo at the most....also that thing like simple WL back F smash is not a great bait anymore.

 

[Mystryu]

I feel like the 2 bananas was OK with diddy, that shouldn't have changed all that needed to changed was recovery, fsmash, and fair. His dash attack doesn't get them trapped anymore when doing it off the ledge for a d air. Not mention his side b is completely f**ked, they completely changed the game. (Coming from a Diddy main)

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Usmash is still good. It was never as amazing as people thought because you could SDI towards the ground and shield, but no one ever did it to begin with.

Fsmash was always dead after people started realizing you could just CC and shield it like Sheik fsmash.

Fair still kills around 90 or 100% and is STILL a long ass ranged aerial that extorts his body. That's good enough. And at that, the weak hit was buffed to hit harder too.

He still has two more options to recover than most characters do, he still recovers from longer ranges than most characters do, and the barrel misfire is still there, even (this amazes me even if it's nerfed). If you have a banana in hand you can hail **** at them to cover yourself still. Who else can even do that. Link and Peach can't.

SideB still leads to ridiculous followups after the grab, but the recovery nerf was inevitable and definitely necessary. Yet, remember, Sonic lost his recovery sideB. Diddy didn't. Ganon is only JUST NOW gaining another recovery option, and it isn't even that great of one.

DA is kind of bad ONSTAGE now, but it's still undeniably amazing to use on platform stages and off the ledge.

He's worse, but not by very much at all lol.

 

[Soft Serve]

Fair is still ****ing amazing
new-up throw is stupid for follow ups
Nair got hugely buffed

New tilt banana pull is godlike
Side-b is a comitment, whatever. Recovery is harder, it was expected

EVERYONE PLEASE USE Z-DROP BANANAS FOR EDGE GUARDING, ITS LITTERALLY A SHINESPIKE

 

[Juushichi]

Diddy is still really good, he's not going to hold your hand though.

 

[Pluid]

This guy said it best, and it definitely applies to Diddy.

 

[robosteven]

I like how up-throw doesn't kill anymore, new dash-attack is perfect, and fair has been reduced from "stupid good" to "good."

I like 3.5 Diddy.

 

[Baky]

Yeah I got to play a ton of friendlies last night with Diddy and I'm going to say he's still good.

For my particular style he's even better. Diddy before could be a little difficulty to kill with, without using reads/baits but now it feels like I have a few easier kill setups.

 

[Pluid]

3.5 Diddy feels like what Diddy would have been if he were in Melee.
This Diddy is perfect, I'm glad he was nerfed so now all the frauds who only used him to exploit him will find someone else to use.

 

[EddyBearr]

Does the new/old dash-attack combo? (I never played Diddy until 3.02 because I didn't have PM)

Is it now easier to get longer wavedashes with Diddy due to the wavedash mechanic changes?

Does up-tilt still combo fast-fallers/bigger-characters into itself or into DI-based follow-ups?

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

new DA combos better technically, but most people weren't DIing DA the right way before it got changed anyway lol

 

[FlamingForce]

New DA is aight, it can put people above you all nice and cozy and helplessly waiting for a followup.

 

[SpiderMad]

The landing animation extra lag or whatever on side-b helps with platform cancels

Fair is still ****ing amazing
new-up throw is stupid for follow ups
Nair got hugely buffed

New tilt banana pull is godlike
Side-b is a comitment, whatever. Recovery is harder, it was expected

EVERYONE PLEASE USE Z-DROP BANANAS FOR EDGE GUARDING, ITS LITTERALLY A SHINESPIKE

You mean weak banana pull has a new angle or something?

The nerfed him but I was expecting much harder hits
they normalized SDI on his smashes but removed multiple frames they had to potentially do it.

I was expecting him to get massacred, all they did was add comitment to his kit

removed multiple frames to potentially..what? what?

Are you all nuts?

They made all of his moves easier to SDI. Usmash, Fsmash, RIP.

They nerfed Fsmash knockback.

They nerfed banana game badly. Only one banana means that if your opponent takes it, your ability to control the neutral is gone or reversed. If the opponent knows how to handle naners you're screwed.

Well it's "handle a naner" now lol. I'm confused myself what I'm suppose to do since I only get 1. The Brawl thing was have one out, one in hand, and shoot peanuts. Now I feel like I just want it in front of me or on a platform in front of me while I shoot peanuts and then go from there or something.

We gotta break down the Fox MU, when our u-throw CG's him at what percents, when Up-smash works to sweep him up.

Was up-tilt and f-tilt buffed or nerfed I thought I'm hearing both

We have a better than average spot dodge right?

Gonna try landing the non-banana hand slap as a disrespectful edgeguard

 

[FlamingForce]

Well it's "handle a naner" now lol. I'm confused myself what I'm suppose to do since I only get 1. The Brawl thing was have one out, one in hand, and shoot peanuts. Now I feel like I just want it in front of me or on a platform in front of me while I shoot peanuts and then go from there or something.

Keep it close, shoot peanuts. Practice snatching it out of the air right after it hits a shield, if it happens under a platform you can waveland on it to grab it and retreat at the same time.

You gotta figure out the best ways to throw it while being able to somewhat safely retrieve it in the event that it doesn't connect.

 

[EddyBearr]

Keep it close, shoot peanuts. Practice snatching it out of the air right after it hits a shield, if it happens under a platform you can waveland on it to grab it and retreat at the same time.

You gotta figure out the best ways to throw it while being able to somewhat safely retrieve it in the event that it doesn't connect.

I already play Young Link in Melee and utilize bomb-regrabs-off-shield extensively. This is music to my ears. I should be getting 3.5 tomorrow.. can't wait.

 

[IronChar]

This guy said it best, and it definitely applies to Diddy.

and fox, with his shine gimping

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

I think that dude needs to learn how to SDI ...

 

[EddyBearr]

I think that dude needs to learn how to SDI ...

You should be able to normal DI out of such a simplistic combo, but it's not that easy.

Nerf link pls

 

[Thane of Blue Flames]

You should be able to normal DI out of such a simplistic combo, but it's not that easy.

Nerf link pls

Already did.

 

[EddyBearr]

Already did.

Nerf harder pls. Link is supposed to be a bad character.

 

[robosteven]

Link is supposed to be a bad character.

64mind

 

[Bape]

SH turnaround nanner pull seems like a much more viable approach when the opponent is offstage or on a platform above you

 

[SpiderMad]

SH turnaround nanner pull seems like a much more viable approach when the opponent is offstage or on a platform above you

why? did it get a new angle or somethin?

 

[Seagull Joe]

is garbage now. Endlag on everything that matters.

 

[Baky]

I forsee a lot of problems with playing diddy in the future.

On the surface, I felt like I could play the same diddy but then matchups felt so different.

Diddy's recovery is not good whatsoever. Its very gimpable/edgeguardable by even the worst players. All 3.5 characters were not affected in this way.

So far, I see matchups like shiek and link becoming much worse for diddy.

 

[robosteven]

does this mean Mario vs Diddy is now a 10-0