thegreatkazoo
Smash Master
Shade, your point is duly noted. However, is this what you believe in? If it isn't, then you really aren't contributing to the debate by mentioning this point again and again...
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DHAI--Does Religion inadvertently promote bigotry?
- Thread starter thegreatkazoo
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Shade613
Smash Apprentice
I can't really tell if Xsyven is understanding my point and I might not be understanding Xsyven's point.
thegreatkazoo
Smash Master
Correct me if I'm wrong, but methinks Xsy is trying to say that there is nothing wrong with religious people, but when religious beliefs get in the way of rights which should be universal to all (such as the right to being in a same-sex couple), he gets a little p!ssed--as he probably should be.
If I am wrong Xsy, let me know.
If I am wrong Xsy, let me know.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
I understand that. I believ that gay marrige should be legal to. Xsyven said something along the lines of not understanding why religious people think gay marrige is wrong and I tried to explain it.
No, he would probably say "I disagree with your opinion of Will Smith, but I won't condemn you for having it."
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
Are you Xsyven? GoldShadow sounds and looks nothing like Xsyven.
You're kidding right?
Xsy's whole point was that he is, and that people should be, more tolerant. So yes, that is what he would say.
A debate is not limited to two people, at least not when it's on a (semi-)public forum. One person can address another person's points.
Xsy's whole point was that he is, and that people should be, more tolerant. So yes, that is what he would say.
A debate is not limited to two people, at least not when it's on a (semi-)public forum. One person can address another person's points.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
That is true but, I'm speaking to Xsyven and it might be strange to you but when you speak to someone you usally expect the same person you spoke to to respond.
...if you whole heatedly wanted to kill another human being, then yes. Yes I would be offended.
What point are you getting at here, I don't get where you're going with this. It's different to hate one person for who they are, than to hate an entire group of people for what they are.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
No it isn't that big of a difference. I hate someone for being a liberal, liberals are a group so that means I hate an entire group of people. You said you didn't understand why you are hated and I'm trying to explain. I just wonder why they won't just let people go to hell.
What are you talking about-- it is a big difference.
Hating people for what the believe in is one thing-- hating people because of the color of their skin, hair, eyes, sexual orientation, height, weight-- "god given" human traits. That's wrong. That's what I'm getting at.
Despite what you may think, homosexuality is not a choice.
Hating people for what the believe in is one thing-- hating people because of the color of their skin, hair, eyes, sexual orientation, height, weight-- "god given" human traits. That's wrong. That's what I'm getting at.
Despite what you may think, homosexuality is not a choice.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
If its not a choice than it seems like a mental problem because homosexuality is useless to humanity as a species.
Alright, that itself is a different debate for a different day.
I mean, I could tell you now, but idiots like you have a hard time understanding the concept of 'normality'. And as such, I'd rather not waste my time.
Get back on topic.
I mean, I could tell you now, but idiots like you have a hard time understanding the concept of 'normality'. And as such, I'd rather not waste my time.
Get back on topic.
Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises
Smash Hero
And how exactly is homosexuality a mental problem? You are misguided, again, from what I have seen.
One is born with homosexuality; sexual orientation, no matter what it is, is not a mental problem.
Xsyven's right, this is a different debate altogether (plus, what you've said is not nearly as true as you seem to think).
Even if, for a second, we assume it's a "mental problem" (it's not), then why don't you hate schizophrenics, bipolars, depressives, dyslexics? These are not choices. But you don't hate these people. Why?
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Wow... you actually managed to prove the topic correct in a single post. I am impressed.
Shadow13
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
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To quickly answer the question, yes, I would say that some relgions promote bigotry, but not all of course.
As already mentioned, some religions say that if one is not of the faith then they can't be saved. Another example is Christians being against homosexuals. I think that technically Christians only say it is bad to act upon being a homosexual, but that is still saying that they can't do what they want. It is easy to see why that would make homosexuals angry, imagine if you were told that having sex that was pleasurable to you was sinful and you would rot in hell for it. Sounds bad, doesn't it?
More on topic, since many religions do say that doing certain things are bad, it makes people who do those things seem like bad people. This is how some religions promote bigotry.
As already mentioned, some religions say that if one is not of the faith then they can't be saved. Another example is Christians being against homosexuals. I think that technically Christians only say it is bad to act upon being a homosexual, but that is still saying that they can't do what they want. It is easy to see why that would make homosexuals angry, imagine if you were told that having sex that was pleasurable to you was sinful and you would rot in hell for it. Sounds bad, doesn't it?
More on topic, since many religions do say that doing certain things are bad, it makes people who do those things seem like bad people. This is how some religions promote bigotry.
Yeah, this is what Mormons do too.Shadow13 said:
I'm pretty sure my oldest brother is homosexual-- he hasn't admitted anything, but we've found stuff that leads us to believe he is. But he's still 100% Mormon, and refuses to break that faith. He's living a celibate, and lonely life for a heaven that, I personally, don't believe in. He's depressed because he's lonely, and he doesn't have anyone to go home to at night. He calls me, saying he has no friends, and that he's been getting more anxiety attacks than he usually gets.
Repressing sexuality drove me into a deep depression, which can cause antisocial behavior and suicidal thoughts... and I gave in when I was 19. He's about 26 now. I can't imagine how he's feeling, and I'm sincerely concerned for his well being. And its all because of the pressure that the church is putting on him.
It's all messed up. The whole thing, its outdated bull****.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
You have boosted my ego alot.
Now olny the public needs to realize this so gay people will be treated equally. Though I do wonder how the religions will act.
You weren't following my post all the way to the end. It is useless to humanity has a species, like autism. I never said I hated gays, I said the religions hate gays. I was just trying to defend them.
Shadow13
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 27, 2009
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So you are saying that he boosted your ego by telling you that you proved the topic right, while you are defending the other side? If you are defending one side, you shouldn't want to help the other.
Also, homosexuality doesn't compare to autism like that. Autism is something that could limit the abilities of an individual, homosexuality is not.
thegreatkazoo
Smash Master
How exactly is it useless to humanity?
thegreatkazoo
Smash Master
Now, now, let's give him a chance to respond...
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
Homosexuality is useless because the main purpose of intercourse is to create babies. I'm not saying gay people can't have sex. The purpose of life is to reproduce. I'm looking at humanity has animals. If everyone woke up the next morning gay, humanity would die out. The mayfly lives for olny 24 hours and then dies. Its olny goal is to keep its species going like every other animal. The world is over populated because we are so good at keeping are species and other species alive.
You've got a lot to learn about biology!
I don't want to derail this topic, but there are plenty of examples in nature where certain members of a species don't reproduce; this is to benefit the rest of the community. The most obvious example is that of worker/soldier ants, which are sterile.
ie what Eor said, though there's still much to learn about sexual orientation and behavior in humans, and many unanswered questions.
I don't want to derail this topic, but there are plenty of examples in nature where certain members of a species don't reproduce; this is to benefit the rest of the community. The most obvious example is that of worker/soldier ants, which are sterile.
ie what Eor said, though there's still much to learn about sexual orientation and behavior in humans, and many unanswered questions.
Zero Beat
Cognitive Scientist
What about people who have sex for the sake of pleasure? Would you not agree that the main purpose of sex for that certain group of individuals is not reproduction?
At a fundamental level, yes, the survival and reproduction of a species is prioritized. However, we're animals with the ability to formulate goals and sub-goals, so on and so forth.
Saying "Gays can't reproduce, so they're useless" is as useless as you're trying to make them seem.
Besides, you don't see them having abortions
. If anything, they're more likely to adopt, which is actually a life changing choice for both parties.Same sex couple: "We can't reproduce, but we want babies."
Person in need: "Life sucks, I want a home."
Boom.
Edit: Crap, sorry I didn't notice this was the Proving Grounds.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
That may be true for ants but, we are much more advanced so the soldier and the civilian can both do the same things, so there is no reason one shouldn't be able to reproduce. The reason you/I were/was born with a ****/****** was to reproduce.
I'm not trying to make gays seem useless. I support the idea that homosexuality is a mental problem because it is useless for them to go through intercourse. If it is seen as a mentall problem people won't hate them because they can't help themselves. I think people see homosexuality has a choice right now. Also I think gay people should be able to have adopted children has long has they teach them good values. Infact my best friends parents are lesbians.What about people who have sex for the sake of pleasure? Would you not agree that the main purpose of sex for that certain group of individuals is not reproduction?
At a fundamental level, yes, the survival and reproduction of a species is prioritized. However, we're animals with the ability to formulate goals and sub-goals, so on and so forth.
Saying "Gays can't reproduce, so they're useless" is as useless as you're trying to make them seem.
Besides, you don't see them having abortions
Same sex couple: "We can't reproduce, but we want babies."
Person in need: "Life sucks, I want a home."
Boom.
Edit: Crap, sorry I didn't notice this was the Proving Grounds.
I hate that intercourse is seen has something recreational because this happenshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fFruY6wrd8
Also don't derail the already derailed debate.
Shade, I think that people here (and likely everywhere else) are taking objection to your choice of words, but not necessarily the facts of what you're stating.
When you say homosexuality is a mental "problem" there is a clear connotation that it is a negative thing to have such a condition. Thus, you're calling all homosexuals inferior.
It may very well be the case that homosexuality is caused by mental abnormalities at birth. But so is being funny or liking sardines. Placing value statements on people that are different JUST because they are different than you is what we are calling wrong (and bigotry).
When you say homosexuality is a mental "problem" there is a clear connotation that it is a negative thing to have such a condition. Thus, you're calling all homosexuals inferior.
It may very well be the case that homosexuality is caused by mental abnormalities at birth. But so is being funny or liking sardines. Placing value statements on people that are different JUST because they are different than you is what we are calling wrong (and bigotry).
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
I'm not using problem has negative. Society over reacts to everything. Just because they have a "disability"/"illness"(are you happy now?) doesn't mean they can't succeed. A great example of this is Glenn Beck's daughter who was born with ceribel polsy(I don't know how its spelled) graduted from colledge despite the fact the doctors said she wouldn't be able to walk or talk.
Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises
Smash Hero
Illness or disability?
...What?
Homosexuality is no illness or disability; it is a sexual orientation, decided by behavioural genes.
I shall try not to sound irritable, but please read up on homosexuality on Wikipedia or another reliable source.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
You can't read all the way to the end can you? I said those words because "problem" is apparently "offensive". Autism is also a problem in the genes.
There is no non-negative way to use the word "problem" when refering to someone else.
I would also object to using the term disability and illness. Neither are factually correct, nor connotatively neutral. A gay person is not unable to reproduce, just disinclined. And it certainly isn't an illness under any definition of the term I've heard of.
You seem rather insistent on using a negative term for homosexuals, and then passing it off as "just a word", and scoff when anyone takes offence. Don't expect us not to notice. And yes, words matter a great deal.
I would also object to using the term disability and illness. Neither are factually correct, nor connotatively neutral. A gay person is not unable to reproduce, just disinclined. And it certainly isn't an illness under any definition of the term I've heard of.
You seem rather insistent on using a negative term for homosexuals, and then passing it off as "just a word", and scoff when anyone takes offence. Don't expect us not to notice. And yes, words matter a great deal.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
What word am I supposed to use? Tell me what word am I supposed to use? I wasn't using them has negative I just have absolutley no idea what word to use since everything is apparently not politicaly correct.
It's not a matter of political correctness.
Don't do that. You're so obvious. If you're going to try to play this game, then at least act better. You throw out three words that are obviously negatively connotative, and then try to throw it back at me when none of them are acceptable.
Why don't I just change your username to "StupidFace" then? No? How about "DumbHead". Still no? How about "IdiotCranium" Well, GOD, what CAN I call you?!
You can refer to homosexuals as such, or gay/lesbian and be perfectly safe. When speaking in a scientific sense about the underlying cause for their disposition, you can say abnormality as I have. It is factually correct, and connotatively neutral.
What you CAN'T do is make blanket statements saying that gays have "mental problems" and then act you meant nothing of it when people get offended.
Why don't I just change your username to "StupidFace" then? No? How about "DumbHead". Still no? How about "IdiotCranium" Well, GOD, what CAN I call you?!
You can refer to homosexuals as such, or gay/lesbian and be perfectly safe. When speaking in a scientific sense about the underlying cause for their disposition, you can say abnormality as I have. It is factually correct, and connotatively neutral.
What you CAN'T do is make blanket statements saying that gays have "mental problems" and then act you meant nothing of it when people get offended.
It's a preference. Lets pretend for a minute that you prefer eating celery over chocolate. You're a minority-- but that doesn't mean you have a 'problem', 'disease', or 'illness'. It just means you happen to prefer celery over chocolate. You didn't choose to like celery over chocolate. It's just how you are.
Take those same principles into sexual preference. I prefer men over women. I'm a minority, but that doesn't mean I have a 'problem', 'disease', or 'illness'. It just means that I happen to prefer men over women. I didn't choose to like men over women. Its just how I am.
Take those same principles into sexual preference. I prefer men over women. I'm a minority, but that doesn't mean I have a 'problem', 'disease', or 'illness'. It just means that I happen to prefer men over women. I didn't choose to like men over women. Its just how I am.
Shade613
Smash Apprentice
You olny heard negative because that is what you wanted to hear. We aren't speaking in person so we will never know how we sound. Homosexuality is an abnormality(Is everyone happy now?) because it is useless to humanity has a species.
Wrath`
Smash Master
I so wish I could find the Science article to prove that what I am about to say is Legit, but Homosexuality might have developed into usefulness for tribes.
When the men would go on Hunts, they left the Homosexual men to protect the women, and since the they are homosexual, there was no chance of the cheating with the straight hunters wives.
If I find the article I shall post it up
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