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#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Generalizing it to ambiguous factors like "player levels" or a reason like "hardasses" is something I'd expect from a power ranking thread. Mafia is a particular game that operates on particular principles. The game state we are successful on bears similarity to the "liberal" nature of accepting players with individual quirks and styles that may not confirm to regular play. Mafia games are play to win, but so are mafia games on other sites. And you can't convince me that the games where everyone is afk until the last 2 days of the game can be seriously taken as any sign of hardassing. Mind you, any contribution from any of those players about how they contributed to their individual games would be more pertinent than broad sweeping generalizations about how great this community is and how we are all wonderful mafia players.

Keep living folks.
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
My first girlfriend unexpectedly broke up with me (so I got to learn what a nightmare heartbreak is), my grandfather's Alzheimer's is so bad that he forgot his dosage and how recently he'd taken meds so he accidentally OD'd on blood thinners (he's recovering, though, so that's good), and my grandmother had knee surgery and the physical therapists aren't satisfied with her recovery thus far. My home church is in debt and we're losing money monthly, my mom is having unexplained violent coughing fits that she's gone to three different doctors about and they can't identify the problem, and my dad wants me to get a day job because apparently working 5 hours a night (usually up until 11:00 or midnight) most nights per week doesn't count as full time for the summer. Additionally they're demolishing my old high school, but the county is so poor that they might not have enough money to build a new one anymore. Oh, and the turbo blew in my car, so I had to go get that entirely replaced.

On the upside, I've not died up to this point. So that's good.
Much love to you, dude.
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
Things are going a bit better now, the world hasn't ended, and I'm moving along. Thanks for the support, guys.
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
Theory of Mind

Reading others. Interpreting the thoughts and feelings of others by reason or intuition.

Analysis

Coming to logical conclusions from complex sets of premises. Sorting and weighing through data to build meaningful arguments.

Cooperation

Willingness to work with others. Capitalizing on group dynamics. Voting in a meaningful and influential manner. Involvement in the game. Agency in advancing the game.

Equanimity

Mental and emotional composure.

Sway

Influence on the outcome of a game. Influence on the actions of other players.

Tact

Effective use of words. Speaking with purpose. Presenting thoughts with clarity.

Strategy

Determining efficient routes toward victory. Maximizing victory potential. Developing and maintaining contingencies. Reacting effectively to new information.

Cunning

Managing the perceptions of others. Orchestrating the downfall of opposing factions.



Xivii

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis
5

Cooperation
9

Equanimity
5

Sway
7

Tact
4

Strategy
8

Cunning
7.5



Ryu

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis
5

Cooperation
4

Equanimity
8

Sway
4

Tact
4

Strategy
4

Cunning
5



soup

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis
5

Cooperation
6

Equanimity
6

Sway
5

Tact
5

Strategy
5

Cunning
5



Ran

Theory of Mind
7

Analysis

5

Cooperation

9

Equanimity

8

Sway

4

Tact

4

Strategy

4

Cunning

5



Ryker

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

6

Cooperation

6

Equanimity

5

Sway

8.5

Tact

4

Strategy

8

Cunning

9



marshy

Theory of Mind
8

Analysis

6

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

9

Swag

10

Tact

7

Strategy

4

Cunning

5



Laundry

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

2

Sway

6

Tact

5

Strategy

8

Cunning

5



ZoXo

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

8.5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

6

Sway

6

Tact

7

Strategy

8

Cunning

7.5



Gheb

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis

5

Cooperation

4

Equanimity

6

Sway

5

Tact

4

Strategy

8

Cunning

5



Kary

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

4

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

4

Sway

5

Tact

5

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



J

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

8

Cooperation

8

Equanimity

6

Sway

7

Tact

8

Strategy

5

Cunning

6



Maven

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis

5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

5

Sway
5

Tact

5

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



Bardull

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

6

Cooperation
4

Equanimity

1

Sway

4

Tact
4

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



Nabe

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

5

Cooperation

4

Equanimity

9

Sway

5

Tact

9

Strategy

6

Cunning

7.5​


This is the result of hundreds of thread-combing hours, rigorous peer review, and objective mathematical analysis. Each stat is a conglomerate of sub-stats. I've excluded these in the presentation, but keep in mind that due to opposing sub-stats, some stat values may deviate a good deal from what one might expect. For example, the "Cooperation" stat contains the sub-stat "Participation"; Consequently, the situation may arise where a player would score low on their willingness to work with others, but still have a high "Cooperation" value due to being highly active (high "Participation" rating).
 
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#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Xivii Xivii The premise that Theory of Mind is the ability to read others and your self-attribution of a 6 does not inspire much confidence within me with respect to the accuracy of this list.
 
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#HBC | Acrostic

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Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that this is not the same theory of mind based on Piagetian child development separating 2-7 year olds from 7-12 year olds from 12+ years olds with respect to preoperational, concrete, and formal operational type of thinking. Because even I would be remiss to assign numerical values that low to any user on the site based on my impression of their mafia competency.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Back in the day, before that horrible Ender's Game movie with Harrison Ford which I left because it was terrible, I identified with Ender's Shadow. I will now proceed to spoil the essence of the book. Ender's Shadow was the foil to Ender's Game in the sense that it provided an alternating perspective from the person who was supposed to replace Ender as a contingency plan. This person was Bean. Bean through hardship was not only holistically intelligent, but his understanding of others came across as second nature. So much so that when he tried to identify with Ender because he immediately grasped his unspoken problems, Ender always misunderstood Bean's attempts to console him.

Even from a rudimentary children's novel it captured the notion that understanding intrinsic human nature and human thought is a dull, dismaying process. The fact is that it's impossible to attribute whether a lack of understanding comes from a lack of perception, a lack of holistic understanding of motive based desires, or a lack of energy to attempt to understanding the blatherings of the person who is sitting next to us on the subway. The most insightful person in the world could be staring right at the granny with obvious presentation for symptoms of sciatica, but if they have to sit in the seat because its test day they will appear on the surface to be insensitive or socially blind. The feedback we get from the noise of social ineptitude leads us to develop a framework of the mind that more often than not everyone we meet on the street has no social IQ.

And so when we finally arrive at a rare situation in which two people with equivalent competency can sit down and have a discussion, they are emitting noise instead of signals because they have fallen into a pattern where it's more effective to treat all people as being socially inept rather than investing in the possibility that there could be someone else with the same disposition. Perhaps we are all Bean looking for an Ender, when in truth we would find more companionship with other Beans in our local area.
 

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
Location
swag
cool stats zen. always dug stuff like that

glad to see you include my swag stat to preserve objectivity. swag track of the week

 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
Theory of Mind

Reading others. Interpreting the thoughts and feelings of others by reason or intuition.

Analysis

Coming to logical conclusions from complex sets of premises. Sorting and weighing through data to build meaningful arguments.

Cooperation

Willingness to work with others. Capitalizing on group dynamics. Voting in a meaningful and influential manner. Involvement in the game. Agency in advancing the game.

Equanimity

Mental and emotional composure.

Sway

Influence on the outcome of a game. Influence on the actions of other players.

Tact

Effective use of words. Speaking with purpose. Presenting thoughts with clarity.

Strategy

Determining efficient routes toward victory. Maximizing victory potential. Developing and maintaining contingencies. Reacting effectively to new information.

Cunning

Managing the perceptions of others. Orchestrating the downfall of opposing factions.



Xivii

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis
5

Cooperation
9

Equanimity
5

Sway
7

Tact
4

Strategy
8

Cunning
7.5



Ryu

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis
5

Cooperation
4

Equanimity
8

Sway
4

Tact
4

Strategy
4

Cunning
5



soup

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis
5

Cooperation
6

Equanimity
6

Sway
5

Tact
5

Strategy
5

Cunning
5



Ran

Theory of Mind
7

Analysis

5

Cooperation

9

Equanimity

8

Sway

4

Tact

4

Strategy

4

Cunning

5



Ryker

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

6

Cooperation

6

Equanimity

5

Sway

8.5

Tact

4

Strategy

8

Cunning

9



marshy

Theory of Mind
8

Analysis

6

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

9

Swag

10

Tact

7

Strategy

4

Cunning

5



Laundry

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

2

Sway

6

Tact

5

Strategy

8

Cunning

5



ZoXo

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

8.5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

6

Sway

6

Tact

7

Strategy

8

Cunning

7.5



Gheb

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis

5

Cooperation

4

Equanimity

6

Sway

5

Tact

4

Strategy

8

Cunning

5



Kary

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

4

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

4

Sway

5

Tact

5

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



J

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

8

Cooperation

8

Equanimity

6

Sway

7

Tact

8

Strategy

5

Cunning

6



Maven

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis

5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

5

Sway
5

Tact

5

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



Bardull

Theory of Mind
4

Analysis

6

Cooperation
4

Equanimity

1

Sway

4

Tact
4

Strategy

5

Cunning

5



Nabe

Theory of Mind
6

Analysis

5

Cooperation

4

Equanimity

9

Sway

5

Tact

9

Strategy

6

Cunning

7.5​


This is the result of hundreds of thread-combing hours, rigorous peer review, and objective mathematical analysis. Each stat is a conglomerate of sub-stats. I've excluded these in the presentation, but keep in mind that due to opposing sub-stats, some stat values may deviate a good deal from what one might expect. For example, the "Cooperation" stat contains the sub-stat "Participation"; Consequently, the situation may arise where a player would score low on their willingness to work with others, but still have a high "Cooperation" value due to being highly active (high "Participation" rating).
If I disagree with you, does that only verify that my equanimity is low?
 

Maven89

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
3,828
Location
decisive games

Maven

Theory of Mind
5

Analysis

5

Cooperation

5

Equanimity

5

Sway
5

Tact

5

Strategy

5

Cunning

5




This is like being in highschool and having someone write "u r really nice" in your yearbook

My own self assessment

Theory of Mind
7

Analysis
7

Cooperation
4

Equanimity
1

Sway
5

Tact
4

Strategy
5

Cunning
6
 
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BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
I think my equanimity is actually much higher than is stipulated here (5-6 assuming a 10 is someone who regularly handles emergencies like doctors, refined policemen, active battlefield militants that can keep calm). I attribute this increase mostly to my job which has had me deal with over 10,000 unique individuals, and I get all sorts of characters, both the good and the bad.

Damn Xivii hit me with dat clean stats list snub ;_;
I would definitely hit you with that sad react if I could. :(
 
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#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
Location
swag
zen seems to have a higher opinion of me as a player than i thought he would lol. maybe leviathan got me a few points :p
 

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
Location
swag


btw werent you among the first to create big drama over levi possibly being zozo? i was salty when all of that started but it was kind of hilarious. zozo is my alt

ran "what do you think of my play" maru WOULD want to read those stats
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas


btw werent you among the first to create big drama over levi possibly being zozo? i was salty when all of that started but it was kind of hilarious. zozo is my alt
LMAO! I honestly don't remember who started what, I'd have to check the thread. I remember Raziek dropping mod IP checks, **** was hilarious.
 

#HBC | marshy

wanted for 3rd degree swag
BRoomer
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
3,928
Location
swag
yeah dude. and then gova was like "uh i was talking to zozo about this game" and then people thought zozo was cheating LMFAO! i was sitting in my chair ROLLIN at that **** tho i felt a bit bad for zo. the best posts were the "i KNOW youre zozo" to me. **** was top quality drama and lols

i thought it was dope how people thought i was zozo when i genuinely tried to play a traditional game. @#HBC | ZoZo is clearly my mafia other half

EDIT i think mods found that i was using a proxy based in the netherlands and then everyone thought it was zozo definitively LMFAO!
 
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Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
Out of curiosity, I'm assuming that this is not the same theory of mind based on Piagetian child development separating 2-7 year olds from 7-12 year olds from 12+ years olds with respect to preoperational, concrete, and formal operational type of thinking. Because even I would be remiss to assign numerical values that low to any user on the site based on my impression of their mafia competency.
Your assumption is correct. The terms are adopted, but the concepts behind them are strictly related to Mafia. They describe nothing outside the bounds of Mafia game threads, and nothing outside of Mafia game threads influence their values.

Damn Xivii hit me with dat clean stats list snub ;_;
I didn't include some players, because I either didn't have enough data or because I thought there was a low chance of them logging on. In your case, I didn't have enough (relatively recent) non-hydra data.

I think my equanimity is actually much higher than is stipulated here (5-6 assuming a 10 is someone who regularly handles emergencies like doctors, refined policemen, active battlefield militants that can keep calm). I attribute this increase mostly to my job which has had me deal with over 10,000 unique individuals, and I get all sorts of characters, both the good and the bad.
I mean, that's all irrelevant. I'm looking at it from the perspective that all the mafia players are characters, separate from the humans that control/operate/manage them. If you come at it from that perspective and look at Bardull the character, his value for that stat is well-founded. He hasn't made it through a single game without either self-destructing or blowing up.

zen seems to have a higher opinion of me as a player than i thought he would lol. maybe leviathan got me a few points :p
Leviathan is definitely responsible for the Tact value. When I think about it though, he honestly did make me understand you as a player and a person so much more than I did before.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
I think a better example of someone with low equanimity would be Badwolf or perhaps Rake. Granted they got upset for good reasons (mostly because some of us were being ****lords at times to provoke a reaction and an inevitable lynch).

I'm 99% sure Badwolf blew up in almost all his games if not all. At least on DGames. Kinda messed up honestly. We were much younger and a lot less mature and **** happens.
 
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Maven89

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
3,828
Location
decisive games
I'd put self destruct under tact. When I think equanimity, I think of Laundry running away from the last (3? 4?) games he's played, or me shouting at people.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Like my dudes, if you are going to even pretend to scum read three people, then why are you policying Badwolf on D1. That's the one thing that always got to me. Some people just wouldn't act on their reads, would lose the game, and then be like, "I had 4/5 scum on my read list, I'm a God. You guys need to listen to me." You know who you are, even though your mother ****ing read list had none of those people on it until it was LYLO time and those people were on your vote train making it nothing more than an elevated OMGUS.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
You can put me down as a 0 for equanimity. I dropped out of games due to the combination of inactivity and some guy coming out in the last 5 minutes of the day throwing a Hail Marry Pass to save the game and that tilted me when they got full thread control. All the time I was thinking, you realize you are seceding authority to this guy just based on who they are and not how they played the game. That's why I wish if Zen was serious about this list, he could step back and be honest that there is something contrarian about him assigning himself a mediocre theory of mind score and then defending this laundry list of numbers when there are meme ratings in there. Maybe there's something within me that just gets agitated when there is something that exists between the line of serious and troll. But I hate pseudoscience or the faux pas application of even PSYC-101 terms to attempt to legitimize something.

I've noticed that in order to get along with people these days, you really need to suck their **** 24/7. Especially girls, they really do think that every opinion they hold is immutable in its own rights and an inspired act of God. Like when they discover the concept of a correlation, they think it's ingenuous and they have it put it on twitter. I wish that people were more objective, but then again perhaps I'm just too antagonistic. I realize as I reach my late 20s that I am missing that drive for companionship that cause some men to go head over heels in the pursuit of some *****. I still find myself more defined by my failures, my weakness as a human being, and the fear that my plans for survival are largely insufficient. When it comes to surviving, I see people who have lost everything. I've seen nursing homes strip a paraplegic of their home, their car, and their right to existence outside of the nursing home because they can no longer self sustain themselves. When you have nothing to your name, then can you really consider that living?

When you are faced with that or when you have gone through some of the stuff ranmaru ranmaru has gone through being homeless it changes you. I don't know, maybe there's a mental disorder like YIPS associated with the refusal to forget that moment when you were the most broken to the point that you honestly considered suicide to be a viable option. Then when you transition to that to hanging out with some yuppie girl with cute hair and a nice trust fund, she is trying to let you in by talking about Netflix and common interest points. But she doesn't know you, she doesn't look like she has had to cut deep into herself and ask her if she was thrown on the street with nothing to live for if she would also choose to fight everyday to make her life matter.

Then I come back here and I'm staring at these number rankings and Zen sort of being a douchebag assigning some random piece of **** numbers to people as if he could piece meal a holistic assessment of a single person when a psychiatrist can only figure out patterns of behavior, but are still far away from understanding why those patterns exist. Sometimes I wish that we could just be real, talk about how we really feel, instead of going through all this nonsense about doing X, Y, or Z as if that were what it was really about. Perhaps I'm asking for too much. Perhaps for some people the cut is too deep and if they open up then they expect others to jump into the rescue and to fit the pieces inside them. Maybe other people are afraid of exposure or just have the right people that they expose themselves to on a regular basis. I never believed in an internal posse, I suppose I'm again too afraid of develop a bias and being too...comfortable with a given system. Who knows.
 

#HBC | Acrostic

♖♘♗♔♕♗♘♖
Joined
Jan 31, 2010
Messages
2,453
Straight up. The worst part is when you'd have those cocksuckers that would lynch Badwolf D1 on policy and if he town they would argue his existence as a player was anti-town and when he flipped mafia, then they would argue they had him all figured out. Like ****, if you really wanted to autofellatio yourself over being a piece of **** then let's just ram a Badwolf lynch everyday. Man. Those Badwolf lynches. Man-o-man.

Those were good times.
 
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BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
LMAO omg Acro

SPEAKING THE TRUTH

I'm not sure about the girl shtick tho, I think we both know everyone's different and not everyone thinks their opinion is infallible, but everything else is dead on HAHA

I think Zen's attempt at trying to objectively quantify interpersonal relations and things of that nature on a 1-10 mafia context scale is interesting but of course it's extremely difficult to succeed at it (IMO impossible) and please everyone.

I think it's interesting though that he feels I blow up in every single game. I know my first game here I did not, and then there was a period where I was at war with like half of DGames with blow ups (maybe 2-3 games), but eventually the dust settled and I grew up and didn't blow up since. Perhaps it's one of those first impression kind of things where one's assessment of others just sticks around and heavily influences interactions from then on.

I'd put self destruct under tact. When I think equanimity, I think of Laundry running away from the last (3? 4?) games he's played, or me shouting at people.
This is a good point. Everyone reacts to pressure differently and it can be hard to tell how they're actually reacting in a text based game. Like you said, if Laundry disappears from the game, only Laundry actually knows why he disappeared. And perhaps you yelling is an attempt at trying to control the direction of the game, and only hindsight can dictate whether or not it may have been good or bad for your faction. We also don't know for sure what the intent was since we can't read minds.

I feel like tact and equanimity are intertwined to a degree since one's filter can change in a high pressure situation, but otherwise remain fairly tactful in a normal, no-pressure situation, not sure if one category totally encompasses another.
 
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Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
Marshy, Bard, and Acrostic, you should join my game. Just need four (4) more.

Acrostic I don't know what meme ratings means, but you really shouldn't be thinking of ToM outside of the game context that I provided. I just chose the term because it sounded cool and gave me the impression of what I was trying to express.
 

BarDulL

Town Vampire
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
5,211
Location
Austin, Texas
After this little stunt you tried to pull?

If you come at it from that perspective and look at Bardull the character, his value for that stat is well-founded. He hasn't made it through a single game without either self-destructing or blowing up.
NAW SON YOU DEAD TO ME! You gotta work on your tact stat first ;)
 
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Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
I think a better example of someone with low equanimity would be Badwolf or perhaps Rake. Granted they got upset for good reasons (mostly because some of us were being ****lords at times to provoke a reaction and an inevitable lynch).

I'm 99% sure Badwolf blew up in almost all his games if not all. At least on DGames. Kinda messed up honestly. We were much younger and a lot less mature and **** happens.
I feel like some form of the last line has been said every year or so since forever, but the same sort of things have continued to occur each time.
I'd put self destruct under tact. When I think equanimity, I think of Laundry running away from the last (3? 4?) games he's played, or me shouting at people.
I think self-destruct is exactly what Laundry did. The two terms are definitely correlated though. If I consolidated the terms even more, "Equanimity" would be a sub-stat of "Tact". I don't think your equanimity is that low at all. I can't speak for your actual feelings, but to go off what you've presented, you never come off as absolutely losing your **** to me. I couldn't see you taking things so personal that you would quit or do something that would screw over your faction—would you?

After this little stunt you tried to pull?



NAW SON YOU DEAD TO ME! You gotta work on your tact stat first ;)
No worries, dude. I don't think I'll ever be very tactful lol.
 

Maven89

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 26, 2014
Messages
3,828
Location
decisive games
No, I never take things in mafia games personally, but there are times I would get really upset and insult people because I was upset. I was a real jackass to Soup the last few times we played and there was no reason for it.l
 

Spak

Hero of Neverwinter
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
4,033
Location
Earth
I think the only person I've ever played with that I've lost my cool over is Moosey. This was me right after getting lynched in Gheb's Messy Mafia Madness:

Also, speaking on Moosy's play, I still find it absolutely abhorrent. Everything I said about his play was genuine, and I can't stand playing with someone who trolls all game long and gets away with playing scummy because it's his "playstyle." If someone can play like complete and utter garbage with a fairly solid case against him about dodging valid questions and accusations, then get someone with literally no case against him lynched because person 1's playstyle is to look scummy 24/7, that's just pathetic. If everyone followed Moosy's playstyle demonstrated thus far in this game, scum would win literally every game and there would be no point to playing in the first place.
Also, I just realized that it's been over two years since Revival of DGames. My goodness, that was a good first big game. Thanks for hosting that one, Bard!
 
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