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- Thread starter Tom
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Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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JayTheUnseen
Smash Champion
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I'm glad to have Project M style back. I hate that gray tone we had yesterday.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
So did anyone vote in the ballot and why did you not vote for Wonder Red.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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Splatoon Inkling is more important.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
I feel like this is a wasted vote because if that one is not added as DLC it will be definitely be added in the next game anyway.
Dooms
KY/KP Joey
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It's not a wasted vote if I want them in this game instead of the next one that may not even happen. >__>
Fandangox
Smash Lord
Which one was the next one?
Fandangox
Smash Lord
From what I have seen, K.Rool, Shovel Knight, Wolf, Inklings, Snake, Isaac.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
how is jeff NOT a popular wagon
Fandangox
Smash Lord
Most likely because he is an assist trophy, and Lucas was just announced, so people assume chances for any other Mother character is pretty null.
Jeff is my favorite, but I voted for my boy Roy.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
el oh el
roy's a joke
roy's a joke
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
guys ridley no
BarDulL
Town Vampire
I voted Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy 7, because he is the ultimate warrior and has a giant sword and has super saiyan hair and omgerd so g00d. My second pick was Malzahar from League of Legends.
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I actually voted for Geno. Super Mario RPG op.
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I actually voted for Geno. Super Mario RPG op.
Maven89
Smash Master
sapphire blue or **** you
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Totally forgot about Totoro. ****.
I'll MM you in Melee and then the joke will literally be on you.
#HBC | Laundry
Grand Sage of Swag
I'd vote for Neku if I thought that guy had any chance of getting into the game.
Alas, he probably won't. I wanna vote for Tetra or WW Ganondorf instead.
Alas, he probably won't. I wanna vote for Tetra or WW Ganondorf instead.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
oh ill get wrecked but hes still a joke. smash doesnt need five fire emblem characters, with three of them being the same thing.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
im down to take your money in smash 4 doe
I'll be in Florida tomorrow.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
Where in Florida?
He'd be a VERY interesting character, but yeah its not happening.I'd vote for Neku if I thought that guy had any chance of getting into the game.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
ill house you dawg u think im kiddin ill fuxkin wreck u
Maven89
Smash Master
I went to an Elder Scrolls lore subreddit and asked them which race they would consider the most evil
They called me a racist
They called me a racist
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
dawg that IS pretty ****ed up doe
Maven89
Smash Master
Wait seriously? Sometimes i can't tell with you
My argument is pretty simple. Is it racist to call Orcs in LOTR evil? No, because that's how they're presented. Is it racist to say Dunmer are demon worshiping slave owners? No, because that's how they're presented. Is it racist to say worshiping demons and keeping slaves is evil? No, obviously not. So the Dunmer, as they're presented in the game, are pretty evil.
My argument is pretty simple. Is it racist to call Orcs in LOTR evil? No, because that's how they're presented. Is it racist to say Dunmer are demon worshiping slave owners? No, because that's how they're presented. Is it racist to say worshiping demons and keeping slaves is evil? No, obviously not. So the Dunmer, as they're presented in the game, are pretty evil.
#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
i'm kinda surprised because i thought that ES kinda inherited that fantasy genre where some races and peoples were just evil, and that was kinda the point- some people wanted to RPG as a callous murderer dude.
that being said it wouldn't surprise me to see someone getting their jollies by being politically correct about a fantasy setting on the internet.
that being said i don't know what you were expecting in asking that question in the first place lol.
Also, I heard Groose was a popular choice for Smash4
Kappa
that being said it wouldn't surprise me to see someone getting their jollies by being politically correct about a fantasy setting on the internet.
that being said i don't know what you were expecting in asking that question in the first place lol.
Also, I heard Groose was a popular choice for Smash4
Kappa
#HBC | Joker
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You make good arguments for why Dunmer are Evil. But seriously? The Altmer. Go play through Oblivion and Skyrim again, and then make me a list of Altmer characters that you meet, who don't turn out to be bad guys. Between both games, you can probably count that list on one hand. Every High Elf you meet is a villain, really.
Maven89
Smash Master
Oh, yeah, my choice was the Altmer. I just used the Dunmer as an example. Personally hoping the next game is a elf murderfest since Skyrim never really allowed you to do that. I mean they even give you an axe that does more damage to elves, but where are the elves you can slaughter?
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#HBC | Joker
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There's Aldmeri dominion guys walking all over the place in Skyrim.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Except that's not true of all dunmer or even all dunmer political structures and furthermore you could look at many other races and give similar critiques.
The presentation of orcs is as a monolythic whole, their nature is purely evil because they were a race designed for that express purpose by Morgoth, on the other hand (and this is probably partially because your character can hail from any race) all members of all races in TES are presented as individuals with their own agency, so generalizing their inherent natures from the actions of a few or their government is wrong. All governments in the elder scrolls are or have been involved in, you could argue that dark elf culture has substantial issues but placing them as an evil race is wrong.
You probably got that criticism because looking to generalize inherent evil from the actions of one's government, from issues with one's culture, or from the actions of a few when applied to humans is in fact quite racist. People were presumably calling you out on it because of how close the line of thought is.
Also, I'll note that a common criticism in LOTR is it's overt racism.
A bit of confirmation bias there, the Aldmari dominion is clearly evil but off the top of my head I think of multiple figures involved in the college of winterhold such as the mage you initially meet when trying to gain entrance to the college and the mage you meet in the Azura's star quest.
The reason why one would get that impression is that the Aldmari dominion has a lot of presence in skyrim (due to the Nord's commitment on the Talos issue) and otherwise there are relatively few high elves present in the game. The remaining high elves vary between good and bad in about the same proportion.
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#HBC | Kary
Fiend of Fire
lol adum
you know, for as much as skyrim was a game about exploring corridors and hitting things with sticks, the underlying story about the politics and history of skyrim was really cool, all that white-gold concordant &etc
you know, for as much as skyrim was a game about exploring corridors and hitting things with sticks, the underlying story about the politics and history of skyrim was really cool, all that white-gold concordant &etc
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
PRetty much, I really love the underlying setting and picking out a race as "evil" definitely is a poor illustration. It entirely misses the point of much of the characterization in the games.
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Maven89
Smash Master
Nah, when a fantasy world has eight different races, all with their own beliefs and cultures, and some of those cultures are revolved around worshiping demons, death, slavery, genocide, and destroying the ****ing world, I think it's more then safe to label some of those as evil, even if it makes someone uncomfortable or there are outliers.
Now yeah, they do all have problems, but when the question is "who is the most evil", well that's different. Because I think you can easily say one of those races are more inclined to evil then others. Racism is wrong in our world because it's not accurate. In TES forming a personality based solely on a race is basically 100% accurate. I don't remember meeting a single high elf that didn't have a superiority complex over other races or a Dunmer who was against slavery.
Though, I'll admit I never played Morrowind so maybe there's that
I mean the Khajity are almost entirely thieves. That's canonical to the game itself, and it's regularly told to you Would you say it's racist to repeat that information that the game world gives you?
Now again I was just thinking it'd be a fun discussion, people arguing which race was the most evil, but the idea that it's racist is preposterous. The game does present the races as being largely unified in their beliefs and culture, and you can easily judge those things. I mean on a lot of ways they're all evil, they all have problems and I really do love the TES world and that there is no clear "evil" race, but which of those races is the most evil I actually find to be an interesting and light moral discussion.
Now yeah, they do all have problems, but when the question is "who is the most evil", well that's different. Because I think you can easily say one of those races are more inclined to evil then others. Racism is wrong in our world because it's not accurate. In TES forming a personality based solely on a race is basically 100% accurate. I don't remember meeting a single high elf that didn't have a superiority complex over other races or a Dunmer who was against slavery.
Though, I'll admit I never played Morrowind so maybe there's that
I mean the Khajity are almost entirely thieves. That's canonical to the game itself, and it's regularly told to you Would you say it's racist to repeat that information that the game world gives you?
Now again I was just thinking it'd be a fun discussion, people arguing which race was the most evil, but the idea that it's racist is preposterous. The game does present the races as being largely unified in their beliefs and culture, and you can easily judge those things. I mean on a lot of ways they're all evil, they all have problems and I really do love the TES world and that there is no clear "evil" race, but which of those races is the most evil I actually find to be an interesting and light moral discussion.
#HBC | Gorf
toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
no not seriously, anyone taking an offense to a video game universe's race like that is a skid mark on the human race
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Or maybe you're being told that to characterize the person who says it as a racist. Sentiments of racial animosity are a major part of the elder scrolls universe and pretty much every cultural group in the TES universe has been revealed to have signifigant race issues.
The thing is you're generalizing based on incomplete information, if your only encounter with high elves was the aldmari dominion then of course you're going to think every high elf has a superiority complex, but plenty of high elves outside of the aldmari don't treat you that way (the aforementioned two for example) and while I can't remember any dumner outright opposing slavery in skyrim, I also can't remember any endorsing it.
Though, in Skyrim slavery had been illegal in the Morrowind province for a very long time because a dumner king that you support eventually outlaws it (Hlaalu Helseth) but prior to that there was significant debate in the great houses over the issue with Hlaalu heavily opposing it and Dres and Telvanni endorsing it, but even then there was infighting between individual members.
Another example of this is stated outright that nords in general are distrustful of magic, however there are many nord mages in Skyrim.
The only practical way that you can get this is if it's held up this way in TES online, which is a standalone universe that is directly stated to be non-cannonical to the other games and the other games to it. Since I've made my distaste for it claiming to be "the real elder scrolls universe" known I've never played it and don't care to though it wouldn't surprise me if part of it's lore changed included turning every character into carbon cutouts of their racial stereotypes, but that's a failing on TES online's part and not a general commentary on the series, it's always been more nuanced. Even then, an essential nature argument is weird.
The thing is you're generalizing based on incomplete information, if your only encounter with high elves was the aldmari dominion then of course you're going to think every high elf has a superiority complex, but plenty of high elves outside of the aldmari don't treat you that way (the aforementioned two for example) and while I can't remember any dumner outright opposing slavery in skyrim, I also can't remember any endorsing it.
Though, in Skyrim slavery had been illegal in the Morrowind province for a very long time because a dumner king that you support eventually outlaws it (Hlaalu Helseth) but prior to that there was significant debate in the great houses over the issue with Hlaalu heavily opposing it and Dres and Telvanni endorsing it, but even then there was infighting between individual members.
Another example of this is stated outright that nords in general are distrustful of magic, however there are many nord mages in Skyrim.
The only practical way that you can get this is if it's held up this way in TES online, which is a standalone universe that is directly stated to be non-cannonical to the other games and the other games to it. Since I've made my distaste for it claiming to be "the real elder scrolls universe" known I've never played it and don't care to though it wouldn't surprise me if part of it's lore changed included turning every character into carbon cutouts of their racial stereotypes, but that's a failing on TES online's part and not a general commentary on the series, it's always been more nuanced. Even then, an essential nature argument is weird.
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