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[#HBC | Gorf]

having one particular character won't be a deal breaker for people buying smash. it's gonna move hella copies. but i can't refute the rest.

 

[Circus]

That's just arguing semantics though.

The point is that doc and dark pit are separate roster slots due to the philosophy Sakurai laid out in his explanation of lucina. They are effectively alt costumes that took no more development time than, say, giving villager a female equivalent.

Sure. But they didn't really have to be, from a character point of view. Lucina is a separate character, with her own fanbase, and giving her a modified, cloned moveset from another character is a simple way to feed the fans of that character. Doctor Mario, purely from a character stand point, could have worked about as successfully as an alt for Mario as Hoodie Mac works for Mac. In my opinion.

From a fighter standpoint, I recognize that Doc had mechanical differences from Mario in Melee, and I'm sure he'll have plenty in this game too. But you can do that with anyone. You can make Mr. L a separate character and give him a tweaked version of Luigi's moveset. You can make Shiny Greninja a separate character and give him a tweaked version of Geninja's moveset. At a certain point of proximity, the distinction in terms of character just feels absurdly minor, and the difference in playstyle doesn't feel like it justifies the separation to me. If we have Doctor Mario and Dark Pit, then why not Dark Link, Mr. L, Dark Samus, Young Link, Pichu, Raichu, Shadow Mario, Hilda, etc?

Personally, though I realize "clonification" isn't ideal for any character, I think at least trying to appeal to the fanbases of characters like Ridley (Charizard) and Mewtwo (Lucario, assuming they have no way of excavating assets from Melee) would have been more worthwhile, considering for how long and how loudly they've rallied for those characters. How many people who even adore Dark Pit would have gone unsatisfied with a palette swap?

It doesn't ruin the roster or anything. I don't have to play as Doc or D. Pit. I hope that whoever likes them enjoys them in the game. I just feel the same way about them as I do about Baby characters in Mario Kart and Mario Party. To me, it's clutter.

 

[Kantrip]

Sure. But they didn't really have to be, from a character point of view. Lucina is a separate character, with her own fanbase, and giving her a modified, cloned moveset from another character is a simple way to feed the fans of that character. Doctor Mario, purely from a character stand point, could have worked about as successfully as an alt for Mario as Hoodie Mac works for Mac. In my opinion.

From a fighter standpoint, I recognize that Doc had mechanical differences from Mario in Melee, and I'm sure he'll have plenty in this game too. But you can do that with anyone. You can make Mr. L a separate character and give him a tweaked version of Luigi's moveset. You can make Shiny Greninja a separate character and give him a tweaked version of Geninja's moveset. At a certain point of proximity, the distinction in terms of character just feels absurdly minor, and the difference in playstyle doesn't feel like it justifies the separation to me. If we have Doctor Mario and Dark Pit, then why not Dark Link, Mr. L, Dark Samus, Young Link, Pichu, Raichu, Shadow Mario, Hilda, etc?

Personally, though I realize "clonification" isn't ideal for any character, I think at least trying to appeal to the fanbases of characters like Ridley (Charizard) and Mewtwo (Lucario, assuming they have no way of excavating assets from Melee) would have been more worthwhile, considering for how long and how loudly they've rallied for those characters. How many people who even adore Dark Pit would have gone unsatisfied with a palette swap?

It doesn't ruin the roster or anything. I don't have to play as Doc or D. Pit. I hope that whoever likes them enjoys them in the game. I just feel the same way about them as I do about Baby characters in Mario Kart and Mario Party. To me, it's clutter.

Yeah I agree. I think Sakurai just wanted other alt characters so lucina wasn't the only one.

It's arbitrary for sure and I'd rather dark pit and Mario be costumes with no mechanical differences. Hell I'd rather lucina be an alt for march using the same mechanics as him too tbh

 

[Circus]

Maybe,

from what I recall from what people were saying it was more likely they didn't want the 3DS to compete with the WiiU version. That and/or the WiiU version has a lot more bug fixing needed and visual fixing.

I just recall an early interview with Sakurai in which he mentioned having trouble getting Ice Climbers to work on the hardware, but they were trying to fix it. Given that, and how few other veterans were cut from Brawl (Ice Climbers being the only ones who didn't originate in Brawl), it seems like the most likely reason for them not to be included is because they couldn't be. At least not without making the rosters asymmetrical across platforms. That seems ****ty to me. It's like if one member in your circle of friends is lactose intolerant, so none of you get to eat ice cream. And you never even really liked that friend; you only talk to them because they're friends with your other friends.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i think it's all hardware. i think that's why there are no double characters.

**** now that i think about it why is sheik still in? she's been in one non smash nintendo game, and even though she's unique... she's dated. i honestly think the idea behind not moving on is a cop out, there are much better slot opportunities than certain characters that are in and bigger roster doesn't necessarily mean BETTER.

but like i said, it'd take something drastic for me not to buy a smash game, and millions agree with me. sakurai has a loooot of creative flexibility lol

 

[Raziek]

Really? I thought it was a 3 remake, but I actually just got it and haven't had a chance to play it yet.

I got out fire-emblemed, I am ashamed. *commits seppuku*

Oh well, maybe the fact that they keep remaking his games is a good indicator of his popularity

Don't play it, it sucks.

Edit: That's also the reason we didn't get 12. Shadow Dragon was not well received.

Edit 2: Electric Boogaloo

@ #HBC | Gorf : Sheik is extremely popular from Melee, and is heavily linked (albeit not directly anymore) to Zelda. Cutting her would be very strange.

She's also getting an appearance in Hyrule Warriors, so is still relevant.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

yea but that was an OoT thing. so was young link. and now there's toon link. cuz that makes sense. sheiks lost her relevancy, and the only reason she's in hyrule warriors is cuz of the damn fan base.

 

[Raziek]

the only reason she's in hyrule warriors is cuz of the damn fan base.

Congratulations, you've now answered your own question as to why she wouldn't be cut from Smash.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

bah. i know why she isn't but that doesn't mean she shouldn't. it's really really dumb.

 

[Gova]

Man you guys complain a lot and here I am hoping that Marina Lightyear would make it in.

 

[Raziek]

If I have to google them to find out who they are, chances are probably pretty slim.

Amusingly, I actually do own Mischief Makers, I just haven't played it.

 

[Gova]

Give me your copy. You're never gonna finish it anyways.

 

[BarDulL]

Shadow Dragon was definitely the worst FE post FE6 (haven't played anything before FE6 so I can't really say anything about the previous games). I liked the online vs. mode for Shadow Dragon though...up until people started using gamesharked teams with max stats (and max movement which is impossible to attain), then it became completely pointless. I REALLY like FE6/7 though, definitely my favorites.

Also, unrelated, it's my birthday today, so someone should send me a copy of Xenogear Chronicles (since everyone keeps saying the game is really good...and because it costs like $60 on amazon and eBay lel).

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Shadow Dragon was definitely the worst FE post FE6 (haven't played anything before FE6 so I can't really say anything about the previous games). I liked the online vs. mode for Shadow Dragon though...up until people started using gamesharked teams with max stats (and max movement which is impossible to attain), then it became completely pointless. I REALLY like FE6/7 though, definitely my favorites.

Also, unrelated, it's my birthday today, so someone should send me a copy of Xenogear Chronicles (since everyone keeps saying the game is really good...and because it costs like $60 on amazon and eBay lel).

Happy BDay broski.

 

[BSL]

Shadow Dragon was a remake of 1.

Heroes of Light and Shadow (FE12, JP only) was the remake of 3.

****in rekt, m8


Also I don't understand why Lucina isn't an alt.

Also the videos don't come from the same leaker as the roster images, correct? So why are people assuming the roster images are confirmed?

#NoDuckHuntDog

 

[#HBC | Joker]

I still think it's all fake. Do we actually know Nintendo took those videos down? Do you know how easy it is for anyone to get **** taken down from youtube? Even the uploader could have removed it to lend credibility to their elaborate troll attempt. There's not a single character revealed in that leak that doesn't just scream "fan made roster".

 

[BSL]

Interesting.

 

[Vinylic.]

All we know is that the leaker was working at nintendo. Now he isn't and is facing hefty charges.

If you don't believe this yet, you wait for something to believe. Which is legit news or the game release.

 

[Swiss]

So where do we do the /ins for normal sized/skill games at the moment?

Example: Say I went full ******** and wanted to play an OS game (never again), which thread would signups be held in?

 

[JeXs]

So where do we do the /ins for normal sized/skill games at the moment?

Example: Say I went full ******** and wanted to play an OS game (never again), which thread would signups be held in?

The hosts make their own thread and people /in in that thread.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Man, I keep forgetting that SWF is the Marth fanboy club! You're all right guys Marth isn't MK but he almost is and if it weren't for MK Marth would be at least top 1 on the tierlist and all his disadvantageous matchups would magically become even and all his even matchups would magically become advantageous. How could I forget what I was taught in 2010

Still, Marth as an [unlockable] alt-costume for Lucina would've been more than enough.

Though I agree that Sheik could've been cut too and replaced by another LoZ character. Would've loved to see Bayonetta, Isaac, Lloyd or Kratos / Zelos as newcomers as well. Though I'm very happy with virtually all of the newcomers, especially Shulk.

 

[Raziek]

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

They should put the hulk in Smash Bros just for the play on words. His release trailer can just be him punching DK and saying "Hulk; Smash" and then Nintendo could cleverly use his knuckles to spell smash.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Man, I keep forgetting that SWF is the Marth fanboy club! You're all right guys Marth isn't MK but he almost is and if it weren't for MK Marth would be at least top 1 on the tierlist and all his disadvantageous matchups would magically become even and all his even matchups would magically become advantageous. How could I forget what I was taught in 2010

Still, Marth as an [unlockable] alt-costume for Lucina would've been more than enough.

Though I agree that Sheik could've been cut too and replaced by another LoZ character. Would've loved to see Bayonetta, Isaac, Lloyd or Kratos / Zelos as newcomers as well. Though I'm very happy with virtually all of the newcomers, especially Shulk.

This is all it takes to become a "Smash Debater", ladies and gentlemen.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Now I remember why I stopped posting in here again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

dude i can't believe im saying this but gbizzle is completely right.

 

[BarDulL]

Re: Marth

Marth, especially in Japan (where it really really counts), is the face of the FE franchise, so keeping him in the game makes sense. He's not nearly as recognized outside of Japan because the game series stayed in Japan for ages, but he's definitely Japan's main FE squeeze. To not add him but to add characters like Robin/Lucina would be like not adding Kirby but adding Metaknight and D3 (which I actually wouldn't mind 'cause I'm not big on Kirby lel but you get the point).

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

no. it wouldn't. cuz even though some ******* may see marth as the face of fe... HE'S NOT. that's like me saying syd barrett is the face of pink floyd just cuz he was the frontman first. he's not. roger waters is.

edit

better example: it's like if nba2kx would have michael jordan on the cover of every edition. why don't they? cuz the face of basketball changes over time. today it's lebron. tomorrow it may be some up and coming. but it's not michael anymore.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea man, it's totally the same thing. Get that Link fool outta here, it's time for a new icon! And Mario? More like "Old news-ario". It's all about Luigi these days, get the "past his prime plumber" and chuck him in the dumpster. He has no place in Smash Bros.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

you're actually ******** for using that as an argument.

but if i must, the mario franchise is CENTERED around mario. the zelda franchise is CENTERED around link's story/ies. fe fluctuates main characters throughout its series. it makes fire emblem fire emblem, rather than marth emblem or whatever dafuq. olimar isn't the face of pikmin, the pikmin are. that's why pikmin 3 is the way it is. kirby is the star of the kirby franchise. samus is the star of the metroid series. need i go on?

 

[#HBC | Joker]

You just described Pokemon, yet Pikachu isn't going anywhere, and nobody expects him to.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

on the topic of sheik, i wouldve loved to see her replaced with SS impah, would be swag

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

pikachu is the star pokemon in the anime. it's similar, sure, but i think that difference makes it good enough to warrant mascot material

 

[BarDulL]

you boners are saying marth isn't the face of FE but you don't live in japan *palm le face*

of course he isn't recognized outside japan that much (the only marth game to be released here was shadow dragon which really wasn't great and did horribly in sales, while in japan they've had like 3~ marth games [and he was the first lord]), that's why i prefaced my statement with 'in japan (where it really really counts)'

>:[

 

[BarDulL]

on the topic of sheik, i wouldve loved to see her replaced with SS impah, would be swag

would definitely love to see impa tho

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Marth (マルス, Marusu, alternatively translated as Marsin the anime), the Hero-King, is a character from the Fire Emblem series of video games. He is the central protagonist and Lord-class character of the original game,Fire Emblem: Ankoku Ryū to Hikari no Tsurugi and Fire Emblem: Mystery of the Emblem, as well as their respective remakes.

that's 4 total games, 2 of which are remakes. there are 13 total games, 3 of which are remakes. that makes marth either in 2/10 actual games or 4/13 total games, however you wanna see it. i'm not arguing that he's the icon, i'm saying that it's ******** that he's the icon because the damn franchise itself doesn't even consider him the icon. the protagonists switch, the stories switch. that's the thing about fire emblem. if they wanted it to be a marth centered series they would. but THE FANS made it a marth centered series. and it's dumb.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Well he is technically in awakening

 

[#HBC | Joker]

How is it dumb? Smash Bros is basically a giant vehicle of fan service, why would they remove the character who is a fan favorite just because Gorf thinks it's weird that he's a fan favorite?

 

[BarDulL]

that's 4 total games, 2 of which are remakes. there are 13 total games, 3 of which are remakes. that makes marth either in 2/10 actual games or 4/13 total games, however you wanna see it. i'm not arguing that he's the icon, i'm saying that it's ******** that he's the icon because the damn franchise itself doesn't even consider him the icon. the protagonists switch, the stories switch. that's the thing about fire emblem. if they wanted it to be a marth centered series they would. but THE FANS made it a marth centered series. and it's dumb.

i know what you mean. i actually had a similar talk about this with someone regarding jigglypuff. literally the only reason jigglypuff was a character in the original smash64 is because she was super popular in japan at the time, lel. i'm not saying i condone the decision making but from a marketing perspective, and for appeal, it makes sense. but in america it's like..."jigglypuff? seriously? why not blastoise or dragonite or charizard something." granted charizard is in the game now but i'm speaking strictly about 64.

if i could have it my way i'd bring out hector or oswin or some other cool FE characters into the mix (and keep marth since i'm a shameless marth main from melee and bawrl lelelel, but i'd make the trade for hector over marth most likely).

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]