DG Archive & MVPs

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm pretty sure a lot of game mods wouldn't like the panel if MvP was or wasn't given out without their consent.

It sucks that some mods give it out too much or some refuse to give it out much if at all but thats the breaks for joining their game.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Bias matters if we're having a small panel. Big panel, sure. 7-8 people? The biased opinion can get outvoted. But 3? All the person has to do is be stubborn with his opinion and spew **** that seems relevant and he'll get his way.

You should be awarded MVP for that example, though :v. You were the MVP, therefore you deserve the MVP award. Just because the town played bad doesn't mean you don't deserve an award for destroying them.

What I get from this is this:

If you choose to join a game of Me, Ran, Bardull, Soup, etc, then MVP should be nullified because of the fact that the player list was bad? Wouldn't that just encourage separation between player lists? Amateur & Pro in a sense?

implying i'm bad

also this system is silly

going mad conservative right now and change scares me

 

[Dooms]

iIrc, you haven't proven that you're better than any of the other players I mentioned. Also, you're not bad. Neither am I, Ran, or Bardull. We're just no where near the level of a top tier player like Xonar.

That's pretty off topic though.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

G3S and Math Blasters, dooms.

Add Britches and Hoses too.

SFII was meh.

 

[Ramen King]

Vinyl. for gold dice imo.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You and I both know how much I like to experiment with my style, Soup.

G3S was tough luck mainly, though. Kuz and Ryker replacing into two cleared slots? Red Ruy hammering without even being sure of it and Kuz ready to swing the lynch? My partner is Bardull, our traitor basically suicided D1?

I can keep going, but using G3S as an example is bad, lol. I guess Math Blasters semi counts but more often than not my style is experimental.

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

Is this proposition a reaction to Jdietz mafia?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

It's a reaction to the MVP craze that shows up after EVERY GODDAMN GAME.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

No that wasn't meant towards you that was meant towards me

I admit Werekill was obvious scum but I pinned Red Ryu within 5 minutes of D2.

In G3S town just hard bodied

Britches and Hose I called John2k4 before I died

*shrug*

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

It's a reaction to the MVP craze that shows up after EVERY GODDAMN GAME.

In the end it is the moderator's choice. The moderator, by theory, should be the least partial.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So goddamn is allowed... but bas***d isn't?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

My problem is getting people to listen to me, I don't get enough respect to get what I want and I end up becoming a background player, I need to learn to be more convincing.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No that wasn't meant towards you that was meant towards me

I admit Werekill was obvious scum but I pinned Red Ryu within 5 minutes of D2.

In G3S town just hard bodied

Britches and Hose I called John2k4 before I died

*shrug*

Too bad calling people is far from enough. You can have godlike reads but if you can't convince others, you're bad, to be blunt.

lol you ninja'd me. It's not your credibility/respect, bro. For example, Ryker has lost several games for town by playing how he does, but he still convinces people to follow him. You're also waaayyy too green. You keep playing this standard town game that makes you a background player, because you'll take the bullet sooner or later any way. It also doesn't add too much credibility when you throw all your reads out there like that.

In the end it is the moderator's choice. The moderator, by theory, should be the least partial.

A panel + the mod of the game decides then? Small things like this doesn't matter. The main thing is a solution to this MVP stuff every single game.

"Deal with it" isn't a solution.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

People don't listen to me because people don't expect to play good due to my old behavior, I've improved ten fold and I can back up my statements, I can't help if people are stubborn.

That's what burns me the most.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No, read my edit. Your mindset is terrible. Never blame others when you don't get what you want.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Then what do I do?

This is a serious question.

oh hard ninja'd

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You learn how to convince people. Try things out. Having someone else tell you what you should do in a personal experience like mafia is never a good thing.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I remember when there was such thing as a critique thread for this type of thing.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I remember when Gheb and Bardull got salty too!

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Man they *** skeet salt.

 

[Ramen King]

My problem is getting people to listen to me, I don't get enough respect to get what I want and I end up becoming a background player, I need to learn to be more convincing.

That's why we make a good hydra. I can get people to listen to me, but my reads are wrong. The only problem is that I end up not listening to you myself.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I'm sorry for getting off-topic just burns me to get called out like that. I'm not aiming for any status i'm just aiming to get some respect, I still play mafia because it's fun and I wouldn't quit if someone told me I was bad, really it only drives me to improve.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Soup, most of the things I do, I do to get people to look up to me. It's what I get a thrill from. The motivation is not bad, you just need to recognize your issues and try to fix them. You can't really do something right without doing it wrong first.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

What the Gorfster hears:

Man I wish I was as good as Gorf.

Yea if you do this and that you'll almost be as good as Gorf.

Gorf is a god amongst men.

I wish I can blow him.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Soup:

ethos, pathos, and logos

You have logos. You also have pathos, but the wrong kind ("People don't listen to me because of my play of old." <- this is self-pity and it comes off as whiny). You have NO ethos, and sorry to say but that's just something that needs to be built over time from having the other two.

My suggestion: Just play like you normally do until you think you've caught scum. Then shift gears into trying to convince people of your reads. Don't be purely logical about it. Be passionate. Be genuine. Be active. Make analogies and metaphors to why your right and why others are wrong. Don't just be logical but make your posts striking. Try to constantly win over votes.

Also, don't be afraid of being an indian if you have to. If someone who has more ethos than you is already on the same track that you want to go, then go on and ride it out with them. Fight for THEIR cause, not yours, and in the end if they're right then you might earn an endorsement form them. That really helps.

@Xonar: Well, honestly, if other people are just plain dumb and stubborn than I honestly don't see why it's NOT fair to complain about it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

But people aren't, especially not in this room.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You and I both know how much I like to experiment with my style, Soup.

G3S was tough luck mainly, though. Kuz and Ryker replacing into two cleared slots? Red Ruy hammering without even being sure of it and Kuz ready to swing the lynch? My partner is Bardull, our traitor basically suicided D1?

I can keep going, but using G3S as an example is bad, lol. I guess Math Blasters semi counts but more often than not my style is experimental.

I did just want a hammer, but you were on my needs to die list after your claim to be neighbors with the flipped traitor.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Okay? Does that change the point? :v

Really don't see why you felt the need to post that haha.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

But people aren't, especially not in this room.

Aiming for that pathos with the Dgame community, eh?

Perhaps dumb was a strong word for it. "Wrong" would probably be a better word to use.

Also you're probably right that people usually aren't stubborn. I'm just thinking of Ryker.

Still though, people being "wrong" and "stubborn" about something does happen. You can not deny this.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yeah, but that combination often has clear catalysts. "Wrongness" can be argued, "dumbness" can't.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Okay? Does that change the point? :v

Really don't see why you felt the need to post that haha.

Just wanted to clarify the, why I quick lynched there.

Still it's something that is up to Gheb to decide in that case, same for the likes of Hearts mafia. I don't agree with an MvP, but it's still up to Deitz and Zen to let one out.

There are times though I feel a decision is wrong or right.

F&L, you get MvP, Rajam could have gotten it too since he played his part in the bus perfectly. But you hands down without debate deserved it in that game.

Other games I would disagree for one point or another, Gigabots had me trading wall for a while.

Still I think leaving it to the mod is the best course.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'm just suggesting a solution to a problem that has spawned more salt than Gheb ever has. If there are better solutions out there that don't compose "DEAL WITH IT", feel free to suggest.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I suppose.

I just don't like the having another group of people deciding it over the game mod.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

A panel + the mod of the game decides then? Small things like this don't matter. The main thing is a solution to this MVP stuff every single game.

"Deal with it" isn't a solution.

10jaskdaksdasdasd

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Depends on how much pull the game mod would have in the decision.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Xonar, here's what I think the problem is:

Let's say you go with a small group of people to
Judge. What exactly will make those people's bias any less prominent than the mods (as its been pointed out, people could just argue their way to
Get what thy want)

Let's say you go with a large group. How are you going to get anything done? With some exceptions, whether an MvP is given or not can fluctuate largely between people. Trying to reach a deduction would be pretty damn hard.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

If you're arguing consistency, as much as any member on the panel. Being a mod doesn't guarantee that the mod actually knows what mafia is all about. I'd sooner trust Swiss to award MVP than Inferno.

A small group lowers the amount of bias that would normally be present from 1 person. And even then, that small group CONSISTENTLY has the same "bias". That's what I'm arguing.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Ah, I see where you're getting at.


However, do you think that other people's opinions post-game about MVP have no value? It's essentially people giving their unofficial verdict. The only difference between what you're suggesting and those is that the people picked for the jury have an "official" say.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No not quite. People in the game can influence the panel, sure, but in the end they have no official say in my version.

People in the game as it is now are also oftentimes not as "qualified" as people in the panel we would bring forth. Besides, in the end their opinion is far from as powerful as the mod's opinion, where in a panel+mod structure, the people (panel) will have a strong say.

You could argue for something akin to J / Vanderzant / Ryker and you'd probably have most games covered with a good variety of opinions and views, while still having the panel composed of experienced players.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

You know even if someone knows mafia they may still not award MvP the same as someone of equal skill right?