DFW Brawl Thread: Batou Monthly, Feb 18th - Revolution 10, Mar 3rd

[Jack Kieser]

...kirbykid, take me now!

 

[Sudai]

The people who are not willing to put forth the extra effort to win will get beat by those who do.

What's more important is how you handle your victories and defeats. We all have to man up to our own style of smashing. If we are going to do WHATEVER it takes to win, we have to not lose control when we lose, and still try to be respectful off the battlefield even when we are trying every dirty, cheap trick you can think of while on it.
If we are only playing casually we shouldn't be taking too much stock whether we win or lose. More importantly, johns about someone who makes more effort than you to win is just bull. Johns about people who use certain techniques/characters is bull.

This sums up most of my opinons.

Though I was only talking about bragging, you seem to have dug this topic up. So allow me to impart some wisdom on young smashers like yourself.

You could have left it at "No, this was not aimed at you." and things would have been fine, but now I have to go through and point out all the flaws in your logic. Yay.

There's more to smash than winning money.

There's more to smash than winning.

Yes, I agree.

Johns about not doing what it takes to win when money's on the line.

Seriously? I only do gay **** during tournies or money matches. Friendlies are where you play as friends. Competitive matches are just that, competitive. Why do we play competitively? Some people play competitively for fame, some people play competitively for money, some people play competitively because they enjoy that kind of play style. I personally fall into all three categories. From what I can understand, you don't belong in the competitive environment. No offense to you, and I'm not trying to say anything about personal skill in the game (because I really don't know how well you play, I only know how you did against me and you can't judge skill based on fighting one person), but if you're not willing to do what it takes to win, you should A) stay away from tournaments or B) don't complain when people that -are- willing to do what it takes to win do it.

In other words, you don't have to sell your soul just to get a few bucks here and there and an inflated, comparatively false sense of accomplishment. It's like the ICs freeze glitch. Sure, it's neat enough to execute the glitched. But we all know doing so takes the game out of the play. It's functionally like snatching the opponent's controller out of the system. Though nothing in Brawl is this extreme, there are plenty of characters and play styles that get close enough.

You realize that the Freeze Glitch was banned in Melee, right? You also realize touching the opponent's controller is considered against the rules, right? There's one thing that is "functionally like snatching the opponent's controller out of the system" and that's the infinite grabs, which if I am correct, are restricted in Texas (good call IMO). Anything else you can work around. Would you mind pointing out strategies that do this, though? I'd gladly show you why the tactics aren't broken.

Back when smashers like me were building this community up from practically nothing, we had to make some calls and set rules/standards to promote the kind of sportsmanship and play we felt was at the heart of the game and for the best for the community.

All of you young smashers (as I call you) seem to have forgotten how things used to be. Either that, or you never knew.

Don't make assumptions. Although I never traveled for Melee or 64, I was around for a long while as well. I was around during the construction of the Louisiana Smash Scene and the majority of the people here knew that the scene is what it is. Tournies are for winning, friendlies are for goofing around. Also, you helped make the scene what it is? I'm still helping the scene grow. I'm still helping people get better at the game in my area. I'm playing my hardest and helping advance the metagame. Your little "honor codes" that you restrain yourself with actually help to hold the metagame back. Thank you, thank you for wanting Smash to stagnate. I really appreciate it. : )

So take it from me, the guy who's been playing smash since 64 day 1, who has been a part of the community since the days of Silas, and who has written more than 70,000 words of material on smash and the community, you're missing out on the best part.

Again, you make assumptions about people that you don't really know. Ever been to the ROB boards? I didn't really post much back in the Melee Era, but I'm a huge part of the ROB boards atm.

I'm not saying change the way you're playing. Just like in Ratatouille, it's nice to eat some perspective every now and then.

Again, this is what friendlies are for. FRIENDLIES ARE FOR PLAYING AS FRIENDS! TOURNAMENTS ARE FOR PLAYING YOUR HARDEST TO WIN.

Also, I don't play expecting to win. That's just being big headed. I do expect to try my hardest and do whatever it takes to win when money's on the line. If you don't find that fun, don't put money up. That's all there is to it.


Lastly, KK, I don't dislike you, but I will defend the competitive side so long as you keep bringing up why you think competitiveness is bad. I'm not going to push the issue unless you really want to go on though. I'm perfectly fine agreeing to disagree, but please don't ***** or whine when you lose to people that are willing to go the distance.

 

[*_Echo_*]

now all the small amount of respect i had for melee1 is completly gone i mean posting the same thing over and over and making a thread of it what a waste of these boards. and infinity was killng at first then he gets some gimp kills and 4 stocks him ONCE thats stupid to brag about enless u do that reapeatedly then i understand but once makes him look like a ******* srsly.

 

[ICE27]

Characters that win tournments: Snake
Characters that win tournments when Snake are present: Snake
Characters that win tournments when Snake isn't present: Any other character
Characters that name begin with "W" that win tournments: Wsnake is not a character.

 

[Sudai]

Characters that win tournments: Snake
Characters that win tournments when Snake are present: Snake
Characters that win tournments when Snake isn't present: Any other character
Characters that name begin with "W" that win tournments: Wsnake is not a character.

I laughed hard. My room mate didn't get it.

 

[DallasPhat]

Sudai get the **** out of here. If you knew he was addressing that comment towards you, you should of pmed him or something. The post you just made was ****ing useless dude. You stated that you played like a *****, understood and /agree, then proceeded to why you play liked that. Okay if you play like a ***** and no matter how much you try to defend it, in the end you're still playing as a ***** so shut up sudai and accept it.

Oh yeah mm when you get in Dallas cause I need lunch money.

 

[Hylian]

My sig is amazing.


Just sayin'

 

[Sudai]

Sudai get the **** out of here. If you knew he was addressing that comment towards you, you should of pmed him or something. The post you just made was ****ing useless dude. You stated that you played like a *****, understood and /agree, then proceeded to why you play liked that. Okay if you play like a ***** and no matter how much you try to defend it, in the end you're still playing as a ***** so shut up sudai and accept it.

Oh yeah mm when you get in Dallas cause I need lunch money.

I know I play like a ***** in tourney matches. You said yourself that I said I know that. I don't quite see what your point in this post is other than to tell me I should have taken it to PMs, however I feel validated in posting what I did here because he made the comment in this thread and there was only a chance that it was directed at me. If you're going to yell at me for not taking it to PMs, you should also yell at yourself and KirbyKid for doing the same thing. Also, I'll gladly accept that MM next time we see each other.

I said before I'd agree to disagree so we can avoid a long drawn out argument, I offer a similar agreement to you, DPhat. We can agree to disagree or you can continue to berate me (preferably taking your own advice and taking it to PMs).

 

[DallasPhat]

No sudai my point is to shut up and stop trying to defend yourself. If you're so butt hurt about someone telling you something then pm him. You flooding the Dallas thread is what upsetting me, that also applies to melee1 and kirbykid. Don't get me wrong sudai you're cool and all but I would love it if you stop flooding the Dallas thread. If you aren't going to say anything useful then gtfo.

 

[CY]

No sudai my point is to shut up and stop trying to defend yourself. If you're so butt hurt about someone telling you something then pm him. You flooding the Dallas thread is what upsetting me, that also applies to melee1 and kirbykid. Don't get me wrong sudai you're cool and all but I would love it if you stop flooding the Dallas thread. If you aren't going to say anything useful then gtfo.

I got a question for you.

How fat?

 

[*_Echo_*]

i Got A Question For You.

How Fat?

Dallas Phat!!!

 

[Daimonster]

Oh god, houstonians! This thread is done. I'll see a worthwhile post in about 10 pages or so.

On the real, I really hope everyone enjoys this tournament at dphats. We should see the birth of a whole new metagame. Hope everyone is able and willing to attend this event.

 

[Sudai]

No sudai my point is to shut up and stop trying to defend yourself. If you're so butt hurt about someone telling you something then pm him. You flooding the Dallas thread is what upsetting me, that also applies to melee1 and kirbykid. Don't get me wrong sudai you're cool and all but I would love it if you stop flooding the Dallas thread. If you aren't going to say anything useful then gtfo.

I'm really not butt hurt at all. Also, I'm not really trying to defend myself, I'm trying to defend the competitive mindset, or at least my idea of it. Again, you go against your own words though. I'm done talking about it here though as I'd rather not be the source of drama, especially in a different area's thread. Enjoy yourself.


We still on for that MM next time I see ya?

 

[DallasPhat]

Sudai thanks for understanding and getting the **** out before dp goes crazy and make your butt hurt even more, kinda like what's going to happen after our mm.

Anyways on a serious note I hope everyone comes over Friday or me picking my apartment up was a waste of time. If you need information check the front page it will give you my address and phone number.

 

[Arikado]

I'll be there around 8 or so. Want me to bring a setup?

Gonna pee in that butt, son!

 

[Sudai]

Dphat obviously doesn't know what it takes to make Subai's but hurt. His but has built up qquuiittee the tolerance. : )

 

[Foursaken]

I got a question for you.

How fat?

Ice!

10ices.

But on a serious note.

The constant bickering going on between you guys is really unnecessary. Even for PM's. Seriously, what does arguing over a game, and persons play style prove at the end of the day? Nothing. Your still going to play the way you want to, despite what anyone says. However, I do agree that while " honor codes " in Brawl, and by that I mean what's considered cheap, do preserve the games " fun " aspect, competitive nature dictates otherwise. People who play to win will use the most effective, broken, or annoying strategy they can, all for the sake of winning. After all, who couldn't use a couple of bucks? I am NOT saying, however, that this should be the basis of all play and why you should attend tournaments. You should attend tournaments to primarily, have fun, test your skill, and maybe, just maybe, leave a few dollars richer. But that's just my two cents. After all, I'm just a high school senior playing video games on the weekends with friends. I haven't been around since the beginning, nor have I written extensive essays about the underlying mechanics of Brawl. But really, does that mean my post should be taken any less seriously? No.

I guess this was just a rant, but I hate seeing fighting going on in the Dallas community. I personally do not have a problem with any of you, heck, I've learned a lot of things from playing, and just hanging out with all you guys. I've shared many a memorial experiences and wish for that to continue.

Let's not mess up a good thing, eh?

I love you all, no homo, and sincerely...

Anthony " Fourskin " Foursaken.

 

[N.O.T.A.-SrsC@]

People and their attitudes are lame.

I might be offended, but I agree that 'tudes are lame.

I wasn't trying to offend anyone but you seem offended so I'm going to give you some advice about 'tudes on the battlefield.

I agree with your advice, totally, but I'm making a pointless aguement.

Argue in PMs. [/drama]

I gotta argue but you need to PM me for us to argue in PMs.[No, I /drama]

I don't want to argue, I just want you to STFU in the thread. Take it to PMs. Quit being a *****.[Srsly, I /drama]

My arguement's not pointless!! You take it to PMs first! I'm trying to salvage my internet maturity.

You didn't lose all respect for me, did you?[Can I pleeeeeaase /drama?]

Instant objective paraphrazation for those not willing to read walls. inb4 [drama]

 

[DallasPhat]

Kado I don't think you need to bring a setup.

 

[Foursaken]

Kado I don't think you need to bring a setup.

Question. About how far into the right building complex is your new pad?

 

[kirbykid]

You could have left it at "No, this was not aimed at you." and things would have been fine, but now I have to go through and point out all the flaws in your logic. Yay.

Alright, here we go. Flaws in my logic? We'll see if you've been reading closely enough. Keep in mind, you shouldn't react to anything that's not explicit in the text/post. Reread it if you have to, but this time, imagine that I'm on your side and not starting a war from enemy lines.

Seriously? I only do gay **** during tournies or money matches. Friendlies are where you play as friends. Competitive matches are just that, competitive. Why do we play competitively? Some people play competitively for fame, some people play competitively for money, some people play competitively because they enjoy that kind of play style. I personally fall into all three categories. From what I can understand, you don't belong in the competitive environment. No offense to you, and I'm not trying to say anything about personal skill in the game (because I really don't know how well you play, I only know how you did against me and you can't judge skill based on fighting one person), but if you're not willing to do what it takes to win, you should A) stay away from tournaments or B) don't complain when people that -are- willing to do what it takes to win do it.

Regardless, "do whatever it takes to win" is one of those phrases that gets toss around from people who don't have everything in perspective. Everyone has limits and lines they're unwilling to cross. But now we're getting of topic. Talking about why people play to win is beside the discussion/my point(s).

For now you can consider my position to be, trying one's hardest is great. But when it goes too far, what does it cost us as individuals and as a whole.

You realize that the Freeze Glitch was banned in Melee, right? You also realize touching the opponent's controller is considered against the rules, right? There's one thing that is "functionally like snatching the opponent's controller out of the system" and that's the infinite grabs, which if I am correct, are restricted in Texas (good call IMO). Anything else you can work around. Would you mind pointing out strategies that do this, though? I'd gladly show you why the tactics aren't broken.

I'm glad you got some of my point. Yes, the glitch was banned for the reasons I discussed. But I said that to say this, the reasons we hard ban, soft ban, and frown upon certain tactics and characters is because of what they destroy at the same time. Try not to look at the situation in extreme where it's either obviously broken or it's fair game. One, recognizing if something is broken or not requires a deep knowledge of the game and of game design (two things that are very hard to come by). Two, every mechanic/element in the game has some kind of effect on the gaming experience. Some features encourage playing. Some encourage fun. While others bend the balance of the game, which inevitably destroys some elements.

As for those strategies, I said broken or nearly so. This means there's a range and gradation to it. I didn't say there was no possible way around it. But such strategies are really pushing it. Like you're entire play style from the matched we played.

You back up and fire lasers/tops until you reach the end of the stage. Then when you're approached you hop on the edge for invincibility. So if you're pressured you're invincible. If the opponent backs off, you continue to shoot them by hopping up from the ledge and falling back. If they take your edge, you either fly under the stage or use Brawl's over powered defensive moves (like the air dodge) and repeat the process moving to the other side.

With the current rule set favoring camping and damage leads and the way you play ROB you practically stalled the game to a fault. I get the feeling, the only reason you let up from that strategy is because you know how unbalanced it is and you let your conscience get to you. Or maybe you were bored? But all the while, you still had that strategy in the back of your mind if you needed to use it.

You're comment/excuse that Kirby can out camp ROB isn't going to work here. I don't intend to play Super Camp Brothers where the primary function is stalling and dragging out time. The point of all of this isn't that you're not playing to win or that you're not playing seriously. The point is, there isn't much interplay or sportsmanship in your style at least when matched up against Kirby. Kirby isn't fast enough on the ground or in the air to effectively chase down a retreating ROB. Even with air dodges and perfect shielding, Kirby still has to out prioritize ROB's moves. Even when that happens, ROBS weight, and excellent recovery allow you to drag everything out.

Don't pretend like playing this way is your only option. The community has the power and responsibility of shaping how we play. This is why we banned freeze glitches and soon (possibly) MetaKnight. MK is broken in that he doesn't play by the same rules most of the other characters in Brawl do. And when you play competitively or to win at all costs, MK takes a lot of the elements/momentum/and flow right out of the game. Though your ROB style isn't as extreme, like I said, it's closer than you might think.

Don't make assumptions. Although I never traveled for Melee or 64, I was around for a long while as well. I was around during the construction of the Louisiana Smash Scene and the majority of the people here knew that the scene is what it is. Tournies are for winning, friendlies are for goofing around. Also, you helped make the scene what it is? I'm still helping the scene grow. I'm still helping people get better at the game in my area. I'm playing my hardest and helping advance the metagame. Your little "honor codes" that you restrain yourself with actually help to hold the metagame back. Thank you, thank you for wanting Smash to stagnate. I really appreciate it. : )

I didn't make any assumptions. I never said you weren't a part of the development of smash community. You're still helping the scene you say? Good. I don't doubt that. But you're still "green around the gills." This isn't even about advancing the metagame. In fact, the ideals you seem to swear by are what's killing the metagame. According to the trend that you represent, you're in favor of keeping in broken characters like MK and run away strategies like your ROB. Notice I referred to a trend and not what you've actually said. You see, I'm not assuming, but recognizing patterns and trends.

Again, you make assumptions about people that you don't really know. Ever been to the ROB boards? I didn't really post much back in the Melee Era, but I'm a huge part of the ROB boards atm.

No assumptions on my part.

Again, this is what friendlies are for. FRIENDLIES ARE FOR PLAYING AS FRIENDS! TOURNAMENTS ARE FOR PLAYING YOUR HARDEST TO WIN.

You've never played your hardest to win as a friend? If that's the case, then you really are a young smasher.

Also, I don't play expecting to win. That's just being big headed. I do expect to try my hardest and do whatever it takes to win when money's on the line. If you don't find that fun, don't put money up. That's all there is to it.

Good for you. But all of this is beside the point I originally made.

Lastly, KK, I don't dislike you, but I will defend the competitive side so long as you keep bringing up why you think competitiveness is bad. I'm not going to push the issue unless you really want to go on though. I'm perfectly fine agreeing to disagree, but please don't ***** or whine when you lose to people that are willing to go the distance.

I never said being competitive is bad. Remember the whole reading comprehension thing?

What makes you think you need to fight so hard against someone who is working for you and not against you.

Your competitive spirit is fierce. I'm just trying to say that this distance you're going on.... there's a better way to go there without making compromises about/for anything/anyone.

If you reread my other post carefully I basically said this...
-I don't blame you.
-Try looking at things differently.
-Try to recognize the spirit of the game and sportsmanship
-Continue to play the way you do if you like.
-Try to understand that there's a better way to go. A better attitude to have.

 

[Big Bob]

Captain Falcon MMs who wants some

 

[Daimonster]

I'll take KirbyKid over Obama anyday!

On a more brawl related note, not having a counter strategy is different than there not being a counter strategy.

Sudai: Series of bad R.O.B maps: Port Town, Mario Circuit, Corneria, Onett, Yoshis Island (pipes), GreenHillZone.
Series of options against R.O.B on the ledge: b.air (for lazers and gyro usage), shield into u.tilt (for f.air off ledge approaches). Just to name a few. Some characters have stronger tilts and better shields. Complaining about a player who wants himself to have limited options is just silly.
However, playing that way will not get you to the top 5 at big tournaments.

 

[DMG]

Captain Falcon MMs who wants some

I do, will you be at Lee's doubles tourney?

Also, Dphat I know the tourney is still a week or so away, but do you wanna go over the travel plans sometime today? Just PM me or get me on AIM.

Keep me updated on who wins with MK gone guys, I'm interested to say the least.

 

[N.O.T.A.-SrsC@]

Someone call ∞, I'm renaming both Sudai and KK WALL-E. Srsly.

 

[Fogo]

Amazing post.

I love you kirbykid, you just made my day!

Elegant posting, bravo.

Angry techno remix.

True, there are ways around these things, and players who are good will find them without being gay.

 

[Daimonster]

I'm renaming both Sudai and KK WALL-E. Srsly.

You shouldn't. Have you ever read a book before? It's called taking time to read someone else's thoughts and ideas. I think they both shared their own thoughts and ideas just fine.

How else would you go about discussing a matter?

 

[UTDZac]

@Sudai: It's a shame you can't just camp the ledge during a tournament match, otherwise it would be really difficult to beat you =)

@KirbyKid: Your knowledge of smash has always amazed me. I remember back in Melee days when people thought I knew everything about smash (which i knew a craploads). But I was put to shame when you would randomly show up and outsmart me =)

@DP: wtf? =)

@DMG: Wanna team for that doubles tourney? I would like to try playing with a different teammate (no offense infi~, but you won't be there). =)

@EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9FtLQJoGM

 

[DMG]

Sorry Zac, I'm teaming up with a fellow Wario main, he called dibs before Lee's tourney was even announced lol. Maybe for HOBO 12?

Also, tell Damien about our DK vs Wario match where I was bein gay and CGing you with Dthrow. He didn't think I knew about some of the dthrow CG's until somebody else posted them on the Wario boards recently.

 

[kirbykid]

@KirbyKid: Your knowledge of smash has always amazed me. I remember back in Melee days when people thought I knew everything about smash (which i knew a craploads). But I was put to shame when you would randomly show up and outsmart me =)

Thanks man.

I wrote a 4 part series on my blog on why smash is the most next-gen fighter around.

I guess I should have posted it somewhere on smashboards. But it's not like it's going to go away any time soon.

Check it out.

 

[DallasPhat]

Alright for those that arrive at the apartment complex give me a call so I can give you exact directions.

 

[Infinitysmash]

<dodges wall of text>

WOOHOO, I'M ALIVE!

See you guys tomorrow. Nate, if you're coming then find a way to call me or whatever.

DURHUR I HAD MY PHONE ON SILENT ALL DAY!

 

[Sudai]

KK, I know us talking is just gonna degrade into a debate on the topic (not because of you, but because of the way I am), and because of that I'm going to refrain from talking about this in the Dallas thread. If you would like to pursue the conversation further, feel free to PM me (even if you just copypasta that last post in there), but as it stands, I don't intend to respond atm because I don't feel like debating atm.

I'm down for Captain Falcon Ditto Cinnamon matches. Who's there? I'll bring the cinnamon. : )

I'll do those at Lee Harris' place if I do go there.

 

[*_Echo_*]

I do, will you be at Lee's doubles tourney?

Also, Dphat I know the tourney is still a week or so away, but do you wanna go over the travel plans sometime today? Just PM me or get me on AIM.

Keep me updated on who wins with MK gone guys, I'm interested to say the least.

Fogo >_> lol or d4ba i call them for grand finals

 

[Infinitysmash]

Eric, Billy, Zac: I'm bringing my laptop tomorrow.

 

[kirbykid]

********SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT********

I would like to have at least 10 set ups for PBT#1.

This means if you're on the fence about brining a TV and Wii with a Brawl copy, you really need to try and do it. Put the stuff in your trunk, throw in some pillows, and make it happen.

For everyone who brings a complete set up, you will receive a free lunch at the Bistro.

If you have a near complete set up, bring it as well and I'll see what kinds of deals I can make for you.

Fogo. If you can update the first post with this information, that would be great. That is all.

 

[mydadsacop123]

dang what is kirbykid doin on smashboards he should be on nasaboards. Genius. Also excited to see hoo meta users play!

 

[chronoize]

********SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT********

I would like to have at least 10 set ups for PBT#1.

This means if you're on the fence about brining a TV and Wii with a Brawl copy, you really need to try and do it. Put the stuff in your trunk, throw in some pillows, and make it happen.

For everyone who brings a complete set up, you will receive a free lunch at the Bistro.

If you have a near complete set up, bring it as well and I'll see what kinds of deals I can make for you.

Fogo. If you can update the first post with this information, that would be great. That is all.

wow you sure do know how to speak to smashers. bribing with food to get setups is a smart move. if my tv fits in my trunk ill bring it. *32 in'er flat screen XD*

 

[Bwett]

Wow, tremendous walls of text

After all, I'm just a high school senior playing video games on the weekends with friends.

I thought you were 12 or something! lol

<3 everyone

 

[mydadsacop123]

wwwwwwaitaminute... You don't want setups dphat? I gots a tv