Deviant - A 2D Fighting Game by Grim Tuesday *Added Gabriel + New Tech!*

[Dragoon Fighter]

Thank you Neon Ness.

 

[Neon Ness]

Okaaay, this is what I got so far. Didn't take as long as I thought it would.

Karakasa sprite (1st draft?):

I thought she was supposed to be a child though? It says in the OP she was 7 when she died.

I can tell Gabriel's going to be really difficult by looking at him lol.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Okaaay, this is what I got so far. Didn't take as long as I thought it would.

Karakasa sprite (1st draft?):

I thought she was supposed to be a child though? It says in the OP she was 7 when she died.

I can tell Gabriel's going to be really difficult by looking at him lol.

That. is. AMAZING. :D

Gabriel revived her in that form, a 7 year old girl wouldn't be much use to him.

If you don't want to do Gabriel yet, we could just work on getting all of Karakasa's sprites done.

I'll PM you the details for the standing sprite.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I have not seen this thread move in a while is everything ok? Is the game still being developed? (Please, let it be yes on both accounts.)

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I cant wait!

 

[Octave]

HYPE BUMP

This looks like it's got incredible potential. I hope it succeeds! Keep up the good work, guys!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I have not seen this thread move in a while is everything ok? Is the game still being developed? (Please, let it be yes on both accounts.)

I cant wait!

HYPE BUMP

This looks like it's got incredible potential. I hope it succeeds! Keep up the good work, guys!

I'm sorry for not updating guys. I was really tied down with homework, but I've downloaded Game Maker on to the school computers so I can work on it at lunch, should really speed the process along.

I haven't heard anything about the sprites since the Karakasa one, so I don't know if Neon Ness is still involved or what...

I should have a tech demo ready to take to Robocop in Melbourne (will just be a 1v1 thing with crappy graphics, but it will show off the depth of the actual fighting engine very well, which is the main point of a tech demo). So if you are going there, try and find me.

There will be a character update soon... I'm sure Marth fans will be happy...

Spoiler

lolspoilers. I wonder who it could be!?

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I'm highly interested in full image art of your characters.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm highly interested in full image art of your characters.

Patience Mr. Smithh, patience :D

I don't really want to post the concept art because it is just that, a concept, I don't want people to get the wrong idea.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

It's hard to be patience when I'm saying some pretty nice art, and from the looks unique characters! You do have a very good point, though. I'm subscribing to this thread.
I think you'll do well with this.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's hard to be patience when I'm saying some pretty nice art, and from the looks unique characters! You do have a very good point, though. I'm subscribing to this thread.
I think you'll do well with this.

Thanks for the support!

 

[Octave]

Are you going to record the tech vid so those of us who can't be there will be able to see it?

 

[Neon Ness]

I haven't heard anything about the sprites since the Karakasa one, so I don't know if Neon Ness is still involved or what...

Yeah, around the time I was going to start her idle/walking sprites, 2 of my uncles requested me to design logos for them, so I got tied up at an inconvenient time. :l Sorry, shoulda mentioned it way sooner, slipped my mind.

But, I'll do my best to continue progress on 'em.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Are you going to record the tech vid so those of us who can't be there will be able to see it?

Better, I'll put the download link up here

Yeah, around the time I was going to start her idle/walking sprites, 2 of my uncles requested me to design logos for them, so I got tied up at an inconvenient time. :l Sorry, shoulda mentioned it way sooner, slipped my mind.

But, I'll do my best to continue progress on 'em.

Don't worry about it Ness, I'm just glad you are still on board!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

*Sigh*
Sorry again for the lack of updates on anything.

I lost my USB and it had heaps of code on it, so I've lost a lot of progress. Don't worry though, not as bad as it sounds, the code is very repetitive and it'll only take me a couple of weeks to get it all done again.

Neon Ness has disappeared again. I'd hate to bump him off after his lovely work on the Karakasa sprite, but I need someone committed...

I'm thinking of writing up the character descriptions for Revenant, Konosuke, Zealot and Loki soon.

Also, I've replaced Noth with a new character, Athel. Noth's playstyle just didn't seem that good to me and because his sprite was actually based around it, he had to go.

I've also removed Arbiter. He was going to be sort of like Charade from Soul Calibur 2, copying the movesets of other fighters. But then I thought
a) It's just a stupid novelty no one would use.
b) Lots of extra effort.
c) Arkantos does something similar but MUCH better.

 

[GwJ]

Good ****, still looking forward to this.

 

[Signia]

Very interesting. I was very surprised to see this hasn't been pitched on Sirlin.net though. The posters on that forum have been discussing game design with a slight focus on 2d fighting games for years now, so I think that would be the best place to get useful criticism. I'll offer my own input after I read all your game mechanics and their implications.

After a quick skim, here are my comments:

-why make crouch cancel dash and its reverse those inputs instead of standard QCF or QCB? Players of the genre will be more accustomed to these more common motions Edit: disregard this, didn't notice that other movements have these inputs already

-why DECREASE the options of the player that is approaching with a run? You do not want to make it safer to defend than to attack. You should reward players for going on the attack otherwise the best strategy will be to run away.

To use Soul Calibur (IV, idk about the others) as an example, getting hit while walking backwards or sideways always causes a counter hit causing more damage or special counter hit effects for those who don't know. Running or stepping forward however, only draws a normal hit presumably for the reason that it's already risky moving closer to your opponent's attack range, decreasing the options on the attack would simply make attacking too dangerous (and it practically still is in that game!)

Though, I haven't read through the other movement options to see if you can cancel your movement to get your options back, or even if the running options are better than the walking ones. Just make sure attacking is a good strategy, otherwise knowledgeable players will have no reason to do so. I would make attacking as strong as possible while allowing the defending player to escape pressure if they know exactly what the attacker's next move will be.

-Coupled with regenerating stamina, making attacking dangerous will make defensive strategies even stronger. The "strong last hit" mechanic would make it ridiculously hard to finish off the opponent if the combo-starters or strong hits required are risky (as they probably should be). Think about the timer as well: I imagine many draws and runaway tactics as a result of leads simply equalizing with time regenerating. I suggest using the standard health bar. Also, how would a character archetyped around small pokes win?

I look forward to your marth-like character design

oh and just a nitpick, but please change your "gameplay" heading to "game mechanics," it's more accurate. "Gameplay" is meaningless


Edit:
-Analog inputs cause all but the most expensive arcade sticks to be unusable. keyboard would also be a handicap

-Training mode sounds great

-guard strengths sounds complicated if it's on top of having high and low guard but it could be interesting.

-guard meter limiting how much you can guard will somewhat weaken defensive play but there are so many other defensive options. I myself am not a fan of the dodge or dodge roll unless they are very risky or else they feel like a get-out-of-jail free card. It might be just me, but the near-instant invincibility is mechanically unpleasing and the feeling of transparency of the fighters when they enter that state is aesthetically unpleasing to me. That might be ok for some characters though

I'd like to hear more about what makes a strong a offense in this game.

-are throws breakable? how fast are they? That is to say, are they Soul Calibur style (super slow, rock-paper-scissors break), Guilty Gear/Super Turbo style(0-frame throws that can be used defensively), Blazblue style(total garbage slow and breakable), Smash style(slow but unbreakable), or Tekken style(slow, throw break input based on the animation of the throw). VF5 style (multi-throw escape, sometimes 0-frame)?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'll take all of this into account, and give you a detailed response later. I'm kinda busy at the moment, sorry.

 

[Pierce7d]

"-Players have varied speeds of lateral movement, from a slow walk to a run. While players are walking they are free to use any of their normal attacks at the cost of the speed running provides, but running forces characters to instead use running attacks, limiting the options for approaching."

I disapprove. This is one of the main problems Brawl has in terms of defense. Limiting approaches this way makes it much harder to allow significant offense.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

"-Players have varied speeds of lateral movement, from a slow walk to a run. While players are walking they are free to use any of their normal attacks at the cost of the speed running provides, but running forces characters to instead use running attacks, limiting the options for approaching."

I disapprove. This is one of the main problems Brawl has in terms of defense. Limiting approaches this way makes it much harder to allow significant offense.

Signia said the same thing. This will definitely be fixed, fear not.

 

[Neon Ness]

Neon Ness has disappeared again. I'd hate to bump him off after his lovely work on the Karakasa sprite, but I need someone committed...

;-; I'm really sorry. I'd completely understand if you wanted to bump me off of this project for someone who works faster lol.

I'm halfway done with her idle sprite, but it doesn't look... professional yet so I was doing more work on it. But yeah, maybe someone wants to step in as a better replacement after I finish that one.

Glad this is making some progress elsewhere though!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

;-; I'm really sorry. I'd completely understand if you wanted to bump me off of this project for someone who works faster lol.

I'm halfway done with her idle sprite, but it doesn't look... professional yet so I was doing more work on it. But yeah, maybe someone wants to step in as a better replacement after I finish that one.

Glad this is making some progress elsewhere though!

I'll keep you on-board.
But you gotta upload what you've done so far to photobucket or something so I can see, you don't need to be a perfectionist about it, I'm sure they look awesome

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Very interesting. I was very surprised to see this hasn't been pitched on Sirlin.net though. The posters on that forum have been discussing game design with a slight focus on 2d fighting games for years now, so I think that would be the best place to get useful criticism. I'll offer my own input after I read all your game mechanics and their implications.

I'll take a look at Sirlin's forum, I love his articles, thanks!

-why DECREASE the options of the player that is approaching with a run? You do not want to make it safer to defend than to attack. You should reward players for going on the attack otherwise the best strategy will be to run away.

Like I said, I'll definitely change this.

To use Soul Calibur (IV, idk about the others) as an example, getting hit while walking backwards or sideways always causes a counter hit causing more damage or special counter hit effects for those who don't know. Running or stepping forward however, only draws a normal hit presumably for the reason that it's already risky moving closer to your opponent's attack range, decreasing the options on the attack would simply make attacking too dangerous (and it practically still is in that game!)

Oh, snap. I actually forgot to write about a system I had similar to that. I had it so being hit while you were retreating would cause greater hit-stun and knockback (gives some attacks knock-down as well), while moving forward would be sort of like CCing in Melee. I'll write this in the OP.

Though, I haven't read through the other movement options to see if you can cancel your movement to get your options back, or even if the running options are better than the walking ones. Just make sure attacking is a good strategy, otherwise knowledgeable players will have no reason to do so. I would make attacking as strong as possible while allowing the defending player to escape pressure if they know exactly what the attacker's next move will be.

I will keep this in mind. Running can be cancelled into a jump or a crouch. You can also turn your dash around (which allows for light dash-dancing like in Smash).

-Coupled with regenerating stamina, making attacking dangerous will make defensive strategies even stronger. The "strong last hit" mechanic would make it ridiculously hard to finish off the opponent if the combo-starters or strong hits required are risky (as they probably should be). Think about the timer as well: I imagine many draws and runaway tactics as a result of leads simply equalizing with time regenerating. I suggest using the standard health bar. Also, how would a character archetyped around small pokes win?

Ok, firstly, I've definitely thought about this, and I'll make sure it is balanced enough. With the "running-away" tactic, I may incorporate some kind of a penalty for this if it becomes an issue (Like, no stamina increase if you are too far away from the opponent or something). Karakasa isn't just based around pokes, if you have seen how Taokaka plays in Blaz Blue, imagine that kind of playstyle.

I look forward to your marth-like character design

Haha, spoiler: Her specials allow her to change the angle she holds her sword at. Allowing for fluid, controllable, sword-play.

oh and just a nitpick, but please change your "gameplay" heading to "game mechanics," it's more accurate. "Gameplay" is meaningless

Alrighty.

Edit:
-Analog inputs cause all but the most expensive arcade sticks to be unusable. keyboard would also be a handicap

Keyboard will always be handicapped no matter what. But I can still do QCF and QCB when I am playing Blaz Blue with keyboard, so I don't think it is impossibly difficult. I didn't even have arcade sticks in mind when designing the controls, I was thinking of controllers (not really an arcade gamer, I play Soul Calibur, Blaz Blue and Smash with controllers). I'll have to think of something for stick users.

-Training mode sounds great

Good.

-guard strengths sounds complicated if it's on top of having high and low guard but it could be interesting.

It's just like how you can adjust the size of the shield in Melee, but more useful.

-guard meter limiting how much you can guard will somewhat weaken defensive play but there are so many other defensive options. I myself am not a fan of the dodge or dodge roll unless they are very risky or else they feel like a get-out-of-jail free card. It might be just me, but the near-instant invincibility is mechanically unpleasing and the feeling of transparency of the fighters when they enter that state is aesthetically unpleasing to me. That might be ok for some characters though

Compare rolls to how they are in Melee. Can be used at times, but are easily punishable if they are predicted, if the opponent is close and has fast attacks, etc... Dodging was pretty much for the RPS-mechanic of Grab > Attack > Dodge > Grab

I'd like to hear more about what makes a strong a offense in this game.

Hmm... Well. You have multiple methods of approaching: Walking, Dashing, Air Dashing, Crouch-Cancelled Dash, Jump-Cancelled Dash, Crawling. Not to mention you can do a most of those actions while facing away from the opponent, and then use a backward-facing attack, or turning around to use a forward-facing attack.

Once you have approached the opponent: At high stamina, you can normally follow-up with a few moves, try for a cross-up or retreat and approach again. At mid-low stamina though, combos can be pulled off, and the game will have quite a large amount of hit-stun, making large combos possible.

-are throws breakable? how fast are they? That is to say, are they Soul Calibur style (super slow, rock-paper-scissors break), Guilty Gear/Super Turbo style(0-frame throws that can be used defensively), Blazblue style(total garbage slow and breakable), Smash style(slow but unbreakable), or Tekken style(slow, throw break input based on the animation of the throw). VF5 style (multi-throw escape, sometimes 0-frame)?

Because of the dodge mechanic, the throws will be unbreakable. They will be at a moderate speed, akin to Smash.

Told you I'd respond in detail

 

[Signia]

thanks, those were exactly the kind of answers I was looking for. Everything sounds pretty good, except it seems like "dodge" would beat attacks and throws if timed perfectly, at least if they work they way they do in smash. Sounds like the RPS going on here is Delayed Attack/Grab > Dodge > Attack/Grab > Delayed Attack/Grab. But I'm not sure how your system works, how do grabs beat attacks and attacks beat dodge?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

thanks, those were exactly the kind of answers I was looking for. Everything sounds pretty good, except it seems like "dodge" would beat attacks and throws if timed perfectly, at least if they work they way they do in smash. Sounds like the RPS going on here is Delayed Attack/Grab > Dodge > Attack/Grab > Delayed Attack/Grab. But I'm not sure how your system works, how do grabs beat attacks and attacks beat dodge?

Dodge requires pretty precise timing, the grab boxes are out for a much shorter duration than most hit-boxes. It *could* be used to block some very fast attacks or certain parts of an attack, but it is much better suited to grabs.

Grabs beat attacks in the sense that grabs have more priority than attacks.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Wow, Glad to see that you are still working on this game Grim I wish you the best of luck (This game looks more epic per update.)

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Wow, Glad to see that you are still working on this game Grim I wish you the best of luck (This game looks more epic per update.)

:D
Boring coding at the moment, so no updates xD
I have quite a few characters planned out, I just don't know how to explain them in the updates.

 

[Neon Ness]

I'll keep you on-board.
But you gotta upload what you've done so far to photobucket or something so I can see, you don't need to be a perfectionist about it, I'm sure they look awesome

It's so basic it makes me sad to look at it.

I appreciate you letting me stay on board lol. But in all honesty it doesn't look like I'll be able to dedicate as much time to helping as I had hoped. I sorely underestimated my college work, and it also turns it out I'm going to be working on a game of my own pretty soon. I'll help as much as I can but I hope there's another (more competent lol) sprite artist around here somewhere that can help you out if I have to call it quits, I hate to slow you down like this... I'll do my best to continue working on these.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It's so basic it makes me sad to look at it.

I appreciate you letting me stay on board lol. But in all honesty it doesn't look like I'll be able to dedicate as much time to helping as I had hoped. I sorely underestimated my college work, and it also turns it out I'm going to be working on a game of my own pretty soon. I'll help as much as I can but I hope there's another (more competent lol) sprite artist around here somewhere that can help you out if I have to call it quits, I hate to slow you down like this... I'll do my best to continue working on these.

I like it
Keep in mind, the important thing right now is just getting sprites to sugar-coat the gameplay, we can focus on getting them to look nice after the release of a beta version or whatever.

If you do have to quit, don't feel bad, I'll hopefully find someone else to continue your impressive work. Your real life appointments will always have priority over this project.

 

[Luxor]

I want more. I'd drop some money for this when it's done.

Keep up the good work. I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said.

 

[Signia]

I highly recommend reading this thread for insight

http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?t=3208&page=27

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I want more. I'd drop some money for this when it's done.

Keep up the good work. I don't really have anything to say that hasn't been said.

Thanks! :D

I highly recommend reading this thread for insight

http://forums.sirlin.net/showthread.php?t=3208&page=27

Thanks, just read it. I'll take note!

I found the one about adding in a "wild card" special pretty interesting especially.

 

[The King Of Hearts]

That was a long read but ill gladly try it out once theirs a copy

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

It's UPDATED OMG! Thanks Grimtuesday!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Lawl.

I've been inactive because of school and holidays, I can guarantee I've been hard at work in my spare time though.

 

[Pikaville]

Wow this seems pretty cool, I'll definitely give this a go once it comes out.

The mechanics seems very interesting just from reading.

 

[CloneHat]

Hey look, religion is evil. Again.

Cool project idea though

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Hey look, religion is evil. Again.

Cool project idea though

Problem, CloneHat?

It's a fighting game, who cares about the story

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

Just here to ask about progress?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I've finished Revenant and I've almost finished Karakasa.

The problem is finding spriters... >_>