Despite being irrelevant, why doesn't Gen 3 and Gen 5 of Pokemon not have reps in Smash yet?

[RetrogamerMax]

It's mind boggling to me sometimes that Gen 3 at least doesn't have a rep yet since so many popular Pokemon requests during the Brawl and early Smash 4 peroids were center around that generation.

 

[OnyanRings]

Poor timing, Pokemon reps are mainly here to promote the latest pokemon game and Gen 3 was too early for melee but too late for Brawl, same with Gen 5 for sm4sh.

tfw you'll never get Gardevoir as a playable character.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Fandom apathy.

See also: Moving on to gen 8 when Incineroar had plenty of opposition and Chrom fans got their preferred Awakening rep.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Poor timing, Pokemon reps are mainly here to promote the latest pokemon game and Gen 3 was too early for melee but too late for Brawl, same with Gen 5 for sm4sh.

tfw you'll never get Gardevoir as a playable character.
View attachment 270114

It makes sense, but still I wish we got a Gen 3 rep. I honestly prefer Deoxys over Gardevoir.

 

[Perkilator]

Makes me wish Snivy was the Pokémon in Smash 4’s base roster and was DLC instead of .

 

[pupNapoleon]

Because Pokemon are only born in a generation- they are not confined to it.
Each generation is a region, not the singular place where Pokemon live.

For example- the gen 1 starters are available as main Pokemon in majority of the generations. 1,2,3,4,6.

 

[fogbadge]

Poor timing, Pokemon reps are mainly here to promote the latest pokemon game and Gen 3 was too early for melee but too late for Brawl, same with Gen 5 for sm4sh.

tfw you'll never get Gardevoir as a playable character.
View attachment 270114

they put it best

 

[toonito]

timing

pokemon reps in smash so far have always coincided with the newest pokemon gen available

RB 96 (64, 1999)

GS 99 (Melee, 2001)

DP 06 (Brawl, 2008)

XY 13 (SSB4, 2014)

SM 16 (SSBU, 2018)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Poor timing alone. Apparently Gen 3 was going to get it if Pra_Mai was actually Plusle & Minun(likely built off of Pichu, like Young Link was reused to help create Toon Link).

Gen 5 is the odder one. It wasn't actually that close either. It had some good stuff at least for other cameos, etc. It's not badly represented by any means. Just not a character. Even got a stage too. Gen 3 in a sense got a bit less. It got some good Pokemon, as well as remixes(and technically Pokemon Trainer, as he's based upon his Gen 3 redesign, but that's a stretch to say he actually represents Gen 3. He represents Gen 1 and only by being a generic Trainer in general does he really represent all Gens. However his Pokemon are pretty much based around Gen 1, with moves up to Gen 3. That or just Gen 2 moves. I'd have to really look into it, and respectively some anime references too).

It sucks too. Those would've had many great options as is. Every single Generation is full of great characters. And we got great ones as is within Smash already.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I think the reason's obvious. The Pokemon Company requires a Pokemon that shills their newest game. Since Smash games' development cycle is a pretty good match with that of Pokemon mainline games, there will always be a new game to promote. Considering how Sakurai has to save a spot for a Pokemon and only gets to pick from the starters, there's likely some corporate mandate that'll ensure that stays the same.

It's tragic, but it is what it is. Honestly I don't think TPC is helping their brand by being so draconian, but they're still doing it, so...

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think the reason's obvious. The Pokemon Company requires a Pokemon that shills their newest game. Since Smash games' development cycle is a pretty good match with that of Pokemon mainline games, there will always be a new game to promote. Considering how Sakurai has to save a spot for a Pokemon and only gets to pick from the starters, there's likely some corporate mandate that'll ensure that stays the same.

It's tragic, but it is what it is. Honestly I don't think TPC is helping their brand by being so draconian, but they're still doing it, so...

Yeah, one particularly blatant case is that they allowed the Gen 1 starters to get in Brawl in favor of Plusle and Minun being nixed, because Fire Red and Leaf Green were more recent (granted, there may not have been enough time left to finish the pair, but still).

The kicker is that people continue refusing to believe that the Gen 8 spirit event is all that game will get for Smash DLC this time, since it's rumored that TPC had the hardest time even allowing major entries to get DLC to begin with. Yet there's no problem for them to believe that Astral Chain and Ring Fit won't get anyone playable after their spirit events launched.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, one particularly blatant case is that they allowed the Gen 1 starters to get in Brawl in favor of Plusle and Minun being nixed, because Fire Red and Leaf Green were more recent (granted, there may have enough been time left to finish the pair, but still).

The kicker is that people continue refusing to believe that the Gen 8 spirit event is all that game will get for Smash DLC this time, since it's rumored that TPC had the hardest time even allowing major entries to get DLC to begin with. Yet there's no problem for them to believe that Astral Chain and Ring Fit won't get anyone playable after their spirit events launched.

...It probably has something to do with eliminating all the reasonable Astral Chain and Ring Fit possibilities in one blow as Spirits. There's multiple viable Gen 8 Pokemon who aren't spirits. So it's a different situation. Not saying this means Gen 8 will get a character, but they at least still have options. It's probably dead, imo.

Also, it's not simply "Gen 1 Starters". It's the Trainer part that's important. That the core character, with the rest being more like the playable portions. All 3 are fully tied to PT. You could separate any one of them uniquely(Charizard in 4), but it's about the team effort. Them being the starters was more a case of "the best option to choose for the team effort". It's like if you have the first character of a franchise; do you choose Mario or Bowser? Same kind of deal here. They're super iconic as is. Albeit, there's no denying Squirtle and Ivysaur are not on Charizard's level either.

Plusle & Minun were far smaller mascots for the Doubles types of battles. This isn't on the same level regardless. Being mascots don't help alone. He also clearly didn't have enough time to finish them, as they had no actual data beyond a name(we don't even know for sure if it's the Pokemon duo. I mean, it's a really logical guess regardless and fits the idea of replacing Pichu with what are basically model swaps, sure).

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I think it was definitely bad luck and poor timing. Which is a shame because gens 3 and 5 were probably my favourites.

I think the best chance 5th gen had of getting a rep was probably in Zoroark, but it didn't prove nearly as massively popular as Lucario so there wasn't a push for it.

 

[RileyXY1]

Just bad timing. I don't think we'll ever get any more Pokemon newcomers aside from new gen shillpicks.

 

[PhantomShab]

Pokemon only gets newcomers to shill whatever the newest game is. They get a guaranteed slot set aside just for this purpose even. The 3rd and 5th gen games just weren't the latest Pokemon games to advertise is all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai isn't even trying to advertise the latest games. That's a misnomer. The idea that "shill picks exist" is a misconception. What it's more realistically doing is that Pokemon is a massive franchise and he can only easily get a new Pokemon as is, and the latest generation is because he goes after "what's currently hot" as well. He knows Pokemon sells like hotcakes. That makes it even easier to make Smash popular, by appealing to the Pokemon crowd.

Having an advertising effect doesn't mean they're chosen for the sake of advertising the Pokemon games. They literally came to Smash way too late to advertise the current games. There was nothing that needed promoting whatsoever. They were already selling by that point. Even a Gen 8 Pokemon wouldn't matter at this point, since it's been out for ages. It's not a promotional timing like Byleth, Corrin, or Roy were. And Byleth wasn't really used to outright advertise 3H, either. Those were added (kind of in Byleth's case) specifically due to that factor.

None of the Pokemon really were added in time to outright promote any games. Many were added because they coincide with the development of specific games(Lucario, Greninja, Incineroar). Some were highly popular or mascots(Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and for the other half, Pikachu, Pichu, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard).

Shilling is barely existent in Smash. It's more like a relevancy thing that gets them added when it comes to an upcoming game. If the game has been out for a very long time? It's just relevancy by that point. How does one shill a game a that came out a long time ago? You don't. Cause it ain't shilling anything. Incineroar, for instance? People are more interested in Smash because they already knew of the cat Pokemon from Sun/Moon. Smash released quite a bit later on. Its announcement didn't make people want to buy Sun/Moon much at all. A bit late for that. Same with the Ultra series. They already released. Those who bought it now know he's been added to Smash so have more reason to buy Smash. So if it's shilling, it's being used to shill Smash Bros. towards the Pokemon fans instead. It's a core form of relevancy to begin with, really. Add 'em at a time where other games are out, so people can see a unique new character from a game they bought beforehand, and be more interested in Smash. Hell, how many Pokemon could you say weren't already out in their own games before the particular Smash game released? ...None. Cause that's not how it works.

 

[PhantomShab]

The idea that "shill picks exist" is a misconception.

Keep telling yourself that lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Keep telling yourself that lol.

I'll keep sticking with reality, yes.

Shilling doesn't actually exist. First, it's an immature way to say "advertising just for the sake of advertising", which has never a single example in the history of Smash. There's partial advertising at best. That's not the whole story in any case.

Byleth didn't just get in to help promote a later game(but not to actually sell the game alone, just its DLC in that timing), but because they were able to make a very notable moveset out of.

Incineroar's actually core part of inclusion was because it was interesting. If Decidueye and Incineroar had nothing Sakurai could use, there wouldn't even be a Gen VII rep. He didn't consider anyone else.

Corrin was brought up because it was an easy way to advertise, but however that's implied, not said. It's more like the character is from a new relevant game and could be interesting. Corrin wouldn't have stood a chance if Sakurai's team didn't convince him outright the character could be interesting.

Roy wouldn't even exist if there was no clone slot. Which means he can't just be a shill pick, which would mean he was solely there to advertise. That's not reality.

People can use a bad term all they want, but it will never be anything but bad.

Nonetheless, all these so-called shill picks are there because they're relevant plus always other factors. And I mean always. Did you actually think even Banjo-Kazooie got in just because they were a fan favorite? Hell no. Minecraft played a key role too. Besides that, if Nintendo tried to get a character that weren't active from Microsoft as is, the chances of them saying yes are zip. Relevancy is going to make them work together in this case. They're a competitor. They need to get something out of it. What actually happened is that Nintendo and Microsoft agreed to help use Minecraft as is to keep them together. B&K being an active product made it an easy choice, but that only came up after they agreed to work together via Minecraft on Switch. Nintendo got two major things out of it; the Halo Mash-Up Pack, a Microsoft exclusive, and Banjo-Kazooie in Smash. Microsoft also got advertisement for Rare Replay, and Minecraft spread further.

Things happen for a reason, and shilling is a very bad way to put it.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Okay, but don't you find it coincidental that we rarely get Pokémon from older gens beyond veterans? It doesn't seem like fan demand appears to have any effect for any other older Pokémon at all. Granted, the fact that there's a metric ton of Pokémon to choose from is one thing, yet we still eventually managed to get characters from other series that have been requested for a long time, like Ridley and Banjo & Kazooie, so I don't know what's stopping them.

I don't care if shilling exists or not (even technically advertises their own game readily available on digital services), I just can't seem to shake off the feeling that Pokémon strangely seems to be even more limited to relevant picks than Fire Emblem.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I wish we could get another legendary in the roster instead of a starter. Gen 3 I believe had the most legendaries out of any generation.

 

[PhantomShab]

I'll keep sticking with reality, yes.

Shilling doesn't actually exist.

What is wrong with this fanbase? Like man you just don't see things like this in any other. Why is it like this?

 

[Super10ZX]

I wish we could get another legendary in the roster instead of a starter. Gen 3 I believe had the most legendaries out of any generation.

Gen 7 had the most actually with 11. Mostly thanks to some Legendaries getting pre evolutions (Type: Null, Cosmog, Cosmoem) and the four Tapus.

If you decide not to count those, then the Gen with most legendaries is a tie between 3, 4, and 5 with nine (this isn’t counting event Pokémon).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Okay, but don't you find it coincidental that we rarely get Pokémon from older gens beyond veterans? It doesn't seem like fan demand appears to have any effect for any other older Pokémon at all. Granted, the fact that there's a metric ton of Pokémon to choose from is one thing, yet we still eventually managed to get characters from other series that have been requested for a long time, like Ridley and Banjo & Kazooie, so I don't know what's stopping them.

I don't care if shilling exists or not (even technically advertises their own game readily available on digital services), I just can't seem to shake off the feeling that Pokémon strangely seems to be even more limited to relevant picks than Fire Emblem.

It makes sense. Sakurai goes with "what's hot". He can't decide between over hundreds of characters. FE has a simple lord as is per game, or multiple lords, making it somewhat easy to choose a main character of.

I don't see any coincidences. He doesn't really have a good reason to choose a veteran Pokemon at that point. He's limited as is because there's only so much he can do every game. He's literally choosing less than two or more per game now with too many Pokemon existing. He has to make the options as small as possible to make it work.

Though I can amend one point; yes, it's possible he chose someone else from a previous game if Incineroar and Decidueye were not an option. But unless they were "hot", no reason to. For instance, Gengar played a good role in the upcoming anime as is. As well as having gotten more popularity lately. He could've gone back to Plusle & MInun. However, his plans were also strictly for "Pokemon from USUM" as he said. So it's unlikely.

What is wrong with this fanbase? Like man you just don't see things like this in any other. Why is it like this?

You mean I understand that people don't get how development works? Cause the reality is that's all fanbases. That's the only thing in context here of note. Yes, people don't know how it works. Not a big deal.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Gen 7 had the most actually with 11. Mostly thanks to some Legendaries getting pre evolutions (Type: Null, Cosmog, Cosmoem) and the four Tapus.

If you decide not to count those, then the Gen with most legendaries is a tie between 3, 4, and 5 with nine (this isn’t counting event Pokémon).

Gen 3 had 10 legendaries if I am not mistaken. How many Gen 4 and Gen 5 had exactly?

 

[Super10ZX]

Gen 3 had 10 legendaries if I am not mistaken. How many Gen 4 and Gen 5 had exactly?

Oh wait, I made a mistake. Gen 3 had 8 legendaries, not 9. My apologies on that one. Like I said, I wasn’t counting event Pokémon, so that didn’t include Jirachi and Deoxys. Once you do, the number is 10 like you said.

But then if you do that, you gotta do it for the other regions as well. Which brings Gen 4 to 13, and Gen 5 to 13 as well.

 

[PhantomShab]

What it's more realistically doing is that Pokemon is a massive franchise and he can only easily get a new Pokemon as is, and the latest generation is because he goes after "what's currently hot" as well. He knows Pokemon sells like hotcakes.

Shilling is barely existent in Smash.

Shilling doesn't actually exist.

Can't even stay consistent lol.

Shilling doesn't actually exist. First, it's an immature way to say "advertising just for the sake of advertising", which has never a single example in the history of Smash. There's partial advertising at best. That's not the whole story in any case.

Byleth didn't just get in to help promote a later game(but not to actually sell the game alone, just its DLC in that timing), but because they were able to make a very notable moveset out of.

Incineroar's actually core part of inclusion was because it was interesting. If Decidueye and Incineroar had nothing Sakurai could use, there wouldn't even be a Gen VII rep. He didn't consider anyone else.

Corrin was brought up because it was an easy way to advertise, but however that's implied, not said. It's more like the character is from a new relevant game and could be interesting. Corrin wouldn't have stood a chance if Sakurai's team didn't convince him outright the character could be interesting.

Roy wouldn't even exist if there was no clone slot. Which means he can't just be a shill pick, which would mean he was solely there to advertise. That's not reality.

"Shilling doesn't exist even though yes advertising played a role in these characters getting in."

Like man, can you just stop? lol

 

[fogbadge]

what is the reasoning for something being a "shill" pick beyond the game came out not long ago?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

what is the reasoning for something being a "shill" pick beyond the game came out not long ago?

It's a weak phrase cause people don't know how development legitimately works. It's also an intent to dismiss legitimate business decisions in an immature manner. That's how the term was always used. It doesn't have any neutrality to it and assumes it must be bad no matter what.

It assumes they were chosen just for advertising, which obviously is not the case nor once ever has been. It's more complicated than that. Advertising can be a partial factor, but there's always something more.

We know for a fact that Corrin didn't make it in just cause of an advertisement factor. That was confirmed that the moveset was the final part of the decision. Byleth is a bit different since not only did Nintendo choose them, not Sakurai, but they also weren't used to advertise the base game whatsoever. Just the later DLC. Corrin was intentionally released before the actual Fates game released in the US, so it has straight advertising purposes. Roy was chosen with the intent it'll help sell later copies of the Binding Blade, but it didn't work out that way. Basically it's an accident that he had a greater advertising effect than planned. However, keep in mind if there was no clone spot, he wasn't happening. The other two had advertising as a part of their starting reason. The other thing is Byleth technically is more about advertisement than Corrin as Sakurai had to use the character regardless. He didn't get an opinion about whether to use them or not. All he could do is make them as cool as possible. In a way, Byleth is the only pure advertising pick, so a "shill pick" isn't technically inaccurate. Even if it's a poor term to use.

Pokemon is different as is. Sakurai didn't just choose them all, but he always goes for relevant picks because it's easy to get the developers' help at the right time(in most cases) while a game is being created. Basically, for Pokemon, having concept art does a lot more than just waiting for the game to come out. Many of the Pokemon he had to look at the anime to figure out how they worked and apply a moveset based upon that. That's why Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and Pikachu are heavily anime-based. Jigglypuff also was lucky to use Kirby as a base, but it still is clearly anime-based for what it does. That's ignoring the Pokemon Speak stuff. Pichu was an interesting factor; it's a clone, yep. But it also had movies out during the time that made it "hot", and is one of the mascots of Gen II, for the babies specifically. Lucario was also the hot new Pokemon, and GameFreak was pushing it. This made it easy to choose. But more importantly, it also had a unique mechanic from the anime, of which it debuted in via the movies, to work off of. They had something special to go with. Pokemon Trainer with its triple crew wasn't advertising anything. Finally Greninja and Incineroar. They got in because Sakurai liked taking the new hottest Pokemon and because he had concept art overall to work with. Both were key to it. They also were overall in a Smash game that released after Pokemon, respectively, so saying they're simply there to advertise an already selling game is misleading. That's the "advertising effect", not the reason they're basically in.

Hope that explains it better. Do note that I did silly argue that Byleth wasn't chosen to also help advertise something, but then DLC for 3H came along, and with the note that Sakurai didn't choose 'em? Yeah, there's really nothing at the moment that explains why they got in. Sakurai doesn't get to pick and choose this DLC. At best from what we can tell he's allowed to control how the character works bar 3rd party disagreements on things like costumes/etc.(See: TPC, Sega, Bamco with Pokemon Costumes, Sonic Costumes, and Pac-Man Costumes respectively) and obviously how the moveset works in some cases. Which makes sense. It's not his IP so some companies do care about that. But he's always faithful to some degree while taking creative liberties, so.

 

[fogbadge]

It's a weak phrase cause people don't know how development legitimately works. It's also an intent to dismiss legitimate business decisions in an immature manner. That's how the term was always used. It doesn't have any neutrality to it and assumes it must be bad no matter what.

It assumes they were chosen just for advertising, which obviously is not the case nor once ever has been. It's more complicated than that. Advertising can be a partial factor, but there's always something more.

We know for a fact that Corrin didn't make it in just cause of an advertisement factor. That was confirmed that the moveset was the final part of the decision. Byleth is a bit different since not only did Nintendo choose them, not Sakurai, but they also weren't used to advertise the base game whatsoever. Just the later DLC. Corrin was intentionally released before the actual Fates game released in the US, so it has straight advertising purposes. Roy was chosen with the intent it'll help sell later copies of the Binding Blade, but it didn't work out that way. Basically it's an accident that he had a greater advertising effect than planned. However, keep in mind if there was no clone spot, he wasn't happening. The other two had advertising as a part of their starting reason. The other thing is Byleth technically is more about advertisement than Corrin as Sakurai had to use the character regardless. He didn't get an opinion about whether to use them or not. All he could do is make them as cool as possible. In a way, Byleth is the only pure advertising pick, so a "shill pick" isn't technically inaccurate. Even if it's a poor term to use.

Pokemon is different as is. Sakurai didn't just choose them all, but he always goes for relevant picks because it's easy to get the developers' help at the right time(in most cases) while a game is being created. Basically, for Pokemon, having concept art does a lot more than just waiting for the game to come out. Many of the Pokemon he had to look at the anime to figure out how they worked and apply a moveset based upon that. That's why Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and Pikachu are heavily anime-based. Jigglypuff also was lucky to use Kirby as a base, but it still is clearly anime-based for what it does. That's ignoring the Pokemon Speak stuff. Pichu was an interesting factor; it's a clone, yep. But it also had movies out during the time that made it "hot", and is one of the mascots of Gen II, for the babies specifically. Lucario was also the hot new Pokemon, and GameFreak was pushing it. This made it easy to choose. But more importantly, it also had a unique mechanic from the anime, of which it debuted in via the movies, to work off of. They had something special to go with. Pokemon Trainer with its triple crew wasn't advertising anything. Finally Greninja and Incineroar. They got in because Sakurai liked taking the new hottest Pokemon and because he had concept art overall to work with. Both were key to it. They also were overall in a Smash game that released after Pokemon, respectively, so saying they're simply there to advertise an already selling game is misleading. That's the "advertising effect", not the reason they're basically in.

Hope that explains it better. Do note that I did silly argue that Byleth wasn't chosen to also help advertise something, but then DLC for 3H came along, and with the note that Sakurai didn't choose 'em? Yeah, there's really nothing at the moment that explains why they got in. Sakurai doesn't get to pick and choose this DLC. At best from what we can tell he's allowed to control how the character works bar 3rd party disagreements on things like costumes/etc.(See: TPC, Sega, Bamco with Pokemon Costumes, Sonic Costumes, and Pac-Man Costumes respectively) and obviously how the moveset works in some cases. Which makes sense. It's not his IP so some companies do care about that. But he's always faithful to some degree while taking creative liberties, so.

i was asking about their logic not yours, i was just trying to work out if there was another reason to think that beyond "I think it is"

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

i was asking about their logic not yours, i was just trying to work out if there was another reason to think that beyond "I think it is"

Ah, fair enough.

 

[GoodGrief741]

what is the reasoning for something being a "shill" pick beyond the game came out not long ago?

Easy, if the decision process is affected by marketing decisions. If Sakurai can't make a game without adding a new Pokémon, the new Pokémon has to be from the latest Gen (or rather, from the upcoming Gen, given the timeline of development), and if said Pokémon has to be a final stage starter, well then, there isn't very much logic behind those reasons that isn't "We want to promote our newest character". Given all the development stories Sakurai's shared of Pokemon (he saves a spot for a Pokemon long before the game is out and only circles back to it later in development, he gets handed only concept art for the starters), how this only happens with Pokémon and what we know of The Pokémon Company, I think it's very unlikely that this isn't the case.

Sure, I don't have a corporate memo where Incineroar or whoever is referred to as a "shill pick". Requiring such a standard of proof is naive and childish, but regardless, as long as all the Pokémon we get fulfill said conditions, the argument just gets stronger. And if the trend ever breaks, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

 

[fogbadge]

Easy, if the decision process is affected by marketing decisions. If Sakurai can't make a game without adding a new Pokémon, the new Pokémon has to be from the latest Gen (or rather, from the upcoming Gen, given the timeline of development), and if said Pokémon has to be a final stage starter, well then, there isn't very much logic behind those reasons that isn't "We want to promote our newest character". Given all the development stories Sakurai's shared of Pokemon (he saves a spot for a Pokemon long before the game is out and only circles back to it later in development, he gets handed only concept art for the starters), how this only happens with Pokémon and what we know of The Pokémon Company, I think it's very unlikely that this isn't the case.

Sure, I don't have a corporate memo where Incineroar or whoever is referred to as a "shill pick". Requiring such a standard of proof is naive and childish, but regardless, as long as all the Pokémon we get fulfill said conditions, the argument just gets stronger. And if the trend ever breaks, then I'll be glad to be wrong.

well no he never said he was given concept art for only the starters, he said he picked greninja out of all of them and we have no idea how many pokemon he was able to chose from before he narrowed it down to just decidueye and inceneroar. he chose starters he wasnt allowed to chose only starters.

surely though by that logic everything pokemon does is to shill their newest gen? i mean they work this way for everything not just smash is everything just a shill then? also how is wanting proof to back up your statements naive and childish?

 

[Dinoman96]

It just wouldn't make sense to prioritise an older Pokemon from an older generation when there's all new shiney Pokemon from recent games to promote instead.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

It just wouldn't make sense to prioritise an older Pokemon from an older generation when there's all new shiney Pokemon from recent games to promote instead.

But what if a Pokemon from a older generation is becoming more increasingly popular because of it's role recently in the anime? I still think Gen 3 is still alive strong in the games and the anime. Gen 3 Pokemon are still very popular today.

 

[UserKev]

The gen 3 missed opportunity is really dunning but I can understand if maybe why gen 5 is absent. Gen 5 Pokémon, specifically starters lacks notable or definitive traits. Unless your rooting for Hydreigon, the legendary trios.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

I literally think not putting a Gen 3 Pokemon into Smash Bros. was the biggest missed opportunity for the roster Pokemon wise.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well no he never said he was given concept art for only the starters, he said he picked greninja out of all of them and we have no idea how many pokemon he was able to chose from before he narrowed it down to just decidueye and inceneroar. he chose starters he wasnt allowed to chose only starters.

Honestly, I remember concept art for Greninja at least. Might've misremembered, though. Both of the playable characters do have concept art, regardless. I think it was assumed cause all we saw was concept art for them while debating, so people just kind of threw the idea together.

What is noted is that Sakurai did choose among the 3 X/Y starters overall, but I don't remember if the concept art was there. It's not explicitly implied as is for Incineroar's situation in comparison.

So my bad. I remembered it wrong.

 

[fogbadge]

I literally think not putting a Gen 3 Pokemon into Smash Bros. was the biggest missed opportunity for the roster Pokemon wise.

i would say quilava and dewott are but thats just me

Honestly, I remember concept art for Greninja at least. Might've misremembered, though. Both of the playable characters do have concept art, regardless. I think it was assumed cause all we saw was concept art for them while debating, so people just kind of threw the idea together.

What is noted is that Sakurai did choose among the 3 X/Y starters overall, but I don't remember if the concept art was there. It's not explicitly implied as is for Incineroar's situation in comparison.

So my bad. I remembered it wrong.

well sakurai said he saw greninja's concept art at game freak at that was the basis of his inclusion, he never mentioned anything about looking concept art form the gen 7 but the three starters final forms were leaked via concept art

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

well sakurai said he saw greninja's concept art at game freak at that was the basis of his inclusion, he never mentioned anything about looking concept art form the gen 7 but the three starters final forms were leaked via concept art

Oh, looks like I remembered Greninja right.

But not Incineroar.

It could've been concept art, but considering he said Pokemon from USUM, it was probably actual animations/etc. since the characters were already out. So had a lot more to work wtih.

 

[GoodGrief741]

well no he never said he was given concept art for only the starter

You're right, I must have misremembered. That said, he never said he got to choose out of all of them, so this is just another point where we lack information.

surely though by that logic everything pokemon does is to shill their newest gen?

Yes, pretty much. Pokemon's a huge marketing machine, where the games feed into the anime and the anime feeds into the games, and the trading cards and the merchandise. It's non-stop.

also how is wanting proof to back up your statements naive and childish

Because we'll never get the degree of transparency from a company that would get us conclusive evidence. Best we can do is hazard educated guesses.