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Defense of the Ancients [DotA], A Warcraft III UMS

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Other than the Kotl buff (which I have yet to try/see yet) what changed?
Changelogs are all here.

First off, I'm really surprised that this thread is here. Made it a few months back, then left it for dead because nobody was posting in it; glad people are making use of the search function.

Nevermind, it's almost been a year, holy **** time flies. And just reading over my old posts, I sounded like a total scrub :[

Admiral Proudmoore is broken to ****.

X marks the spot makes him one of the most imbalanced gankers, as it literally combos with every spell you can think of (PotM arrow, Tiny's toss/ava, Pudge hook to name a few).

His passive rather ridiculous as well. At level 4, you get a free 60 damage every 4 seconds in a 500 AoE; also the damage bonus only gets used up when attacking enemies, so denying becomes a lot easier.

Torrent is a nice 2/3/4/5 second slow with about 1 second of stun.

His ult stuns in a large aoe for 200/300/400 damage, grants all allies in AoE 30% bonus MS, and lets you take only half damage for the duration of the buff. You take the other half of the damage after it wears off.

Windrunner's alright; a ***** to lane against early, but not too terribly imbalanced, since she's an anti-DPS intelligence DPS hero, so she actually needs an assload of items to do something come lategame (unlike something like SK, who only needs BKB/armlet to do 500 damage crits).

First skill (Shackleshot) stuns a unit if there's a tree/enemy unit behind it (40 degrees of leeway in both directions (80 total) so you have some room for error). True stun, 3.5 seconds at level 4. Tricky to aim at first, but once you get it down, it's invaluable for gank and so on.

Powershot is her bread and butter skill. At level 4, it has a 12 s CD, 120 manacost, and does 360 damage in linear AoE (not too much width) with 1700 range. With each unit it passes through, it loses 10% of it's damage. Can cut down trees as well.

Windrunner is her escape mechanism. Gives a 50% MS increase for 2/3/4/5 seconds, slows in a 300 AoE around her, and gives her 100% physical evasion for the duration of the skill.

Focus Fire (Ultimate) - Gives her max IAS for her next 10 attacks, however, they're reduced to 50/60/70% max damage. This is the reason it's usually a waste to get IAS items on Alleria; it's more cost efficient to just get straight DPS items (MKB/Buriza) as opposed to something like Butterfly.

Phase boots just give you a WW with a 5 second fade time. That's why you only have 0 unit collision size, and are not able to go through trees/cliff like Spectre.

the fact that most of us live in differnt countries would make it hard lol. yeah i am australian so we would get epic dealy if we played. Item adive on bb? I have been getting vanguard, sange, heart and satanic. Is there a better build i should know about?

EDIT - tossing in a wand for good measure
Cookie cutter BB is either Hood/VG, and rush radiance from there. Bracers/RoB (for quill spam) are optional, and it really depends on how well you're farming. But after you hit Radi, Heart is usually a very nice option for increasing overall EHP since all BB has to do is turn his back towards the enemy, and he becomes a real ***** to kill (reduced damage from back/sides + quills spraying everywhere). Aftewards you can get some form of lifesteal, but it usually doesn't come to that. The reason I listed tanking items is that they fit BB's role best; last a long amount of time so the enemy team takes maximum damage from spray/quills, + goo/physical attacks if you aren't disabled.

Sooo....is east coast better than west coast like people on bnet sometimes say?
Old school US/CA players all originated on EC (with Merlini being arguably one of the most famous). To this day, the WC doesn't have too much going for it, aside from x6. EG/Shakens/TPD are all EC.

But as far as pubs go, both are pretty bad. TDA/DXD (both open leagues, although TDA is pretty much just a pub environment w/o leavers whereas DXD actually keeps track of stats etc) are about the same level, and all of the higher level vouch leagues (DXDin/IHCS/various Euro/Asian leagues) are run on Garena (GGC). Also, the general consensus is the the US sucks at dota (compared to Europe/Asia).

anyone got any brood advice? mines already good but i like to hear other ppl too.
Spider can solo any lane easily. If you're planning to push, max spiderlings first, get 1pt web, and get your slow. However, if this is higher level, you -may- choose to solo mid, and go something like web/slow/slow/web/slow/ult/slow, and get spiderlings at 8 for the pushing ability. Why this build, you ask? If you're able to counterward (ward***** can provide sents so you don't slow down your farm by detracting from it w/ sent money), mid is the fastest farming lane, plus you can kill any non-blink hero at 6 when you hit your ult (and you can still kill blink heroes because web gives you imba MS).

Cookie cutter is usually treads/BKB/vlads/bfly, and modify from there. Spider NEEDS bkb in order to make full use of her ult (a disabled spider = a dead spider).

I'm seriously hating how there are like 5 heroes that will automatically make you win if you have half a brain in DotA. Troll, PA, Pugna, Stealth Assasin, etc. all really piss me off. I've taken to playing AR or SD because of this. <_<.
You mean pubs. Troll/PA/SA see almost 0 time in the competitive scene, while Pugna is a nice pusher/anti-caster hero, but by no means an instawin.

Troll is a single target DPS which doesn't have much of a farming mechanism, and other hard carries far surpass him with the same amount of items + a decent team (Spectre/DK/TB). PA is the same, except she needs way too much farm to be useful. SA is okay, but he really doesn't have too much going for him except for invisibility (which wards/dust ****), and doesn't have a natural "x factor" that other carries have (Spec has haunt, DK has bull**** frost aoe, TB has sunder + 2 constant images, etc).

But yeah, in competitive DotA, no single hero can really make or break a game by itself (props to IceFrog for the excellent balancing work that he's done). However, there are very good teams that you can make out of high-tier heroes.

For example, something like Warlock/Spectre/QoP/Earthshaker/PotM is a very, very nasty lineup to play against. Warlock + Spectre lane guarantees that Spec can farm, QoP is a solid mid solo, and ES/PoTM is one of the strongest dual lanes at the moment. It also has sufficient AoE/disable to win teambattles, and ganking isn't a problem. Wards + Guinsoo carries are also taken care of. A key thing to always keep in mind when building a team is overall balance; a common mistake people make is to focus too much on "ultimate combos"; but when they actually play with that lineup, they realize that their lanes are ****.

yes their is. Pugna..... lvl up dagon, and if you have antoher powerful spell on your tean its gg and all the heroes lordofthemorning said are ture, but you forgot the "new" lycan.

@true strike kk
Oh right, forgot about bull**** .54b Lycan. Wonder when he's going to get nerfed.
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Try to get into a vouch league on GGC. Although you'd have to work your way up through GGC pubs (which are pretty much like bnet pubs), once you get into the high level rooms, good players may recommend you to try out for a vouch league.

At the moment, you can try GDGin (which is old DXDin); quite a few high level people play there (various members of MYM/x6/Shakens/etc).

GGC also works via the LAN protocol, so it's still 100ms.
 

Gerudo Warrior

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
3,247
Location
IN THE MOUNTAINS!
i know i am good enough to play in those leagues. Thanks for the tips. Is a problem that i am aus? I would love to play people from mym. I really love the Mym team in dota and wcIII
 

Weimdog

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
241
Location
Chicago, IL
Ooooh I'm excited. I really want to start up dota again (haven't played in 4 months). Need better internet, which I'll have soon.

Haven't seen the -4- new heroes, the new items, or new layout. I liked .51 for the most part (it was the last one I played)

When I get on, I'll be sure to send you guys a whisper.
And gerudo, you should try to join TDA. No rage quitters, I like it.
 

missedwithtruestrike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
473
Location
washington NJ
@weimdog: feel free to whisper me (7thsonofa7thson) i play usually from friday night to sunday afternoon nonstop, not this weekrnd though...i have a concert to go to and a magic draft to attend to.
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Ooooh I'm excited. I really want to start up dota again (haven't played in 4 months). Need better internet, which I'll have soon.

Haven't seen the -4- new heroes, the new items, or new layout. I liked .51 for the most part (it was the last one I played)

When I get on, I'll be sure to send you guys a whisper.
And gerudo, you should try to join TDA. No rage quitters, I like it.
Although TDA imposes a no leaver rule, the no ff until 60 minutes is ********, and the skill level varies far too much (from fresh out of em pubs to players that frequent the top level of DotA). Also his being from AUS would be a pretty big issues (since the majority of TDA is US East, and AUS gets pretty bad lag to East hosts).

Try vouch leagues on GGC if you want better competition; TDAs are really just pubs without leavers :p

Oh, feel free to share any replays that you think are imba :D
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
If you guys want I can update the first post listing people's usernames (and their respective realms ofc) and other miscellaneous stuff (replays, helpful links, interesting comp games, and so on).
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
tbh miharu, you could just link dota-allstars, rather than finding all those resources yourself. Although, a link to http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=119608 seems appropriate.

Yea the 60 min rule is a bit bogus, but I really don't like the pressure of having my score recorded. Do the GGC leagues have skill requirements?
Oh I know, I go on D-A forums regularly.

And yes, GGC leagues are all vouch leagues, so there are certain skill requirements that need to be met, either via replay or test/vouch games. It's worth the effort to be able to get games in with the top players of the world, though.
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Sniper's a rather versatile hero DPS-wise, so there isn't really a definitive "best" build for him (unlike heroes such as Crixalis or Leoric).

Although a typical starting items would be Treads + Wraiths, then from there build items depending on what the situation dictates. Although BKB is somewhat of a staple if the opposing team has a large number of disables/stuns that don't go through Avatar.

Lothars is a decent escape mechanism that just gives pure +DMG, so you'll need IAS + some survivability afterwards. BKB + SnY would actually go well with that, although keep in mind that you're investing in 3 Tier 3 items that somewhat pale in comparison when put up against something like Bfly/Satanic/MKB or whatever.

Speaking of DPS, Stygian Desolator is by far the most cost-efficient item in terms of pure damage if you can get it early; if not, just look into bfly/buriza for pure damage. Also, don't forget to make use of an orb effect (lifesteal is most preferrable, SnY is nice for chasing, Deso is nice against heroes that don't have naturally high armor that also aren't getting armor auras, Mjollnir provides very underrated DPS + is provides some AoE, etc).

Anyways, just follow a set of basic guidelines when deciding on items:

Against a predominantly caster/spell-based team - BKB
Get Lothars if you need an escape mechanism badly (BKB to TP also works here)
Deso against generally lower-armor heroes
Against primarily physical/DPS based team - lifesteal/Bfly (for the evasion)
Against team with 1+ scary melee carry - Skadi (allows you to kite melee heroes all day, also stacks with lifesteal/Mjolnir)
Bfly almost always >> AC for sniper, since as an AGI hero, he benefits from the +30 AGI (in terms of damage), and the armor gain + 30% evasion gives you about the same EHP as you would get from AC's +15 armor. Also gives 5% more IAS.

There's a lot of small things that I may have missed, but you generally pick these kinds of things up after you've been playing for a while :p
 

missedwithtruestrike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
473
Location
washington NJ
this one seems to be a pretty touchy subject....bd. backdoor, i get yelled at for a helluva lot ltely courtesy of who may be my new fav hero, pit lord. (im open for advice, feel free to give some) anyway, what wxactly qualifies as bd? is it just attacking w/out creep or does it go deeper, i read the rules in game and they say its okay as long as i dont tp INTO a base out of it is okay, but they dont say what exactly it is.
and miharu (and everyone else) what do you think of my sniper build, good, bad, lacluster?
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Well, most people who are of pub level frown upon any kind of backdooring period. Before I go on any further, I'll just clarify that backdooring is usually defined as attacking an enemy structure (be it a rax, random building, or tower) without creep support (allied creeps withing 600 range). So most pubs dislike BDing because it's "gay/dishonorable/cheating/whatever." It's mostly due to 2 points of negligence on their part:

1) They don't carry tps, which makes getting from one side of the map to the other very slow and inconvenient.

2) They lack map awareness/don't use the minimap so much.

However, most, if not all leagues will allow the backdooring of any non-base building, which is essentially the 6 outer towers. However, backdooring of base towers/raxes is usually banned, since it unnecessarily prolongs the game (along with a host of other reasons that would take far too long to explain. Play some competitive DotA, and you'll begin to understand).

okay thanx.-treads -lothars
This one actually isn't too bad in a pub environment.

-MoM -b fly
Pretty bad. Makes you even more of a glass canon than you should be, since you have absolutely 0 survivability (the +MS from MoM's activation doesn't do too much).

-hyperstone -skadi/2nd hyper
Bfly over 2 hypers so you actually have some form of damage.

Just keep in mind sniper needs survivability in some form (HP item works best here). For example, a build that makes you useful very quickly is Wraiths/StrTreads/Deso/BKB. Magic immunity, a nice chunk of HP, and some cheap HP/AS.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
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aZ
Why do leagues allow bans? How game breaking do characters like Chen and Omniknight become?
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
In the current APXL format (known as CM ever since version .55), each team is allowed 4 bans done in a 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 format.

Pretty much allows for teams to demonstrate flexibility and prevents every single game from consisting of the same 10-12 heroes being played. Adds an element of diversity/strategy to the game.

Bans aren't set in stone either; you can ban heroes that you simply don't like playing against.

In .52e, Omni was usually banned for 2 reasons:

1) Free magic immunity on command (20 sec duration, 20 sec cd).
2) Guardian Angel, which grants nearby allied units physical immunity (+1000 armor).

Chen was usually banned for the following reasons:

1) Creeps provided extra disables
2) Can jungle either side (thus rendering warding to block off neuts rather ineffective)
3) Can gank any lane
4) Creeps allow for fast tower pushes, netting team quick extra gold

Of course, the metagame evolved, and counters became readily apparent. Omni actually didn't win very many games in .52e, but he's a ***** to play against nevertheless.

In short, bans add variance + strategy to the game.

But in the more recent maps used for league play (.52e and .56) no character was as gamebreaking as was say pre-.48b Visage/.48b Bristleback/.48b Spectre except for .52e Terrorblade, and some teams agreed to just mutually not play him (as in disregard him completely in the picking/banning process).
 

missedwithtruestrike

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
473
Location
washington NJ
i'm back with more questions...this time the heros in mind are warlock and ogre magi, both of which i can play and do okay but tips, advice "bread&butter" builds would be nice...and who they do well with cuz i recently started up a clan.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
Keep in mind about the dates on guides though. Some of them, even though they aren't archived, are somewhat outdated if you think about some of the major changes in recent versions that the guides may not address.
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
He might TDA from time to time, though; although I'm not too sure about that (seeing that I spend all of my time on West unless it's for a scrim).
 

Miharu

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 13, 2006
Messages
6,647
Location
Bay Area, CA
Not too hard for me to spoof the name "IceFrog" with LC and claim that I'm the real IceFrog as well.

Pretty sure he's not good at DotA (from what I hear he barely he has time to play).
 
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