• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

December 21st, 2012. The end of days?

cF=)

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
1,909
What can I say except, "you're wrong"? It's that simple. The Bible is not all literal or all metaphorical. There's no problem with that, seeing as it was written by a host of different authors for different audiences and purposes.
If you ever argue with creationists, EVERYTHING in the Old Testament is true. Starting to nitpick what's true and what's false in the Bible only prove this book's a pile of bull****.

On the isue of Satan, yes, he's a "bad guy" according to the church, but I wanted to explain why he's the theorically the wrong choice. He chooses present life as paradise, while the church aim to the same with the after-life. You got it right, he's probably against reincarnation, but why what I said would be wrong ?

I'm still not understanding you here. There's no chosing between science and belief. In the terms of the NDE drug, I acknowledge what you said was true. Wohoo science! But I'm also arguing that God is able to use that drug, and probably created it in the beginning of time, for the purpose of divine inspiration.

And since when was the Big Bang proven?
Since when did I said it was ? And for the last time, using logical reasoning goes against the basic principle of faith -> denying a God that created Earth in 7 days with unicorns and stuff leads you to logic -> and logic brought up scientifical discoveries. If you believe in science, why are you christian ?

I'm not saying you can't believe in a supernatural being who invented everything science will discover, I'm saying this God is not christian, nor is he Allah, nor any deity from we know.

Or Genetic Mutation?
A misinterpretation of evolution. THIS IS WHAT DARWIN SAID, SCIENTIST CHANGED THIS THEORY OVER TIME. I'll edit this part when I'll have time, brb showering...
 

Eturnus_Frost

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
134
Location
Texas
Switch FC
SW-1990-3003-7432
If you ever argue with creationists, EVERYTHING in the Old Testament is true. Starting to nitpick what's true and what's false in the Bible only prove this book's a pile of bull****.

On the isue of Satan, yes, he's a "bad guy" according to the church, but I wanted to explain why he's the theorically the wrong choice. He chooses present life as paradise, while the church aim to the same with the after-life. You got it right, he's probably against reincarnation, but why what I said would be wrong ?

Since when did I said it was ? And for the last time, using logical reasoning goes against the basic principle of faith -> denying a God that created Earth in 7 days with unicorns and stuff leads you to logic -> and logic brought up scientifical discoveries. If you believe in science, why are you christian ?

I'm not saying you can't believe in a supernatural being who invented everything science will discover, I'm saying this God is not christian, nor is he Allah, nor any deity from we know.

A misinterpretation of evolution. THIS IS WHAT DARWIN SAID, SCIENTIST CHANGED THIS THEORY OVER TIME. I'll edit this part when I'll have time, brb showering...
Point taken, no need to edit.

And I didn't clarify them as one.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
Some of you need to watch the episode of South Park that talks about how Mormonism was created. You know, the one with the singing story telling with the chorus that goes "Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb"
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
Hey, Eor. Could you break down the math a little easier. This is an argument Ive never heard before, and I'd like to understand it.
Basically, I used published scientific annalysis about how many humans where alive at a given time, and then divided it by 35,000-(how many years ago it was), giving me how many extra humans a year needed to have been born. That's not just born in general, but excess, that many born over the millions that died. Which, if we started from two people only, doesn't make sense.

Then I simply talked about how, if we started in one spot, how could a few descendants of a simple family travel all across the entire world almost instantaneously and start cultures and language, all different from everyone else, and then change their skin color? And why would these people, who had direct proof of God, all of a sudden forget him? Asia never believed in the God of Abraham during Biblical time, nor did Europe, Africa, or the people in the Americas. Yet according to the bible, they are all from the same family.
 

Mike87

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
604
Location
Miami,FL
Especially if Adam was infertile.
The Bible makes no mention of that, and if he was it would never be mentioned as it was always assumed it was the woman who could not bear children.

One of the main flaws of the Creation story is that we are the descendants of one inbred family.
And It doesn't work like that.
 

shadenexus18

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
3,702
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
NNID
ForteEXE1986
The Second coming of Christ has been predicted several times and all guesses has proven to be wrong so far as the world has yet to come to an end.
Moreover, the world isn't going to come to an end just like that. It's going to gradually get roughed up. I think first though will be the rapture, and anyone else left here afterwards will experience the 7 years of great tribulation. I think it's a way for God to say this is your last chance to renounce your ways and serve me 4 ever and ever.

And as for the cause of this, I seriously believe that America is accidently going to put the AnitChrist in the White House. That's why we need to be alert of all of these prime candidates of future president's real motives and see through there deceptions.
 

-Rei-

Saviour of PacWest
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
9,699
Location
Japan
my history teacher in high school told us the mayan calendar is off by like a few minutes so i thought that we were going to die minutes after the day but then...
i saw some tv special on this it was weird it was at night. they mentioned something will change (i forgot) but the world will continue. so i was like ok, so no end of the world then.
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
And for the last time, using logical reasoning goes against the basic principle of faith -> denying a God that created Earth in 7 days with unicorns and stuff leads you to logic -> and logic brought up scientifical discoveries. If you believe in science, why are you christian ?
I still think we're miscommunicating a bit here. Of course, I will chose faith over science if it comes to a point where they clash in some way. I'm not saying I'll close my eyes and pretend I didn't hear it. It's more like I have faith that the problem presented to me has a logical answer, and I just dont know it yet. It's kinda like how evolutionists must have faith that the missing link is out there somewhere although they dont have conclusive proof yet.

Er, so yeah. I cant believe in science and faith.
Then I simply talked about how, if we started in one spot, how could a few descendants of a simple family travel all across the entire world almost instantaneously and start cultures and language, all different from everyone else, and then change their skin color? And why would these people, who had direct proof of God, all of a sudden forget him? Asia never believed in the God of Abraham during Biblical time, nor did Europe, Africa, or the people in the Americas. Yet according to the bible, they are all from the same family.
I'm not sure where you would think that the families of the Old Testament traveled across great distances "instantaneously". I think someone already mentioned the Tower of Babel as the Bible's explaination of where there are so many different races/languages, and why the people of the earth decided to move away from each other instead of staying in one, huge city.
It also mentions why people forgot about God as well. They just plain didn't want to follow him, and it's why God created the Flood in the first place. It was because the whole world was filled was so much sin with no thought of righteousness that He saved what He could and whiped out the rest.
Also, if you're going to believe in God, you might as well believe in demons too. Most of the world took demons as their gods.

Oh, and I've been checking out talkorigins.com. Is the whole cite in favor of evolution, or is there a little section where it supports creationism as well? Because if there is I sure cant find it. (not that I've looked hard at all >_>)
 

cF=)

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 22, 2005
Messages
1,909
I still think we're miscommunicating a bit here. Of course, I will chose faith over science if it comes to a point where they clash in some way. I'm not saying I'll close my eyes and pretend I didn't hear it. It's more like I have faith that the problem presented to me has a logical answer, and I just dont know it yet. It's kinda like how evolutionists must have faith that the missing link is out there somewhere although they dont have conclusive proof yet.
Well, in this case, I agree with you, but I debated religious faith rather than faith in general. The faith you have is more something called 'vitalism', the unknown properties of our world science can't explain yet. Look it up on google or read some books by Michel Onfray, they explain pretty well this concept.

Perhaps I have not said it yet, but there is no missing link as we know it in the current theory of evolution. The missing link is a problem we had when we thought man was an overclocked ape, and had to find the in-between species linking us to monkeys in general. Now, with more recent reasearches, there is no missing link, but rather a common ancestor we need to find through archeological excavations. There's quite a difference.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
It's a scientific website, so no, it doesn't support intelligent design at all, because there is flat out no science to back it up.

I said "Instantaneously" because we have proof that civilizations started up in opposite parts of the world at just about the same time.

If people took demons as their Gods, then why did these religions have many of the same sins as Christianity, preach peace, and not tell their followers to act as barbaric bloodthirsty savages. Really, are you going to say that Gandhi worshiped a demon? Buddhism is one of the most peaceful religions out there, so why would you explain that as "Demon"?

Besides, saying "Demons!" is the same as if you're writing Lost, and after the third season thing "Hmm...how do I explain all of this...ah, Aliens did it" and then call a break for lunch. There is no reason for demons to create so many different religions with peaceful ideals and moral sins.

Tower of Babel has nothing about race, it just says God cursed them into speaking different languages.

And with the flood, how is it love to just kill everyone who doesn't follow you? Wouldn't you say that there is much more sin going on now then before, especially since the Bible preaches theocracy, and almost every government is secular? If anything, we should have a flood.

Also, although nothing to do with this debate (though maybe you're a believer in it), I cannot understand the people who say "All nations that don't follow God collapse", or that "God is the only way a country can be great/sustain itself."

Have they not heard of Rome? As Pagans, they conquered the majority of the western world. And then they converted to Christianity and almost immediately afterwards lost everything.
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
1,568
Location
Blarg.
Moreover, the world isn't going to come to an end just like that. It's going to gradually get roughed up. I think first though will be the rapture, and anyone else left here afterwards will experience the 7 years of great tribulation. I think it's a way for God to say this is your last chance to renounce your ways and serve me 4 ever and ever.
Not quite. It's a little more scary: the Bible says that after the "rapture", or whatever (that's more of a human-created word), people will be going around getting stung by huge mosquitoes or something. You'll want to die, but God won't let you. God won't let you repent, either. So you'll go to Hell.

No last chance. Your first chance is your last chance.
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
There's no use worrying about the world ending now. If it ends on that date, wtf are you going to do about it, really? I've known a few crazy people that believed that the world would end on 1/1/2000. Well, we could laugh at them now that we know nothing happened then.... If nothing happens on 12/21/2012, we could laugh at these people now too. But if the world does end, there's nothing that I could do about it.
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
Jammer, where does it say that God wont let you convert in the end times? I kinda found Revelations boring so my knowledge of that Book is limited.
If people took demons as their Gods, then why did these religions have many of the same sins as Christianity, preach peace, and not tell their followers to act as barbaric bloodthirsty savages? Really, are you going to say that Gandhi worshiped a demon? Buddhism is one of the most peaceful religions out there, so why would you explain that as "Demon"?
Baal, Beelzebub, and Maloch were just some ancient gods spoken about in the Bible which didn't follow the same moral code as the Jews did. Those were the gods I was talking about. But alright, as long as you brought those other religions up I'll follow along.
Besides, saying "Demons!" is the same as if you're writing Lost, and after the third season thing "Hmm...how do I explain all of this...ah, Aliens did it" and then call a break for lunch. There is no reason for demons to create so many different religions with peaceful ideals and moral sins.
The only thing demons have interest in is keeping people away from God. Some peoples might react better if they are afraid, so the demons demand the sacrifice of twenty children a year, or else they get smited. Some peoples might follow them because the demons could promise better crops. Whatever the reason, in the end, all they care about is leading people away from God. It is not hard to imagine they would do whatever possible.

Also, note that the three largest religions are Christianity followed by Islam and Hinduism. Assuming there are demons in the world, it looks like the whole "peaceful idea and moral sins" approach would be worth considering to them if they wanted some followers. The devil loves to pretend to be an angel of light.

And if I have offended anyone with these last few paragraphs then I'm terribly sorry. That was never my intention. Erg, I spent a lot of time here trying to phrase my words in a manner which would be fine with everyone, but it just doesn't look possible.
Tower of Babel has nothing about race, it just says God cursed them into speaking different languages.
Honestly, I see no reason why the passage should mention race, even if it is exactly how different races came to be. That's my honest opinion looking at it. This neither supports nor disproves anything, unfortunately.

And I guess mutation, changes in habbitat, and what the heck I may as well include inbreeding among Noah's descendants could effect the whole race thing.
And with the flood, how is it love to just kill everyone who doesn't follow you? Wouldn't you say that there is much more sin going on now then before, especially since the Bible preaches theocracy, and almost every government is secular? If anything, we should have a flood.
Genesis 6 said:
5The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.
...
11 Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, "I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth.
The passage isn't too great on the details, but in one verse it even mentions that God had grieved making man. Note that He never even regretted this when Adam and Eve first sinned. It seems as if the whole world was filled with such evil that it was considered unsalvagable, and this was the best way.

"every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time" was the description of each person. The world certainly hasn't come back to this point again.
Also, although nothing to do with this debate (though maybe you're a believer in it), I cannot understand the people who say "All nations that don't follow God collapse", or that "God is the only way a country can be great/sustain itself."
If you were addressing me then, no, I dont think that way.

coughcrusadescough

Not that I'm sure that there has been what I'd call a completely Christian country in the existence of the world though. I suppose England's main religion at some point was Christian, but there certainly didn't act that way. Inquisition. >_> Actually, I'm not sure how I feel about this issue.
 

Junpappy

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Messages
1,439
Location
aZ
There's no use worrying about the world ending now. If it ends on that date, wtf are you going to do about it, really? I've known a few crazy people that believed that the world would end on 1/1/2000. Well, we could laugh at them now that we know nothing happened then.... If nothing happens on 12/21/2012, we could laugh at these people now too. But if the world does end, there's nothing that I could do about it.
It's not so much a matter of trying to prevent the world from ending. It's the same as if you knew when you were going to die; you would change your life and get the most out of it before your death.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
Jammer, where does it say that God wont let you convert in the end times? I kinda found Revelations boring so my knowledge of that Book is limited.
I'm pretty certain that the Bible states that are never too late to forgive, as long as you are still alive.

The only thing demons have interest in is keeping people away from God. Some peoples might react better if they are afraid, so the demons demand the sacrifice of twenty children a year, or else they get smited. Some peoples might follow them because the demons could promise better crops. Whatever the reason, in the end, all they care about is leading people away from God. It is not hard to imagine they would do whatever possible.
I'm guessing this religion is from the Bible? There's no religion that required 20 human sacrifices a year or anything like that, despite what old Christianity wrote (well, except the whole Aztecs slaughtering thousands of people a year thing).

Also, note that the three largest religions are Christianity followed by Islam and Hinduism. Assuming there are demons in the world, it looks like the whole "peaceful idea and moral sins" approach would be worth considering to them if they wanted some followers. The devil loves to pretend to be an angel of light.
Really, this is exactly what I meant with the "Aliens!" part. When other religions preach love, it violates that belief in God and Jesus alone cause moral righteousness. It's a plot hole, and as we all know, plot holes are solved by aliens, even if it makes no sense for aliens to care what color jacket Tom wore. As is this plot hole is solved by Demons, who apparently want to lead the majority of the world into doing good things.

And if I have offended anyone with these last few paragraphs then I'm terribly sorry. That was never my intention. Erg, I spent a lot of time here trying to phrase my words in a manner which would be fine with everyone, but it just doesn't look possible.
Well, generally speaking, since most of the world think you're following a false prophet, or a demon themselves, it would be for them to be offended by it.

Honestly, I see no reason why the passage should mention race, even if it is exactly how different races came to be. That's my honest opinion looking at it. This neither supports nor disproves anything, unfortunately.
True, it doesn't, but you presented it as God creating new races.

And I guess mutation, changes in habbitat, and what the heck I may as well include inbreeding among Noah's descendants could effect the whole race thing.
Well now I'm curious about your evolution views, because what you described does show an understanding of evolution. Though as art has been shown with those differences in humans as soon as civilization has started up, there wouldn't have been enough time for this to happen in just 35,000 years.

Everything about Noah's flood
Alright, I concede.

If you were addressing me then, no, I dont think that way.

coughcrusadescough

Not that I'm sure that there has been what I'd call a completely Christian country in the existence of the world though. I suppose England's main religion at some point was Christian, but there certainly didn't act that way. Inquisition. >_> Actually, I'm not sure how I feel about this issue.
It wasn't directed at you, just an afterthought.

Though I've noticed you've been ignoring my points on civilization starting up everywhere at around the same time. All you mentioned is Babel, which to you caused everyone to migrate, but that doesn't mention how that many people can spread so far so quickly, and start completely different cultures that have little resemblance to each other, while others just continued their hunter-gatherer societies.
 

Zink

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,365
Location
STEP YO GAME UP
If you ever argue with creationists, EVERYTHING in the Old Testament is true. Starting to nitpick what's true and what's false in the Bible only prove this book's a pile of bull****.

On the isue of Satan, yes, he's a "bad guy" according to the church, but I wanted to explain why he's the theorically the wrong choice. He chooses present life as paradise, while the church aim to the same with the after-life. You got it right, he's probably against reincarnation, but why what I said would be wrong ?

Since when did I said it was ? And for the last time, using logical reasoning goes against the basic principle of faith -> denying a God that created Earth in 7 days with unicorns and stuff leads you to logic -> and logic brought up scientifical discoveries. If you believe in science, why are you christian ?

I'm not saying you can't believe in a supernatural being who invented everything science will discover, I'm saying this God is not christian, nor is he Allah, nor any deity from we know.

A misinterpretation of evolution. THIS IS WHAT DARWIN SAID, SCIENTIST CHANGED THIS THEORY OVER TIME. I'll edit this part when I'll have time, brb showering...
sorry this is kind of a late post :( anyway... there's nothing "false" in the Bible. It's entirely possible that there are some minor historical or geographical errors or whatever, because the authors were after all only human, but there's nothing in it that contradicts its basic message.
As for Satan, this was already kind of covered, but all he's interested in is pulling people away from God. He can present anything he wants as the truth to try and do this, like materialism or relativism or whatever, but it all boils down to the same thing: tricks.
On Rapture and who gets into heaven: the Cathlic Church does not believe in the Rapture, simple as that. If you actually read the Book or Revelations, (I spent a few weeks on it, doing analyses with a priest) it is chock full of references and symbolism for the oppression of the Christians by the Romans, early on. I can post the stuff if you want. Also, the best idea IMO for who 666 is- the emperor Nero. I don't know how much Hebrew you know, but the letters or Caesar Nero or somehting like that (some combination of Nero + a title) add up to the magic numbers. In addition, according to the Catholic Church, the only way to NOT get into heaven is to be in mortal sin at the time of your death. If you killed 15 people and repent 20 seconds before you die, you're in. The only unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
if you all want a source, this should all be in the catechism.
ps thanks for those who posted the math for that 3500 number, it sounds pretty dumb however it was found.
pps Goldshadow's post better be HUGE lol
ok now I need to work, more tomorrow.
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
Eor said:
I'm guessing this religion is from the Bible? There's no religion that required 20 human sacrifices a year or anything like that, despite what old Christianity wrote (well, except the whole Aztecs slaughtering thousands of people a year thing).
Meh, I just made it up. However, I am pretty certain that at least the god Maloch (sp?) required people to sacrifice their children to him. I'm not exactly sure on the details. I only remember because I heard/read it recently, but I'm not quite sure where.
Really, this is exactly what I meant with the "Aliens!" part. When other religions preach love, it violates that belief in God and Jesus alone cause moral righteousness. It's a plot hole, and as we all know, plot holes are solved by aliens, even if it makes no sense for aliens to care what color jacket Tom wore. As is this plot hole is solved by Demons, who apparently want to lead the majority of the world into doing good things.
Alright then. I concede this point because that, in a matter of speaking, is my view on things. I could try to defend myself, but there'd be no point.
Well, generally speaking, since most of the world think you're following a false prophet, or a demon themselves, it would be for them to be offended by it.
I really should write a better pre-emptive apology in case someone of a different religion reads this.

Once again, I was not mocking any beliefs, though attacking each other's beliefs will be natural in a discussion between people of different religions. As a Christian, one of my duties is to spread what I believe in an effort to win people over. It is pretty obvious that mocking the people I wish to convert is just a plain bad idea. For this reason (and there are many other reasons) I did not intentionally go out of my way to mock any religion that is not mine. If not for the sake of those who dont belive what I believe, then for my own sake as one trying to spread the Word.
Though I've noticed you've been ignoring my points on civilization starting up everywhere at around the same time. All you mentioned is Babel, which to you caused everyone to migrate, but that doesn't mention how that many people can spread so far so quickly, and start completely different cultures that have little resemblance to each other, while others just continued their hunter-gatherer societies.
Yeah, I have been ignoring them. I have ever encountered this arguement before, and since I dont know anything about it, I think it's best I dont make something up out of nowhere. Your point about ancient art showing people of different race was interesting though.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
Maloch could be Malakh, but Malakh is an angel, he was never worshiped as a God and never required sacrifice.

I'm just arguing against a literal interpretation of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. I actually don't have a problem with people who take it to be literal, as long as they accept that Science goes against it and that they don't have any proof, and aren't ***** about it. But I haven't found a person like that yet.
 

Mike87

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 23, 2007
Messages
604
Location
Miami,FL
And as for the cause of this, I seriously believe that America is accidently going to put the AnitChrist in the White House. That's why we need to be alert of all of these prime candidates of future president's real motives and see through there deceptions.
:laugh: It s kind of hard to see a politician's real motives as many of them are full of themselves.

The Bible doesn't say He's loving. It says He's "awesome and terrible".
God manifested himself in Christ to save us from our sins.
Jesus preached messages of love and he contradicted alot of Old Testament teachings.
Which is a reason why he was wanted dead, his ideas were too loberal for his time.
 

Rapid_Assassin

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
4,163
Location
RI
It's not so much a matter of trying to prevent the world from ending. It's the same as if you knew when you were going to die; you would change your life and get the most out of it before your death.
Shouldn't you be doing that anyway? Or at least want to?
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
1,568
Location
Blarg.
Jammer, where does it say that God wont let you convert in the end times? I kinda found Revelations boring so my knowledge of that Book is limited.
I remember a couple of verses here that are relevant (I might be off on the wording):

Revelation 3:3 said:
Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Revelation 16:15 said:
"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed."
Those aren't really good enough. Let me look at my Bible.

This is after a bunch of plagues are set on the Earth. The majority of mankind has been killed.

Revelation 9:20-21 said:
The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone, adn wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk. Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.
Again, after horrible plagues:

Revelation 16:9-11 said:
They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him. The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and his kingdom was plunged into darkness. Men gnawed their tongues in agony and cursed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, but they refused to repent of what they had done.
And, in case you're wondering, I skimmed through the whole book and didn't find anything that said anyone who wasn't already "in Christ" (that's the phrase it used at one time) repented.

I'm no expert on Revelation, but I'm fairly certain it doesn't deviate from what I've quoted.

And for all of you who are confused by people "refusing" to repent, that's actually most likely, in my opinion, God "hardening their hearts", like He did to Pharaoh (that's another story). In short, you already made your decision, and you're not allowed to change it now, even if you would normally want to. In fact, God "hardens your heart", so that you yourself refuse to repent. It doesn't sound nice, of course, but I think that's what it means.

And now for the huge disclaimer: Most people believe that Revelation is the apostle John's prophecy given to him by God about what happens at the "end of days". But there are many people who believe that it's actually about things that were happening at that time period (when John wrote it), or that happened shortly after. A few people believe the events depicted in Revelation are occurring right now.

I guess it's up to interpretation, and, as Revelation is full of symbolism and imagery and allegory and metaphor, even for Bible standards, it can get quite confusing at times.

Hope this answers a few questions.
 

tmw_redcell

ULTRA GORGEOUS
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 28, 2001
Messages
8,046
Location
HANDSOMEVILLE
Shouldn't you be doing that anyway? Or at least want to?
Well, there are different ways to "live life to the fullest." For instance, a person might go to med school or something which is difficult and stressful in order to live their life to the fullest later on, by helping people by day and being rich by night. But if the world were to definitely end in 2012, entering med school now would just be pointless stress, unless you also just like learning about medicine. It's not practical to just live at maximum hedonism all the time.
 

Tryptomine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
268
Location
UCF, Orlando
I really should write a better pre-emptive apology in case someone of a different religion reads this.

Once again, I was not mocking any beliefs, though attacking each other's beliefs will be natural in a discussion between people of different religions. As a Christian, one of my duties is to spread what I believe in an effort to win people over. It is pretty obvious that mocking the people I wish to convert is just a plain bad idea. For this reason (and there are many other reasons) I did not intentionally go out of my way to mock any religion that is not mine. If not for the sake of those who dont belive what I believe, then for my own sake as one trying to spread the Word.
Problem is, just by having beleifs such as that, you inherently mock non-Christians.

It actually reminds me a bit about something I read in the novel Rising Sun by Michael Crichton wherein one American detective who was an expert on Japanese culture was explaining it to another man and said something along the lines of "The Japanese are, by and large, one of the most racist people in the world (keep in mind this was written back in 1980 or so). Most beleive that every race other themselves are nothing but primitive barbarians. Oh, sure, they're nice about it and all. Afterall, they know full well that you can't help the way you are born, but at the end of the day you're still a slobbering neanderthal."
 

Zink

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,365
Location
STEP YO GAME UP
Problem is, just by having beleifs such as that, you inherently mock non-Christians.

It actually reminds me a bit about something I read in the novel Rising Sun by Michael Crichton wherein one American detective who was an expert on Japanese culture was explaining it to another man and said something along the lines of "The Japanese are, by and large, one of the most racist people in the world (keep in mind this was written back in 1980 or so). Most beleive that every race other themselves are nothing but primitive barbarians. Oh, sure, they're nice about it and all. Afterall, they know full well that you can't help the way you are born, but at the end of the day you're still a slobbering neanderthal."
In case you needed me to randomly pop up with the official Catholic position on other religions, officially we're supposed to be down with the Jewish and Muslim people. It's thought that we're all worshipping the same God through different... lenses, shall we say.
 

commonyoshi

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 16, 2006
Messages
6,215
Location
dainty perfect
Maloch could be Malakh, but Malakh is an angel, he was never worshiped as a God and never required sacrifice.
And for all of you who are confused by people "refusing" to repent, that's actually most likely, in my opinion, God "hardening their hearts", like He did to Pharaoh (that's another story). In short, you already made your decision, and you're not allowed to change it now, even if you would normally want to. In fact, God "hardens your heart", so that you yourself refuse to repent. It doesn't sound nice, of course, but I think that's what it means.
I dont see why you would think that, but alright.

I have a question concerning how multiple, early civilizations started up at once. How exactly would an evolutionist explain that? I kinda thought about it, and it doesn't really make sense for apes of relatively decent intelligence to wander off from a place like China to Africa for no good reason. It'd be even more weird if the cities all started sprouting up at about the same time. I know there's probably no definite answer to this, and it mere guesswork, but I'm fine with that.
 

Zink

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,365
Location
STEP YO GAME UP
Molech was his name. My bad.

I dont see why you would think that, but alright.

I have a question concerning how multiple, early civilizations started up at once. How exactly would an evolutionist explain that? I kinda thought about it, and it doesn't really make sense for apes of relatively decent intelligence to wander off from a place like China to Africa for no good reason. It'd be even more weird if the cities all started sprouting up at about the same time. I know there's probably no definite answer to this, and it mere guesswork, but I'm fine with that.
I don't really have anything exact... iirc the earliest humans were in Africa, but the first civilizations grew up in the Mesopotemia area. I dunno about the time frame though. I don't think early civs actually were as close to each other as we think, it's just that the farther back you go in the past the less you can percieve temporal distances... I call it the past compression effect. Amything that happened more than 50-100 years ago seems to blend together somewhat.
 

House M.D.

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
136
Location
New Haven/Bryn Mawr
this thread is intense and religious. i am an athiest and believe in evolution (in fact i'm embarrassed that i live in a society where i have to say something like, i BELIEVE in evolution, it's not a question of belief, it's a fact), but i don't understand why the god-believing folk don't just believe something like, part of god's world is evolution and then interpret the bible metaphorically rather than literally.

also, i bet that in 2012 the universe will collapse when captain falcon's knee and chuck norris' roundhouse kick clank.
 

Eor

Banned via Warnings
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Messages
9,963
Location
Bed
I have a question concerning how multiple, early civilizations started up at once. How exactly would an evolutionist explain that? I kinda thought about it, and it doesn't really make sense for apes of relatively decent intelligence to wander off from a place like China to Africa for no good reason. It'd be even more weird if the cities all started sprouting up at about the same time. I know there's probably no definite answer to this, and it mere guesswork, but I'm fine with that.
No no, there's an answer. I'll do my best to summarize what happened.

Basically, the first Humans as we'd call them originated in the African Savana's, around 200,000 years ago. When Humans started out, we where nomads, the hunter-gather society. We wandered around, following game and gathering food from the Earth. We had no concept of agriculture or domesticating animals at this time, we walked in packs.

We did that for almost 190,000 years

But then people discovered agriculture, and began domesticating animals. This food surplus encouraged humans to create permanent settlements, leading to the domestication of animals and the use of metal tools.

So we where around a long time before civilization started, we drifted and slowly discovered agriculture on our own in different parts of the world, and then began to settle down. The early civilizations where all around massive Rivers, like the Yellow River in China or the Tigris and the Euphrates, or the Nile.

That's a very basic summary of what happened, but mainly you where wrong in thinking that we evolved and then immediately started being civilized.
 

Jammer

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Messages
1,568
Location
Blarg.
this thread is intense and religious. i am an athiest and believe in evolution (in fact i'm embarrassed that i live in a society where i have to say something like, i BELIEVE in evolution, it's not a question of belief, it's a fact), but i don't understand why the god-believing folk don't just believe something like, part of god's world is evolution and then interpret the bible metaphorically rather than literally.
That's actually pretty much what I believe.

I believe God started the world with the Big Bang, and set it up so that it would evolve the way it did. It's kind of like one of those Pachinko games: If you have ultimate Pachinko skill, you can drop the ball in such a way as to get it to go exactly where you want it to. The bouncing around seems random, but it really isn't, and if you're a perfect being who can see the future, that's no problem.

So, in short, I believe in evolution and God. I really don't see how they're mutually exclusive. God just started it off, and evolution did His bidding.

Another possibility is that God just made the world to look like evolution to take place. Since you would never be able to tell either, it doesn't really matter whether that's what actually happened or not.

In fact, the whole evolution versus Intelligent Design debate seems really overblown to me. Since you can never get beyond philosophical debates, I like to give my opinion (the one I just gave) and get away from there quick.
 

Hiemie

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Nov 10, 2001
Messages
4,065
Location
Dipped in Gold
Alright, this is bullpucky.

Anyone think they can convince me NOT to close this topic?

Also: Don't assume anything about me.
 

Zink

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 3, 2006
Messages
2,365
Location
STEP YO GAME UP
asdf hieme's epic return
don't close this, we're having a good discussion even if it's only tangentially related to the original post.
 
Top Bottom